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MacCruiskeen
Joined: 16 Nov 2006
Posts: 3253
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 Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 6:47 am Post subject: 19 Deathloving Superstudents: A Racist Myth, Unquestioned. |
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In another thread, Alice wrote:
| Quote: | | Al Qaeda is the cover story. The misdirection. The smokescreen. Because even the tsunami of data about the fake 'hijackers' and their globe-trotting adventures yields exactly nothing, NOTHING that implicates them in the September 11 attacks. Nothing. |
Precisely. It's now seven (7) years since the attacks. There were allegedly nineteen (19) hijackers involved. That allegation has the force of a religious dogma, and God help anyone who ventures to question it in public: he or she will be shouted down, often with ferocious vehemence. People have lost their jobs for questioning it.
So how much do we actually know about the Nineteen Deathloving Superstudents? After all, they did not choose to live as recluses.
It certainly took very unusual people to do what they did, or what they are alleged to have done. Those "suicide-pilots" were nothing if not interesting: young, successful, educated, middle-class men with everything to live for, who yet chose to snuff out their own lives and those of nearly 3,000 others, with astounding violence, not caring that Muslim countries would undoubtedly be the first to suffer the consequences of their actions. They must have planned it with incredible skill. They must have been incredibly ruthless. They must have hidden that ruthlessness incredibly well. Last not least: they must have been incredibly brave, for not one of them chickened out.
And they did it all without even telling us why they did it.
So how come we still know next-to-nothing about them? Where are all the back-stories we would normally expect after such a famously horrifying massacre? Is the world no longer fascinated by True Crime? Isn't there a lucrative market out there, just waiting to be exploited by smart publishers? Have Americans suddenly lost all interest in making money?
"Hani Hanjour: The Making of a Madman"
"Ziad Jarrah: From 'Kind Guy' to Cool Killer"
"Satam al-Suqami: His Family Speaks Out"
Seven years on, none of these books exists. Why not?
"EXCLUSIVE! Mohammed Atta Remembered: In-Depth Interviews With Hamburg Students and Academics."
Not even short newspaper articles of this kind exist. Why not?
Why not?
The answer is surely obvious: There is no serious back-story to tell. Everyone who ever knew any of these alleged Ruthless Deathlovers is extremely puzzled by their alleged participation in this mass suicide-murder; and, as Alice said, nothing serious connects any of them to the crime, except their alleged presence on the planes. Nothing.
There is only one reason why this yarn could be swallowed so easily by so many people for so long: racism. Had the alleged hijackers all been freckly blond kids from Omaha or Oslo, you can bet your life some very serious questions would have been asked about their motivation - and some very serious evidence would have been demanded for their alleged culpability. Innocent until proven guilty, remember?
"Viva la Muerte? We'd rather have a cup of tea."
Luckily for everyone, though, the Nineteen Deathloving Superstudents were Arabs, so that was evidence enough. Capable of anything, that lot. Case closed. On this, the Cockburnite Left, the Cheneyite Right, the Nation, the Klan, the Socialist Workers, and the Liberals of the NYT and the Guardian could all agree, instantaneously, wholeheartedly, and with ferocious vehemence.
We should, finally, be asking ourselves why.
"Virgins... Death... Allah..."
_________________
"Work as if you lived in the early days of a better nation." (Alasdair Gray)
Last edited by MacCruiskeen on Thu Jun 19, 2008 7:34 am; edited 3 times in total |
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unaltered
Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Posts: 345
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| Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 7:23 am Post subject: |
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| Nobody could believe it was Ted Bundy either. It's a common thing when serial killers are unmasked. |
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MacCruiskeen
Joined: 16 Nov 2006
Posts: 3253
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| Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 7:52 am Post subject: |
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Ted Bundy was one man, not nineteen. Ted Bundy had a dreadful childhood in a broken home. Ted Bundy was a serial sex-criminal. Ted Bundy did not commit suicide. Ted Bundy lived to be 42. There was plentiful evidence against Ted Bundy. Ted Bundy admitted his crimes.
But it's no surprise to see you not questioning a racist myth lacking any serious evidence whatsoever to support it. Unworried, unenlightened, unaltered, seven years on.
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"Work as if you lived in the early days of a better nation." (Alasdair Gray) |
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8bitagent
Joined: 24 Aug 2007
Posts: 6013
Location: california
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| Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 7:57 am Post subject: |
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| unaltered wrote: | | Nobody could believe it was Ted Bundy either. It's a common thing when serial killers are unmasked. |
What happens when a serial killer is found to actually be working for deeper interests and unknown/known groups?
Also, serial killers means a person who habitually kills. Nothing indicates that these 19 merry men had any priors for murder.
_________________
"We should not be here. I'm scared, this is creepy. You know what I mean? This could go very deep, Carol. This could be like, you know, like with the Warren commission, or something. I don't like it."-Woody Allen, Manhattan Murder Mystery(1993) |
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unaltered
Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Posts: 345
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| Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 7:58 am Post subject: |
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| MacCruiskeen wrote: | Ted Bundy was one man. There was plentiful evidence against Ted Bundy. Ted Bundy admitted his crimes.
But it's no surprise to see you not questioning a racist myth lacking any serious evidence whatsoever to support it. Unworried, unenlightened, unaltered, seven years on. |
Well obviously I don't fall for the poofery that the same crowd who tried to destroy it the first time changed their stripes the second time. Nor your attempt to falsely label it racism. |
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MacCruiskeen
Joined: 16 Nov 2006
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8bitagent
Joined: 24 Aug 2007
Posts: 6013
Location: california
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| Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 8:09 am Post subject: Re: 19 Deathloving Superstudents: A Racist Myth, Unquestione |
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| MacCruiskeen wrote: |
Luckily for everyone, though, the Nineteen Deathloving Superstudents were Arabs, so that was evidence enough. Capable of anything, that lot. Case closed. On this, the Cockburnite Left, the Cheneyite Right, the Nation, the Klan, the Socialist Workers, and the Liberals of the NYT and the Guardian could all agree, instantaneously, wholeheartedly, and with ferocious vehemence.
We should, finally, be asking ourselves why. |
Or perhaps, we should be asking ourselves not "was al Qaeda and the 19 hijackers involved", but "who do they connect to, and what was fueling them?" "Who was really controlling the hijackers?"
Macruisian, I've read plenty of 2001-2003 news articles that got buried down the memory hole, but show what the hijackers were up to..often involving coke parties, hookers, and generally creating a loud scene.
They were seen at houses where black limos with Saudi officials would come and go. They were houses with FBI informants, Saudi intelligence officials, agent provocatuers.
They were seen meeting with Saudi officials in a hotel the day before 9/11. They were meeting with German drug smugglers.
They were seen at Dulles and Boston Logan with other operatives dressed in tarmac crew and airport outfits.
They had unknown men in their hotel rooms as they allegedly were boarding the planes(according to housekeepers at the hotels)
Their credit cards they used continued to be in use even up to two weeks later, used to purchase other rooms. Same thing happened with the WTC 1993 plot credit cards.
The hijackers were also being housed by the owners of the Sun Times, who went to Huffman flight school, and who ended up getting anthraxed.
The hijackers even were hanging out with Moussaoui, Nick Berg, Oklahoma City bombing operatives, etc on the campus of OKU in Norman OKC.
There's PLENTY we do know, and it conflicts with the official story.
Why don't more "the 19 hijackers have no connection to 9/11" position people take a look at cooperativeresearch.org?
Now then....
The reason that believing the official "Arab Muslims orchestrated 9/11" is racist I'd argue, is because it then supports the murder and maiming of tens of thousands of innocent Afghani and Iraqis since 2001 by US bombings.
People have accused me of being racist when I sarcastically say that it's ignorant to believe 19 men and a bearded man in a cave pulled off 9/11. Yet to them I say its more racist to support the US war in Afghanistan and Iraq.
_________________
"We should not be here. I'm scared, this is creepy. You know what I mean? This could go very deep, Carol. This could be like, you know, like with the Warren commission, or something. I don't like it."-Woody Allen, Manhattan Murder Mystery(1993) |
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8bitagent
Joined: 24 Aug 2007
Posts: 6013
Location: california
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| Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 8:12 am Post subject: |
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| unaltered wrote: | | MacCruiskeen wrote: | Ted Bundy was one man. There was plentiful evidence against Ted Bundy. Ted Bundy admitted his crimes.
But it's no surprise to see you not questioning a racist myth lacking any serious evidence whatsoever to support it. Unworried, unenlightened, unaltered, seven years on. |
Well obviously I don't fall for the poofery that the same crowd who tried to destroy it the first time changed their stripes the second time. Nor your attempt to falsely label it racism. |
You realize that the first world trade center bombing in 1993 was an FBI sting operation "gone wrong", right? I can give you all the court documents, FBI provocatuer/informant names, and exhaustive evidence of that.
You really think mumbling idiots like Ramzi Yousef, and Khalid Mohamed are truly coming up with these ideas? Ever heard of Ali Mohamed?
The Rabbi Maher Khahne murder in 1991?
_________________
"We should not be here. I'm scared, this is creepy. You know what I mean? This could go very deep, Carol. This could be like, you know, like with the Warren commission, or something. I don't like it."-Woody Allen, Manhattan Murder Mystery(1993) |
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unaltered
Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Posts: 345
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| Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 9:13 am Post subject: |
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| 8bitagent wrote: | | unaltered wrote: | | MacCruiskeen wrote: | Ted Bundy was one man. There was plentiful evidence against Ted Bundy. Ted Bundy admitted his crimes.
But it's no surprise to see you not questioning a racist myth lacking any serious evidence whatsoever to support it. Unworried, unenlightened, unaltered, seven years on. |
Well obviously I don't fall for the poofery that the same crowd who tried to destroy it the first time changed their stripes the second time. Nor your attempt to falsely label it racism. |
You realize that the first world trade center bombing in 1993 was an FBI sting operation "gone wrong", right? I can give you all the court documents, FBI provocatuer/informant names, and exhaustive evidence of that.
You really think mumbling idiots like Ramzi Yousef, and Khalid Mohamed are truly coming up with these ideas? Ever heard of Ali Mohamed?
The Rabbi Maher Khahne murder in 1991? |
The efforts to whitewash the deeds of Muslim extremists serves some kind of agenda which has little to do with finding truth no matter WHO may have "orchestrated," things. The extremists are real, they are doing and have been doing nasty stuff. If they are doing it in conjunction with "others," fine, but their hand is among the perps and no one should try and deny it. No one is making up their desire to do harm to anyone they want to from Rushdie to the flavor of the day "infidel." And while you are right that it is wrong to use it to broadstroke all Muslims it is also wrong to try and sweep it under the rug in service of something else. |
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Searcher08
Joined: 20 Dec 2007
Posts: 1686
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| Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 9:53 am Post subject: |
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| unaltered wrote: | | 8bitagent wrote: | | unaltered wrote: | | MacCruiskeen wrote: | Ted Bundy was one man. There was plentiful evidence against Ted Bundy. Ted Bundy admitted his crimes.
But it's no surprise to see you not questioning a racist myth lacking any serious evidence whatsoever to support it. Unworried, unenlightened, unaltered, seven years on. |
Well obviously I don't fall for the poofery that the same crowd who tried to destroy it the first time changed their stripes the second time. Nor your attempt to falsely label it racism. |
You realize that the first world trade center bombing in 1993 was an FBI sting operation "gone wrong", right? I can give you all the court documents, FBI provocatuer/informant names, and exhaustive evidence of that.
You really think mumbling idiots like Ramzi Yousef, and Khalid Mohamed are truly coming up with these ideas? Ever heard of Ali Mohamed?
The Rabbi Maher Khahne murder in 1991? |
The efforts to whitewash the deeds of Muslim extremists serves some kind of agenda which has little to do with finding truth no matter WHO may have "orchestrated," things. The extremists are real, they are doing and have been doing nasty stuff. If they are doing it in conjunction with "others," fine, but their hand is among the perps and no one should try and deny it. No one is making up their desire to do harm to anyone they want to from Rushdie to the flavor of the day "infidel." And while you are right that it is wrong to use it to broadstroke all Muslims it is also wrong to try and sweep it under the rug in service of something else. |
What role if any do you think Israel (or Israeli citizens) had around the September 11th event? None? Aware of operations? perp? observer? none of the above? |
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nathan28
Joined: 01 Feb 2008
Posts: 1684
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| Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 9:58 am Post subject: |
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| unaltered wrote: | | 8bitagent wrote: | | unaltered wrote: | | MacCruiskeen wrote: | Ted Bundy was one man. There was plentiful evidence against Ted Bundy. Ted Bundy admitted his crimes.
But it's no surprise to see you not questioning a racist myth lacking any serious evidence whatsoever to support it. Unworried, unenlightened, unaltered, seven years on. |
Well obviously I don't fall for the poofery that the same crowd who tried to destroy it the first time changed their stripes the second time. Nor your attempt to falsely label it racism. |
You realize that the first world trade center bombing in 1993 was an FBI sting operation "gone wrong", right? I can give you all the court documents, FBI provocatuer/informant names, and exhaustive evidence of that.
You really think mumbling idiots like Ramzi Yousef, and Khalid Mohamed are truly coming up with these ideas? Ever heard of Ali Mohamed?
The Rabbi Maher Khahne murder in 1991? |
The efforts to whitewash the deeds of Muslim extremists serves some kind of agenda which has little to do with finding truth no matter WHO may have "orchestrated," things. The extremists are real, they are doing and have been doing nasty stuff. If they are doing it in conjunction with "others," fine, but their hand is among the perps and no one should try and deny it. No one is making up their desire to do harm to anyone they want to from Rushdie to the flavor of the day "infidel." And while you are right that it is wrong to use it to broadstroke all Muslims it is also wrong to try and sweep it under the rug in service of something else. |
It's not like they can't be both Muslim extremists and stooges at the same time. Think of it as a two-for-one deal, I'm sure that's what we thought back in the '80s when we were spreading militant islam: you get armed insurgents who are also ideological anti-Communists. [edit] Likewise, it's not helpful to speculate in the vein of "How could they?"
I tend not be believe that it's as simply as that, but I don't believe it's important. I definitely don't buy the "box cutter" story. But would you be spreading class hatred to call Christian abortion clinic bombers "extremists"? Of course not. |
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stefano
Joined: 21 Apr 2008
Posts: 716
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| Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 10:56 am Post subject: |
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| Nathan28 wrote: | | It's not like they can't be both Muslim extremists and stooges at the same time. |
Exactly. Or for alternating periods, or primarily then one, then the other, depending on what serves their interests bests on any given day.
8bit - you have interesting things to say about all of this but you often say something like 'Al Qaida couldn't blow up a lemonade stand without help'. You are completely wrong. What do you think goes on at those training camps? These guys spend years in some of the most inhospitable terrain in the world, and their only mission is jihad. They definitely don't need the CIA to cause mayhem. Although when the spooks show up with money and weapons they gladly accept. That doesn't make it some kind of everlasting allegiance or relation of dependency though, as you should know from what you've read about Afghanistan. |
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AlicetheKurious
Joined: 30 Nov 2006
Posts: 3030
Location: Egypt
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| Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 11:11 am Post subject: |
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8bitagent, you're killing me. I've asked you so many times, in so many ways, to provide one shred of evidence that there were ANY hijackers on those planes.
If you have, I must have missed it.
You keep insisting, over and over, that 'al Qaeda' committed the September 11 attacks ('on behalf of' whoever).
I keep asking, over and over, if you have any credible basis for that belief that you'd care to share. Repetitive declarations that 'al Qaeda' did 9/11 don't cut it. I ain't Catholic, and even if I were, you ain't the pope.
I'm still waiting.
It can't be that you're too lazy -- on the contrary, you strike me as prodigiously energetic (nearly 2600 posts in less than a year? There should be some kind of award).
C'mon, 8bitagent, you can do it. Someone as absolutely, indubitably positive as you are, as deeply interested as you are, should be able to provide ONE piece of credible evidence proving the culpable involvement of any of the 19 'hijackers', or 'al Qaeda', for the attacks on September 11.
Ideally, your case would be at least nearly as strong as the one I outlined earlier, that points to a group of wild-eyed Likudnik zealots and other Israeli agents with the incontrovertible means, motive and opportunity to carry out and cover up the plot. Not to mention who personally benefited wildly from those same attacks.
But I'm not greedy, I'll settle for one bit of credible evidence incriminating 'al Qaeda' for the planning and/or execution of the attacks.
Please? Pretty please?
unaltered said:
| Quote: | | The extremists are real, they are doing and have been doing nasty stuff. If they are doing it in conjunction with "others," fine, but their hand is among the perps and no one should try and deny it. |
Well, yes. Just like the late Saddam Hussein was real, and had done some nasty things. But he did not plan, nor did he commit, the September 11th attacks.
Sharon (not quite late yet), was (is?) also a very nasty creep, plus there's a lot more evidence to him being at the center of the 9/11 spider web, yet you seem quite comfortable denying it.
Maybe you mean "no one should try and deny" baseless allegations from hasbara central? "No one should try and deny" that the emperor's clothes reflect his excellent taste, his immense wealth, and his wisdom in choosing wonderfully-skilled tailors?
Is that what you mean?
nathan28 said:
| Quote: | | ...would you be spreading class hatred to call Christian abortion clinic bombers "extremists"? Of course not. |
Actually, you would, if they didn't do it, and if your claim that they did, is mostly based on the fact that they are Christian, plus you justify your subsequent persecution, slaughter and dispossession of millions and millions of Christians on the basis of your spurious accusation.
_________________
You know. Don't say you don't know.
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MacCruiskeen
Joined: 16 Nov 2006
Posts: 3253
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| Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 11:12 am Post subject: |
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Can we get this back on-track? I was making some very specific points about a) the mainstream media; b) the entire spectrum of respectable political thought, including "the left" and liberals, since 9/11; c) the nineteen specific, named individuals alleged to have committed the crime.
Few would deny that 9/11 was the Crime of the Century (so far). Yet no-one is the least bit interested in the alleged suicide-hijackers who allegedly committed that crime. No one wants to know what turned them into monsters. Their names are known, or so we're told. They come from countries that are open to visitors and friendly to the West. Yet no one goes to interview their families, friends, schoolmates or colleagues. No one asks: What made them tick? Why did they suddenly become so terrifyingly radical? What made them so utterly ruthless - and so fearless?
You would think that all this might be of some interest to the omnipresent media-machine, but no. Hardly anyone could name even one of these Criminals of the Century off-hand (except, of course, for the snappily-named Atta, the Leader of the Pack). Not a single interesting fact about any of the Nineteen has turned up since their deaths. Not one person -- no wily investigative reporter, no money-grubbing hack, no greedy producer or publisher -- has unearthed anything remotely interesting about any of them. No one has even tried to do so.
No publisher is publishing those books.
No newspaper is printing those articles.
No writer is writing them.
And the TV, too, is silent.
The guilt of the Nineteen Deathloving Superstudents is just a given, their motivation a Sacred Mystery. And anyone who even doubts their responsibility openly is vilified, laughed at, or at best ignored.
It only works for one reason: racism. It works because they're Arabs: a dark, frightening, fungible, essentially faceless mass, of which anything is believable. A Semitic mass, to be precise. And of course we have been here before:
| Quote: | Joyce Carol Oates:
Accounts of true crime have always been enormously popular among readers. The subgenre would seem to appeal to the highly educated as well as the barely educated, to women and men equally. The most famous chronicler of true crime trials in English history is the amateur criminologist William Roughead, a Scots lawyer who between 1889 and 1949 attended every murder trial of significance held in the High Court of Justiciary in Edinburgh, and wrote of them in essays published first in such journals as The Juridical Review and subsequently collected in best-selling books with such titles as Malice Domestic, The Evil That Men Do, What Is Your Verdict?, In Queer Street, Rogues Walk Here, Knave's Looking Glass, Mainly Murder, Murder and More Murder, Nothing But Murder, and many more…. Roughead's influence was enormous, and since his time "true crime" has become a crowded, flourishing field, though few writers of distinction have been drawn to it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/True_crime |
But some True Crimes are not to be touched with a bargepole, even when it means missing out on money. It would be a rash newspaper editor who even tried.
PS (to 8bitagent and others): Yes, I know about Hopsicker; he's the exception that proves the rule. There have a been a couple of other exceptions, most notably Paul Thompson, but the point is that these writers are essentially restricted to the "lunatic fringe" of the net. They are beyond the pale. They are Masters of their Domain, a playpen. And almost everything these writers have discovered casts enormous doubt on the racist yarn, the travesty of justice everyone else has agreed on.
That's why no one else is following their lead. Careers in journalism do not grow on trees.
_________________
"Work as if you lived in the early days of a better nation." (Alasdair Gray) |
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nomo
Joined: 26 Jul 2005
Posts: 3308
Location: New York City
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| Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 11:30 am Post subject: |
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| The Jews did it. |
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