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rigorousintuition.ca
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CouldBe
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 Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 4:13 am Post subject: Chemtrails Are Not Contrails |
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Anyone who has read about chemtrails on the internet cannot help but notice the utter confusion being spread about this topic. One thing I have noticed has been the deliberate mixing of two separate subjects, chemtrails and contrails.
Can anyone show proof that fake overcasts were being produced before the late 1990s from other than military aircraft? I don't think so.
Can anyone show that chemtrails have been portrayed as being a hoax? That can be done easily.
My main point is that chemtrails are not contrails. While commercial aviation pollution is a subject worth addressing, that is a topic which has nothing to do with chemtrails. |
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et in Arcadia ego
Joined: 02 Dec 2005
Posts: 3858
Location: The Void
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 4:26 am Post subject: |
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Please go read 'Aviation and the Global Climate'. Before you start having discussions about 'chemtrails' it would be better if you had some actual data behind you.
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"He checks out, by the way, to the best of my ability to check him out. Lives in GA, formerly lived in Miami, etc. " - Dream's End |
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CouldBe
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 6:37 am Post subject: |
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| et in Arcadia ego wrote: | | Please go read 'Aviation and the Global Climate'. Before you start having discussions about 'chemtrails' it would be better if you had some actual data behind you. |
I started this thread from another one concerning global warming. I was trying to comply with the rule against "threadjacking."
http://rigorousintuition.ca/board/viewtopic.php?t=15129&start=75
Thanks for the advice, Mr. Ego, but it is kind of late in the game, ten years too late. That is why I believe folks need to understand that chemtrails are not contrails. Can you show us some white-outs created by commercial aircraft? I doubt it.
I have looked at a lot of videos at you-tube. In the comments sections there are id's named Epoxynous and Jazzroc who keep saying that chemtrails are contrails. Are you supporting that idea? What is this 'Aviation and the Global Climate' you speak of? Who wrote that? Have you a link?
| skywatch wrote: | These are close ups of non commercial jets leaving thick white permanent trails across Cheshire, England June 5th-8th 2006.
These trails were on the warmest driest days....
Airliners at any altitude in the same skies leave no trails.
You decide. |
CHEMTRAIL JETS CLOSE UPS Our skies are dying... |
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FourthBase
Joined: 05 May 2005
Posts: 4433
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 6:47 am Post subject: |
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Aviation and the Global Atmosphere.
http://www.grida.no/climate/ipcc/aviation/index.htm
I'm confused by the problem here. Are you saying that commercial airplane exhaust trails don't form a hatched grid on a perfectly cloudless morning which then blends during the afternoon into a blanket of overcast? Because I have personally seen that in Boston many, many times over the last 5 years. Or is there a distinction between that and "chemtrails" that I'm missing? It seems like there are 3 types of trails being discussed:
1. normal dirty contrails
2. "normal" contrails laced with reflective particles to control warming
3. "chemtrails" laced with poisonous material/organisms to harm citizens
_________________
"Is there no other way the world may live?" - Dwight Eisenhower
http://www.rigorousintuition.ca/board/viewtopic.php?t=13979 |
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erosoplier
Joined: 28 Aug 2006
Posts: 1235
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 7:15 am Post subject: |
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If they are chemtrails in this video, why are they invisible close to the plane, and only turn white after reaching a certain distance away from the plane?
If they are contrails this is easily explainable - the engine vapour is very hot but is quickly cooled by the very cold atmosphere, and goes from invisible near the plane to visible away from the plane due to the time it takes to cool the vapour into ice crystals.
If it is a spray, why is it invisible near the plane? |
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CouldBe
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 8:35 am Post subject: |
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I didn't see any information there on chemtrails.
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I'm confused by the problem here. Are you saying that commercial airplane exhaust trails don't form a hatched grid on a perfectly cloudless morning which then blends during the afternoon into a blanket of overcast?
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yes, the fake overcasts aren't created by commercial aircraft.
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Because I have personally seen that in Boston many, many times over the last 5 years. Or is there a distinction between that and "chemtrails" that I'm missing?
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I think you are confusing ordinary, commercial aircraft with specially equipped ones using military jet fuel.
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It seems like there are 3 types of trails being discussed:
1. normal dirty contrails
2. "normal" contrails laced with reflective particles to control warming
3. "chemtrails" laced with poisonous material/organisms to harm citizens |
#1 appears to be regular contrails that fade and don't expand into the overcast.
#2 would not be from commercial aircraft. The Discovery Channel tested commercial jet fuel. It came out clean. The military refused to allow them to test their fuel.
I also don't believe the chemtrails are for fighting global warming. If anything, they seem to be for blocking out harmful radiation getting through due to holes in the ozone layer. Plans to geoengineer global warming are for the stratosphere, not the troposphere.
#3 is one theory I don't believe is true. |
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CouldBe
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 8:44 am Post subject: |
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| erosoplier wrote: |
If they are chemtrails in this video, why are they invisible close to the plane, and only turn white after reaching a certain distance away from the plane?
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They are not visible from the engines because they are coming directly out of the tails.
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If they are contrails this is easily explainable - the engine vapour is very hot but is quickly cooled by the very cold atmosphere, and goes from invisible near the plane to visible away from the plane due to the time it takes to cool the vapour into ice crystals.
If it is a spray, why is it invisible near the plane? |
From the few good close ups, one can see the chemtrails forming immediately from the tails and having nothing to do with normal contrail formation.
Plus, no one has ever shown commercial aircraft creating fake overcasts. Chemtrails have only become apparent since the late 1990s. When posters like Epoxynous use examples to show that chemtrails are contrails, they only have examples from military aircraft. You might want to look at Operation Popeye and environmental modification techniques. There is also a document called "Owning the Weather" you might want to check out.
I know it is very sad to realise that chemtrails are real, and that none of us have been consulted. But the truth always wins out eventually. |
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erosoplier
Joined: 28 Aug 2006
Posts: 1235
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 9:39 am Post subject: |
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| CouldBe wrote: |
They are not visible from the engines because they are coming directly out of the tails.
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Why are there four trails coming out of the planes that have four engines?
I thought you were going to say it had something to do with the fuel. Why the need for different fuel in military planes if the trails come out of the tails? |
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FourthBase
Joined: 05 May 2005
Posts: 4433
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 11:46 am Post subject: |
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| CouldBe wrote: |
I didn't see any information there on chemtrails.
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I'm confused by the problem here. Are you saying that commercial airplane exhaust trails don't form a hatched grid on a perfectly cloudless morning which then blends during the afternoon into a blanket of overcast?
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yes, the fake overcasts aren't created by commercial aircraft.
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Because I have personally seen that in Boston many, many times over the last 5 years. Or is there a distinction between that and "chemtrails" that I'm missing?
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I think you are confusing ordinary, commercial aircraft with specially equipped ones using military jet fuel. |
I'm not. Or at least I don't think I am.
The planes are typically very very high up, so they may be military.
I don't really know. All I know is what I've seen.
| Quote: | | Quote: |
It seems like there are 3 types of trails being discussed:
1. normal dirty contrails
2. "normal" contrails laced with reflective particles to control warming
3. "chemtrails" laced with poisonous material/organisms to harm citizens |
#1 appears to be regular contrails that fade and don't expand into the overcast.
#2 would not be from commercial aircraft. The Discovery Channel tested commercial jet fuel. It came out clean. The military refused to allow them to test their fuel.
I also don't believe the chemtrails are for fighting global warming. If anything, they seem to be for blocking out harmful radiation getting through due to holes in the ozone layer. Plans to geoengineer global warming are for the stratosphere, not the troposphere.
#3 is one theory I don't believe is true. |
#1 - Okay.
#2 - Interesting, but I don't consider the Discovery Channel as an authority. As for what the purpose of the artificial overcast is...have you not heard of global dimming? Did you not notice that among the methods proposed by US to combat global warming was the idea of pumping reflective dust into the atmosphere?
#3 - Neither do I.
_________________
"Is there no other way the world may live?" - Dwight Eisenhower
http://www.rigorousintuition.ca/board/viewtopic.php?t=13979 |
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chiggerbit
Joined: 10 May 2005
Posts: 7994
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Brighid_Moon
Joined: 15 Nov 2007
Posts: 227
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 12:47 pm Post subject: |
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This website is based where I live. I can personally vouch for a difference between contrails (regular airline pollution) and these chemtrails and their effects. Everything there that is said is true, I’ve been watching it for fifteen years. Recently, as of last late February, there was an abundance of chemtrails over the Lake County skies. Within three days the hospital was filled with choking, coughing people from infants to elderly, including myself. This coughing was not the flu. Within several weeks (6-10) the majority of my community had finally hacked themselves out, all but a handful of us, who are still suffering from this. Our weather here has gone from warm rain and green to dry winters, drought and dying landscape. Our oaks are withering, the land is brown. If what they’re saying in this website about chemtrails is bs, it’s strange that everything they’re talking about in it seems to validate my own personal observation of fifteen years.
| Quote: | NBC 4
3000 West Alameda Ave.
Burbank, CA 91523
Phone: (818) 840-4444
“Toxic Sky?”
"It's a quiet mountain community, but some residents claim something's happening in the sky that's making them sick."
"Mystery clouds and unusual contrails ... Is it a weather experiment on a massive scale?"
"In a Channel 4 News investigation, Paul Moyer looks into why some say the government is manipulating the weather."
(The video runs 4.30 minutes. For a transcript of the video commentary, see below.)
May 23, 2006: Here is perhaps the first real mainstream media coverage in the U.S.A on the subject of U.S. Senate Bill 517, U.S. House Bill 2995, and experimental weather modification programs that are currently ongoing in the United States.
On 23 May 2006 the NBC station in Los Angeles, KNBC broadcast a news item, reported and hosted by Paul Moyer, called "Toxic Sky" on the Jet Contrails in Los Angeles, and many counties in Northern California.
[…]
Up to this point in time the mainstream media has largely "ignored" the subject of the ongoing myriad of weather modification programs and experiments. Jets leaving persistent jet contrails that are modifying our weather, covering our skies in man-made clouds and white haze, exacerbating global warming, and polluting our environment with jet fuel emissions, have also been ignored by our elected officials and mainstream media. When atmospheric heating and testing programs are added to this mix of experiments, pollutants, and man-made clouds, the synergistic effects may be adversely impacting public health and having negative consequences on our natural resources.Note: Many of the sky pictures and video portions of this broadcast was filmed in Mendocino County, parts of Marin County and San Francisco. The video sky clips and pictures taken in Los Angeles look similar to the skies in Northern California, especially Mendocino County, CA.
AGRICULTURE ALERT – June 2, 2006
EXPERIMENTAL WEATHER MODIFICATION BILL FAST TRACKING FOR PASSAGE IN U.S. SENATE & HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
By Rosalind Peterson
U.S. Senate Bill 517 and U.S. House Bill 2995, a bill that would allow experimental weather modification by artificial methods and implement a national weather modification policy, does not include agriculture or public oversight, is on the “fast track” to be passed in 2006.
This bill is designed to implement experimental weather modification. The appointed Board of Directors established by this bill does not include any agricultural, water, EPA, or public representatives, and has no provisions for Congressional, State, County, or public oversight of their actions or expenditures. |
U.S. Senate Bill 517 and U.S. House Bill 2995 were left to rot, and turned over to the House Committee on Science and Technology. Reference now H.R. 3445: Weather Mitigation Research and Technology Transfer Authorization Act of 2007, (Status: Introduced).
| Quote: | To establish the Weather Mitigation Operations and Research Board, and for other purposes.
Weather Mitigation Research and Technology Transfer Authorization Act of 2007 - Establishes in the Department of Commerce the Weather Mitigation Advisory and Research Board to promote and fund research and development (R&D), studies, and investigations with respect to: (1) improved forecast and decisionmaking technologies for weather mitigation operations, including tailored computer workstations and software and new observation systems with remote sensors; and (2) assessments and evaluations of the efficacy of weather mitigation, both purposeful (including cloud-seeding operations) and inadvertent (including downwind effects and anthropogenic effects). |
Also reference S. 1807: Weather Mitigation Research and Development Policy Authorization Act of 2007, (Status: Introduced).
| Quote: | A bill to establish the Weather Mitigation Advisory and Research Board, and for other purposes.
Weather Mitigation Research and Development Policy Authorization Act of 2007 - Establishes in the National Science Foundation (NSF) the Weather Mitigation Advisory and Research Board to establish and coordinate the national research and development program on weather mitigation described in this Act. Requires the Executive Director of the Board to submit a plan for the establishment and coordination of the Program.
Requires the Board to promote and fund research and development (R&D), studies, and investigations with respect to: (1) improved forecast and decisionmaking technologies for weather mitigation operations, including tailored computer workstations and software and new observation systems with remote sensors; and (2) assessments and evaluations of the efficacy of weather mitigation.
Authorizes the Board to establish a grant program for the awarding of grants to eligible entities (state agencies, institutions of higher education, and nonprofits that have expertise in the field of weather mitigation and experience working with state agencies) for R&D projects that pertain to weather mitigation. Permits a grant recipient to only use the grant for a R&D project that: (1) pertains to weather mitigation; and (2) was in operation on the day before the grant was awarded.
Requires the submission of annual reports to the President and Congress on the activities conducted pursuant to this Act. |
Cloud Seeding: AI Weather Modification Page
Cloud Seeding Chemicals:
Carboxy-methylcellulose (salt) (inhaled)
| Quote: | | This can usually be found in cosmetics, and human inhalation and could cause chemical pneumonitis. |
Alginic acid (seaweed: Ammonium Alginate: Keltose) (can have allergic effect for those sensitive to seafood)
Cross-linked polyamino acids
Cross-linked modified polyacrylamides
Silver Iodide (silver nitrate + potassium iodide) (inhaled)
| Quote: | | Causes severe irritation of upper respiratory tract with coughing, burns, breathing difficulty, and possible coma. Causes chemical burns to the respiratory tract. Aspiration may lead to pulmonary edema. May cause systemic effects. |
Lead Iodide (inhaled)
| Quote: | | Lead salts are toxic if inhaled or swallowed. They are cumulative poisons - in other words, they are not readily eliminated from the body and tend to accumulate, eventually reaching a level at which they may do serious harm. Lead salts are neurological poisons, so may damage the central nervous system and brain. |
Aerosol (inhaled)
| Quote: | | 'The particles can cause respiratory diseases, as well as cardiovascular ones, as they enter the blood stream through breathing,' |
Aluminum Oxide (inhaled)
Microscopic or nano-particles inhaled
| Quote: | | Airborne nanoparticles are believed to have a role in the formation of lung and heart disease. |
Microscopic or nano-particles inhaled
| Quote: | | But studies have also shown that nanoparticles can act as poisons in the environment and accumulate in animal organs. And the first two studies of the health effects of engineered nanoparticles, published in January, have documented lung damage more severe and strangely different than that caused by conventional toxic dusts. |
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msalling22
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 2:36 pm Post subject: |
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I have approached this chemtrail thing with every bit of skepticism possible. I have talked to engineers--the kinds that would know about this sort of thing--and they are all stumped.
I saw it all over the states, my understanding is that it happens all over the world, I'm not sure which countries specifically.
I live in Asia now, and see them here every now and again.
I'm completely willing to be convinced that it's 100% bullshit.
What concerns me most is how easily people will simply assume they are normal, that this is just what jets do. "Those are just contrails..." or "it's weather-dependent..." Talk about tautology...
I've never heard a good explanation as to why it suddenly comes out of the tails, or why it dissipates like it does, or why it is done by planes that, if they weren't spraying something, by their pattern don't look to have any better reason to be in the air.
In short, I've never heard a good explanation for why no one who ought to be able to can explain it... |
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orz
Joined: 02 Oct 2005
Posts: 4036
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 2:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Anyone who has read about chemtrails on the internet cannot help but notice the utter confusion being spread about this topic. |
"Confusion" is way too polite a term to describe pretty much anything i've ever read on a chemtrail site.  |
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et in Arcadia ego
Joined: 02 Dec 2005
Posts: 3858
Location: The Void
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 3:02 pm Post subject: |
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| CouldBe wrote: | | et in Arcadia ego wrote: | | Please go read 'Aviation and the Global Climate'. Before you start having discussions about 'chemtrails' it would be better if you had some actual data behind you. |
I started this thread from another one concerning global warming. I was trying to comply with the rule against "threadjacking."
http://rigorousintuition.ca/board/viewtopic.php?t=15129&start=75
Thanks for the advice, Mr. Ego, but it is kind of late in the game, ten years too late. That is why I believe folks need to understand that chemtrails are not contrails. Can you show us some white-outs created by commercial aircraft? I doubt it. |
Actually, yes, I can. I don't waste my time arguing chemtrails here because there's too much to be misunderstood, especially by people that want to believe in some whacked out spraying program. FWIW I took over a thousand 'chemtrail' images and posted them online while I slowly learned what it was I was looking at, and it wasn't easy.
But I learned.
You wanna believe that they're more than persistent contrails in localized supersaturation areas of atmosphere you're welcome to believe whatever you want.
*shrugs*
_________________
"He checks out, by the way, to the best of my ability to check him out. Lives in GA, formerly lived in Miami, etc. " - Dream's End |
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et in Arcadia ego
Joined: 02 Dec 2005
Posts: 3858
Location: The Void
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 3:14 pm Post subject: |
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| CouldBe wrote: |
I didn't see any information there on chemtrails. |
That's because what you are calling chemtrails are referred to in that publication as persistent contrails. When you drop the nut-butter lingo and speak in terms relative to the science the mystery will evaporate.
Unless that's something you don't really want, for whatever reason..
_________________
"He checks out, by the way, to the best of my ability to check him out. Lives in GA, formerly lived in Miami, etc. " - Dream's End |
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