What constitutes Misogyny?

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Re: What constitutes Misogyny?

Postby Project Willow » Tue Mar 22, 2011 6:37 pm

For Norton...

The BITCH Manifesto
Jo freeman, 1972

http://www.cwluherstory.com/the-bitch-manifesto.html

BITCH is an organization which does not yet exist. The name is not an acronym. It stands for exactly what it sounds like.

BITCH is composed of Bitches. There are many definitions of a bitch. The most complimentary definition is a female dog. Those definitions of bitches who are also homo sapiens are rarely as objective. They vary from person to person and depend strongly on how much of a bitch the definer considers herself. However, everyone agrees that a bitch is always a female, dog, or otherwise.

It is also generally agreed that a Bitch is aggressive, and therefore unfeminine (ahem). She may be sexy, in which case she becomes a Bitch Goddess, a special case which will not concern us here. But she is never a "true woman."

Bitches have some or all of the following characteristics.

1. Personality. Bitches are aggressive, assertive, domineering, overbearing, strong-minded, spiteful, hostile, direct, blunt, candid, obnoxious, thick-skinned, hard-headed, vicious, dogmatic, competent, competitive, pushy, loud-mouthed, independent, stubborn, demanding, manipulative, egoistic, driven, achieving, overwhelming, threatening, scary, ambitious, tough, brassy, masculine, boisterous, and turbulent. Among other things. A Bitch occupies a lot of psychological space. You always know she is around. A Bitch takes shit from no one. You may not like her, but you cannot ignore her.
2. Physical. Bitches are big, tall, strong, large, loud, brash, harsh, awkward, clumsy, sprawling, strident, ugly. Bitches move their bodies freely rather than restrain, refine and confine their motions in the proper feminine manner. They clomp up stairs, stride when they walk and don't worry about where they put their legs when they sit. They have loud voices and often use them. Bitches are not pretty.

3. Orientation. Bitches seek their identity strictly thru themselves and what they do. They are subjects, not objects. They may have a relationship with a person or organization, but they never marry anyone or anything; man, mansion, or movement. Thus Bitches prefer to plan their own lives rather than live from day to day, action to action, or person to person. They are independent cusses and believe they are capable of doing anything they damn well want to. If something gets in their way; well, that's why they become Bitches. If they are professionally inclined, they will seek careers and have no fear of competing with anyone. If not professionally inclined, they still seek self-expression and self-actualization. Whatever they do, they want an active role and are frequently perceived as domineering. Often they do dominate other people when roles are not available to them which more creatively sublimate their energies and utilize their capabilities. More often they are accused of domineering when doing what would be considered natural by a man.

A true Bitch is self-determined, but the term "bitch" is usually applied with less discrimination. It is a popular derogation to put down uppity women that was created by man and adopted by women. Like the term "nigger," "bitch" serves the social function of isolating and discrediting a class of people who do not conform to the socially accepted patterns of behavior.

..............

When she meets the hard brick wall of sex prejudice she is not compliant. She will knock herself out batting her head against the wall because she will not accept her defined role as an auxiliary. Occasionally she crashes her way thru. Or she uses her ingenuity to find a loophole, or creates one. Or she is ten times better than anyone else competing with her. She also accepts less than her due. Like other women her ambitions have often been dulled for she has not totally escaped the badge of inferiority placed upon the "weaker sex." She will often espouse contentment with being the power behind the throne -provided that she does have real power -while rationalizing that she really does not want the recognition that comes with also having the throne. Because she has been put down most of her life, both for being a woman and for not being a true woman, a Bitch will not always recognize that what she has achieved is not attainable by the typical woman. A highly competent Bitch often deprecates herself by refusing to recognize her own superiority. She is wont to say that she is average or less so; if she can do it, anyone can.

.................

As adults, Bitches may have learned the feminine role, at least the outward style but they are rarely comfortable in it. This is particularly true of those women who are physical Bitches. They want to free their bodies as well as their minds and deplore the effort they must waste confining their physical motions or dressing the role in order not to turn people off. Too, because they violate sex role expectations physically, they are not as free to violate them psychologically or intellectually. A few deviations from the norm can be tolerated but too many are too threatening. It's bad enough not to think like a woman, sound like a woman or do the kinds of things women are supposed to do. To also not look like a woman, move like a woman or act like a woman is to go way beyond the pale. Ours is a rigid society with narrow limits placed on the extent of human diversity. Women in particular are defined by their physical characteristics. Bitches who do not violate these limits are freer to violate others. Bitches who do violate them in style or size can be somewhat envious of those who do not have to so severely restrain the expansiveness of their personalities and behavior. Often these Bitches are tortured more because their deviancy is always evident .But they do have a compensation in that large Bitches have a good deal less difficulty being taken seriously than small women. One of the sources of their suffering as women is also a source of their strength.
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Re: What constitutes Misogyny?

Postby hava1 » Wed Mar 23, 2011 2:06 am

I see now that you see the word Bitch as derogative genderwise. So can you be kind to the "natives" and write a brief dictionary of PC words to describe a really disgusting power hungy and ruthless woman ? I will gladly make a "erase and replace" to all my former statements. When you think of those terms, place Sarah Palin as reference. (or, condi rice etc.)
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Re: What constitutes Misogyny?

Postby Project Willow » Wed Mar 23, 2011 3:22 am

JackRiddler wrote:
Project Willow wrote:Attributed quotes that speak for me...

Simone de Beauvoir wrote:The most sympathetic of men never fully comprehend woman's concreted situation.


Much as I want to say,

hey, what about meee?! I try so hard! (sometimes)

I know from experience to also be the case with me. At the same time, the reverse is not nearly as true. Even unsympathetic women comprehend men's situations as a rule far more easily (and on average, with reasonable caveats, etc.) than vice-versa.


I hear you and I have many thoughts on this issue, but what hinders me now in responding in full is being able to cite a source or sources for this theory, that I know well from reading in numerous texts almost 30 years ago now but cannot find, or actually can't commit the time to find at this point, much as I might want to. The point is made in the analysis of various instances of oppression, not just patriarchy, that the oppressor, or rather those who act as part of a system of oppression, are necessarily blind to some of the workings of those whom they oppress, otherwise an awareness might trigger empathy and therefore create a crisis and challenge to the system. Alternately, those who are oppressed make a considered study of their oppressors in order to be self protective.

I want to say I also empathize with you Jack, even though this may be an imperfect analog, as there has been little else more mournful to me, however much I cringe to think what I say here might be considered a form of pity and so not very respectful, to witness the effect of internalized racism on an individual. I mean, it's mournful enough to witness what the media does with race, what civil and private structures do with race, what race hating groups and individuals do with race, but to witness first hand the resulting cumulative effects on a single human being, where all that judgment lands with an immutable weight, and makes its devilish way into the psyche and impacts upon one's self reflection, ...oh, it would take uncanny powers of self control to avoid hating oneself in certain unconscious ways. To behold this process manifest in someone is to experience a time of pure grief. And there's no comfort to be given, that I know of, except to tell one's self, at least I witnessed it and mourned.

So I understand many of the defenses of men who would rather look away and deny, because both positions are painful, that of the oppressed and that of the oppressor, or rather, of actors in a system that accrues more benefits to them and less to others. But now I've got myself in an awkward place to conclude my thoughts, because what I want to say in sum and simply, to paraphrase some punk rock or ska lyrics, is, whether women or any "other", it doesn't make it alright. It just doesn't make it alright.
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Re: What constitutes Misogyny?

Postby hava1 » Wed Mar 23, 2011 8:09 am

Reclaiming derogatory terms
Words such as spinster, bitch, whore, and cunt continue to be used in derogatory ways about women. Inga Muscio writes, "I posit that we’re free to seize a word that was kidnapped and co-opted in a pain-filled, distant, past, with a ransom that cost our grandmothers’ freedom, children, traditions, pride, and land." Third-wave feminists believe it is better to change the connotation of a sexist word than to censor it from speech.
Part of taking back the word bitch was fueled by the 1992 single, "All Women Are Bitches" by the all woman band Fifth Column and, later, by the 1999 book Bitch: In Praise of Difficult Women by Elizabeth Wurtzel. In the successful declaration of the word bitch, Wurtzel introduces her philosophy: "I intend to scream, shout, race the engine, call when I feel like it, throw tantrums in Bloomingdale's if I feel like it and confess intimate details about my life to complete strangers. I intend to do what I want to do and be whom I want to be and answer only to myself: that is, quite simply, the bitch philosophy." [19]


was that oneupsmanship back on the psych thread ?

Hey, PW, that was not very nice to shame me as "using bad language", when in fact, I am more uptodate , intuitively, on that issue, than your comment to me. try to be a bit more collegial, in the spirit of feminism..
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Re: What constitutes Misogyny?

Postby wintler2 » Wed Mar 23, 2011 8:11 am

Image
Other placards: Ditch the witch, & Dump the frump.

Context: demo in Canberra against proposed carbon tax, Prime Minister Julia Guillard is in minority govt with Independants & Greens led by Bob Brown. Many journo's commented on how old the protesters were. I found it interesting the placards didn't mention Bobs homosexuality - the PM can be called a frump, a bitch (as in slave, to my reading) and a witch, but another hated (by the Right) party leader was let alone.. mysterious, or misogyny?
"Wintler2, you are a disgusting example of a human being, the worst kind in existence on God's Earth. This is not just my personal judgement.." BenD

Research question: are all god botherers authoritarians?
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Re: What constitutes Misogyny?

Postby brekin » Wed Mar 23, 2011 10:59 am

.
I started this book a bit ago but haven't finished it. Really articulate
look at a life crossing the gender line.

She's Not There: A Life in Two Genders

http://www.amazon.com/Shes-Not-There-Li ... 106&sr=8-5

From Booklist
Boylan, English professor and author of the critically acclaimed novels The Constellations (1994), The Planets (1991), and Getting In (1998), began life as a male named James Boylan. In this autobiography, she details her lifelong struggle with her burgeoning femaleness and the path she followed to become a female, both physically and mentally. For 40 years, the author lived as a man, seemingly happy and even marrying a woman and fathering two children. At a certain point, though, she realized that she couldn't suppress her desire to live as a female and so eventually went through all the steps to become female, including sexual reassignment surgery. There is something troubling about Boylan's lighthearted tone, and while she hints at it, there is no really clear depiction of the havoc this transition must have wreaked on her married life (Boylan's wife was clearly devastated) and on her children (who at times refer to her as boygirl or maddy). But Boylan's well-written and informative book is a worthy contribution to the body of work on this subject. Kathleen Hughes
Copyright © American Library Association. All rights reserved --This text refers to an out of print or unavailable edition of this title.
Review
"Beautifully crafted, fearless, painfully honest, inspiring and extremely witty. Jennifer Finney Boylan is an exquisite writer with a fascinating story and this combination has resulted in one of the most remarkable, moving and unforgettable memoirs in recent history."
---Augusten Burroughs, author of Running With Scissors

"In addition to being a complete delight, this book should make us all question what we mean when we use the words love, marriage, and friendship. Jennifer Finney Boylan is a great gift to womanhood."
--Haven Kimmel, author of A Girl Named Zippy


Here's an interview that I haven't got all the way through yet:

http://www.themorningnews.org/archives/ ... boylan.php
If I knew all mysteries and all knowledge, and have not charity, I am nothing. St. Paul
I hang onto my prejudices, they are the testicles of my mind. Eric Hoffer
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Re: What constitutes Misogyny?

Postby Project Willow » Wed Mar 23, 2011 4:27 pm

hava1 wrote:was that oneupsmanship back on the psych thread ?

Hey, PW, that was not very nice to shame me as "using bad language", when in fact, I am more uptodate , intuitively, on that issue, than your comment to me. try to be a bit more collegial, in the spirit of feminism..


Are you being funny, or are you upset with me? We haven't really reclaimed the term over here, manifesto or no, "bitch" is still derogatory in common usage, as far as I know. Perhaps I'm out of touch. I have my own opinions on the strategy of oppressed groups reclaiming derogatory terms for their own usage. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

Come to think of it someone called me a bitch once a few years ago and I was very offended. Then the person who'd used the word was offended that I was offended and attempted to claim he used it as a term of endearment in that context. I believe that kind of usage was in trend at that time. Whatever, I did not like it, maybe that's just me.

What say you other RI females, do you think getting called a bitch is hip and cool and all OK now?
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Re: What constitutes Misogyny?

Postby Pele'sDaughter » Wed Mar 23, 2011 5:04 pm

I haven't been called one lately, but I'm very hard to offend. Whatever comes out of someone else's mouth is their problem, not mine. I can't take it personally unless I actually think whatever is said fits me. Otherwise, it's just someone talking out of their arse. Admittedly, I'm strange.
Don't believe anything they say.
And at the same time,
Don't believe that they say anything without a reason.
---Immanuel Kant
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Re: What constitutes Misogyny?

Postby compared2what? » Wed Mar 23, 2011 5:28 pm

Project Willow wrote:
hava1 wrote:was that oneupsmanship back on the psych thread ?

Hey, PW, that was not very nice to shame me as "using bad language", when in fact, I am more uptodate , intuitively, on that issue, than your comment to me. try to be a bit more collegial, in the spirit of feminism..


Are you being funny, or are you upset with me? We haven't really reclaimed the term over here, manifesto or no, "bitch" is still derogatory in common usage, as far as I know. Perhaps I'm out of touch. I have my own opinions on the strategy of oppressed groups reclaiming derogatory terms for their own usage. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

Come to think of it someone called me a bitch once a few years ago and I was very offended. Then the person who'd used the word was offended that I was offended and attempted to claim he used it as a term of endearment in that context. I believe that kind of usage was in trend at that time. Whatever, I did not like it, maybe that's just me.

What say you other RI females, do you think getting called a bitch is hip and cool and all OK now?


If a drag queen calls you "a fierce bitch" or words to that effect: Yes.

I'd also say it's okay among/between friends and family ("Quit being such a bitch, Cousin Euphemia can't help it if she's smelly"; "That's because his mother is a world-class BITCH"; etc) for behind-that-bitch's-back purposes, assuming that it generally comports with their customary argot and usage, although "biotch" does the same job better, imo, due to its more frequently affectionate connotations.

To call a woman (or a man) a bitch to his or her face and really mean it is definitely derogatory, antagonistic and....Well. It should be offensive. But in practice, it's such a routine thing to call a non-complying woman, I have to admit that I think of it as more of an indication of sociocultural normality on the speaker's part than I do as a sign of exceptional hostility toward women.

To call a woman a cunt (in the United States) and really mean it, whether behind her back or to her face, is (almost) always derogatory, antagonistic and misogynist, imo.

But it's difficult to speak to such a point with universal and unqualified authority, you know what I mean? Because context is nine-tenths of the law, at least theoretically.

Personally, I find the crypto-insult words that suggest sexual maladjustment more irritating: "uptight," "hysterical," "drama queen," and so on. I'm not really sure why. Maybe it's that they implicitly take the power dynamic for granted that words like "bitch" or "cunt" merely (oh my god, I can't believe that I just typed "merely") seek to enforce? I honestly don't know.

It could just be me, I guess.
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Re: What constitutes Misogyny?

Postby WakeUpAndLive » Wed Mar 23, 2011 6:09 pm

I find our attachment to words slightly comedic. It is a configuration of made up ideas that we have condensed into sounds produced by our vocal boxes. It is only the importance WE put on such sounds that define whether we decide to make it negative or positive. When people stop being affected by a word it usually becomes quite useless as a tool against them.


*edit*

I also would like to expand on this a little bit because I feel some might take it the wrong way. I do not feel the desensitization towards the use of a word is what I'm referring to. I just feel if we stopped putting so much importance on others opinion's of us through words that only have meaning to the ones who know the language, a lot of the bickering back and forth that has occurred in this thread (and in day to day life) could be energy better spent elsewhere.
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Re: What constitutes Misogyny?

Postby Canadian_watcher » Wed Mar 23, 2011 6:14 pm

WakeUpAndLive wrote:I find our attachment to words slightly comedic. It is a configuration of made up ideas that we have condensed into sounds produced by our vocal boxes. It is only the importance WE put on such sounds that define whether we decide to make it negative or positive. When people stop being affected by a word it usually becomes quite useless as a tool against them.


*edit*

I also would like to expand on this a little bit because I feel some might take it the wrong way. I do not feel the desensitization towards the use of a word is what I'm referring to. I just feel if we stopped putting so much importance on others opinion's of us through words that only have meaning to the ones who know the language, a lot of the bickering back and forth that has occurred in this thread (and in day to day life) could be energy better spent elsewhere.


ahhh! see, you edited before I got to jump all over you to register my protest! :)

Words are exceptionally powerful. There's even a whole school of thought that holds that they are magical - alchemical. Maybe it's true, too, since words are really the only reason anyone ever does anything, when you get right down to it.
Satire is a sort of glass, wherein beholders do generally discover everybody's face but their own.-- Jonathan Swift

When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him. -- Jonathan Swift
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Re: What constitutes Misogyny?

Postby charlie meadows » Wed Mar 23, 2011 6:39 pm

Canadian_watcher wrote:Words are exceptionally powerful. There's even a whole school of thought that holds that they are magical - alchemical. Maybe it's true, too, since words are really the only reason anyone ever does anything, when you get right down to it.


:)
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Re: What constitutes Misogyny?

Postby Plutonia » Wed Mar 23, 2011 7:22 pm

Bitch. Yeah, I used to consider it a compliment because my default setting was compliance. But that was "back in the day". Now I tend to warn people that I can be a bitch - without apologies - because I can be intractable and unaccommodating of peoples' feelings, which has on occasion provoked the accusation - BITCH!!!!

But, contrariwise, I really dislike this song, which I still hear quite often:



But I wonder what you all make of this vid I came across today:

[the British] government always kept a kind of standing army of news writers who without any regard to truth, or to what should be like truth, invented & put into the papers whatever might serve the minister

T Jefferson,
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Re: What constitutes Misogyny?

Postby justdrew » Wed Mar 23, 2011 7:40 pm

Plutonia wrote:But I wonder what you all make of this vid I came across today:


classic onion there. There's more video on the subject too, beyond Stiller's PSA. Look in the most recent ep of ONN.
By 1964 there were 1.5 million mobile phone users in the US
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Re: What constitutes Misogyny?

Postby WakeUpAndLive » Wed Mar 23, 2011 7:59 pm

Canadian_watcher wrote:ahhh! see, you edited before I got to jump all over you to register my protest! :)

Words are exceptionally powerful. There's even a whole school of thought that holds that they are magical - alchemical. Maybe it's true, too, since words are really the only reason anyone ever does anything, when you get right down to it.


I'm of the opposite opinion, as I feel emotion and feeling are more powerful than words. Just look at the effect of a text message vs a verbal communication...so many times the words are lost due to lack of true emotion behind them. Emotion and feeling are magical, words are an attempt to express that magic.

Not that it has any true significance but I always think of this one experience when conversation is brought up, because IMO it really negates the need for human beings to verbally communicate as much as we do. This was probably about 10 years ago, my cousin, two sisters, and myself were playing the game taboo. The teams were sisters vs cousin and myself (male vs female if it has any meaning to this). No cheating took place, but my sisters were kicking our butts. There were times when my sisters guessed the word without any verbal or physical ques. They were intellectually able to pick up on each others thought and speak the answer. As a 12 year old male I was pissed, not only because I lost to my sisters, but because their level of accuracy was insanely high for the game (near 100%) that my only rational explanation at the time was that they were cheating. They were not, which if I recall correctly didn't help with my anger because I wanted an explanation for their dominance in the game. I always believed humans could communicate on a deeper level, but seeing it in example right before my eyes opened up new possibilities.


Having gained more knowledge since that point I really feel parallel universe/holographic universe theories lend itself to the explanation of this event. If one were to believe McKenna's holographic universe (or pretty much just about any explanation of parallel universe where information is rapidly transmitted between two separate, on this world, beings), then it isn't too hard to believe that their connection at that time was so intertwined in this parallel universe that their thoughts were the same. I haven't researched enough into parallel universe, but from my little understanding of it, this would be how it works, please correct me if I'm wrong.

So anyways, just my anecdotal view points on communication and the *OVER* importance we put on words.


*edited for correctness
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