MK is of Nazi Project Paperclip derivation

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re:

Postby Ike Broflovski » Tue Jun 06, 2006 7:20 pm

According to <!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_cryptonyms">this Wikipedia link on CIA cryptonyms</a><!--EZCODE LINK END-->, "MK" was a prefix for "projects sponsored by the CIA's Technical Services Division." <p></p><i></i>
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Re: MK

Postby Hugh Manatee Wins » Tue Jun 06, 2006 7:35 pm

Hmm. Technical Services, ay?<br><br><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>M</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END-->ein <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>K</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END-->ampf is an instruction manual of sorts. Maybe...<br><br>The few men doing this work at the time had an insider sense of irony and John Stockwell describes some of the word games and fooling around used in ascribing code names in his post-CIA tell-all 'In Search of Enemies."<br><br>Dr. Sidney Gottleib would only call the LSD he was experimenting with "Serunim" according to John Marks in his 'The Search for the Manchurian Candidate." <p></p><i></i>
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Gottlieb was point man

Postby The Omega Man » Wed Jun 07, 2006 11:21 am

Sidney Gottlieb ran the TSS Technical Services Section, so he is the point man for a number of critical MK Operations. Allen Dulles also figures prominently, so I wonder if they personally had anything to do with the establishment of the MK crytonym. <br><br>Hugh & Ike: Mein Kampf (My Struggle/Battle) could perhaps be feasible, although a bit heavy handed to use in my opinion. Still it is worth keeping in the top 5 of possibilities. <p></p><i></i>
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MKULTRA

Postby Quentin Quire » Wed Jun 07, 2006 4:37 pm

I think the post above with the info from Wikipedia seems most likely in my opinion. If the intial 'M' prefix is correct then other projects under that classification are related to scientific weapons research --<br><br>MKDELTA: Stockpiling of lethal biological and chemical agents, subsequently became MKNAOMI <br><br>MKNAOMI: Stockpiling of lethal biological and chemical agents, successor to MKDELTA <br><br>MKULTRA: Mind control research. MKULTRA means MK (code for scientific projects) and ULTRA (top classification reference, re: ULTRA code breaking in WWII. Renamed MKSEARCH in 1964 <br><br>MKSEARCH: MKULTRA after 1964, mind control research <br><br>MKOFTEN: Testing effects of biological and chemical agents, part of MKSEARCH <br><br>Looking at the other acronyms and related projects it seems that mind control is the odd one out in otherwise more conventional weapons development programs. It would make sense to cloak a highly irregular mind control program under the guise of a convention weapons project with increased security and a limited hangout. The designation is incredibly vague and easy to disguise.<br><br>'MKULTRA? Just some doctors and lab rats experimenting with vaccines, Mr. Senator ...'<br><br>Is this is going on under the Cold War with increasing spy network activity then I find it doubtful that top secret projects would have acronyms and project classifications which the Russians would be able to decrypt such as German acronyms or anagrams.<br><br>That's not to say that MKULTRA scientists - many from Project Paperclip had some say in naming their work, but I find the hazing nature of Intelligence jargon to be a more likely reason for its designation. After all, many US Military and CIA projects around the time have seemingly random or innocent codenames that bear no relation to the projects actual role.<br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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Peter Levenda - Sinister Forces On MKULTRA

Postby Quentin Quire » Wed Jun 07, 2006 4:46 pm

Peter Levenda's 'Sinister Forces' Volumes 1 and 2 contain a great amount on information on Nazi employment in US Intelligence post-WW2 and a great deal on German scientists in MKULTRA and related projects. <br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://sinisterforces.info/">sinisterforces.info/</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br>Nazi techniques founded in Concentration Camps are certainly a major facet of scientific research during the era - especially in Mind Control. I don't doubt this, just that the actual designation of MKULTRA is directly related to German or Nazi terminology. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Peter Levenda - Sinister Forces On MKULTRA

Postby 4911 » Wed Jun 07, 2006 5:00 pm

maybe its got something like MJ-12 going on. <p></p><i></i>
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MJ-12 and MKULTRA

Postby Quentin Quire » Wed Jun 07, 2006 5:07 pm

Maybe that's why the MJ-12 designation, - something still argued amongst UFO buffs as to its truth - always sounded like a hokey name to me.<br><br>'Majesty' and 'Majestic' both evoke thoughts of an elite government body and 12 (as it's said) refers to the number of people involved in the whole affair. That's sounds way too James Bond and Marvel Comics to me ...<br><br>If you compare it to the MK series of designations (released under FOIA rules) MJ-12 (which appeared much later) seems as if its almost too much in line with previous codenames - almost as if it was trying to be an important top secret project, which is surely not the best way to advertise a covert operation involving aliens and crashed space-craft ... <p></p><i></i>
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Re: MJ-12 and MKULTRA

Postby The Omega Man » Wed Jun 07, 2006 9:28 pm

Thanks Quentin for the valuable contirbution, I think that it sheds light on some of the more unknown factors in this nomenclature. Sinister Forces Vol. 1 and 2 are definitely on the must get list, queued up with a number of others ahead in priority. I'm also in total accord with you here: <!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>That's not to say that MKULTRA scientists - many from Project Paperclip had some say in naming their work, but I find the hazing nature of Intelligence jargon to be a more likely reason for its designation. After all, many US Military and CIA projects around the time have seemingly random or innocent codenames that bear no relation to the projects actual role.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--> Like OFTENCHICKWIT for curious example, and you make a valid observation with: <!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Is this is going on under the Cold War with increasing spy network activity then I find it doubtful that top secret projects would have acronyms and project classifications which the Russians would be able to decrypt such as German acronyms or anagrams.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END-->. <br><br>1) So to consolidate the findings so far we have a definition of MK that may or may not have a Teutonic origin, but still might have a Latin or homegrown derivation. The possibility of a Germanic Paperclip origin diminished because of possible Soviet intelligence decryption. So the Paperclip brigade wouldn't just leave 'Mind Kontrolle' or any variation of it, just hanging out in the wind like that.<br><br>2) The MK resides in a number of subprojects (DELTA, NAOMI, etc.) that are related within a periphery which seem to always be capitalized and this would suggest an acronym of some kind.<br><br>3) The family of projects all fall in line with psychological manipulation of one or another. Dulles might have named it or Gottlieb for that matter. It's absolutely possible that the murdered Frank Olsen knew of it, as he came into the embryonic stages of it when it was known as Operation Artichoke, which I know for fact was dubbed by Allen Dulles himself. <br><br>4) The paradox of this naming convention also lies in the furtherance that it could have a psychological appellation of some sort.<br><br>5) Are the projects under the onus of the military or intelligence? Or both? I think both and perhaps in this case they're interchangeable. The ONI (Office of Naval Intelligence and a name for a Japanese demon by the way) and Lt. Commander Thomas Narut dovetails in perfectly with MK-DELTA which were the field operations that utilized the research from MK-ULTRA, the Jonestown Operation was an MK-DELTA field op whose cover was blown and cleaning teams promptly dispatched. The Sirhan Sirhan RFK kill was an MK-DELTA op in my opinion as well as the Manson Family incidents directed by Charles "Tex" Watson and not the other Charles.<br><br>As for MJ-12 or Majestic 12, I too have always felt in my gut that it was a contrived name that fell out of an unpublished Ian Fleming novel. <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=theomegaman@rigorousintuition>The Omega Man</A> at: 6/7/06 7:31 pm<br></i>
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Re: Wike as a source?

Postby chiggerbit » Wed Jun 07, 2006 10:44 pm

Of cource, this could just be disinfo:<br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://bannedinamerica.blogspot.com/">bannedinamerica.blogspot.com/</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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