Bobby Kennedy Jr. Questions 2004 election in article

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Bobby Kennedy Jr. Questions 2004 election in article

Postby greencrow0 » Wed May 31, 2006 10:00 pm

<!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.bradblog.com/archives/00002891.htm">www.bradblog.com/archives/00002891.htm</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br>Tomorrow's edition of the Rolling Stone Magazine will carry an article by RFK jr., saying that an investigation has shown the Ohio election to have been stolen by 'the highest levels of the WH.<br><br>If this pans out, it could be the first sighting of a spinal cord amongst the Dems in years. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Bobby Kennedy Jr. Questions 2004 election in article

Postby steve vegas » Wed May 31, 2006 10:38 pm

I was just going to post this link. I'm very cynical about the whole thing, but ecstatic at the same time. This is great news, Rolling Stone is soooo mainstream, this, one would hope, will at last/at least give the great unwashed something to hang an argument on, and maybe even open some eyes.<br><br>I'm cynical because I'm starting to think that this voting machine/fraud issue may be in the midst of a hijack. If the bad guys shape the debate and point us in a particular direction or toward a particular solution we will inevitably be the losers. If the fascists have their way they will introduce a fake solution that seems to address the problem but still benefits them. Then they can say "see, we already took care of that". I think the 2002 Voter Protection(?) Act may have been the first attempt.<br><br>I'm not calling Bobby Jr. a bad guy, I tend to like him and his issues/causes. I'm sure there are many here that can burst my bubble about him, but I'll probably still like the guy. I'm mainly just excited that the issue is going to get such wide exposure and from somebody who, I think, will seem like a credible source. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Bobby Kennedy Jr. Questions 2004 election in article

Postby greencrow0 » Wed May 31, 2006 11:37 pm

Steve:<br><br>The psy ops boyz seem to be working overtime, as of late with the MacBeth caper, the False Indictment scam re Cheney and perhaps even that Andrew Grove revelation....<br><br>Who knows anymore what's real and what's 'virtual'.<br><br>As we were saying re Grove...there are so many layers of truth and lies that to identify the culprits now, may never be possible.<br><br>Or......<br><br>One can always hope. <p></p><i></i>
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Poor Bobby won't get invited on NPR anymore.

Postby yesferatu » Wed May 31, 2006 11:58 pm

Gatekeeper Radio aka NPR had him on every now and then.<br><br>In the article Kerry says "Can I draw a conclusion that they played tough games and clearly had intent to reduce the level of our vote? Yes, absolutely. Can I tell you to a certainty that it made the difference in the election? I can't. There's no way for me to do that. If I could have done that, then obviously I would have found some legal recourse."<br><br>Jesus shutup already. So much wrong and preposterous in that statement.<br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Poor Bobby won't get invited on NPR anymore.

Postby sunny » Thu Jun 01, 2006 12:10 am

If this does not cause a stink about the theft of the election, nothing will.<br>This ain't about Kerry, tho he should live in shame for the rest of his life.<br>This is about integrity. If this had happened to a Repub candidate, I would feel the same.<br>The fact that Repubs do not feel this way is the single most telling aspect of their character. <p></p><i></i>
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Bag of Bones

Postby greencrow0 » Thu Jun 01, 2006 12:39 am

Kerry should know it's not about stealing enough of the vote to change the outcome of the election.<br><br>It's about stealing even ONE vote. If they stole EVEN ONE VOTE they are just as culpable as if they stole the election...<br><br>and should be brought to justice.<br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Poor Bobby won't get invited on NPR anymore.

Postby StarmanSkye » Thu Jun 01, 2006 1:18 am

Sunny said:<br>"If this does not cause a stink about the theft of the election, nothing will.<br>This ain't about Kerry, tho he should live in shame for the rest of his life.<br>This is about integrity. If this had happened to a Repub candidate, I would feel the same.<br>The fact that Repubs do not feel this way is the single most telling aspect of their character."<br><br>YESSSS!!!! Absolutely! That's THE iue, right there -- it' NOT about Repubs v Dems, which is what SO many people get bogged-down by, as IF anyone with any integrity would approve vote-fraud if the Kerry or Gore camp had done it. Fraud just leads to bigger and more horrendous abuses as the layers of lies and corruption require ever-bigger crimes to cover them up. That's the legacy of some five decades of crimes by the plutocracy which has led us to the present moment of illegitimacy and constitutional crisis.<br> <br>greencrow said:<br>"Kerry should know it's not about stealing enough of the vote to change the outcome of the election.<br><br>It's about stealing even ONE vote. If they stole EVEN ONE VOTE they are just as culpable as if they stole the election...<br><br>and should be brought to justice.<br> <br>*****<br>And again, right ON.<br>Fer cripes sake, Las Vegas casinos have a thousand times better security to prevent cheats than our 'leaders' expend on guaranteeing the integrity of our votes,<br><br>Shows where the REAL interests of the ruling elites are -- They're even passing laws to make voting an even bigger hassle than it already is, while the real tragicomic farce is that no-trail electronic voting already counts about 80 percent of our votes, now shown to be riffled with security issues.<br><br>Why in HELL don't we bust the whole ugly lot of crooks who have stolen our votes????<br><br>Remember the guff people got who questioned the appearance of fraud during the last several elections?<br><br>20 year prison sentences would STILL be too kind to those who would undermine American democracy ... The Bastards.<br>Starman<br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Poor Bobby won't get invited on NPR anymore.

Postby bvonahsen » Thu Jun 01, 2006 4:22 am

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Fer cripes sake, Las Vegas casinos have a thousand times better security to prevent cheats than our 'leaders' expend on guaranteeing the integrity of our votes,<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>And that is because elections have always been "cooked". Your bank's ATM has better security. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Poor Bobby won't get invited on NPR anymore.

Postby chiggerbit » Thu Jun 01, 2006 6:10 pm

Kerry said: <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>Can I tell you to a certainty that it made the difference in the election? I can't. <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>There's no way for me to do that.</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> If I could have done that, then obviously I would have found some legal recourse."</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--><br><br><br>Did Kerry even have to go that far, did he even need to make any statement that there was fraud? Couldn't he have simply NOT conceded? That's all, not conceded, let the election takes its course from there? Was it his job to prove up the results? Hadn't he promised the voters that their votes WOULD be counted, then the day comes, and he caves, immediately caves. I'm sure he would still have "lost", but at least there would have been a great big spotlight on the irregularities for future reference. By caving so weakly and quickly, it was as if he were tacitly acknowledging that the election count was "proper". What a wienie. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Poor Bobby won't get invited on NPR anymore.

Postby Dreams End » Thu Jun 01, 2006 6:50 pm

Anybody else get nervous that it's a Kennedy taking on the Bushes? That hasn't gone well in the past. PTB or not, Kennedies do tend to get assassinated. <br><br>So, I think there are genuine factions in the elite power structure...or else the Bushistas were allowed to be bad cop for awhile and now it's time to bring in good cop. Either, way, it's a game with consequences. JFK was no flaming radical...but he was shot just as dead. Ditto other Kennedy's. <br><br>It makes more sense, ultimately, from an elite perspective to keep a sort of "friendly fascism" in play, rather than the more blatant kind Bushco is offering. No need to crack down on rebellion if no one sees a reason to rebel. So we will embrace this changing of the guard (dont' get me wrong...I would love to see Bush impeached, etc) but can we do so without blinders? Can we remember that the Dems ALWAYS embrace populist/progressive and even slightly oppositional stances only to sell out those stances when they have the slightest chance. Sure, we have a better chance of holding their feet to the fire, and certain sorts of important matters, like the courts and various social policies will benefit, but the aggressive, world-dominating strategy will continue. It'll just look a little different. <br><br>The clue, of course, as others have noted, is the LACK of opposition right off the bat...(though I admit, John Edwards looked genuinely baffled at the woosie Kerry concession speech). One interpretation...a mainstream one, is that they are timid and "cowed" by the Republicans and the support for the "war on terror" so they won't act. I guess that's possible. But really, it seems more to me like either Bush has served his purpose or else he actually did stray a bit from the agreed upon script. "Wait a second, Lefty, we said youse guys could have the east side and WE would take the South side...what are your boys doing in our territory???"<br><br>Now that the ugly business of destroying two countries is over, the Dems can come in with clean hands (despite supporting the wars) and return America to the beacon of democracy and human rights it has always been till those evil neocons took over. <br><br>It's a subtle bit of politics. It doesn't mean I like neocons to say this...but who bombed Yugoslavia? Who cut all kinds of social programs while out "willie Hortoning" George Bush with his Sister Souljah speech? Whose v.p. had 8 years to promote his environmental agenda as laid out in a book, only to lay it aside until the last year or so? Who laid out the Terrorism and Effective Death penalty act upon which Patriot Act was based? Who represents the effort of the business classes and the DLC to rid the Dems of anything resembling a progressive left? Who brought us NAFTA? All the pre-Bush administration...name escapes me though.<br><br>And watch the pundits read from their script about how to get back in power the Dems must move to the center. It has started already. Ballocks. <br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Poor Bobby won't get invited on NPR anymore.

Postby chiggerbit » Thu Jun 01, 2006 7:18 pm

I wonder if this is why Wellstone is dead. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Bobby Kennedy Jr. Questions 2004 election in article

Postby HMKGrey » Thu Jun 01, 2006 7:30 pm

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>The psy ops boyz seem to be working overtime, as of late with the MacBeth caper, the False Indictment scam re Cheney and perhaps even that Andrew Grove revelation....<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>Conversely, we might say that the Bush ship has been taking on a lot of water from normally complicit and silent parties recently. Maybe it is psy ops but <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>against</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> Bush and co by a few decent sorts close to the PTB who're starting to realize that they've backed a cabal of psychopaths who will stop at nothing? <br><br>I can dream... but history does teach us that most despots are brought down by their own over reaching... <p></p><i></i>
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Guardian UK Article Today

Postby HMKGrey » Thu Jun 01, 2006 8:54 pm

        <br>Comment<br><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>It will be a verdict on Bush and it looks bad. Very bad.<br><br>Armageddon is forecast for the Grand Old Party this November. But political eruptions are inherently unpredictable</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><br><br>Martin Kettle<br>Wednesday May 31, 2006<br>The Guardian<br><br>In the history of editorial boo-boos, few can out-goof the Chicago Daily Tribune's "Dewey Defeats Truman" front page in November 1948. That classic humiliation is imprinted on the collective journalistic psyche, not just because a major paper miscalled a presidential election on the night - which might even have been forgotten in time - but because in St Louis the next day it was gleefully held aloft by the victorious Harry Truman for the photographers, and thus for history.<br><br>Article continues<br>Still, this cautionary tale seems a prudent preliminary to reporting what I discovered in Washington last week. In America's capital, the political class is gearing up for a stunning reverse for George Bush's Republicans in the midterm elections this November. Yes, these experts may all be wrong - it has happened before - but at the moment the facts supporting their view are overwhelming. As the political analyst Charlie Cook puts it: "It's bad. It's very bad. All the diagnostic indicators suggest that 2006 will be Armageddon for the Republicans. The only good news for the party is that it is five months away."<br><br>It is important to be clear that what Cook calls the diagnostic indicators of Republican decline extend far beyond the president's own lamentable approval ratings, currently in the low 30s. This is normally the only polling yardstick to attract any notice in Europe. But American politics are more subtle, various and, above all, local than that. Yet here the rot goes much further.<br><br>In four polls over the last month, for example, Americans have been asked whether they think the country is, overall, heading in the right or the wrong direction. Normally this is a good general guide to the political health of the incumbent president's party. Yet in each case less than a third of Americans have answered "the right direction", while more than two-thirds have said "wrong track". A volcanologist would say that this is eruption territory.<br><br>When American voters are asked whether they approve or disapprove of the job that the Congress (currently Republican-controlled but not the president's puppet) is doing, the result backs this up. Congress approval rates ranged between 23% and 33% in seven recent national polls; disapproval ranged from 52% to 70%. American election lore has it that when Congress's approval rating hits 40%, the ruling party can expect to lose about five seats in the 435-seat House of Representatives. Well, the latest poll has Congressional approval at 27%. "We've got a category four or five hurricane shaping up for November," predicts Thomas Mann at the Brookings Institution. "The question is whether the levees will hold."<br><br>Mann reckons that 50 to 60 Republican seats could be in play this time as things stand. Given the extent to which American electoral districting is gerrymandered to favour incumbents, that would amount to a cultural revolution. Clearly the Democrats would be big winners, overturning the current Republican majority of 27. Yet it might be more sensible to see any landslide more as a rejection of the Republicans. It would mark the end of a dozen years of Republican dominance in the House that began with Newt Gingrich's rightwing revolution in 1994. Ironically, though, many of the losses would be among the few remaining Republican moderates.<br><br>No one I spoke to thinks that the Republicans are as liable to lose the 100-seat Senate as the House. For that to happen, the Democrats would have to hold all their Senate seats - not an inevitability - and then capture six new ones from the Republicans, including one in increasingly hard-to-win Tennessee (where the Democratic candidate is the charismatic African-American Harold Ford), while relying on the likely independent socialist winner from Vermont, Bernie Sanders, to take them to 51. In the Senate races, as in the presidential election of 2004, the hardest pounding will be in the big swing states such as Ohio, Missouri and Pennsylvania.<br><br>It can be dangerous to treat midterm elections as a verdict on the president. Yet few are in doubt that Bush is the central figure in this campaign and Iraq the central issue. At the start of 2005 he told the Washington Post that he had had his "accountability moment" on Iraq and had been re-elected. But that was wishful thinking. He now faces the potent combination of continuing Democratic anger over the war and mounting Republican disillusion. His approval ratings are much worse than the lows of all late-20th-century second-term presidents except Richard Nixon - and he had to resign with two and a half years to run. Bush and Karl Rove will try to cast November 2006 as a contest between two visions of America, but these elections are shaping up to be a classic referendum. Even Gingrich recently let slip the view that the Democrats should campaign on the slogan: "Had enough?"<br><br>If that is right, and Americans really have had enough, then two things are likely to follow after November. The first will be the increasing isolation of a politically weakened president, while the second will be that 2008 will mark a new chapter. The anger that is carrying the Democrats to victory in 2006 will not do the same business in two years' time.<br><br>But don't forget Truman. In a desk drawer I have a copy of a heartfelt but prudently unpublished Guardian editorial I penned in the early evening of November 2 2004 under the simple but, as it seemed at the time, eloquently restrained headline "President Kerry". I reread it sometimes, as a reminder that election day is still a long way off.<br><br>martin.kettle@guardian.co.uk<br><br>======================<br><br>Hmmmm... let's see Rove dig his dark master out of this one. <br><br>Rememebr those post-election night 04 stories of how the Bush clan, assembled at the WH, were completely and horribly sombre and strange watching the results come in and then Rove turned up saying he had 'his own' <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>new numbers</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> and that were more reliable than the opinion polls and it was all smiles thereafter? <br><br>Of course, the MSM played along with this ridiculousness.<br><br>I guess we should prepare ourselves for lots of CNN stories about a) how opinion polls are crap and b) how research and statistics are nonsense too over the coming months as they prepare the way for another 'stunner' in November. <br><br>Wanna bet? <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Guardian UK Article Today

Postby chiggerbit » Thu Jun 01, 2006 9:33 pm

I'm not at all optimistic about the poll numbers. Americans may greatly disapprove of Congress in general, but they tend to like their own Senators and Representatives. This is very significant:<br><br><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>It would mark the end of a dozen years of Republican dominance in the House that began with Newt Gingrich's rightwing revolution in 1994. <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>Ironically, though, many of the losses would be among the few remaining Republican moderates.</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--></em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--><br><br>These moderates are not going to be punished nearly as severely as the more right-radicals would be if they were up for re-election in this cycle. And if we are counting on Missouri for a change, don't bother. Outside of the metropolitan areas, those voters are about as red as you can get. <br><br>I just don't think there are going to be as many changes in 06 as most of us hope. For one thing, too many Repuglycans are unhappy with their politicians because they aren't radical enough. Yeah, they threaten to stay at home and not vote, but my guess is that, at the last minute, they will vote...for their Repuglycan. And if we still have a few Dem Congresspeople taking their turn at voting along with the Repug majority, nothing much has changed at all. I think that the most that we can hope for is that the most rotten, who also have been among the most powerful, get booted, and the real, behind-the-curtains power balance that results from that change of power dynamics makes its adjustment in favor of a more rational government. <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=chiggerbit@rigorousintuition>chiggerbit</A> at: 6/1/06 7:45 pm<br></i>
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Re: Bobby Kennedy Jr. Questions 2004 election in article

Postby dugoboy » Thu Jun 01, 2006 9:55 pm

sorry for a little self advertising but go to this thread for what i was thinking on this:<br><br><!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://p216.ezboard.com/frigorousintuitionfrm10.showMessage?topicID=4568.topic" target="top"><!--EZCODE UNDERLINE START--><span style="text-decoration:underline">p216.ezboard.com/frigorousintuitionfrm10.showMessage?topicID=4568.topic</span><!--EZCODE UNDERLINE END--></a><!--EZCODE LINK END--><br><br>i'll repost some of what i said:<br><br>-i have a feeling kennedy jr's exposure of voter fraud in ohio is just a ploy to make it appear liberals will fix the voting system when in fact they will offer a non solution.<br><br>-the PTB aren't all on the same page because they are various factions. <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>the kennedys are part of the PTB and this is a card they can play against the neocons.</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> and maybe this is one big card they can play to thwart a manufactured war with iran because i'm not quite sure they want one. and its also true they couldnt of 'silenced' robert jr or rather they havn't had the chance too.<br><br>-i just saw on CNN 6 UN countries came up with an entrapment plan for Iran by saying do what we want and get rid of your nuclear energy project or they will sanction them. i dunno what to make of this. <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>but isn't it interesting the kennedy article comes out the same day the iran 'agreement' comes out?</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><br><br>-the neo cons were put in power to get the 'dirty work' done whether they know it or not. they are complicitly involved with the dismantling of america in every way from 911 to the PATRIOT ACT to trillion dollar wars to 10 trillion dollar tax cuts (to starve the government of financial resources) to the devaluation of the dollar to economically crippling gas prices to the stand down of FEMA after the levees were blown after hurricane katrina to raise the death rate and to hire mercenaries to grab the guns from the citizenry because of a disproven hoax of snipers shooting at police. <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>the bush administration is an agent provacteur made to create chaos. neo cons are destroying america by doing the dirty work of constructing a proto-fascist state and they (neo cons) will and are taking the fall for it.</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> a problem that democrats in 2006 and 2008 will promptly provide to the gullible masses a fuzzy little solution to our problems by delivering us another war (all indicators point to yes) and whatever else half promises can be made (pushing for a UN world government and draconian 'environmental protection' laws because of increasing natural disasters like hurricanes, earthquakes, tsunamis and weather modification).<br><br>- no i'm not a 'wingnut'<br><br>-i'm quite sure the environmentalism gore and kennedy jr use as their pet projects will be used by the democrats as the way into fascism. <p>___________________________________________<br>"BUSHCO aren't incompetent...they are COMPLICIT."</p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=dugoboy@rigorousintuition>dugoboy</A> at: 6/1/06 8:01 pm<br></i>
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