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Alfred Joe's Boy
Joined: 15 Jul 2008
Posts: 98
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 Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 12:00 am Post subject: Navy Prosecutor Admits Flight 93 Shot Down |
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REUTERS http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSN2230096620080723?sp=true
| Quote: | GUANTANAMO BAY U.S. NAVAL BASE, Cuba (Reuters) - Osama bin Laden's driver knew the target of the fourth hijacked jetliner in the September 11 attacks, a prosecutor said on Tuesday in an attempt to draw a link between Salim Hamdan and the al Qaeda leadership in the first Guantanamo war crimes trial.
Hamdan's lawyer said in opening statements that the Yemeni, held for nearly seven years before his trial, was just a paid employee of the fugitive al Qaeda leader, a driver in the motor pool who never joined the militant group or plotted attacks on America.
But prosecutor Timothy Stone told the six-member jury of U.S. military officers who will decide Hamdan's guilt or innocence that Hamdan had inside knowledge of the 2001 attacks on the United States because he overheard a conversation between bin Laden and his deputy, Ayman al-Zawahiri.
"If they hadn't shot down the fourth plane it would've hit the dome," Stone, a Navy officer, said in his opening remarks.
The tribunal's chief prosecutor, Col. Lawrence Morris, later explained that Stone was quoting Hamdan in evidence that will be presented at trial. Morris declined to say if the "dome" was a reference to the U.S. Capitol.
"Virtually no one knew the intended target, but the accused knew," Stone said.
United Airlines Flight 93 crashed in a field in rural Pennsylvania. U.S. officials have never stated it was shot down although rumors saying that abound to this day.
Hamdan, a father of two with a fourth-grade education, is charged with conspiracy and providing material support for terrorism in the first U.S. war crimes trial since World War Two. He could face life in prison if convicted.
Prosecutors say Hamdan had access to al Qaeda's inner circle. Stone told the jury that Hamdan earned the trust of bin Laden and helped him flee after attacks on U.S. embassies in East Africa in 1998 and the September 11 attacks.
"He served as bodyguard, driver, transported and delivered weapons, ammunition and supplies to al Qaeda," Stone said.
Hamdan was being tried in a hilltop courthouse at the U.S. Navy base in Guantanamo Bay, which has been a lightning rod for criticism of the United States since early 2002, when it began housing a prison camp to hold alleged Taliban and al Qaeda fighters from the battlefields of Afghanistan.
The war crimes tribunal system has been criticized by human rights groups and defense lawyers, some of them U.S. military officers. Detainees have been held for years without charges.
Washington has declared them unlawful enemy combatants not entitled to the rights afforded formal prisoners of war.
Responding to the widespread criticism, Morris, the chief prosecutor, said on Tuesday: "In my opinion they are seeing the most just war crimes trial that anyone has ever seen."
WORKED FOR WAGES
Defense lawyer Harry Schneider described Hamdan as a poor Yemeni who lost his parents at a young age and lived on the streets, where he developed a knack for fixing cars.
"The evidence is that he worked for wages. He didn't wage attacks on America," he said. "He had a job because he had to earn a living, not because he had a jihad against America."
"There will be no evidence that Mr. Hamdan espoused or believed or embraced any form of what you will hear about, radical Islam beliefs, extremist Muslim beliefs," he said.
The first two prosecution witnesses were U.S. military officers who were in Afghanistan during the early days of the U.S. invasion in 2001. Both addressed a key issue at trial -- whether Hamdan had surface-to-air missiles when he was captured at a checkpoint near Takhteh Pol in November 2001.
Defense lawyers dispute the prosecution's contention that Hamdan had the weapons. But a U.S. officer identified only as "Sergeant Major A" said the missiles were found in the "trunk of a car driven by Mr. Hamdan."
He said troops also found a mortar manual with "al Qaeda" on the front, a book by bin Laden and a card issued to al Qaeda fighters and signed by Mullah Omar, the Taliban commander.
Ali Soufan, an al Qaeda expert with the FBI, took the jury through a long description of al Qaeda's hierarchy and called bin Laden "the emir, the prince." He said Hamdan was part of bin Laden's security detail.
"The people who are around bin Laden have to be trusted ... true believers in the cause," he said. |
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barracuda
Joined: 06 Sep 2007
Posts: 5206
Location: Niles, California
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| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 12:16 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | The tribunal's chief prosecutor, Col. Lawrence Morris, later explained that Stone was quoting Hamdan in evidence that will be presented at trial. |
This sounds more like it, somehow. In other words, Hamdan thought the plane had been shot down.
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The most dangerous traps are the ones you set for yourself. - Phillip Marlowe |
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justdrew
Joined: 24 May 2005
Posts: 2749
Location: unknown
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| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 12:24 am Post subject: |
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Hamdan must be telling the truth about "knowing the forth target"
(god knows he couldn't possibly have just guessed as perhaps the fifth choice during various extreme questioning sessions. and then "ah ha! that corroborates with what our psychics are saying so it must be true! evidence!")
and yet Hamdan's lying about the plane being shot down... Since that doesn't cross-reference with official truth...
Still, how could he know if the plane was shot down or not? Hamdan is probably making that detail up. Too. (or they told him it was)
The whole trial is irreversibly contaminated with torture. |
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barracuda
Joined: 06 Sep 2007
Posts: 5206
Location: Niles, California
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| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 12:30 am Post subject: |
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Ummm, didn't everyone on the planet assume the Capitol building was the target of 93?
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The most dangerous traps are the ones you set for yourself. - Phillip Marlowe |
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KeenInsight
Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 335
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| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 12:54 am Post subject: |
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Ah, so that's how the official story will come to it's conclusion, apparently? How can this even be brought forth in a trial? How in the hell would this guy know about Flight 93 being shot down? What are they going to do, say a terrorist shot down the plane with hi-jacking terrorists already on board!?
A lie tortured out of an apparent "terrorist," as with many unlawfully held detainees at Guantanamo Bay. It's like deja vu after watching Rendition. It's almost painfully obvious how much they need confirmation that what they do there "works," and they'll snatch any poor soul who simply looks Middle Eastern, and torture them for a confession. Yeah, pretty convincing evidence they have, a damn Mortar Manual with "AL QUEDA" on the cover? Don't make me laugh. A book written by bin Laden (he's an author now too with a best selling Jihad paperback?) Seriously. WTF. |
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justdrew
Joined: 24 May 2005
Posts: 2749
Location: unknown
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| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 1:06 am Post subject: |
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| rarely was torture ever used to "learn the truth" - rather it's mostly always been used to force a confession. or to punish. |
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barracuda
Joined: 06 Sep 2007
Posts: 5206
Location: Niles, California
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| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 1:07 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Hamdan, a father of two with a fourth-grade education, |
So they had to torture this guy for seven years and he's still got the entire US intelligence community confused. Your tax dollars are hard at work here. KeenInsight, it appears that, yes, these fonebone trials will actually be used for political purposes. Unfortunately, we're going to have to listen to this crap for years, always from second- and third-hand sources, always through the filter of "state secrets" as the history of what happened is "leaked" out by the military from their base in another country. Just let the "terrorists" become cab drivers in Philidelphia, and call it a day, waddayasay?
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The most dangerous traps are the ones you set for yourself. - Phillip Marlowe |
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8bitagent
Joined: 24 Aug 2007
Posts: 6013
Location: california
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| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 1:22 am Post subject: |
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Wow...just wow...
| Quote: | | Hamdan, a father of two with a fourth-grade education, is charged with conspiracy and providing material support for terrorism in the first U.S. war crimes trial since World War Two. He could face life in prison if convicted. |
So it's come down to this. The US government's case is so broken and desperate, that all they have left is to try and pin 9/11 on some poor 4th grade educated Taxi Driver...and invoke fucking War Crimes?
Even if the 9/11 story were true instead of an insult to every living creature's intelligence, a Taxi driver overhearing the plot does not equal a war crime.
The US BOMBING MURDER OF THOUSANDS OF AFGHANIS DOES THO!
Btw, I want to know who selected the Twin Towers and Pentagon as the target, and who picked 9/11 as the date. I would bet the world is what not some extremist Muslim, that's for damn sure. I also have doubts "the Dome" was the target...if Flight 93 was even meant to hit anything.
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"We should not be here. I'm scared, this is creepy. You know what I mean? This could go very deep, Carol. This could be like, you know, like with the Warren commission, or something. I don't like it."-Woody Allen, Manhattan Murder Mystery(1993) |
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Spoonerian
Joined: 16 Nov 2006
Posts: 72
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 12:04 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | He said troops also found a mortar manual with "al Qaeda" on the front |
I really didn't know that we were supposed to assume that "they" or anybody actually refer to themselves as "al Qaeda". I thought it was conceded that "al Qaeda" was the name for their boogie-man that the U.S. military/spy agencies coined themselves using the name they had previously given to their database of their Islamic business associates.
Wouldn't this taxi driver having a book entitled "Al Qaeda" be like one of McCain's Vietnamese prison guards having a book entitled "Gooks"?
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"Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else." --Frederic Bastiat |
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nathan28
Joined: 01 Feb 2008
Posts: 1684
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 8:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Spoonerian wrote: | | Quote: | | He said troops also found a mortar manual with "al Qaeda" on the front |
I really didn't know that we were supposed to assume that "they" or anybody actually refer to themselves as "al Qaeda". I thought it was conceded that "al Qaeda" was the name for their boogie-man that the U.S. military/spy agencies coined themselves using the name they had previously given to their database of their Islamic business associates.
Wouldn't this taxi driver having a book entitled "Al Qaeda" be like one of McCain's Vietnamese prison guards having a book entitled "Gooks"? |
BWAAAGH!!!!
Jesus H.R. Fucking Christ! How little attention does anyone think we are paying? Fucking hell, I spend an absolutely marginal amount of time following the news and there are so many fucking inconsistencies in this story! It is like a detective show from hell! "Did you say his mortar manual had 'Al Qaeda' printed on it?"
"Yes, it did."
"Didn't you just admit that 'Al Qaeda' was your designation for the group, not theirs?"
"Yes"
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freemason9
Joined: 05 Sep 2007
Posts: 959
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 10:44 pm Post subject: |
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| barracuda wrote: | | Quote: | | Hamdan, a father of two with a fourth-grade education, |
So they had to torture this guy for seven years and he's still got the entire US intelligence community confused. Your tax dollars are hard at work here. |
I'm of the opinion that my tax dollars have been moonlighting as of late. |
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8bitagent
Joined: 24 Aug 2007
Posts: 6013
Location: california
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| Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 12:20 am Post subject: |
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| nathan28 wrote: | | Spoonerian wrote: | | Quote: | | He said troops also found a mortar manual with "al Qaeda" on the front |
I really didn't know that we were supposed to assume that "they" or anybody actually refer to themselves as "al Qaeda". I thought it was conceded that "al Qaeda" was the name for their boogie-man that the U.S. military/spy agencies coined themselves using the name they had previously given to their database of their Islamic business associates.
Wouldn't this taxi driver having a book entitled "Al Qaeda" be like one of McCain's Vietnamese prison guards having a book entitled "Gooks"? |
BWAAAGH!!!!
Jesus H.R. Fucking Christ! How little attention does anyone think we are paying? Fucking hell, I spend an absolutely marginal amount of time following the news and there are so many fucking inconsistencies in this story! It is like a detective show from hell! "Did you say his mortar manual had 'Al Qaeda' printed on it?"
"Yes, it did."
"Didn't you just admit that 'Al Qaeda' was your designation for the group, not theirs?"
"Yes"
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It's classic.
It's like Atta's rental car, and then his luggage that got mysteriously stuck in the conveyor belt and didnt make it on his Boston Logan plane.
What did it have?
A Quran, boxcutters, pilot outfit, flight similulator PC-Rom video game,
al Qaeda terror manual, list of the 19 hijackers, a will, etc.
Funny how during the Moussaoui trial they never trotted this magnificent find out as they did with all the other "evidence".
9/11 seems hopeless to expose for five reasons:
1. al Qaeda is convinced they did it, and their hubris doesnt allow them to realize they were merely a tool
2. FBI, CIA, police, media, etc are too weary and brow beaten to ever look back into money trails, people helping the hijackers, and other leads
3. Journalists who try to get to the nitty gritty end up like Daniel Pearl
4. Even the "anti Bush" liberals seem convinced of the official story
5. Too much focus on "CD! Fake Planes!" to ever get to the bottom of it
For now, the Hopsickers, Hicks, Hollands and others working to investigate the hijacker movements in America are silenced out
(see my recent 9/11-OKC connection thread for new developments on the hijackers in America)
_________________
"We should not be here. I'm scared, this is creepy. You know what I mean? This could go very deep, Carol. This could be like, you know, like with the Warren commission, or something. I don't like it."-Woody Allen, Manhattan Murder Mystery(1993) |
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