BIRD FLU: what tipper gore said

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Not this again!

Postby Morgan Wolf » Mon Oct 10, 2005 8:40 am

How many threads have we devoted to the Avian Flu so far? Good gods, people! Now, because Tipper Gore says, "its coming" we should all accept this as fact?<br><br>Dreams End, you're right. It's time to buy Roche stock.<br><br>Israelirealities - you're doctor sounds comfortably sane. I'm glad he laughed. He certainly gave you excellent advice.<br><br>*For the zillionth time: Tamiflu is not a cure for flu and it will not help in the event of a 'bird flu' outbreak. Here is the most important thing: THERE IS NO VACCINE FOR AVIAN INFLUENZA. It takes years to develop a flu vaccine. Why, then, are we hearing all of this hyseria?<br><br>Indeed, 'bird flu' is not even close to becoming an international health threat anymore than SARS was. Think about the timing of this newest 'terror' and consider why all the networks are stoking the cauldron of your fears now? (I don't care what Tipper says.) It is about distraction: the Repugs are in deep doo-doo.<br><br>Today's headlines are screaming that the GOPS might be in trouble in 2008 - the Harriet Miers thing did not curry any favor with the Conservatives wing - those who are already disenchanted with Georgie Boy. Why else would Bush make this a #1 priority at this moment in time??? <br><br>FYI: See this thread, which contains information posted by me, your resident pharmacy technician. It comprises a discussion about using prophylactic measures like Tamiflu, and how the drug companies are profiting like crazy off of your fear. It also contains a link to a Sept. 05 study by the New England Journal of Medicine on the Avian Flu. Finally, the thread discusses Bush's threat to quarantine people through military force.<br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://p216.ezboard.com/frigorousintuitionfrm10.showMessage?topicID=1307.topic">p216.ezboard.com/frigorou...1307.topic</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br>Cheers, Morgan <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Not this again!

Postby Dreams End » Mon Oct 10, 2005 10:09 am

Morgan,<br><br>Here's the slightly creepy problem. 80% of me believes you. <br><br>But a couple of little things got into the press recently. One was that, for unknown reasons, scientists in the lab have "resurrected" the 1918 flu bug. I know it's important to have a hobby, but that seems a little over the top.<br><br>Secondly, the recent announcement I heard on NPR that, hey, what do you know, the 1918 bug was a "bird flu." <br><br><br>so it is worth watching. Sorry for no links to above...kinda rushed this morning, but all from mainstream sources. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: the resurresction

Postby israelirealities » Mon Oct 10, 2005 10:59 am

btw, i looked up Sunshine Project's website and they are writing about the resurrection of the spanish flu virus already 2 year ago, when the project was announced. So actually this is "no news" except that now they concluded the project successfuly,or maybe that now they want to go public with the end of the project. who knows.<br>The coincidental semblence, raises paranoid thoughts about the source of this new outbreak. But if its so, what does that actually mean on the practical level for us, simple people.. <br> <p></p><i></i>
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Flu is Spreading

Postby Col Quisp » Mon Oct 10, 2005 12:26 pm

Whether this is something to really worry about or not, it is troubling that the bird flu is appearing in parts of the world where it has not been seen previously (Russia, Rumania, Turkey and possibly Hungary). This gives it more opportunities to mutate.<br><br>Wouldn't it be ironic if the recent outbreak in Turkey led to the avian virus's ability to hop efficiently from human to human? Gobble, gobble! Just in time for thanksgiving. <br><br>I think we are right to be worried about this, and not just cuz Tipper says so.<br> <p></p><i></i>
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morgan -- sorry i missed your previous thread

Postby nashvillebrook » Mon Oct 10, 2005 1:13 pm

input from a pharmacy tech is much welcome. if this has been "put to bed," then forgive my ignorance that RI has "moved on."<br><br>but i have to point out, not everything that happens between now and the end of the bush regime will directly pertain to political discourse. i doubt the flu gives a hoot who is president or not. maybe foxnews has reported on this -- i don't know. my research has only turned up a few stories of American origin. most of the news is coming out of Europe right now.<br><br>Tamilflu isn't the only anti-viral. there's some generics as well. there's also ways of treating the secondary conditions without treating the virus. i didn't mention vaccines and i haven't seen any press on vaccine research for this variety of flu.<br><br>MY critique is about LACK of leadership. in that vacuum, given the bit of gossip from this weekend -- i thought i'd be neighborly and pass that info on; solicit input from other sources; and do my own research. <br><br>i don't see where Bush has made bird flu (or any health issue) a priority. he was asked a question at his laughable press conference and his answer was disturbingly off-target. if you have links that show otherwise, feel free to share. <p></p><i></i>
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Getting Tamiflu

Postby Inanna » Mon Oct 10, 2005 1:35 pm

If your doc won't give you an Rx, you can go to www.drugdelivery.ca and order it from overseas. Depending on how much you order, the price varies. For 30 Tamiflu (enough for 3 people maybe), it's $7.50 per pill. <br><br>I went to the Tamiflu website and a standard course of treatment for one person is 10 pills. They are taken twice daily for five days. However, according to Dr. Henry Niman (www.recombinomics.com), a person may need to take it longer.<br><br>It's showing some resistance, but it and Relenza are the two anti-virals that may reduce symptoms and save one's life. Amantadine was working, but then developed resistance. <br><br>Yes, the strains will mutate, but Tamiflu and Relenza are the two meds that show some promise at this point in time. <p></p><i></i>
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Bird Flu Mutation

Postby GDN01 » Mon Oct 10, 2005 3:20 pm

The reason I worry about this is more along the lines of what DE wrote.<br><br>It is my opinion that if there is an outbreak of the avian flu, it won't be due to natural mutations of the virus, enabling it to pass from human to human. It will be because it has been engineered to do so.<br><br>And I believe our govt. is preparing the people to accept this as a natural mutation with all the hype that is going out and to set themselves up as the agency that will save us *if* we grant them extraordinary powers to do so - such as the authority to use the military on our own land in ways that have not been allowed before, mass quarantining, and martial law. <br><br>This possibility is what gives me concern with the whole outbreak of bird flu scenarios that are being discussed. And if this happens, no drug will save us. <p></p><i></i>
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Let's hope not

Postby Inanna » Mon Oct 10, 2005 3:27 pm

Let's hope that there is a way to save us.<br><br>Alex Jones has had this flu expert on for an hour discussing ways to build your immune system. Of course he agrees that this is engineered. At any rate, he can be streamed tonight at www.gcnlive.com if anyone wants to catch the show in its entirety. I think most here would enjoy it and maybe it will help. <p></p><i></i>
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Spanish flu and World WAr 1

Postby sparkinthedark » Mon Oct 10, 2005 3:44 pm

One of the main reasons that the Spanish flu was so terrible is the poor state of health of the population. There had been years of war, with the resulting high number of sick, malnurished, and refugee populations. My own Grandfather was in the trenches and only lived a few more years. The bird flu would devestate the same parts of the populace now, but the well off countries would probably see very little of the horror. That's the way it has always been. <p></p><i></i>
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Flu -

Postby Morgan Wolf » Mon Oct 10, 2005 9:51 pm

Hi all,<br><br>I didn't mean to sound shrill this morning. I was late and that's sometimes how I am when I haven't time to use more tact.<br><br>Obviously, I realize that people are afraid. It is hard to not be afraid. Ask yourself if you are at risk for Avian Flu? Do any of you travel a lot, particularly to Asia? Do any of you work with poultry or in the meat industry? Are you a health care professional? Think about the possibilities of your personal exposure to H5N1, barring some bio-terrorist attack. That might help to quell your fears, or at least, put them in perspective. Remember, SARS was blown out of proportion and it eventually died out of the news. Peddling fear makes money for lots of people, not just the pharmaceutical companies. Fear sells as well as sex, violence, and bad weather, which is why we see so much of it on the news.<br><br>That said, you must all do what is right for you, such as getting flu shots or using Tamiflu. Some of you mentioned asking your doctors what to do. That's a good thing. Putting your questions and fears in the hands of a trusted professional is a positive and healthy action to take. So ask your doctors what, if anything, they recommend. I'm pretty sure they will tell you that the current flu vaccines will not protect you against the Avian Flu and that vaccines themselves carry some inherent risk when you take them into your body. Tamiflu will not likely have any effect if you are exposed to the H5N1 virus but it has been known to help with exposures to other strains.<br><br>IMHO: You're more likely to get an average run of the mill bug this winter that will keep you sick for weeks. It is not because it is a virulent strain of a mutated flu virus, but because we, as a nation, insist on working when we are too ill to leave our homes. It is an unsafe and rather stupid cultural paradigm that needs to be broken. We don't stay home and give our bodies time to get over our illnesses. Instead, we take drugs that do nothing but suppress our symptoms. What happens? Over the course of one work day, we spread it to everyone we meet. Of course, the illness hangs on because our bodies are not able to naturally recover. Worse, our culture has a habit of heavy reliance on antiobiotics for every cold and flu we contract. Patients demand drugs from their doctors as soon as they get sick - mostly because they cannot afford to miss work. The doctors don't really like prescribing them unless you are sick for more than 2 weeks or if you spike a fever for more than a few days. It's important to realize that every time you use an antibiotic, it is less effective the next time.<br><br>Let's face it: we live in a quick-fix society. I'm expected, for example, to fill prescriptions in 15 minutes or less, if the patient request it. Trust me, this is an unsafe practice. Pharmacies are not fast food joints. However, corporations only care about getting your money, not in keeping you safe. They would tell you your medicine was ready in 5 minutes if they thought it was humanly possible to do it. If it were up to me, I would suggest a new PR approach: 'we take longer because we care.' I would never tell a customer that a prescription could be safely filled in 15 minutes. There are too many things that can go wrong in a busy pharmacy with over-tired, underpaid technicians and one pharmacist (who is on duty for 12 straight hours without a lunch break). It is a crisis waiting to happen. But I don't make the rules. All I can do is keep as alert as possible and hope to god I or another tech don't f*ck up, or if we do, that the pharmacist isn't so tired or half-blind from checking so many scripts that he misses it. But I digress.<br><br>One way of dealing with bugs/viruses is to use hospital hygiene rules. I have to because I am in constant contact with the public (who are usually spitting, coughing, oozing, bleeding, and sometimes vomiting, all over my work area and on me). Most people in the health professions don't get sick that often, because of our sometimes obsessive handwashing habits, and because we use hand sanitizers all day long. Most of us shower before and after work. To deal with germs on clothing, I keep a special hamper in my apartment and dump my work smock and work clothes into it each night. When it's time to do a load of wash, I use rubber gloves to sort my clothes, and I use a cup of bleach in every wash load.<br><br>During flu season, try and avoid public places if there is an outbreak, particularly, places where there will be a lot of children. Since I do not have kids, I don't have to worry about that end of it, but many of you do. Keeping yourselves and your kids at home if anyone is sick is the best thing you can do to promote good public health for everyone.<br><br>Here are some more links that might help if you'd like to learn more about how many people have actually contracted Avian Flu and died from it, what research is being done, and what steps are recommended for the general public. <br><br>Nature Magazine, Online: Avian Flu: Web focus<br>(Superb coverage. Nature is a scientific journal written in accessible language.) <!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.nature.com/nature/focus/avianflu/index.html">www.nature.com/nature/foc...index.html</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br>Avian Influenza (Bird Flu) <br>This webpage provides background information about avian influenza, including recent outbreaks, the viruses, and the risk to human health. <!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.cdc.gov/flu/avian/">www.cdc.gov/flu/avian/</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br>Cumulative Number of Confirmed Human Cases of Avian Influenza A/(H5N1) Reported to WHO<br>10 October 2005 (This is a table: total cases reported: 117; total deaths 60 - Indonesia, Cambodia, VietNam, Thailand).<br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.who.int/csr/disease/avian_influenza/country/cases_table_2005_10_10/en/index.html">www.who.int/csr/disease/a...index.html</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br>Available evidence suggests no need to change the WHO recommended influenza A/H5N1 vaccine prototype strains<br>20 July 2005 (as of this summer - nobody was that worried, which is why this recent hysteria is suspect).<br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.who.int/csr/disease/avian_influenza/statement_2005_07_20/en/index.html">www.who.int/csr/disease/a...index.html</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br>This one will help answer why the 1918 virus was resurrected in the labs - risky, but the NIH says it's the only way to prevent another outbreak.<br><br>Unmasking the 1918 Influenza Virus:<br>An Important Step Toward Pandemic Influenza Preparedness<br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www3.niaid.nih.gov/news/newsreleases/2005/0510state.htm">www3.niaid.nih.gov/news/n...0state.htm</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br>Genomes of More than 200 Human Flu Strains Reveal a Dynamic Virus (interesting because it shows how very little we can do to stop mutations) <!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www3.niaid.nih.gov/news/newsreleases/2005/flugenome.htm">www3.niaid.nih.gov/news/n...genome.htm</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br>Cheers, <br>Morgan <p></p><i></i>
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Re: tamiflu

Postby israelirealities » Tue Oct 11, 2005 8:52 am

Israeli health authorities relieased a statement to press about the flu. The recommendations are to get the vaccine. As for Tamiflu - <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>explicitly for poeple older than 13</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END-->, not for kids ! Someone here posted that they are going to give it to children, I would consult a physician for kids younger than 13.<br>Prospects are for a bad flu season but no mention of bird flu. This year, the authorities will consider shutting down schools if the outbreak is bad.<br>vaccines are highly recommended for kids 6 months to 24 months, people older than 50 and sick people (heart desease and immune problems, no mention of people suffering from Asthma or respiratory problems...).<br> <p></p><i></i>
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