Mike Ruppert is a stooge

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Wishful thinking ...

Postby wolf pauli » Wed Jun 08, 2005 1:55 pm

... is all very well as a basis for <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>hope</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END-->, but not as a basis for <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>belief</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END-->. I wish I could play piano like McCoy Tyner or Glenn Gould, but on the day I believe it you can haul my sorry ass to the loony bin. <br><br><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>But there is one exception to your praise of our species, and that's GEORGE BUSH.</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--><br><br>That Dick Cheney, on the other hand, is a lovely lad. <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :) --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <br><br><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>i live in queens.</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--><br><br>Product of Brooklyn World myself. <p></p><i></i>
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no doubt

Postby human » Wed Jun 08, 2005 2:06 pm

i guess i would just consider hope belief with no balls...<br><br>lol.. i will just be a big pain in the ass whenever i hear doom & gloom, its so nice outside right now( abit hot), birds singing, im listening to good music, my family is doing okay... im alive.<br><br>being from brooklyn then, you must have a sense of how things really go down, when humans are faced with a situation they overcome it (despite what weve been led to believe) with respect & love... i think Tim Boucher (Occult Investigator) wrote a article about the 2003 blackout that says what i want too... what better example of our species ability to co operate and exist is there than the west end of long island! lol, IMO.<br><br><br>one<br>human? <p></p><i></i>
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sounds good to me

Postby human » Wed Jun 08, 2005 2:19 pm

World's biggest wind farm planned for London<br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/environment/story.jsp?story=645094">news.independent.co.uk/uk...ory=645094</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Whose a stooge, whose facts are garbled?

Postby heath7 » Wed Jun 08, 2005 4:00 pm

I was a bit provacative for the sake of discussion. That's not to say I misstated anything. The information that I presented is easily retrievable from a number of sites on the internet for those who wish to avoid being irrational alarmists.<br><br>For a few years now I've been following the 'peak oil' phenomenon, the whole while watching gas prices double and waiting for the disastrous consequences; it all seemed convincing enough. I've also been burned by futuristic conjecture before, a la Gary North and the whole Y2K thing, and I am a little more vigilant against falling for disaster scenarios now. I essentially believe peak oil to be true, but I knew that facts were being omitted, nothing is ever so black and white. I've read about oil sands and oil shale before; I'd read as well how it was prohibitively expensive and damaging to the environment to mine these sands and shale. Still there's trillions of barrels of oil in these sands and shale, and technology is constantly moving forward. This is not a defense of continued environment degradation, I was merely pointing out that if the oil can be pumped, it will. <br><br>As for the resource that I linked, nothing indicates it to be fraudulent. I linked it, out of dozens of webpages read by me on this matter just in the last week, because of the very simple quote. For those who didn't bother to read the article, allow me to give a little background: Sinopec is THE state-owned Chinese oil firm, and they have partnered with this Candadian company to extract oil from oil sands in Canada. The quote which I linked comes from an analyst at a major Asian financial institution, stating that as long as oil stays above $30 a barrel, then the oil sands venture will be profitable. That quote, I feel, pretty much sums up the whole operation. Whatever it takes, however far technology has brought the ability to dredge the sands of a barrel of oil, Synenco and Sinopec are going to profit at any level above $30, which is well below where oil stands now, and there's trillions of barrels of the shit in Canada sands alone. Rather beside the point, in Utah its becoming regular news that oil companies are digging in to mine the trillions of barrels of oil in oil shale there, and in Colorado. If these companies are going to dig in in Utah, then its got to be competitive with what's happening in Canada, market forces pretty much dictate that.<br><br>...trying to stay on track...<br><br>If anyone's interested to learn more, try googling 'oil shale' and 'oil sands', check out the news search results as well for recent developments. <br><br>So what it seems we have is the peak in conventional production being supplemented with now 'affordable' alternate productions. Mike Ruppert chooses to stay focused on the conventional production, which makes him, either wittingly or unwittingly, effective or not, a stooge of oil barons. Its generally a good thing to be convinced of your principles, however it seems dishonest to me that Mike Ruppert isn't presenting all this information that's readily available. Where there is lack of objectivity, I am deeply distrustful. <br><br>... I don't try to play fast and loose with the facts here, I just try to present enough that the curious have somewhere to look. Posts like this take a lot of time that I don't really have, otherwise it'd be more in depth. Should anyone really take my word for it anyway?<br><br>It seems curious that my comment would be attacked so forcefully in defense of a man admittedly an insider with CIA types and who is read by dozens of congressmen. Oh, and I just loved his dismissal of Gary Webb's 'suicide'.<br><br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Whose a stooge, whose facts are garbled?

Postby wolf pauli » Wed Jun 08, 2005 4:28 pm

<!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>So what it seems we have is the peak in conventional production being supplemented with now 'affordable' alternate productions. Mike Ruppert chooses to stay focused on the conventional production, which makes him, either wittingly or unwittingly, effective or not, a stooge of oil barons. Its generally a good thing to be convinced of your principles, however it seems dishonest to me that Mike Ruppert isn't presenting all this information that's readily available. Where there is lack of objectivity, I am deeply distrustful.</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--><br><br>Strange you should say that, because only yesterday Ruppert ran this article:<br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/060705_world_stories.shtml#0">www.fromthewilderness.com...es.shtml#0</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br>Scroll down to:<br><br>Oil: Caveat empty<br>By Alfred J. Cavallo<br><br>"... Only about 4 million barrels of oil per day from Canadian "oil sands" are projected by 2030, accounting for a mere 3.3 percent of the predicted total world demand of 120 million barrels per day. What explains this striking disconnection between the magnitude of the frontier resources and the minimal amount of projected oil production from them? Canadian "oil sands" are actually deposits of bitumen (tar), which are the result of conventional oil degradation by water and air. Tar sands are of a completely different character than conventional oil deposits; making tar sands usable is a capital-intensive venture that requires special procedures such as heating to separate the tar from the sand, mixing the tar with a diluting agent for pipeline transport, and constructing specially equipped refineries for processing.<br><br>The most serious constraint, though, is natural gas supplies. Production of oil from tar sands requires between 400 and 1,000 cubic feet of natural gas per barrel of oil produced, depending on the extraction method used. Natural gas production, despite a near doubling of drilling activity, is flat or decreasing both in Canada and in the United States--which has prompted prices to triple over the past few years. Given these high gas prices, it almost makes more sense just to sell the natural gas directly rather than use it to produce oil from tar sands. ..."<br><br>The prospects for "oil shale" are even worse (as noted by many authors) and are also discussed in this article.<br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Whose a stooge, whose facts are garbled?

Postby heath7 » Wed Jun 08, 2005 5:04 pm

<!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>Strange you should say that, because only yesterday Ruppert ran this article</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--><br><br>Is that article objective?<br><br>To his claim that 400 to 1000 cubic feet of natural gas is required to extract each barrel, I counter with Troy Hurtubise's Diet Coke concoction that supposedly draws the oil out of the sand:<br><br><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>Fire Suppressant Agent 333 (FSA 333 for short) was originally created as a means to put out difficult fires, such as oil fires. Naturally—because, after all, we’re talking about Troy Hurtubise here—Diet Coke is one of its main ingredients. When tested on an oil fire ignited in a tank of water, however, FSA 333 showed something unusual: not only did it successfully put out the fire, but it also drew the oil up to the top of the water. Wondering if this might be a beneficial property for cleaning up oil spills, Troy Hurtubise contacted a company in that business, but was informed that it was not so much the spills in open water which were troublesome, rather it was when the oil washed-up on open shoreline that it really became “a nightmare”. So our dauntless adventurer mixed some motor oil into a pail of beach sand. Then he mixed in some FSA 333 and a little cold water and “lo and behold, it separated the sand from the water and the oil. The oil actually floated to the top together with the FSA as a kind of sludge that you could pick off the top of the water with a Dixie cup. And clear water is what was left. Clear water."</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--><br><br><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>The experiment got Troy Hurtubise thinking about the Alberta Oil Sands. As his research would inform him: "They have enough oil down there to make the big OPEC blocks look stupid. They can supply us for a long, long, time. The trouble is they can only extract it using huge treatments of hot water and steam, and they need huge tailing ponds because of the dirty, toxic water that's a by-product. And I can do it with cold water that stays clean." Troy Hurtubise was so confident in his results he issued a public challenge to the oil industry. "I don't care who you've got, but bring a sample of tar sands down and bring whatever scientist you want and I will pop the oil right out of the sand in front of him," he said. "Five minutes with cold water. How do you like that, sweetheart? Then I'll scoop out some water from the demonstration and drink it. How's that for biodegradable?"<br><br>FSA 333, it seems, was also successful in extracting oil from shale stone, the largest deposits of which are located here in the United States. As local North Bay paper The Nugget reported, “through his network of contacts, [Troy] Hurtubise obtained several kilograms of shale rock, crushed it, heated it to about 200 F, added FSA and cold water, "and then BANG! You get this huge segment of oil on the top."”</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--><br><br><!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://deconsumption.typepad.com/deconsumption/2005/01/sometimes_you_e.html" target="top">...from a good story on a 21st century Edison</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--><br><br>I link Hurtubise's story because, in a fun way, it shows that there is more than one way to skin a cat. Let's not forget that its to the oil companies' advantage to hold off developing alternative technology as long as possible, keeping their oil all the more pricey.<br><br>For all we know, the 3.3% projection, in the article, for 2030 is based on the presumption among many that conventional oil drilling isn't drying up, and hence only 3% of the market share will need to be represented by oil sands in 2030. <br><br>Also, its hard for me to believe they can develop the sands for only $30/barrel while using 400 to 1000 cubic feet of natural gas/barrel. Who to believe?<br><br>P.S.- I'll go ahead and clarify my own position.<br><br> Because people who profit from being alarmist turn me off, I tend to believe that the oil is not running out (oversimplification). On the note that the oil is not running out, I'm a little disappointed because I do believe there are other, cleaner alternative energy sources that will be ignored for unabandoned, dirty oil. The omnipresent heat of the sun should be able to furnish all of our energy needs, the temperature of our inner planet should be able to contribute significantly, geo-magnetism, flowing water, blowing wind, cold fusion, etc.<br> <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p097.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=heath7>heath7</A> at: 6/8/05 3:35 pm<br></i>
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Troy Hurtubise ...

Postby wolf pauli » Wed Jun 08, 2005 5:53 pm

... claims easy, non-polluting extraction of oil from oil sands. When he supplies <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>proof of concept</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END-->, then we'll talk. In the mean time, let me tell you about my new Dr. Pepper-based method for transforming base metals to gold ...<br><br>As to "oil shale", we're told that <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>Hurtubise obtained several kilograms of shale rock, crushed it, heated it to about 200 F, added FSA and cold water, "and then BANG! You get this huge segment of oil on the top."</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--><br><br>"Oil", he says, but not <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>crude</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END-->. There is no crude in "oil shale", just the petro precursor <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>kerogen</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END-->. Since it is physically impossible to pyrolyze kerogen into the desired end-product without temperatures well in excess of 200F, Hurtubise must be talking about some hitherto undreamt of non-pyrolizing process. When he supplies <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>proof of concept</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END-->, then we'll talk. In the mean time, etc. etc.<br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Troy Hurtubise ...

Postby heath7 » Wed Jun 08, 2005 6:23 pm

You're no fun.<br><br>I used Hurtubise in entertaining jest, not that I don't believe his claims. I remain unconvinced of his claims. Reminds me, though, of how the intrepid Wright brothers bested the world's moneyed scientists in creating a flying vehicle.<br><br>It works out so well for the oil companies that they'd be the only practical interest in pursuing more efficient extraction technologies. <p></p><i></i>
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Shecky Green

Postby wolf pauli » Wed Jun 08, 2005 6:42 pm

<!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>You're no fun.</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--><br><br>Didn't like my Dr Pepper-based alchemy? Well, you're right, I'm no Shecky Green. <br><br>(Then again, I saw Shecky Green perform not long ago and found that <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>he's</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> no Shecky Green.)<br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Shecky Green

Postby heath7 » Wed Jun 08, 2005 6:58 pm

There is something magical about both Dr. Pepper and Shecky Green. <br><br><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>"I can't stop my leg."</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> <p></p><i></i>
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re: London's Planned Windfarm: Good idea, but ...

Postby Starman » Wed Jun 08, 2005 7:17 pm

What's the overall context and its potential to offest Peak Oil disruptions?<br><br>We're talking a five-percent shortfall between supply and demand that could cause the global economy to crash, with serious social disruptions and long-term dislocations.<br><br>Note too, this is a tentative plan, contingent on a lot of considerations, but aided in part by the growing (yet still tiny) public awareness, esp. among big Banks, financial Execs, social-planners, and citizen groups that Peak Oil is NOT just a lark, but something very real and portentious. Note too, the big energy cartels have positioned themselves for taking a dominant position in developing alternative energy systems -- they're among the only ones with enough economic and political clout to pull-off the enormous investments required. Tragically, these efforts are most likely to be too little, too late to avert tremendous upsets -- many of which we've already been seeing but remain oblivious to their link to the trend of declining oil production, typically seen in the scramble for resource supplies in contested third-world nations, esp. in Africa where 15 nations are currently involved in conflicts or dangerously-tense power-plays, where factions are used to 'blame' fighting resulting from resource exploitation. Much of the past 20 years of global strife, low-intensity conflicts,out-and-out wars, economic reorganization and privatization resulting from ruinous and coercive IMF/World Bank policies, millions of economic and political and environmental refugees, increasing debt-peonage, politically-facilitated disease pandemics, alarming child-mortality rates, increasing militarization of social, political and economic policies (as authentic 'democracy' and social justice institutions are subverted), 3rd-world inadequate medical-care to address common and readily-treated illnesses, 24,000 daily deaths from starvation (linked to agribusiness control of food production and loss of small-farm, local control of production resources) and related malnutrition and hunger -- all are closely linked to direct or secondary consequences of Peak Oil -- ie., we've been SEEING the crisis of Peak Oil unfolding before our eyes, and yet collectively are unable to either recognize what's happening or significantly address these issue via our political system (which tends to avoid upsetting the status-quo or materially changing the way things are -- thus, mass-media encourages public complacency and ignores controversial disclosures esp. that criticize the economic/political elites whose lack of vision, foresight and will (or particular self-interest involvement) have greatly caused or helped exacerbate the impending crisis. Thus, the disinformation and fabricated case for war (as well as inordinate 'National Security' secrecy)also helps shield those powerful cartels from being held accountable for not acting in a timely manner to address the Peak Oil issue.<br><br>But more to the point of this post re: wind farms as a viable alternative energy option:<br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/SecondPage.html">www.lifeaftertheoilcrash....dPage.html</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br>--excerpt--<br>III. Energy Intermittency:<br><br>In addition to suffering from poor energy-density and being largely inappropriate for transportation, solar and wind also suffer from energy intermittency. Unlike oil and gas, which can be used at anytime of the day or night, solar and wind are dependent on weather conditions. This may not be that big of a deal if you simply want to power your household appliances or a small scale, decentralized economy, but if you want to run an industrial economy that relies on airports, airplanes, 18-wheel trucks, millions of miles of highways, huge skyscrapers, 24/7 availability of fuel, etc., an intermittent source of energy will not suffice.<br><br>The energy produced from solar, wind, and other green alternatives can be stored in batteries, but battery technology is woefully inadequate for the scale of our problem. <br><br>IV. Percentage of Total Energy Supply:<br><br>Finally, most people new to this issue drastically overestimate the amount of energy we will be able to realistically derive from these sources inside of the next 5-25 years. <br><br>In 2003, the US consumed 98 quadrillion BTU's of energy. A whopping .171 quadrillion came from solar and wind combined. Do the math (.171/9<!--EZCODE EMOTICON START 8) --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/glasses.gif ALT="8)"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> and you will see that a total of less then one-sixth of one percent of our energy appetite was satisfied with solar and wind combined. Thus, just to derive a paltry 2-3 percent of our current energy needs from solar and wind, we would need to double the percentage of our energy supply derived from solar/wind, then double it again, then double it again, and then double it yet again.<br><br>Unfortunately, the odds of us upscaling our use of solar and wind to the point where they provide even just 2-3 percent of our total energy supply are about the same as the odds of Michael Moore and Dick Cheney teaming up to win a 5K relay race. Despite jaw-dropping levels of growth in these industries, coupled with practically miraculous drops in price per kilowatt hour (95% drop in two decades), along with increased interest from the public in alternative energies, the percentage of our total energy supply derived from solar and wind is projected to grow by only 10 percent per year. <br><br>Since we are starting with only one-sixth of one percent of our energy coming from solar and wind, a growth rate of 10 percent per year isn't going to do much to soften a national economic meltdown. Twenty-five years from now, we will be lucky if solar and wind account for one percent of our total energy supply.<br><br>While other alternative energy sources, such as wave and geothermal power, are fantastic sources of energy in and of themselves, they are incapable of replacing more than a fraction of our petroleum usage for the same reasons as solar and wind: they are nowhere near as energy dense as petroleum and they are inappropriate as transportation fuels. In addition, they are also limited by geography - wave power is only technically viable in coastal locations. Only a handful of nations, such as Iceland, have access to enough geothermal power to make up for much of their petroleum consumption.<br><br>This is by no means reason not to invest in these alternatives. We simply have to be realistic about what they can and can't do. On a household or village scale, they are certainly worthy investments. But to hope/expect they are going to power more than a small fraction of our forty-five trillion dollar per year (and growing) global industrial economy is woefully unrealistic.<br><br>On a related note, even if solar, wind, and other green alternatives could replace oil, we still wouldn't escape the evil clutches of so called "Big Oil." The biggest maker of solar panels is British Petroleum with Shell not too far behind. Similarly, the second biggest maker of wind turbines is General Electric, who obtained their wind turbine business from that stalwart of corporate social responsibility, Enron. As these examples illustrate, the notion that "Big Oil is scared of the immerging renewable energy market!" is silly. "Big Oil" already owns the renewable energy market.<br><br>******************<br>Food for thought;<br>Starman <p></p><i></i>
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really though

Postby human » Wed Jun 08, 2005 7:26 pm

i just think that the whole wind thing is cool.<br><br>its obviously not gonna replace oil.<br><br>although, we (earth) are spinning around fully once a day while flying through space around the sun at speeds that make me laugh when i think about it.....<br><br>must be some free energy there no?<br><br>food for thought <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :D --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/happy.gif ALT=":D"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <br><br>oen<br>human? <p></p><i></i>
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re: really though

Postby Starman » Wed Jun 08, 2005 7:54 pm

human wrote:<br><br>although, we (earth) are spinning around fully once a day while flying through space around the sun at speeds that make me laugh when i think about it.....<br><br>must be some free energy there no?<br><br>food for thought <br><br>***********<br>Oh MAN, YEAH!<br><br>Like, just the enormous electromagnetic potential of the cosmic-ray/electrons fields-of-force that is an integral part of the earth's dynamo-system. Do you recall the NASA spaceflight experiment (don't recall if it was part of one of the last moon-shots or a low-earth orbit flight) that trailed a long copper (IIRC) wire which created an enormous current-flow -- it's the same principle as running an iron-rod through a magnetic field as a generator -- the reverse of an electic motor. So that's a major potential source of electricity, perhaps beamed via microwaves to earth-recieving power-stations near major cities, or an as-yet-to-be-rediscovered wireless technology as per Tesla's discovery -- OR to power an electromagnetic elevator to access low-earth orbit instead of immensely-costly and complex rockets.<br><br>Or, how about huge wind-turbines tethered some 10 miles up to make use of the hundred-plus MPH jet-stream? Other novel ideas (terrestrial based), -- as whenever there's any kind of system-state differential, ie., pressure or temperature, there's an energy-source potential, as in deep-sea temperature-driven generators, or volcanoes, even pressure-driven hot-oil from deep-wells.<br><br>Hey -- that reminds me -- Have you (or anyone else) ever looked at some of the more bizarre alternative energy sites, re: esp. a device that reputedly was the size of a lunchboc that powered a Puget-sound Tugboat for three days or a week, back in the 30s or so (it's been a while since I read this). As I recall, L. Ron Hubbard was supposed to have been involved in inventing or developing a novel energy-motor type device too. Quite a few tantalyzing suggestions of remarkable inventions that have since disappeared, presumably bought-up by energy-cartels perhaps, to keep them off the market? Who Knows ...<br><br>Later;<br>Starman <p></p><i></i>
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po

Postby wintler » Thu Jun 09, 2005 5:28 am

Interesting to see the effort going into defaming both Ruppert & peak oil on this board, where i thought open minds and keen eyes for EVIDENCE were de rigeur. <br><br>Until those supporting the US Govt/Wall Street version of reality (plenty forever &/or the Market will save us) provide some evidence, not just statistical fiddles and rhetoric (USGS 2000, EIA Outlooks etc), then the depletionists have the scientific high ground.<br><br>Do keep up the "we're limitless beings of spirit" stuff tho, I need the laughs. <p></p><i></i>
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A serious point being missed

Postby Prac » Thu Jun 09, 2005 7:34 am

Its odd but proponents on both sides of the Peak Oil debate are missing a crucial and fundamental point. <br><br>That is that whether or not the reasons for crude oil price movements are fabrications by TPTB (or Oil companies that profit mightily when prices rise), consumers of energy suffer loss.<br><br>The point is that it is money made out of oil fueled technologies that has shaped our world, making it progressively more oil dependent. This process has been so all pervasive that every oil price rise since the 1940's has been followed by recession with energy consuming firms experiencing reduced earnings, many to the point of bankrupcy.<br><br>It doesn't matter whether Peak Oil is yet another fabrication, or not.<br><br>What does matter is that the crude oil price is unlikely the go down. Recession is upon us and the Global economy is highly vulnerable.<br>Bastions of US Industry such as General Motors and Ford are said to be technically bankrupt.<br><br>It is common to hear that the course of events are shaped by economic forces, yet in our rush to condemn Oil Companies and TPTB for self serving price manipulation, or to draw out the implications of Peak Oil, the fact is that the price rises have recessionary impacts.<br><br>The whole Peak Oil debate is a smokescreen, like the Global Warming debate to hide from view this important link of two dots, oil price movements and the state of the Economy.<br><br>Both Ruppert and his detractors, the Left and the Right, shy away from this link.<br><br>I wonder why. <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p097.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=prac@rigorousintuition>Prac</A> at: 6/9/05 7:23 am<br></i>
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