Richard Heinberg Openly Supports White Separatist

by **robertdreed** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 7:52 am

I still don't get the fixation on the immigration issue. I live in the most ethnically diverse city in the United States- Sacramento, California. Twenty years ago this place was much different in terms of its ethic composition. But since the immigrants arrived, I haven't noticed the overall quality of life going down. I can imagine how there might be reasons why it might be a more negative phenomenon somewhere else, depending on the level of education and skills of the immigrant population. But I don't understand what makes it so important, as if somehow all of your problems would be solved if only you didn't have to interact with foreigners. Nor do I understand the hostility. What sets you off about them? On a related note, have you taken any steps toward personal self-improvement lately? Taken any school classes, learned any foreign languages, developed any new skills? Because one thing I've noticed about the immigrants I know is that they're capable of taking initiative. They're often people who have given up a lot on a risk, to begin a new life Imigrants often start at the bottom when they arrive in the new country. They don't turn up their noses at work because they're too good for it. And they have a way of making their own opportunities. You can't deny that that's true libertarian character. I wonder if some of your hostility isn't due to envy. I also wonder about the culture about which you claim to be so protective. What does it mean to you? Who's your favorite classical composer? Have you been to a nearby art museum lately? Who have you been reading lately? Do you have a favorite poet? Is the immigrant population really so burdensome that it's crowding out all opportunities to experience your own culture? Do you have a problem with the high percentage of colonials on your football teams? I've never been to Britain, but my sister was there last summer. She didn't make any note of the presence of an immigrant population in London. Could it be that you're over-reacting to the problem? Where in the UK do you live? How deep are your family ties and roots where you're living? One more thing: have you ever considered immigrating elsewhere yourself?

by **jenz** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 8:15 am

it would be inaccurate to say, in addition to what I've already said, that there are no problems which relate to high immigration in certain areas of the uk. principally this relates to municipal housing and health care and social services being inundated with more problems than solutions, and naturally, long term residents feel the abrasion if they are shoved down the housing list, or can't get a doctor, and percive this as being because the place is full up with recent arrivals. its a complex prob. partly to do with the double act of letting in covertly workers who are needed (pos to keep wage rates down?) and making sure that they stick in areas where probs exist already, without upping the infrastructure. its not the kind of prob. that lends itself to the solution of 'white separatism', but it it can appear as if it would be all ok if only we could turn the clock back to some mythical rosy pinky past, if you aren't thinking too clearly. angry people don't think too clearly, and being poor in the kind of areas where there is not enough of anything that makes life pleasant or bearable is a recipe for anger. the targets for that anger identify themselves by their difference. its an old story. actually so many poor live cheek by jowl with people different in skin colour, culture religioin etc to themselves without hate, that there must be another catalyst. and up pop the banner wavers. divide and conquer. nuvva old story. keep the plebs scrapping amongst themselves. sorry thump, can't see that white separatists don't have an agenda that is a concern to me;no-one makes you share your house with someone you don't want - that's lies. you do have to share your country with people, in return, they get to pay taxes, work, shop, study, worship, or not, - what was your point actually?

by **robertdreed** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 9:34 am

I don't want to sound dismissive of valid concerns. And I do think it's possible that there could be a ruling class agenda behind burdening a nation with too many new immigrants, too fast. I even consider that possible in the USA, especially considering the penny-pinching attitudes toward infrastructure in this country, which badly needs to expand- and quickly- before we backslide to an era of sewage burdened rivers, dirt road barrios on city outskirts, rural slums, corroded and leaky water mains and plumbing, substandard and hazardous housing, and all the rest of what stands to happen if the country adds35 million people in the next 20 years, while only adding the infrastructure capacity for 20 million. In earlier eras, the USA had plenty of capacity to absorb new waves of population- which at any rate were nowhere near as high numerically as the case today. But it isn't that way any more, particularly if we intend to keep to "first world" standards into the future. But I don't know much at all about the situation in the UK- the total number of recent immigrants, total number in London, the immigration laws that enable people to move to Britain from foreign lands. I'd like to learn anything I can about it.

by **israelirealities** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 10:00 am

Today's syndicated NYTimes huge feature on 16000 Eastern Europeans (mainly Poles) entering UK monthly, already 250,000 this year. This is the largest immigration, and upon UK decision to open its gates to anyone from Eastern Europe (along with Ireland and Sweden). UK explains this odd move, in SHORTAGE of workers in construction and care, and that still is 800,000 positions unfilled. The people interviewed for the feature were ranting that "they are taking the jobs" (which for some reason they don't want to do), but other than that, London is filled with Polish speaking newcomers. This, of course does not bother the "white separatists"...so, its not the immigration onus, but the color of the immigrants... or their race, or long noses...that bother some.

by **veritas** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 11:18 am

Isn't he cute? <img src="http://members.ij.net/captbob2112/troll.jpg" style="border:0;"/>

by **robertdreed** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 12:09 pm

Interesting stats, IR. It had slipped my mind that much of Europe has been in fact losing population, due to low birth rate, and that this in turn portends a looming liquidity crisis in term so social benefits. Hmm, since someone has to pay into the system, maybe immigrants aren't the drain they're presumed to be by people who haven't been checking their facts. I haven't seen thumper do much number-crunching statistical analysis thus far, at any rate. And the Poles, of all people, comprise the top nationality of immigrants. How stereotype-defying...I would never have guessed. But, that's the way it so often is in regard to these matters, once one uses their intelligence to review and analyze the facts. It sobers you up, a potent antidote to urban legend folklore, which tends to show telltale imprints of irrationality, sprung from reflex retrograde tendencies like xenophobia. Emotional reaction. Only natural that as animals, humans would retain traces of such unreflective instincts, but the course to becoming fully human depends on applying intelligence to resist instinct and put it in its place. That's part of both fidelity to truth, and asserting free will. I realize that arguing against being governed by instinct is abhorrent to bigots and fascists, who make a fetish of exalting the instincts- which, along with such mammalian reflex traits as xenophobia, jealousy, and pack hierarchy, also include the principle of awe and fealty to the alpha male primate...

by **veritas** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 12:27 pm

Can anyone remember the topic of this thread? It goes very deep. Do not let Thumper distract. This is a key. A clue. Heinberg wrote for New Dawn. Here is one fan of New Dawn: <blockquote>Quote:<hr> "New Dawn magazine is one of the best sources of realistic information on the state of things in our world as it nears its inevitable and predicted end. For some people it could seem to be a little bit strange and weird, phantasmagoric... But the reality in which we live is itself something strange and weird... New Dawn magazine helps us to persist. And gives us hope for the better world that is coming..." – ALEXANDRE DUGIN, leader of International Eurasian Movement <a href="http://www.newdawnmagazine.com.au/whatisnewdawn.html">www.newdawnmagazine.com.a...wdawn.html</a> <hr></blockquote> Here is Heinberg ABOUT Dugin: <blockquote>Quote:<hr> Meanwhile, in Russia political theorist Alexander Dugin was gaining increasing influence with anti-American geostrategic writings. In 1997, the same year Brzezinski's The Grand Chessboard appeared, Dugin published his own manifesto, The Basics of Geopolitics, advocating a reconstituted Russian Empire composed of a continental bloc of states allied to cleanse the Eurasian land-mass of US influence. At the center of this bloc Dugin posited a "Eurasian axis" of Russia, Germany, Iran, and Japan. While Dugin's ideas were banned during Soviet times for their echoes of Nazi pan-Eurasian fantasies, they gradually gained influence among post-Soviet Russian officials. For example, the Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs recently decried the "strengthening tendency towards the formation of a unipolar world under financial and military domination by the United States" and called for a "multipolar world order," while emphasizing Russia's "geopolitical position as the largest Eurasian state." Russia's Communist party has adopted Dugin's ideas in its platform; Gennady Zyuganov, Communist Party chairman, even published his own primer on geopolitics, titled Geography of Victory. Though Dugin remains a marginal figure internationally, his ideas cannot help but resonate in a country and continent increasingly hemmed in and manipulated by a powerful and arrogant hegemonic nation on the other side of the globe. Outwardly, Russia - like Germany, France, Japan, and China - still usually defers to the US. Even dissent from the Bush buildup to war on Iraq has remained fairly muted. But in private, leaders in all of these countries are no doubt making new plans. Few would yet go so far as to agree with Alexander Dugin's view that Eurasia will come to dominate the US, not the other way around. Yet in just three years, many Eurasian leaders' attitudes toward American hegemony have shifted from quiet acceptance to biting criticism to a serious examination of the alternatives. The American Dilemma Dugin and other Eurasian critics of US power begin from a premise that would seem ludicrous to most Americans. To Dugin, the US is acting not out of strength, but of weakness. <a href="http://www.museletter.com/archive/132.html">www.museletter.com/archive/132.html</a> <hr></blockquote> who is Dugin? Who is Dugin? Russian nationalist. Occultist. Fascist. Oh my. <blockquote>Quote:<hr> The mankind has always had two types of spirituality, two paths — "Right Hand Path" and "Left Hand Path". The first one is characterized by the positive attitude to the surrounding world; the world is seen as harmony, equilibrium, good, peace. All the evil is viewed as a particular case, a deviation from the norm, something inessential, transient, without deep transcendental reasons. Right Hand Path is also called "The Way of Milk". It doesn’t hurt a person, it preserves him from radical experience, withdraws from immersion into suffering, from the nightmare of life. This is a false path. It leads into a dream. The one going by it will reach nowhere... The second path, the "Left Hand Path", sees all in an inverted perspective. Not dairy tranquility, but black suffering; not silent calm, but torturous, fiery drama of splitted life. This is "A Path of Wine". It is destructive, terrible, anger and violence reigns there. For the one who is going by this path all reality is perceived as hell, as the ontological exile, as torture, as immersion into the heart of some inconceivable catastrophe originating from the heights of space. If in the first path everything seems as good, in the second — as evil. This path is monstrously difficult, but only this path is true. It is easy to stumble on it, and it is even easier to parish. It guarantees nothing. It tempts nobody. But only this path is the true one. Who follows it — will find glory and immortality. Who will withstand — will conquer, will receive the award, which is higher than life. <a href="http://arctogaia.com/public/eng/gnostic.htm">arctogaia.com/public/eng/gnostic.htm</a> <img src="<a href="http://arctogaia.com/public/images/Trad_Rev.gif"">arctogaia.com/public/imag...d_Rev.gif"</a> style="border:0;"/> <hr></blockquote> Old Dugin: <blockquote>Quote:<hr> The Jews are the carriers of a religious culture which is deeply distinct from all historical displays of Indo-European spirituality - from ancient Aryan heathen cults to Hinduism and Christianity. The voluntary or forced seizure of the Jewish diaspora from the Indo-European peoples cannot be a casual episode of history, and no Orthodox Jew will ever deny the theological underlying basis of Jewish "peculiarity". The Jewish question, no matter by whom and how it was put, should begin with a recognition of this fundamental fact - "the Jews are a community which keeps the secret of its radical differences from other peoples". If we do not admit distinction, then it is simply senseless to speak about the Jewish problem. -----------------------snip------------------------------ The world of "Judaica" is a world hostile to us. But our feeling of Aryan justice and the gravity of our geopolitical situation require comprehension of its laws, rules and interests. The Indo-European elite stands today before a titanic task - to understand those who are not only culturally, nationally and politically, but also metaphysically different. And in this case, "to understand" means not "to forgive", but "to defeat". And "to defeat with the Light of Truth". <a href="http://www.arctogaia.com/public/eng/defeat.html">www.arctogaia.com/public/eng/defeat.html</a><hr></blockquote> These are deep and perilous waters. Do you see? Can you see the nexus? Heinberg. New Dawn. Shambala. Indo-European Golden Age. There is more. Much more. Do you want to know? Will you hear?

by **israelirealities** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 12:27 pm

Another fact usually forgotten, when speaking about immigration and its plights, is that the true lobby FOR cheap labor (usually the non whites that bother everyone) is the "employers" namely, the large money, they need the hands. ANd they also are the first to press for "harsh conditions against immigration/illegals, and the trick is clear - they want the hands but they want them to be under fire, so they can rip them off, and deprive them of minimum wages etc., This is known fact among activists who deal with undocumented aliens. Its a scam, and the only way to deal with immigration is through understanding these mechanisms. Nobody is letting in people just because they like multicultural society or feel bad for the downtrodden. The hands are needed and the quotas are set by the rich and mighty. They however enjoy the bigots' rantings, because it gives them more accomodating workers. Yikes, but true. Even refugees (that's an issue for another thread) are admitted on the basis of economic needs and not "being nice and humanist". Countries like Canada make a lot of money from the refugees, but then they set out some right wing groups to rant that the system is inviting parasites because Canada pays social assistance to applicants and pays for the medical insurance. Of cousre, this is peanuts compared to the big money they make out of this arrangement. But this is a classic playing both sides of the arguments in order to squeeze more out of the already squeezable newcomers.)

by **AnnaLivia** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 1:35 pm

"Do you want to know? Will you hear?" billboard size: are you kidding? YES and YES

by **jenz** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 1:41 pm

Thanks IR. I was trying to work out how to flesh out this point about it really being exploitation game without delivering an ambiguous message. for a long time certain industries (and agriculture) and criminal outfits, have profited from the situation of people who first of all pay to get taken to the UK, then get put into the gang master racket, or prostitution. not everyone of course. Poles can come in legally, but they then find that the wages which seemed attractive when in Warsaw, don't go far when looking for a roof in London. Many get to work in jobs which are underpaid even by local standards, not unionised of course, generally sub contracted, and this despite the fact that they have in many cases qualifications which might have led them to expect better things. (have met individuals in these situations) similar things happening in France. friction in the building trade because qualified plumbers, builders , tilers etc who are willing to work below usual rates and without social security cover, are being used, hired on a day by day basis. sometimes not paid at all - they can't complain. The authorities have agents who go round to sites trying to find evidence, but they have a hard time, because the site owner sub contracts to a fly by night firm which then hires people frightened to be identified. The plight iof the Chinese which came to media attention when they drowned , had been signalled by locals to the authorities before the tragedy. basically, many people are effectively working as slaves, they are virtually owned by the gang masters who house them in cramped conditions, drive them to the work site etc. This is not the whole immigration story but it is a part of it. the exploiters are by no means always brits themselves - the gangmasters or pimps or whatever sometimes are themselves 'immigrants'. I don't believe that these human tragedies are accidental. migrant labour comes without the baggage of children, old folks, pregnant wives its not us (whites) and them (multicoloured immigrants) its all of us, being made fragile, expendable, free floating labour units. its the undoing of the social security system which came into being post WW2. its that kind of libertarianism. the liberty to get trampled when too old or sick or young or pregnant to work for a crust.

by **thumperton** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 2:44 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>I visit London pretty frequently. in case anyone who doesn't know it well has the impression that the capital is over-run with recent immigrants from one part of the world, that is a distortion. where I usually stay, I can walk in about 10 minutes to a plate glass and steel financial district, all cafe latte, and business suits, or in another direction to an area with one of the largest mosques, and a vibrant street market. but if I get the bus either way, liklihood is that there will be at least a dozen different languages being spoken around me, european, african, asian, (far east included), and just as many again english acents. when I go visit a friend in another quarter, I am passing many long term residents of Jewish faith, as well as whole bunch of other people .<hr></blockquote>Yes, that's one point, but I was refering more to the fact that London was the home to many Islamic terrorist groups. Type "Londonstian" into Wikipedia.org and it presents quite the laundry list. Even better is www.jihadwatch.org ---------- The presence of active Islamists in London began to cause tensions with Middle Eastern, European and the United States governments, who view many of these groups as terrorists. After terrorist attacks by Algerian militants in France in 1995 the French government accused the British government of not doing enough to curtail their activities. Foreign governments were particularly angered when the head of Al-Muhajiroun, Omar Bakri Muhammad, claimed he lived in the UK under a "covenant of security", whereby he was left alone by the authorities so long as he did not sanction attacks on British soil. The British government denied the claim. Some suspects of the 1995 attacks on Paris have fled to the United Kingdom; as of 2005, France is still waiting for the extradition of suspect Rachid Ramda. Several non-British major newspapers have echoed the claim that the UK intentionally tolerates radical Muslims and hinders extradition of suspects in order to buy peace from terrorists. [2] [3] <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Londonistan">en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Londonistan</a> ------ Of course this is contrived. Without MI6 backed 'terrorists' we don't get our War on Terror. However, it also serves to create a police state of fear. <blockquote>Quote:<hr>About 20 years ago I lived quite near Oldham, and at that time, although the primary wave of immigration of textile workers from the bangladeshi region had been established for 25 years or so, and their children and grandchildren were going through schooling, there was virtually no overt racism which I came across. This was the case despite pretty high unemployment across the board at that time. kids played together, joked with one another, mum's swapped recipes.<hr></blockquote>What about the race riots that happened there 2001, or even the recent one in Birmingham. <img src="http://pichold.com/Images/Smilies/hsugh.gif" style="border:0;"/> I don't understand why people keep railing against the Nazis, when it's obvious that it was the Communists who won, and they killed more than TEN TIMES the amount of people. Their whole M.O. is to create class warfare in every single facet of society. It's all sophisticated dialectics. Makow said it best: The NWO champions multiculturalism, inter faithism and homosexuality because they undermine the hitherto dominant European Christian heterosexual majority. This is necessary to create a world where no group is able to challenge the power of the wealthy Illuminati families. Jews, homosexuals, feminists and ethnic minorities enjoy an official monopoly on persecution because these unwitting groups are being used to undermine society and bring about their tyranny. What better way to persecute the majority than do it covertly, and deny that it is even taking place? Let the majority think they are the oppressors. And if they realize the truth, they will be afraid to mention it for fear of appearing "intolerant." <a href="http://www.savethemales.ca/000231.html" target="top">www.savethemales.ca/000231.html</a>

by **thumperton** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 3:06 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>I still don't get the fixation on the immigration issue. I live in the most ethnically diverse city in the United States- Sacramento, California. Twenty years ago this place was much different in terms of its ethic composition. But since the immigrants arrived, I haven't noticed the overall quality of life going down. I can imagine how there might be reasons why it might be a more negative phenomenon somewhere else, depending on the level of education and skills of the immigrant population. But I don't understand what makes it so important, as if somehow all of your problems would be solved if only you didn't have to interact with foreigners. Nor do I understand the hostility. What sets you off about them? <hr></blockquote>We have a lot of ethnic gangs running around, and they create ghettos in their wake. Brixton is the 'Detroit' of the UK. London is actually now more dangerous than New York or Chicago. <blockquote>Quote:<hr>On a related note, have you taken any steps toward personal self-improvement lately? Taken any school classes, learned any foreign languages, developed any new skills? Because one thing I've noticed about the immigrants I know is that they're capable of taking initiative. They're often people who have given up a lot on a risk, to begin a new life Imigrants often start at the bottom when they arrive in the new country. They don't turn up their noses at work because they're too good for it. And they have a way of making their own opportunities. You can't deny that that's true libertarian character. I wonder if some of your hostility isn't due to envy.<hr></blockquote>good for them, they should build up their own country. Of course the plan though has been for the IMF to wreck their economies, giving them the impetus to flood western ones. But allowing them in is also bad, as it's used to undermine western civilization. Two wrong don't make a right. And what's libertarian is not having to tolerate anything you don't like <img src="http://pichold.com/Images/Smilies/redface.gif" style="border:0;"/> <blockquote>Quote:<hr>I also wonder about the culture about which you claim to be so protective. What does it mean to you? Who's your favorite classical composer? Have you been to a nearby art museum lately? Who have you been reading lately? Do you have a favorite poet? Is the immigrant population really so burdensome that it's crowding out all opportunities to experience your own culture? Do you have a problem with the high percentage of colonials on your football teams? I've never been to Britain, but my sister was there last summer. She didn't make any note of the presence of an immigrant population in London. Could it be that you're over-reacting to the problem? Where in the UK do you live? How deep are your family ties and roots where you're living? One more thing: have you ever considered immigrating elsewhere yourself?<hr></blockquote>I feel like a foreigner in the capital city <img src="http://pichold.com/Images/Smilies/dunno.gif" style="border:0;"/> To put the whole thing in perspective, we just need to know that this whole thing is being pushed by the illuminati, which of course doesn't have our best interest at heart. Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=thumperton@rigorousintuition>thumperton</A> at: 10/31/05 12:14 pm

by **thumperton** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 3:22 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Another fact usually forgotten, when speaking about immigration and its plights, is that the true lobby FOR cheap labor (usually the non whites that bother everyone) is the "employers" namely, the large money, they need the hands. ANd they also are the first to press for "harsh conditions against immigration/illegals, and the trick is clear - they want the hands but they want them to be under fire, so they can rip them off, and deprive them of minimum wages etc., This is known fact among activists who deal with undocumented aliens. Its a scam, and the only way to deal with immigration is through understanding these mechanisms. Nobody is letting in people just because they like multicultural society or feel bad for the downtrodden. The hands are needed and the quotas are set by the rich and mighty. They however enjoy the bigots' rantings, because it gives them more accomodating workers. Yikes, but true. Even refugees (that's an issue for another thread) are admitted on the basis of economic needs and not "being nice and humanist". Countries like Canada make a lot of money from the refugees, but then they set out some right wing groups to rant that the system is inviting parasites because Canada pays social assistance to applicants and pays for the medical insurance. Of cousre, this is peanuts compared to the big money they make out of this arrangement. But this is a classic playing both sides of the arguments in order to squeeze more out of the already squeezable newcomers.)<hr></blockquote>how do you explain immigrant groups in Europe being the biggest consumers of welfare? MALMO, Sweden - Swedish authorities in the southern city of Malmö have been busy with a sudden influx of Muslim immigrants - 90 percent of whom are unemployed and many who are angry and taking it out on the country that took them in. <a href="http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=16125">www.frontpagemag.com/Arti...p?ID=16125</a>

by **robertdreed** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 4:03 pm

You've been on the board a while...in this discussion you've at last provided more of a glimpse of yourself than you realize. You're a textbook case of someone who thinks that the only way they can feel good about themselves is to find a way to feel superior to someone different, and lower in status. Other than that...well, you don't seem to have brought much to your own table. You also sound like someone who doesn't chart their own course, who requires being part of a group in order to feel secure about themselves. But throwing in your lot with a pack of bullies and thugs is no substitute for getting a life. Can you do better? That's a question only you can answer. Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=robertdreed>robertdreed</A> at: 10/31/05 1:07 pm

by **veritas** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 4:09 pm

Maybe this thread could be about Heinberg. Maybe this talk of immigration and hate can go to another thread? Heinberg is important. Thumper is not.

Richard Heinberg Openly Supports White Separatist

thumperton...

housing

UK immigration

Re: UK immigration

Thumper

immigration statistics

Heinberg and nazi occult

Re: immigration statistics

Re: veritas

Chinese cockle pickers

Re: London

Re: thumperton...

Re: immigration statistics

thumperton...

unhijack this thread

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