Let me get this straight.

[Dreams End]

<br><br>Let me see if I can summarize my predicament as someone trying hard to be on the side of the good guys.<br><br>I oppose the Iraq and Afghanistan wars because our country is simply using terrorism to advance a geopolitical agenda. To do this, they have managed to demonize Muslims as terrorists. However, I must be careful, because, in fact, there has been a lot of Nazi influence and money poured into the Muslim world to advance an anti-Semitic agenda. In other words, if you forget about the Nazi part, things are pretty much as my government says they are.<br><br>EXCEPT, my own government is ALSO funding these Arab/neo-Nazi types. So I must oppose them, but always hastening to add that I don't buy my own government's version of how this all came down the pike. <br><br>So off I go to my local anti-War protest, which is in conjunction with an ANSWER call for national action. ANSWER's leader, Ramsey Clark, has been villified by many for his associations with the WWP, a communist organization. However, I, TOO, upon further review, must also shun Clark, because he, TOO, has been a defender of Nazi war criminals and Islamo-fascist terrorists all while merely PRETENDING to be far LEFT. <br><br>I go home and cry for awhile, unsure where to turn. I try moveon.org, but it's funded by SOROS, whose mission in life seems to be to make the world safe for imperialism. I try COUNTERPUNCH but no one there will even talk about things important to me, such as Nazi/Islamic ties...much less any conspiracy to bring down the towers or JFK. Democracy Now...Democracy Later...maybe.<br><br>I decide that the problem is to be found among the dominance of a relative handful of multinational corporations, working, with men like Soros, to batter down even the tiniest of barriers to raping the resources and exploiting the populations of all the nations of the world. I don't like these corporations for these reasons, and for their absolute disregard for the destruction of the environment.<br><br>So I grab my sea-turtle costume and a pair of stilts...maybe some papier-mache supplies...and high tail it to an anti-globalist protest. These things always take place where the rich and powerful gather to plot the next phase of enslaving the masses. I'll show them! Much to my dismay, neo-nazi front groups are preaching the same message and hijacking much of the environmental movement on one end while corporations are co-opting it at the other. At the same time, ideas of "overpopulation" and "resource depletion" are being used to justify profoundly racist anti-immigrant measures and floating the idea that, gosh darn it, the third world can't be saved...just not enough food/water/oil to keep them afloat. If we are careful in our own country and keep enough of them out, some of us just might make it. <br><br>Now, though I've found the science I've read about global warming to be very persuasive, even THAT gets called into question as it has become a kind of "we got ours...too bad you didn't get yours in time" message to emerging global economic industrial powers.<br><br>BUT..I REALLY DON'T LIKE POLLUTION and tundra really is melting so fast that caribou are growing fins.<br><br>Nevertheless, I have become very skeptical of the environmental movement, especially as environmental themes are used to advance very anti-human agendas. I even find a Green Nazi party website. I find that there is also a whole movement of people calling for "population reduction" and they frighten me, too. So I get to researching and find BOFFO good material to refute their genocidal plans. <br><br>But THEN I find that most of THIS material comes from Lyndon Larouche and co. Larouche, of course, has a history of anti-Semitism and fascist politics, though he started out on the left in the Socialist Workers Party which is the same party that spawned the WWP now working with Clark. And Clark is actually Larouche's freaking LAWYER. <br><br>Bottom line: the ANTI-anti-globalists are also being poisoned by the fascists.<br><br>And this, by the way, is all WITHOUT really getting into trying to research the conspiracies themselves which are so essential to keeping the world safe for fascism. Because, despite the fact that I'm convinced there is a fascist agenda behind these conspiracies....NEARLY EVERY FUCKING INTERNET SITE PURPORTING TO EXPOSE THESE CONSPIRACIES (present site excepted, of course) IS RUN BY FASCISTS. Cleverly shifting attention away from the real criminals onto tiny groups of people who just happen to be....<br><br><br>lizards...<br><br><br>But who used to be considered a particular ethnic group. <br><br><br>But only some of them. <br><br><br>Oh...and Queers.<br><br>Jeff...might as well go ahead and lock this thread. <br><br>I'll just be over here weeping.<br><br> <p></p><i></i>

[thumperton]

^ the only side you should be on is freedom. As well, just because you're anti-war doesn't make you pro-militant wahabbist <p></p><i></i>

[Gouda]

It is easier to be a pointsetta/pointsettia. Except in the spring. <br><br>Brilliant summary d.e. I think you got it straight. <br><br>Partial explanation for this predicament might be found in "Celine's Laws" by Hagbard Celine (Robert Anton Wilson): Increasing national security increases national insecurity - the resultant increase in authoritarianism "produces miscommunication and eventual idiocy" - The paranoia generated within this hemorrhaging police state then spreads out to everyone and back in, via infinite loop(iness), etc. etc. Hagbard sez: <br><br><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>This escalating sense of suspiciousness is accelerated by the fact that every secret police organization engages in both the collection of information and the production of misinformation. That is, you score points in the secret-police game both by hoarding signals...and by foisting false signals...to the other players. This creates the situation which I call Optimum Fuckup, in which every participant has rational cause to suspect that every other player may be attempting to deceive him, gull him, con him, dupe him and generally misinform him.</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> (Illuminati Papers, 121-122)<br><br>Does anyone have anything on R.A. Wilson? <p></p><i></i>

[Watchful Citizen]

Agent provocateur<br>Patsy<br>Mole<br>Watchdog left<br>Good cop bad cop<br>Poison pill<br>Limited hang out<br><br>When the mirrors start to eat up all the light, I remind myself:<br><br>"There are those people who kill for money, and there are those who don't."<br><br>And then my focus usually comes back.<br><br>And I look for the CIA and Pentagon tapping into Biderman's Chart of Coercion by using morality theater to justify inequality and atrocity on the part of the government..<br><br>(Might make a good thread topic-"What are your bedrock principles in critical thinking and research?" ) <br> <p></p><i></i>

[Gouda]

I am getting bleary, and the Wilson quote seems somehow off, inappropriate to your post. <br><br>I was just reading some recent stuff by Subcomandante Marcos and will feel better quoting him before knocking of for the night. <br><br><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>We do not believe that the end justifies the means. Ultimately, we believe that the means are the end. We define our goal by the way we choose the means of struggling for it.<br>...<br>We went out into the world in the same way that we went out into literature. I think this marked us. We didn’t look out at the world through a news-wire but through a novel, an essay or a poem.</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> <br><br>-- Subcomandante Insurgente Marcos, from an Interview by García Márquez and Roberto Pombo in the New Left Review 9, May–June 2001<br> <p></p><i></i>

[Avalon]

You forgot to mention that the latest buzz is about the possibility that Michael Chertoff may have been Mohammed Atta's uncle's lawyer.<br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://cannonfire.blogspot.com/2005/09/did-homeland-security-chief-michael.html">cannonfire.blogspot.com/2...chael.html</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br>The only time I've heard Robert A Wilson speak he was invited by the local Thelemite group, so that's not going to sit well with some members of this board.<br><br> <p></p><i></i>

[Dreams End]

This post was a bit of a tongue in cheek rant, but I think some clues, actually, are in the documents Watchful linked to in the "donovan" thread. Especially the one on "morale operations" (propaganda). There are techniques in there such as "discredit your opposition by pretending to be an organization that agrees with them and then say extreme or discrediting things." These games are old, just getting more sophisticated. Definitely worth checking out his Donovan thread. <!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.icdc.com/~paulwolf/">www.icdc.com/~paulwolf/</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--> (I'm referring to stuff in his OSS section but the rest looks interesting as well. Haven't even STARTED on the cointelpro ones yet.)<br><br> <p></p><i></i>

[thrulookingglass]

Me, quoting Ferris, quoting John Lennon, written by John Hughes...<br>"I don't believe in beatles, I just believe in me."<br>Perhaps when you go out to voice your opinion against the cacophony of lies you are merely speaking for yourself. That's where it starts and ends. And my thanks for protesting! Freedom of speach starts with individuals.<br> <p></p><i></i>

[thumperton]

could we get a definition of fascist??? <p></p><i></i>

[lilorphant]

Love it, glad to see someone has it all figured out! <p></p><i></i>

[Qutb]

Excellent summary. Welcome to the world of conspiracy theories. I share your despair. <p><!--EZCODE FONT START--><span style="color:black;font-family:century gothic;font-size:x-small;"><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>Qutb means "axis," "pole," "the center," which contains the periphery or is present in it. The qutb is a spiritual being, or function, which can reside in a human being or several human beings or a moment. It is the elusive mystery of how the divine gets delegated into the manifest world and obviously cannot be defined.</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--></span><!--EZCODE FONT END--><br><br></p><i></i>

[ZeroHaven]

thumper -- use WWW.DICTIONARY.COM<br><br>I know i've had to an aweful lot to understand some of this stuff <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :D --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/happy.gif ALT=":D"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <br><br>fas·cist n An advocant or adherent of a system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism. <br><br>Sound familiar? If not, you gotta read more.. <p></p><i></i>

[Homeless Halo]

You are correct. Everyone could be out to get you. Hell, I could be out to get you.<br><br>It doesn't really matter.<br><br>Remember who you are, and what you want. Don't play anyone elses' games. Play your own.<br><br>It is too late to try to figure out what is the "truth". It doesn't exist anymore. You aren't going to find it. The liars, on the other hand, are right in front of you. You don't have to know the truth to know a lie.<br><br>We need focus. <p></p><i></i>

[revelation]

hi de,<br><br>I think this is really the great epiphany of any social/political research. When you realise that none of it _has_ to make sense you're free to explore a great many more avenues of thought.<br><br>And, considering that as a race we're about four sapiens short of a six-pack, I'd say any theory concerning us that made any sense at all wouldn't be worth the effort of typing it out.<br><br>Cheers <p></p><i></i>

[starroute]

Down at the base is something more or less like reality. The actualities of life on Earth in the 21st century. The problems the next generation or two will have to deal with. Overpopulation. Global warming. Peak oil. And beyond those the overriding need to create a more equal and just global system, because we're all in this together and we're not going to come through unless we deal cleanly with each other and play fair.<br><br>Then on top of that, you get another layer where various political approaches are proposed and tried out. Free market? State control? Globalism? Radical decentralization? Economic redistribution? Survival of the fittest?<br><br>Things on that level tend to be more ideological than real, but the people are still relatively sincere and there may be some nuggets of wisdom to be found.<br><br>But then on a level even further from reality you get the elites -- the Old Nasties -- who care about nothing but their own survival and continued dominance. By and large, they're not interested in playing fair or in what's best for the planet. They only care about what's best for them.<br><br>On that level, the internal differences aren't anything we would recognize as liberal vs. conservative. Instead, it's about questions like whether to let some large percent of the world's population die back or whether to reduce them to feudal misery while a tiny minority live in comfort. And there are even a few among the elites who are able to envision a genuinely better world for everyone -- but always with the proviso that they themselves remain on top.<br><br>So when you despair because everything is polluted, you're just recognizing the fact that one or another aspect of the elites is going to get its fingers into every political movement and do its best to corrupt anyone of any influence.<br><br>The only real answer to that is to keep your eye on reality -- both the mundane reality of basic things like food and energy and the higher spiritual reality of human consciousness -- and not get lost in the mirror-maze of memes and ideologies in the middle.<br><br><br> <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=starroute>starroute</A> at: 9/30/05 10:33 pm<br></i>