Question: is it the flu, or the vaccine that will do us in?

by **firstimer** » Fri Sep 23, 2005 12:30 pm

sittingstill, With all due respect, I know that story, close relative is a pathologist. You can have your vaccines, I wouldn't dare take them away from you. I know you'll respect my right to consientiously object even though my own federal and state government doesn't. If you aren't curious about them don't let me distract you from your dreamworld. Now I wish I could be there with you, Ignorance is Bliss when there is no escape. sorry for the late response, I come and go, but I do truely love this board more every passing day. (thanks Jeff) Firstimer

by **Inanna** » Fri Sep 23, 2005 2:31 pm

I got both Tamiflu and Amantandine from www.drugdelivery.ca I asked my Dr. for a script but he would not give it to me (he told me to go to my PCP). Well, lousy insurance here and by the time I were to pay for another office visit, the price of the pills would cost more (all things considered). There is no Rx required at this site, but it comes from out of the US. I think from the UK and then also from Australia. I hope there is no issue going through customs. After reading what Tal posted though, looks like I wasted my money on the Amantadine. Oh, what the hell. My life's worth a few hundred dollars or at least an attempt to have some protection.

by * » Sat Sep 24, 2005 4:04 am

The Flu Scare Game  by John Keller I always know when it's flu season. First, the media begins its usual role as hysterical government press secretary, uncritically trumpeting the same cooked numbers about the coming flu epidemic. The steady drone of recent broadcasts, including one on NBC's Today Show (10/6/04), warn that the flu kills about 36,000 people every year in the United States. The broadcasts usually cite the CDC as the source of this huge number. This is borne out by the main CDC page, with its immediate link to flu information and statistics. It's a crock, a lie, and a sham; a conspiracy to generate fear and stampede people to use a vaccine of questionable effectiveness to the benefit of pro-immunization bureaucrats, and big pharma. Sounds harsh, but follow the math and the money. A cursory glance at the most recent (2001) death statistics from the Data Highlights page posted on the CDC site, shows that Influenza and Pneumonia (International Cause of Death numbers J10 and J18) killed 62,034 people. Quick mental subtraction would tell you that just over half were killed by the flu, versus pneumonia, if the 36,000 number is correct. So far, the size of the flu epidemic seems plausible. Here's the link to the National Vital Statistics System page within the CDC site that has the Data Highlights and Full Reports. This is important, because the Data Highlights page is just that, a single page highlight of all the various mortality stats gathered by the CDC. Now, let's dig into the more detailed reports. The "Deaths: Final Data for 2001" report is an 8MB PDF. Skip it unless you want all the charts detailing deaths by race, age, and ethnicity. The 2002 preliminary report contains the interesting parts of the 2001 final report, as well as data from 2002. The second search result for J10 (the mortality code for flu) brings us to page 16 of 48, which contains the breakout of flu and pneumonia. Total flu deaths for 2002: 753. Pneumonia accounted for the other 65,231 deaths. Scrolling to the right are the numbers for 2001. Again, total flu deaths were under one thousand, coming in at 257. That's right, less than a thousand people died of the flu in 2001 and 2002, according to the CDC's own numbers. Searching around on the CDC website reveals several more pages that call into question the 36,000 deaths per year number. For example, this page dedicated to the 2003-04 season states that "152 influenza-associated deaths among children" occurred during the 2003-04 flu season, but carefully avoids answering its own question about the total number of dead in the 2003-2004 season. Instead, it goes on in serious sounding quais-scientific statistico blather: "During the 2003-04 season, the percentage of P & I-associated deaths was higher than the epidemic threshold for 9 consecutive weeks." Again, lumping pneumonia and flu deaths together, even though the CDC does not recognize the flu as one of the many causes of pneumonia. Finally, the CDC's own "Flu Pandemics" page puts deaths in the United States from the Spanish Flu Pandemic of 1918-1919 at 500,000, Asian Flu pandemic of 1957-58 at 70,000, and the Hong Kong Flu pandemic of 1968-69 at 34,000. These are the three 20th century pandemics, and two of them killed close to what the CDC is now calling average. What's going on here? How is it that the CDC could be off by two orders of magnitude between their own official mortality stats, and the press kit number of 36,000 deaths per year. Could it be that the CDC is somehow misleading the public about the relative dangers of the flu? Here is a link to the CDC-AMA sponsored National Influenza Vaccination Summit for 2004. This is an invitation only conference hosted by the CDC and the American Medical Association. Luckily for the public, the speaker list, agenda, and presentations are posted online. The attendees list of this CDC-AMA sponsored event reads like a lobbying group for flu immunization. Of the 97 attendees, vaccine manufacturers CHIRON (10), Aventis-Pasteur (10), Medimmune (5), and Baxter Vaccines (4) were a full 29 strong. Medical Conglomerates Kaiser Permanente (6) and McKesson (3) rounded out the big corporate influence cabal. The CDC sent 39 attendees and the AMA (proper, not members) had 4. The remainder of the attendees were a mix of state and local health departments (e.g. Rhode Island Medical Society), smaller pharma companies (e.g. Solvay Pharmaceuticals), and pro-immunization organizations (e.g. Sabin Vaccine Institute). And did these learned scholars of immunology, virology, and general public health debate the merits of vaccinating against a virus that kills less than 1,000 people in most years? Perhaps they were celebrating the fact that only a few hundred died from the flu, thanks to their vaccines? Not exactly. The manufacture, distribution, and administration of flu vaccine is a cash cow, worth several hundred million dollars a year. Here's a quote from CHIRON CORP's 2003 Annual Report: "Sales of our flu vaccines were $332.4 million, $90.0 million and $74.7 million in 2003, 2002 and 2001, respectively." Those numbers represent just the manufacture of flu vaccine, from one company, not including any of the profits from the distribution, or administration of the vaccine. Buried in the speakers presentations from the conference are some interesting stats. It turns out that 147 children under 18 died of the flu in the 2003�04 season. Of those, 101 reported whether or not the child received the flu vaccine. Of those, 22 had received at least one flu shot, and 4 had received multiple flu shots. That puts the percentage of immunized children that died at just under 22% of all children (page 10 of 23, Cochi Presentation.) Further in the report we learn that the CDC's own studies show they believe the flu vaccine to be only 16%-63% effective against the flu, while a French report shows 61% effectiveness against influenza-like-illness (without confirming that it's actually the flu). According to a Harvard study, (Nowak presentation, page 26), only 22% of parents of children 6�23 months had them immunized, and only 30% of children under 18 were immunized. Now, I'm no Dr. John Lott when it comes to statistics, but if the ratio of immunized to non-immunized children in the total population (22%�30%) is nearly identical to the immunized to non-immunized ratio of children in an admittedly small sample of children that died (22%), the case could be made that the flu vaccine is largely worthless. In other words, the best case these needle-happy pro-flu vaccinators can mount shows that their immunization program would work, maybe, just over half the time, but some simple number crunching of our own shows that its probably much less than that. The coup de grace' comes from one of the CDC's own, Glen Nowak, PhD., in a presentation titled Planning for the 2004-5 Vaccination Season: A Communication Situation Analysis" the good doctor lays out a media manipulation campaign that would make Goebbels proud. Pages 27 on detail a literal "7 Step Recipe" that the CDC will use, in conjunction with the virus makers, to "(Frame)... the flu season in terms that motivate behavior (e.g., as very severe, more severe than last or past years, deadly)". To summarize thus far: * The flu kills fewer than 1,000 people on average, not 36,000 * Flu Vaccine is of highly dubious effectiveness * The CDC and Vaccine Manufacturers are in closed door sessions with the primary stated purpose of boosting vaccination numbers by spreading fear At this point, some may think, "Hey, it might be worth getting, just as a preventative measure. Sort of like throwing a little salt over your shoulder, what can it hurt?" Plenty. The good Dr. Donald Miller, cardiac surgeon and Professor of Surgery at the University of Washington in Seattle, recently did an article about the dangers of mercury in vaccines and amalgam fillings. The CDC has a position on Thimerosal (methyl mercury based preservative) in flu vaccines posted to its website. Without admitting that Thimerosal might be responsible for the epidemics of autism, alzheimers, and ADD in this country, the CDC gives us a sop about taking it out or removing it. Reading the fine print, however, tells us: "the majority of influenza vaccines distributed in the United States currently contain Thimerosal as a preservative." Furthermore, in a bit of regulatory trickery, the FDA is letting smaller amounts go undisclosed : "..some contain only trace amounts of Thimerosal and are considered by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) to be preservative-free." In other words, even if you ask to see the vaccine label, check for Thimerosal, and get a warm fuzzy feeling about the shot being labeled "Thimerosal free," thanks to the FDA's accommodation of drug manufacturers, it could still contain mercury. When the major manufacturers of flu vaccine get together with the CDC in a closed door summit with the sole purpose of figuring out how to stick 185 million doses of a questionable vaccine into a population in which less than 1,000 people a year die, what should we call it? Yes, Virginia, it is a conspiracy. Luckily the conspirators are foolish enough to believe that their website is safely hidden amidst all the chaff of the Internet, or else, are so brazen in their contempt for the general population that they think we can't do a little math and conclude "The vaccine doesn't work, and the flu is a flim-flam!" Eventually, there will be another pandemic of the flu, and thousands will die. The CDC should concentrate on finding ways to lower the spread, working alternatives to vaccines, and ways to minimizing the severity of the flu, rather than pumping out fake numbers, creating an aura of fear and hysteria, and shilling for profits to huge pharma companies. <a href="http://www.whale.to/a/keller1.html">link</a> many embedded links at the original

by **Inanna** » Sat Sep 24, 2005 4:09 am

I prefer to follow what Dr. Niman says at Recombinomics over Lew Rockwell, but I'd welcome your proving me wrong. Granted, Niman can be an alarmist, but I don't view your source as credible. Sorry.

by **Inanna** » Sat Sep 24, 2005 4:13 am

out of my home state has issued a warning to the government. I gotta tell ya, having grown up in MN and attended the U of M myself, I view whatever he says as rock solid, and he is concerned and has communicated this to the CFR.

by **marykmusic** » Sat Sep 24, 2005 12:46 pm

...go to the Vaccine Liberation site from the link above. We don't do "shots" for ourselves or animals (except for the rabies I was forced by law to do on my Jack Russell Terrier) and are all healthy. A large chunk of the old people I know who have been getting flu shots for years, are now showing Alzheimer's symptoms. Yes, there is a connection. No, I won't tell you how to find it; if you want to know, the information is out there, especially on VacLib. He who does the research, owns the knowledge. --MaryK

by **Starman** » Sat Sep 24, 2005 2:43 pm

-- the information IS out there -- and it's not hard to find. Thanks for the heads-up, guys! Like -- Holy Hell! I TRY to be well-informed about stuff, but somehow I missed this most evident link between vaccine preservatives mercury and aluminum, and the incidence risk of alzheimers. I was sort-of informed about the apparant lack of influenza efficacy, but DIDn'T know about the alzheimer link. Sure makes me rethink my own decisions -- I've probably had 3-4 flu shots in the last 20 years -- and I sure don't plan to take any more. From what I gather, the whole flu vaccine racket is a scam, revealing the same kind of profit-driven criminal negligence in the FDA's strong-armed approval of Nutrasweet. I tried to convince my step-mom to stop using the stuff because it's a poison, but she won't! There's NO value to taking the stuff, it DOESN'T reduce obesity and likely even contributes to it by causing carbohydrate cravings. I think she's psychologically addicted to using it as a pathetic sop to her lack of discipline in eating wisely and well -- she can overeat with a clear conscience because she uses nutrasweet and eats 'diet' desserts. Go figger. How can such rampant governmental-aided fraud, of which vaccines and Nutrasweet are just TWO of perhaps a hundred or more serious issues of misfeasance and corruption, JUST be incidental? It seems, as we've seen so dramatically with FEMA, that 'the government' has become an active enemy of the greater public, even to the extent of siding with corporations against larger public interests. This seems intended as a NWO tactic via hegelian dialectic to manufacture an antithesis 'problem' of out-of-control government that will be 'solved' by a synthesis solution -- perhaps something like privatized political management and social services based on performance and accountability -- like the duplicious 'No Child Left Behind' educational 'reform' that penalizes poorly-performing schools with reduced funding (this is supposed to 'help' improve the quality of education HOW? --Clearly, it doesn't -- it's just gonna increase disparity between rich and poor school districts: the neocon 'way' to progress <sarcasm>.) Goddammit -- somebody identify a target I can aim my tank at, eh? (uh, that wuzza joke, son!) Starman <a href="http://www.minnesotanaturalhealth.org/vaccines/alzheim.htm">www.minnesotanaturalhealt...lzheim.htm</a> Vaccines and Alzheimer's Disease Flu shot season will be here starting in October, so please be aware that flu shots are NOT benign. The brief forwarded message below discusses research linking flu shots to Alzheimer's disease. In addition, the CDC passed a new resolution in June, 2002 that flu shots are recommended for children aged 6 months to 2 years. All flu shots contain mercury, plus three different strains of a virus that can be incorporated into a person's own DNA. We are now going to start giving this vaccine to infants annually....for the rest of their lives. Ponder the implications.....especially when the CDC admits that the flu vaccine DOESN'T WORK! (see nmaseminars.com for the complete article). Please share this information with your friends, colleagues and loved ones before the flu shot season is upon us. As people are educated, they can make informed decisions about their health. Sincerely, Dr. Sherri J. Tenpenny ----------------- FLU SHOTS AND ALZHEIMER'S Flu Shots and mercury According to Hugh Fudenberg, MD, the world's leading immunogeneticist and 13th most quoted biologist of our times (nearly 850 papers in peer review journals): If an individual has had 5 consecutive flu shots between 1970 and 1980 (the years studied) his/her chances of getting Alzheimer's Disease is 10 times higher than if he/she had one, 2 or no shots. Dr. Fudenberg said this was due to mercury and aluminum that is in every flu shot (and most childhood shots). The gradual mercury and aluminum buildup in the brain causes cognitive dysfunction. Incidence of Alzheimer's is expected to quadruple in the future. Flu shots contain 25 micrograms of mercury. Some B12 shots contain mercury. One microgram is considered toxic. Notes: Recorded from Dr. Fudenberg's speech at the NVIC International Vaccine Conference, Arlington, VA September, 1997. Quoted with permission. Alzheimer's to quadruple statement is from John's Hopkins Newsletter Nov 1998.--Ted Koren DC *** <a href="http://altmedangel.com/vaccine.htm">altmedangel.com/vaccine.htm</a> Vaccinations: Good, Bad or Just Plain Ugly The FDA and other "watchdog" government agencies seldom are called to account for erroneous or irresponsible decisions. In the Dow Chemical silicone breast implant suit, the government was recently awarded $9.8 million for medical expenses paid out through Medicare and Medicaid. It didn't seem to matter that another agency, the FDA, of the same government had previously approved the use and sale of these implants and is currently considering whether to allow them to be sold again. Further, these same agencies show definite bias when it comes to evaluating the risks associated with drugs. A good example is the fact that the agencies are constantly pushing for vaccinations and flu shots. For some reason, however, they neglect to tell the public that the preservative in these flu shots and vaccines is mercury. Is there such a thing as healthy mercury? When it comes to other sources of mercury, though, they are extremely vigilant. They have issued repeated warnings on the consumption of various fish, including tuna, shark, swordfish, and mahi-mahi, because of possible mercury contamination. And since mercury is particularly harmful to nerve cells, government health authorities have stressed that infants and small children shouldn't be fed these foods, and pregnant and nursing mothers should avoid eating tuna also. However the facts state that most canned tuna contains less mercury contamination than tuna steaks, which come from larger tuna. It's hard to tell how much, if any, mercury these products contain. Smaller fish are safer, and so are fish like sole, sardines, herring, bass, catfish, salmon and shellfish. Although the EPA (Environmental Protection Agency) has determined that the maximum allowable daily exposure to mercury is 0.1 microgram per kilogram of body weight, the new flu vaccine for babies, called Fluzone, contains 25 micrograms of mercury per 0.5 ml dose. Practically all vaccines contain mercury and aluminum. And vaccines are not "safer" sources of these toxic minerals. It doesn't matter if the mercury comes from fish or from a vaccine. The potential for neurological damage remains the same. But for some reason, even though we're warned about fish consumption, vaccines and flu shots are strongly encouraged and, in many instances, even required by law. It shouldn't come as any surprise that more babies seem to be developing autism problems, and the risk of developing Alzheimer's disease is steadily increasing. Alzheimer's linked to flu shots In the year 2000, there were approximately 5 million people in the U.S. with Alzheimer's, and it has become the fourth leading cause of death in individuals over the age of 75. By the year 2010, it is estimated that over 7 million individuals will have the disease, and by 2025, 22 million will develop Alzheimer's. As the general population continues to consume more contaminated food, water, and medicines, these predictions may very well prove accurate. One expert at the 1997 National Vaccine Information Center (NVIC) International Vaccine Conference stated that anyone who had five consecutive flu vaccine shots increased their risk of developing Alzheimer's disease by a factor of 10 over someone who received only two or fewer shots. A powerful herb to prevent alzheimer's It's worth mentioning, while we're on the Alzheimer's topic, that the elderly in India have the lowest incidence of Alzheimer's disease in the world. Only 1 percent of the elderly in India suffer from Alzheimer's. In contrast, the Alzheimer's Association in this country says that 10% of our population over 65 years old has the disease, and half of those over 85 have Alzheimer's. Researchers have theorized that the low incidence of Alzheimer's among the Indian population could be due to their increased consumption of the spice turmeric, a component of curry. Animal studies have supported this theory. Studies have shown that when either turmeric or curcumin, (a major component of turmeric) was added to the diets of animals bred to develop Alzheimer's, the brain damage was significantly lessened. [Neurobiol Aging 01;22(6):993-1005] [J Neurosci 01:21(21):8370-8377] Turmeric has been shown to have very strong antioxidant properties that can be very effective at normal dietary doses. This spice may be one of the easiest and least expensive methods of combating the growing epidemic of Alzheimer's disease. Better than a flu shot When it comes to beating the flu, selenium can increase your odds. Selenium is a necessary mineral for the production of antioxidants within the body. New animal research from the University of North Carolina has found that a dietary deficiency of selenium may cause a harmless strain of the flu virus to mutate into a virulent pathogen. When selenium-deficient mice were given a known flu virus and compared to mice with normal selenium levels, researchers found that the selenium-deficient animals experienced far more serious symptoms, such as lung damage. Based on this new research, other researchers are wondering if the more potent viruses, such as HIV, also mutated in environments where there were selenium deficiencies. It makes sense when you consider the well-known fact that most of the worldwide flu outbreaks originate in China, where large segments of the population are selenium-deficient. Whether you decide to get flu shots or other vaccinations is a personal choice but as you weigh the pros and cons of such a decision, don't be naive enough to think any of our government agencies have your best interests as their top priority. It could be a fatal mistake. **** More info from the AltMedAngel site (very good alternative medicine resource): <a href="http://altmedangel.com/vacinate.htm">altmedangel.com/vacinate.htm</a> The Whole Truth + Nothing But - 5 pages (2003) --This article answers the what, when, how and why of vaccinations. Which vaccines are necessary and which ones are not? Combination vaccines and alternatives to vaccination.

by **Martha** » Sat Sep 24, 2005 3:10 pm

Hmm, I seem to remember getting flu shots back in the early 90's when I was still in high school. I haven't had one in the last 4 years and have been fine. Mostly I just stay away from crowds (don't like em). No kids to bring home germs from school. Also, practice routine hand washing and carrying around alcohol gel helps.

by * » Sun Sep 25, 2005 11:40 am

"How can such rampant governmental-aided fraud, of which vaccines and Nutrasweet are just TWO of perhaps a hundred or more serious issues of misfeasance and corruption, JUST be incidental?" I know it sounds like the proverbial clichÃ© CT but it's <a href="http://www4.dr-rath-foundation.org/publication_library/rockefeller.htm">The Rockefeller Medicine Men:</a>  "When Rockefeller Medicine Men was first published in 1979, it proved to be a controversial work. In reviewing histories of medicine from 1962 to 1982, Ronald L. Numbers called it "the most controversial medical history of the past decade". Part of the controversy generated by the book comes from its social-historical approach to medicine. The growing body of social histories of health-care challenges the "great physician" perspective that for so long has dominated the history of medicine. In his book, E. Richard Brown describes the political economy of health care, integrating material from a variety of disciplines - economics, sociology, political science, epidemiology, history and social policy" Read it online......

Question: is it the flu, or the vaccine that will do us in?

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