Calling all Canucks .... a place to cross your fingers.

[greencrow0]

I went out to vote.<br><br>The local polling station was quiet with just a few voters. I took a real good look at the ballot box. Yep, unlike in the old days, the padlocked metal boxes have been replaced by flimsy cardboard boxes. All the edges have been sealed with tape, however so you would know if they have been breached prior to the official count.<br><br>But what about after the count? Does the electoral officer seal all the edges of the ballot boxes again? This is the key question. You simply cannot trust those in power to stay away from ballot boxes in ridings where there will be a recount.<br><br>I have a feeling it will all come down to about 10 or 15 ridings were the difference is under 1000 and there's a recount. It is those ridings where the fraud will happen. <br><br> <p></p><i></i>

[greencrow0]

<!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1137970209966&call_pageid=974089105216&col=974089088220">www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs...4089088220</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br>This is a very good analysis of what's wrong with the Cdn electoral system. <p></p><i></i>

[greencrow0]

Well, the election is over.<br><br>Another minority government, this time a very anemic conservative government.<br><br>The good news is that the NDP went up by at least 10 seats...not quite the balance of power....<br><br>but then Canadians have made sure that nobody is going to be very powerful in this upcoming government.<br><br>What will happen?<br><br>the Liberals will likely get a newer, younger leader.<br><br>The tories will entrench themselves with the Mainstream Media going along as their permanent cheerleaders.<br><br>Nobody really won this election.<br><br>I still have grave doubts about the electoral system in Canada...I still think there will be some chicanery over the closer races.<br><br>It does not serve the nation very well to have an electoral black hole in Quebec.<br><br>Till next time, adieu.<br><br>GC<br><br> <p></p><i></i>

[havanagila]

can you explain the results to lay people ? <br>namely - do the conservatives need to form a coalition to have a majority ? <br>what is the connection bn these elections and the privincial ones ?<br> --<br>Andrea Bronfman killed/run down by car near her home in NYC...just saw that. any parapolitics ?<br> <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=havanagila>havanagila</A> at: 1/24/06 2:08 am<br></i>

[greencrow0]

Re: The Winners? Everyone and No One.<br>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br> <!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>can you explain the results to lay people ?<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--> <br>I'll try<br><br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>namely - do the conservatives need to form a coalition to have a majority ?<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--> <br><br>The conservatives do not need to form a formal coalition to govern. Harper is the PM and he forms a cabinet and they meet and plan legislation and take it to parliament where it is either passed or defeated.<br><br>Only when it is a 'matter of confidence' does the PM have to have a coalition. A matter of confidence would include any money bills and/or anything that the government says is a matter of confidence...such as outlawing gay marriages or some such hot button issue.<br><br>So Harper will plan his legislation and then get on the phone and call around and see what other leader he can get to support it. He won't have to have everyone on board, just a majority in the House of Commons. This can go on for a year or so but not usually more because all the legislation will have to cater to the other parties who will demand changes...and then they'll go to the press and say: "Look at how powerful WE are, we forced the government to do such and such."<br><br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>what is the connection bn these elections and the privincial ones ?<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END-->--<br><br>None really. All the provinces have their houses of parliament called 'legislatures' and they pass their own provincial laws and have their own parties. BUT usually the people who are active in the federal parties are also active in the provincial equivalent...like me and the NDP. I used to work for the NDP federally and provincially. So the more supporters and campaign workers you have in a province, the stronger federal campaign you can run in that province.<br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Andrea Bronfman killed/run down by car near her home in NYC...just saw that. any parapolitics ?<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>The Bronfmans were a very wealthy family in Montreal before they and their money moved to New York. The big scandal revolving around the Bronfmans is that they took their money out of the country without having to pay tax on it, thus depriving Revenue Canada of kabillions of dollars...a sweetheart deal signed by Pierre Eliott Trudeau. This was an illegal deal...and you and I would not be allowed to take out money out of the country like that.<br><br>But, no, Andrea Bronfman's death does not having anything to do with Canada. That family is American now.<br><br>Edited by: havanagila at: 1/24/06 2:08 am <p></p><i></i>

[havanagila]

thanks gc...i wasn't even expecting a response to such basic questions. Do you mean ALL the Bronfmans relocated ? <br>---<br>Your government structure is unique in NOT having to form a majority coalition...i don't know it exists elsewhere. it leaves more room for surprises.<br>one last "green" question - I read the Bloc definition in Wikipedia, i think it makes more sense to me now, but do these people REALLY want autonomy ? how are the relations on a routine basis ? it is bizarre. but they seem to be "on the correct side" re socialism, even more than NDP - do you have personal contacts, friends, who are Quebecois, or is it rare? <br>--<br>---<br>last note. i think it was important for the BUSHIES to have some friends in canada's government because of the Iran war. canada could be more involved than it wishes to, because of the fairly large immigrant community you have over there. I don't think the warmongers are willing to let this enclave of "free action" in north america, survive unchecked and un monitored, and possibly used for that war. there's too much spying going over there, by all parties.<br>while canada barely escaped Iraq, you might not be able to do that with the war of attrition against Iran. welcome aboard.<br>--<br>but I am sure this is a temporary victory for conservatives, just a hunch, but it all depends on Washington too. <br><br><br><br><br> <p></p><i></i>

[marykmusic]

The border between Canada and the US will be tightened up, says MSNBC. This is considered important over on the US side, because Canada was so sympathetic to war protesters during the 'Nam war. --MaryK <p></p><i></i>

[sunny]

_______________________________________________<br>Andrea Bronfman killed/run down by car near her home in NYC...just saw that. any parapolitics ?________________________________________________<br><br>Wasn't it a young woman named Bronfman who ran over and killed someone outside a nightclub some years ago, either in the Hamptons or on Martha's Vineyard? Got away with it completely, if I recall correctly. <p></p><i></i>

[greencrow0]

Harper only got 37% of the vote. Over 60% voted otherwise. <br><br>The RumoUr is that the NDP and Liberals will merge under Jack Layton which will give the new party, say....132 seats. <br><br>Now, wouldn't that be an interesting scenario. They would then vote the Conservatives out in a 'Non Confidence' vote and so on.... <p></p><i></i>

[havanagila]

actually, that's why I don't understand the system you have. What prevents from your rumour to happen tomorrow ? is there a limitation on confidence votes ? in terms of time ?<br>---<br>Actually, what interest do the liberals/NDP have in maintaining the results, both are left of conservatives ? (and the Bloc, too). Something is weird in this system of no coalition.<br><br>however, merger of NDP/LIberals doesn't sound good in the long run, you will have eventually a bi partisan fake system like all the rest of the world. <p></p><i></i>

[greencrow0]

What prevents the RumoUr from happening is resistance in both the Liberals and NDP. There are a lot of right wingers in the Liberals and a lot of far lefties in the NDP...but that could be overcome.<br><br>What a coalition of Liberals and NDP might do is force the conservatives into a coalition with the Bloc. Don't laugh...this is exactly what happened in the 80's. The Mulroney neoConservatives formed a coalition with Quebec separatists and ran the country for nearly a decade....ran it almost into the ground economically and constitutionally...they were finally defeated so badly they only had two seats...which shows how short memories votiers have...to vote the same group back so soon.<br><br>Yes, if the Liberals and NDP joined...the Bloc would form a 'marriage of convenience' with the Conservatives to keep the minority government in power long enough to tear Canada apart again...this time perhaps forever.<br><br>Let the Games begin!<br><br> <p></p><i></i>

[greencrow0]

I see that Frank McKenna former PM of New Brunswick and now Ambassador to Washington has set his sights on the Leadership of the Liberal Party. He quit his post today to come back to Canada to run.<br><br><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>This is NOT good news.</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><br><br>Frank McKenna is a charter puppet of the Carlyle Group and even hosted a gathering of them when they came to NB. He is a right wing puppet in lamb's clothing. Having him on the one hand and Harper on the other hand would be no choice at all...just like the Bushies want. A rightie vs a rightie.<br><br>The best and most obvious solution is for the Liberals and the NDP to merge and have an open leadership race. I bet Layton would win it hands down over McKenna....after all, he is a true liberal and not just a poseur...like McKenna. <p></p><i></i>

[havanagila]

i am sorry about your election results, it is strange though that clearly ALL the other parties are left to center yet the conservatives are leading. It seems like that "virus" of bushism is always finding the vulnerabilities of systems, and exploits them (a bit like trickster...). i think this is the clear sign that you are joining the madness all over, namely, when ALL the people bitch about it, yet THEY win elections. then you start having weird things happening...which deepen the gap between reality and the way it is reflected in media, they want to make us all mad. i find that the only approach is to keep a distance, namely, step even further from "politics", and just become very mindful of your own life, surrounding, the little things for they become big. other than that...give up the struggle to "expose". or just make room for it, in a ritual way, like a board or something, but not in your daily life.<br>--<br>I just watched "ghost dog" by Jarmush (very recommended). there is some quote there from "the samurai's way" - big things should be treated lightly; small things are important to the samurai and should be handled seriously". (sort of). <br>--<br>What we really need is a new transformation group...a movement...with a different focus, not "anti war, anti bush"...pro what ? sanity ? solidarity, I am sure, but how.<br>---<br><br>In Israel, the latest "hip response" in the radical left is to become political, namely, to join the game, make dirty deals and step IN. I don't know, I feel it is premature. But one board I participate in, has kind of "launched" two new candidates to the parliament, no, three actually, I wonder what will happen to them in the "big game". BTW, germany did same, the left party had elected and brought in the parliament several radical left activists, straight "from the gutters", like unemployed, single mothers, etc. etc. They drown in the "big picture", BUT - 1/ they have good salaries as opposed to being poor and marginalized 2/ they are learning the game, so maybe in the future they will be effective.. <br>What do you feel about "good people" going INTO politics NOW of all times, to offset the Harperism and cynicism ? is it idiotic ? <br>--<br>I tend to think that in a totally corrupt political system one should step back in order to preserve the principles and get ready for the next move, when the right tmie comes. if it comes.<br><br><br> <p></p><i></i>

[greencrow0]

Your post rings very true to me, havanagila, truer that a lot of things I have read lately.<br><br>You understand what happened in the recent Canadian election very clearly...and your comparison with what is going on worldwide re 'sanity'--is spot on.<br><br>Thanks for this post. I will read it a couple of times and comment on it again, as it deserves at least two or three readings.<br><br>GC <p></p><i></i>