solar system very lively

by **smiths** » Tue Aug 30, 2005 3:29 am

i have just spent about an hour looking at photos of chemtrails and reading scott's thoughts on them at weather wars when i moved onto the space section. am utterly mystified. either scott is playing with his images, or the images have strange abberations in them or, something very fucking weird is going out there, i mean, forget katrina, chemtrails and the new world order it looks through the prism of these images so much bigger and stranger <a href="http://www.weatherwars.info/soho.htm">www.weatherwars.info/soho.htm</a> any thoughts

by **rain** » Tue Aug 30, 2005 4:51 am

hey smiths. I'm trying to remember what it was like before the advent of the internet. well, there were things one just didn't speak about. not that it's much different now. it's only 'weird' if it's all news to you, although admittedly it's a lot busier, and probably will become moreso. but then I could refer you to dot paintings with titles like 'visitors at Christmas Creek', or tell you a funny story about the 'balloon' fiasco in Alice Springs. and it's not like the 'locals' down south here didn't say where Biame was from. even if one doesn't bother with one's own 'memory' or 'intuitions', the stories are all over the planet. so why does the so inaptly named modern 'hu man' balk?

by **smiths** » Tue Aug 30, 2005 6:16 am

so why does the so inaptly named modern 'hu man' balk? because everything i had learnt up to a fairly recent point in my life had convinced me that like god, alien visitation was possible but very very very unlikely. i had always considered alien existence at points in time and space very likely, but felt that given the timeframes and distances involved the idea that we would be visited within our short technological era was absurd and amounted to nothing more than egotism, somehow we are important or relevant enough to be visited. the fact that there are thousands of stories of all sort of 'events' across cultures and centuries means nothing to me. no more than the repeated cultural manifestations of god or gods across time and geography mean anything to me. in reality the range and nature of the multitude of 'god' stories through time only serves to discredit the entire idea in my opinion. i have been around long enough to understand that people see a whole lot of things that dont exist for all manner of reasons and i have also taken enough acid and mushrooms to conclude that the perception of the world we get through our eyes may not necassarily be entirely accurate, i for one believe that solid matter is nowhere near as solid as it appears and is a lot more fuzzy in reality. that is not to say that i dont find some ufo stories very interesting, i have just always erred on the side of scepticism. but the stuff from the soho observatory is frankly mindblowing is it not?

by **Sokolova** » Tue Aug 30, 2005 10:04 am

but not for the reason they intended. What's scary is the sheer mind-boggling insanity of the whole thing. Sorry, but the website is horse shit. What's worse? The link to the highly <a href="http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/1999/jan/m25-001.shtml">dubious[ </a>Hoagland's site that plugs 'etheric' dimensions and 'pyramids' on Mars that are 'proved' with dodgy pics? ( see more about that <a href="http://irupert.com/mars/hoaxland.html">here </a>) or those mad pics of 'antennae' and 'craft' shuttling people to the sun to 'work'? Or the idea that since 1975 the US weather was being engineered by the Russians? Okay we need to be open - but that doesn't mean we need to be gullible idiots! What's really scary is the way this phases almost imperceptibly into 'mainstream' stuff. Hoagland's site about 'etheric' dimensions blends into a piece about the movie The Day After Tomorrow (which never even tried to pretend to be scientific), and the observation that a supposedly credible pro-global-warming scientist is claiming this movie has helped him get more media attention. So that's the measure of science now? Shouldn't it be accuracy? rigour? Some stuff like that? The movie was based on the book by Strieber and that doyen of the rational and the rigorous Art Bell. It's bunk, scientifically speaking. Yet this scientist is happy to have been associated with it and happy with the kind of three-second attention span, dumbed down cod-science that is being spun out of it in the popular media. Give me a break. Science is complex, and scientific conclusions only come right when they are careful and considered. And if you want to understand them it takes patience and research, and measured thinking. You can't cherry pick the interesting or scary bits and slap them in a bright presentation box and hope to have any kind of truth. What you'll have is nonsense. And it scares me that increasingly no one - not even the scientists themselves - seem to mind about that. If nonsense sells, or gets a research grant, then okay let's do nonsense. Let's talk up SARS, or killer-anthrax, or man-made global warming before we have a shred of evidence for any of them, because someone somewhere is paying us to do it. Remember what Orwell said? A real dictatorship doesn't just control the mainstream, it controls the alternatives? I think we should never forget that; because what the PTB want is to push our buttons, shape our 'alternative landscape', create our subjects for discussion, direct our thinking, so we end up just as controlled as the rest, bravely pursuing or 'investigations' and scary new revelations, unaware we are playing with toys in our own little cages in the human zoo. The only way to avoid that is to be entirely rigorous. Never confuse openness with gullibility; never confuse the possible with the proved (just because a thing may be true doesn't mean it is). I think there is a disaster heading our way, faster than any killer bug or climate collapse. It's the disaster of our own species-insanity, which seems to be growing ever greater. The governments of the US and the UK are run by psychopaths with no grasp of the idea of consequences, 'science' has become lost in chaos, controlled by the very same psychopaths, selling any idea that someone pays to be sold; the 'alternatives' meanwhile are in growing danger of committing suicide through gullibility and paranoia. The voice of sanity, of reason, of independent thought is dwindling, dying, drowned by the tidal waves of crazy, semi-digested garbage issuing from both sides. We have got to hold on to our critical faculties, otherwise the only 'voice of reason' will be CSICOP crying 'I told you so', and then all hope will be dead. Ellie

by **Dreams End** » Tue Aug 30, 2005 10:27 am

I was so excited by these soho photos when I first heard of them some years ago. The original "discoverers" had a big event to announce their findings and, of course, you could buy the CD. However, I would caution against much excitement now. People have yet to catch up to how digital images work. They are made of square "pixels" and at lower resolutions, very round or chaotic shapes can come out looking all "angles and sharp lines." I'm fairly certain that's what's going one here. Interestingly, if the photos were real, you'd have objects out there which are a significant fraction of the sun's size. The sun itself could hold a million earths I believe, so this would be no mean feat. For now, though, I think this is simply artifacts of poor imaging technology.

by **Qutb** » Tue Aug 30, 2005 12:57 pm

Actually, I suspect that whole Weatherwars site of being a joke... at least I hope it is. Ellie, good points. If "alternative" media are increasingly becoming peddlers of sensationalism and paranoia - the very things it should be the antithesis of - then that does not bode well for the future. One of the most overlooked, but also most important, facets of fascism is its relativism, the rejection of the concept of objective truth. What is true, in fascism, is what you believe to be true. There is no distinction between the two. One opinion isn't worth more than another. The theory of relativity and quantum physics were dismissed by the Nazis as "Jewish science", thus not "true" for the Aryans. Bad news from Iraq is due to "liberal bias" in the media, thus not "true".... It is, then, perhaps not a coincidence that promoting ontological relativism seems to have been a core part of the covert strategy of the American right during the last couple of decades. And I fear they are succeeding. They are, as they say, creating their own reality, while they are undermining trust in all traditional sources of information. An example is the incessant use of the word "bias", which has been an indispensable part of any right-winger's vocabulary for some time. If you try to have a conversation with an ideologically schooled American right-winger, you will quickly notice that, to them, there are no facts per se. There are only assertions and claims and bias. I once tried to explain to a right-winger why the BBC is better than Fox News, but he dismissed it with "you only like it because it's biased in your direction". The BBC may say one thing, but some people say something else. You see it in the arguments on creationism and evolution - they are competing theories. One isn't more accurate than the other. I think there's more to the Republican embrace of creationism than just pandering to backwards constituents. When creationsim is considered a competing theory, equally worthy of being taught in school as the theory of evolution, science is reduced to "bias". The scientists that disagree with you have an agenda - their evidence means nothing. Some people say evolution doesn't happen. Incidentally, the same line of thinking can be found among holocaust deniers, hiding behind the doctrine of "post-modernism". Which, in turn, owes much to Martin Heidegger, who was a quite enthusiastic member of the German Nazi party in the 1930s. The neo-cons would never admit it, but they are in fact radical post-modernists. The ultimate goal may be to confuse people so much about what's actually true or real that they will just have to trust someone who offers a "truth" they would like to believe in. Like, say, The Leader. Or The Guru? Those who read rightwing/neocon blogs will notice that they detest the mainstream (or "lamestream") media even more than we do. Or at least they pretend to. Where I'm going with this is that sites like weatherwars.com play right into this strategy, even if that isn't intentional on the part of this guy (was he a meteorologist?). A very noticeable effect on people who get into this far-out conspiracy stuff (I'm not talking about, say, From the Wilderness, but things like weatherwars.com) - hell, I notice that effect on me, too - is that they will start to distrust any source of information, any historical fact, anything they previously held to be true and beyond doubt. And that is a double-edged sword. Doubt is healthy. Questioning everything, at times, is healthy. Exploring weird and unlikely possibilities can be important. But, contrary to what we may like to think, if we abandon all certitudes and lose the ability to discern the likely from the unlikely and the unlikely from the ludicrous, then truthseeking will only result in deep confusion which is disabling rather than empowering. It is of course important to know the limitations and shortcomings of the MSM - and everyone on this board does - but if we reject the New York Times only to embrace Weatherwars, then I fear the fascist agenda will have succeeded. That, even more than their effect of discrediting alternative analysis in the eyes of the public, is why I'm extremely sceptical of David Icke, Rense, NASA faked the moon landing, all weather is controlled by the Pentagon, hollow Earth, <a href="http://www.enterprisemission.com/weblog/2005/08/hyperdimensional-katrina.html"> hyperdimensional hurricane terrorism</a> and so on. Qutb means "axis," "pole," "the center," which contains the periphery or is present in it. The qutb is a spiritual being, or function, which can reside in a human being or several human beings or a moment. It is the elusive mystery of how the divine gets delegated into the manifest world and obviously cannot be defined.

by **proldic** » Tue Aug 30, 2005 1:06 pm

You also see the effect of post-modernism on the "alternative". I think it's even more insidious on the "left" than on the "right" in Euro-Americans. Remember this? <a href="http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9D0DE5DE123CF935A25751C1A9679C8B63">query.nytimes.com/gst/ful...A9679C8B63</a> Also, Parenti says his new book is going to be about this.

by **proldic** » Tue Aug 30, 2005 1:11 pm

"Others are engaging in an eco-type terrorism whereby they can alter the climate, set off earthquakes, volcanoes, remotely through the use of electromagnetic waves." - US Secretary of Defense William Cohen 4/28/97

by **proldic** » Tue Aug 30, 2005 1:25 pm

You cut right to the core of our entire modern US-Euro experience. Academia, the arts, and now science. In popular culture, intellectual culture, everyday discourse-assumptions. Conspiracy denial. So what are we left with? The extremely ugly spectacle of Focault debating Chomsky. Both monsters indeed. Wish I could verbalize this better...

by **proldic** » Tue Aug 30, 2005 1:28 pm

of course I meant Foulcault the philosopher

by **proldic** » Tue Aug 30, 2005 1:36 pm

Holy shit! Did I just say that the US-Euro "left"/"alternative" is more fascist than the so-called right? Of course that's absurd... But, still wondering - at least as far as the modern US history dissident is concerned - who embraced moral/cultural relativist/post-modernist tautology first/more heartily?

by **AnnaLivia** » Tue Aug 30, 2005 1:42 pm

quote Qutb: "One of the most overlooked, but also most important, facets of fascism is its relativism, the rejection of the concept of objective truth. What is true, in fascism, is what you believe to be true. There is no distinction between the two. One opinion isn't worth more than another. The theory of relativity and quantum physics were dismissed by the Nazis as "Jewish science", thus not "true" for the Aryans. Bad news from Iraq is due to "liberal bias" in the media, thus not "true".... It is, then, perhaps not a coincidence that promoting ontological relativism seems to have been a core part of the covert strategy of the American right during the last couple of decades. And I fear they are succeeding. They are, as they say, creating their own reality, while they are undermining trust in all traditional sources of information. An example is the incessant use of the word "bias", which has been an indispensable part of any right-winger's vocabulary for some time. If you try to have a conversation with an ideologically schooled American right-winger, you will quickly notice that, to them, there are no facts per se. There are only assertions and claims and bias. I once tried to explain to a right-winger why the BBC is better than Fox News, but he dismissed it with "you only like it because it's biased in your direction". The BBC may say one thing, but some people say something else." take a bow. wish i'd written that.

by **proldic** » Tue Aug 30, 2005 2:49 pm

...with Foulcault defending "conspiracy theory" against Chomsky's "structuralist theory". Truly wretched...

by **Qutb** » Tue Aug 30, 2005 9:19 pm

Proldic Foucault debating Chomsky, now there's an ugly spectacle <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/happy.gif ALT=":D"> You're right to point out that post-modernism has mostly been an instrument of the left. Whether that makes the left more fascist, I don't know... but I do think true Conservatism is close to being the antithesis of fascism, though true Social Democracy is even closer. I don't think of Foucault as a peddler of conspiracy theory - is he? I've only read "l'Histoire de la sexualité", which I found utterly boring. The rejection or at least disapproval of the modern that is prevalent in much post-modernist philosophy is reminiscent of "traditionalist" fascism à la Julius Evola (whose most well-known work is called "revolt against the modern world"). There is also a thread to a certain fringe of the anti-globalization movement today, incidentally the type of anti-globalization that is promoted with the funds of the late Sir James Goldsmith, the English industrialist (or rather de-industrializer). Anti-technological, anti-state, anti-modern, reminiscent of the German "Wandervogel", the guitar-playing, bohemian young men and women from whom came some of the early support for the Nazi party. The neocons used to be leftists, of course (Whether they were genuine or fake CIA liberals is another question). Wasn't Leo Strauss one of Heidegger's students? (Leo allegedly had a crush on Hannah Arendt, but she rejected him, I recently read somewhere). The importance of the neocons has probably been exaggerated, but neocons or not, the American right-wing has learned a thing or two from certain intellectual currents on the "left". The ideology of the neo-cons and the American right-wing is the opposite of the anti-modern tendencies of the "left-wing" post-modernists though. The Gingrich "conservatives" are techno-utopic, pro-science, anti-environmentalist. I'd like to know how Foucault is a conspiracy theorist, if you have any examples. I don't know that much about him. One thing I do know is that he did endorse the Iranian revolution, he was Iran when it happened, reporting for L'Express I think, and he was very enthusiastic, referring to ayatollah Khomeini as "a wise old man". Naive, at best. Qutb means "axis," "pole," "the center," which contains the periphery or is present in it. The qutb is a spiritual being, or function, which can reside in a human being or several human beings or a moment. It is the elusive mystery of how the divine gets delegated into the manifest world and obviously cannot be defined.

by **ZeroHaven** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 3:44 pm

since nobody else said it: the reason those streaks show up in the soho pics is because the plate that records images occasionally gets specs of ice on it. ice grows long like that in low pressure.. seen it happen on airplane windows. every so often the plate gets heated to remove the debris, and we get clear pics for a while. the equipment got knocked around a while back, and some vapor got in. <img src="http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a239/ZeroHaven/tinhat.gif"/>

solar system very lively

solar system very lively

re: any thoughts

why

Now that is scary...

Re: Now that is scary...

Re: Now that is scary...

Nice post qutb

but also digest this...

re-reading your post here

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discussion w/ myself

excellent observation well-explained

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Re: excellent observation well-explained

Re: solar system very lively

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