BIRD FLU: what tipper gore said

Moderators: Elvis, DrVolin, Jeff

BIRD FLU: what tipper gore said

Postby nashvillebrook » Sun Oct 09, 2005 9:42 pm

i posted the piece below at DU b/c i think the thrust of the "gossip" is important to share. given that it's controversial whether Bird Flu is something to worry about, i think it's useful to know what our "leaders" think regardless of their status of being in office or not. actually, you're less likely to get the straight dope from people in office b/c they have more to risk if they are wrong. <br><br>so here's the post -- read it and skip down to my special postscript just for RI. since this is a much smaller community and one with a collectively open mind, i feel okay about giving you guys the long version:<br><br>BIRD FLU: conversation and gossip around the fire pit<br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=5018686&mesg_id=5018686">www.democraticunderground...id=5018686</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br>last night we had people over to celebrate my husband's 39th birthday. it was our FIRST chilly weekend of fall -- perfect for fire pit. <br><br>so, we're just talking about all the crazy shit going on right now -- earthquakes, indictments -- and one of our guests mentioned that her boss (collegue, coworker, ect)) is a friend of tipper gore's. they do fundraising for an educational initiative or some such. i've known my friend (relating the story for a decade, and her husband for 20 years; they're like family.<br><br>fwiw -- the gossip is that tipper is "concerned" about bird flu just the same way we are, and discreetly urged the friend to keep tamiflu on hand (specifically the 10-day course). <br><br>we were all like, "yeah, but exactly how DO you get tamiflu?" it seems subversive. my doc has no patience for stuff like this. she's careful not to do upend her PTBs. is there a drug dealer i can call who only deals in antibiotics? no.<br><br>i think it would be nice if our LEADERs took the intiative here and urged our doctors to just go ahead and write prescriptions for anyone who asks. just let us try to protect our families and ourselves. it'd make us feel better given what we've just seen of how they handle an emergency. why wait? why risk spreading the disease by expecting sick people to go to the doctor for a diagnosis? i KNOW when i have the flu. i'm not a complete idiot.<br><br>Bush's very first response to Avian Flu, was "give me the power and i will give you the military -- THAT'll keep you safe from the flu." WHAT!? does this make sense to ANYONE? why bring soldiers into the equation? <br><br>is this, "starve a cold, shoot a fever?"<br><br>what about a simple public healthcare response? PREVENT an emergency. <br><br>IF they're expecting something so large it would require a MILITARY response, doesn't it seem like we could RISK a few simple PREVENTATIVE measures? <br><br>why call out the Gaurd when we could just call the pharmacy?<br><br>if compassionate conservatives can't muster the humanity to do this to alieviate suffering, might they do so to protect WORKER PRODUCTIVITY? think of all the sick days we'll have to take.<br><br>there it is. "tamiflu" and "10-day course." get some if you can if you are so inclined.<br><br>_____________________<br><br>here's the "rest of the story": tipper said pointedly: "IT'S COMING. BE READY." according to my friend relaying the story, there was a sense of urgency and seriousness. <br><br>i've never gotten a flu shot. i'm the kinda person who would rather just get the damn flu and get over it. it's kinda nice to go thru a winter-time flu cycle. fevers can produce amazing dreams. but when bird flu first got reported i just "felt" something was different about this one. it is markedly different in that the mortality rate is so high -- but the difference that bugs me is that the usual suspects who clamor for flu shots and extra precautions seem to be in "wait-and-see" mode. that bugs me. <br><br>anywho -- i woke up this morning and i couldn't stop thinking about our conversation and thought i'd at least share. FWIW -- no more. <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=nashvillebrook>nashvillebrook</A> at: 10/9/05 11:11 pm<br></i>
nashvillebrook
 
Posts: 635
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2005 2:19 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: BIRD FLU: what tipper gore said

Postby Dreams End » Sun Oct 09, 2005 10:08 pm

can someone definitively answer this question: Does tamiflu have any effect on this coming bird flu? Is it just a generic antiviral? <p></p><i></i>
Dreams End
 

Re: BIRD FLU: what tipper gore said

Postby israelirealities » Sun Oct 09, 2005 10:32 pm

the word here, in Israel, is that it alleviates symptoms and reduces the spreading. it does not innoculate against this strain. Israel is planning to buy a stock for about 1/4 of the population (the "elite" ? don't know who will receive it). However, places like NZ, Switzerland and other nice countries bought enough stock for the entire population. <p></p><i></i>
israelirealities
 
Posts: 385
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2005 8:47 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Tamiflu may be a feint.

Postby banned » Sun Oct 09, 2005 10:55 pm

And even if it isn't, it'll run out.<br><br>So is everyone who can't get it supposed to lie down and die?<br><br>Most of us are going to be on our own for this one. <p></p><i></i>
banned
 
Posts: 912
Joined: Sun Oct 02, 2005 5:18 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Tamiflu may be a feint.

Postby israelirealities » Sun Oct 09, 2005 11:26 pm

I wouldn't worry too much about the medication/flu. It seems overblown. Could be a "wet testing" for the real one. I am not going to panic, rather stock some antibiotics, the strong kind (and from a variety of kinds - the bronchitis one AND the other kind for streptococus etc.) and orapred/pediapred (or any other strong respiratory cortizon based medication for asthma and the asthma inhallation equipment). Once you have the first symptoms, kill them with a combination of antibiotics and respiratory stuff. That's the treatment they would offer in hospitals anyway. <p></p><i></i>
israelirealities
 
Posts: 385
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2005 8:47 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Antibiotics don't kill viruses

Postby metaxa » Sun Oct 09, 2005 11:58 pm

Let me say it again: antibiotics don't kill viruses. <br><br>And yes, (Oseltamivir)/Tamiflu is showing promise against bird flu. But the very best thing to do is to actively improve your immune system and not rely on a vaccination which may or or may not be available or fully effective against a rapidly mutating virus.<br><br>Do the world a favor and don't take antibiotics for viral infections. Antibiotic resistant bacteria just love the challenge when we do foolhardy things such as that. <p></p><i></i>
metaxa
 
Posts: 10
Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2005 12:20 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

It's true antibiotics don't work...

Postby banned » Mon Oct 10, 2005 12:40 am

...on viruses. But if you get secondary bacterial pneumonia you'll be glad to have some amoxicillin on hand.<br><br>Boosting your immune system should be front and center but having nearly died some years back of pneumonia which started as the flu, and having been saved by the antibiotics, they do have their place. I had, by the way, deliberately avoided going to the doctor for antibiotics for several WEEKS because I thought I had a stubborn virus! Only when I could barely breathe anymore, or walk, did I seek medical care. I'm lucky it wasn't too late, and that I didn't have lasting lung damage. <p></p><i></i>
banned
 
Posts: 912
Joined: Sun Oct 02, 2005 5:18 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: antibiotics + respiratory cortisoids

Postby nashvillebrook » Mon Oct 10, 2005 1:10 am

seems sound. <br><br>my husband has asthma and i have been susceptible to wicked-bad infections in the past. we're usually treated with steriods + antibiotics to treat the infection, not the virus. <br><br>Tamilflu is an enzyme-blocking antiviral. it'll help if the flu has not lasted more than 2 days. <p></p><i></i>
nashvillebrook
 
Posts: 635
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2005 2:19 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

dreamsend: here's something on your question

Postby nashvillebrook » Mon Oct 10, 2005 1:13 am

Tamilflu highly effective against avain flu H5N1 strain<br>MIL, Nov 1, 2004. Special Correspondent<br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://us.internationalreporter.com/news/read.php?id=222">us.internationalreporter....php?id=222</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br>London - Researchers at Queen Mary Hospital, London, have revealed that Roche's Tamiflu, an anti flu drug, has proved effective against the bird flu virus H5N1 strain, which is considered the most lethal. They say the drug is successful against avian and human forms of the virus.<br><br>Tamiflu blocks the action of the viral enzymes and is called neuraminidase inhibitor. The researchers have found in their study that Tamiflu (oseltamivir) has a wonderful effect against the strain, which has hit seriously Thailand and Vietnam.<br><br>So far the opinion of WHO is concerned, they say that Tamilflu is such a drug that has tackled bird flue. Their exact quote: “Tamiflu as the drug for tackling bird flu if ever a human pandemic breaks out.”<br><br>Background<br><br>According to Medical News Today, they gave the history that Tamiflu has been used effectively in other strains of bird flu. In the Netherlands, in 2003, when 1,000 people were infected with the H7N7 strain, the drug proved to be very effective.<br><br>Tamiflu is currently used in Europe, USA and Japan for type A and B influenzas. It now seems that it is also effective against the bird (avian) flu virus H5N1 strain.<br><br>The WHO and many health experts around the world have warned of the risk of a massive outbreak of human to human bird flu. The WHO says Tamiflu could be the drug of choice for this pandemic (if it ever happens).<br><br>Pandemics hit the planet every 27 years. The last one hit about 36 years ago. <p></p><i></i>
nashvillebrook
 
Posts: 635
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2005 2:19 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: dreamsend: here's something on your question

Postby Dreams End » Mon Oct 10, 2005 1:20 am

Note to self:<br><br>Buy Roche stock.<br><br>It's actually just a little eerie if you happen to have caught the recent movie, "A Constant Gardener." There, not only were unsafe medications being tested on unwitting Africans, but it was all in preparation for a huge profit opportunity due to a new, antibiotic resistant TB epidemic that was predicted to ravage the earth in just a few years. <br><br>I would definitely be interested in connections between the men in Washington and their "blind trusts" (nashvillebrooke and I are both particularly aware of how unblind these trusts really are, due to a certain Tennessee Senator) and Roche and similar companies. <br><br><br>In fact, best case scenario (how sad) is that there is no upcoming epidemic, whether natural or engineered, but these guys are just boosting tamiflu stock. <br> <p></p><i></i>
Dreams End
 

Re: It's true antibiotics don't work...

Postby marykmusic » Mon Oct 10, 2005 1:29 am

Build your immunesystem.<br><br>Don't get shots; no tellin' what's in them (after all, it's highly probable that's how HIV/Aids was spread throughout Africa.)<br><br>Use a zapper at the first sign of a problem. <!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.worldwithoutparasites.com" target="top">www.worldwithoutparasites.com</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--> It has been proven by many people (including myself) to take care of these symptoms. --MaryK <p></p><i></i>
marykmusic
 
Posts: 1502
Joined: Fri May 20, 2005 12:23 am
Location: Central Arizona
Blog: View Blog (0)

sourcing tamiflu

Postby glubglubglub » Mon Oct 10, 2005 1:39 am

www.drugbuyers.com is a board for people, well, buying lots of (prescription) drugs, with a laissez-faire attitude for current reimportation (and often prescription / scheduling) laws...most of the board (7/10th or so) are just people with chronic pain, but there's enough people on there with enough problems you can get advice about sourcing anything.<br><br>If you're trying to stock up on antivirals and can't get/don't have a cooperative doctor you can probably get good advice there. <p></p><i></i>
glubglubglub
 
Posts: 328
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2005 5:14 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

I got my Tamiflu today

Postby maggrwaggr » Mon Oct 10, 2005 2:13 am

I went to the Dr. and asked for it. He asked why I was so concerned. He sorta joked about it, actually, like "oh, this year's horrible disease that we're all supposed to catch?" <br><br>But he gave me the prescriptions and I got them filled at the local Walgreens.<br><br>It's expensive as all hell. Ten tablets were $96 bucks. I got them for me and my wife. Now we just have to get some for the kids. My dr's not a pediatrician and told me he wasn't comfortable prescribing anything for kids. But he looked it up and said it seems as though it's a suppository for the kids.<br><br>He said the adult Tamiflu could be taken as a prophylactic, that is, you can take it as a preventive measure, one pill a day for six weeks if need be. He said that would be prohibitively expensive, but I said who cares if it saves your life? I mean, really. <br><br>He didn't seem to think there would be any trouble getting Tamiflu, he said flu season hadn't been that bad the last two years so there was probably a lot of it around.<br><br>Interesting to hear his perspective as opposed to all the hype we've been hearing. Then again, maybe he's just not up to date. <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :) --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <p></p><i></i>
maggrwaggr
 
Posts: 234
Joined: Sat May 07, 2005 4:59 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

found elsewhere, cut'n pasted:

Postby glubglubglub » Mon Oct 10, 2005 3:04 am

Life saving trivia. I heartily recommend saving this information.<br><br>1) It has recently been determined that most pulmonary illnesses are spread by hand contamination, not coughing or sneezing as previously believed. If you are out in public or around those who are during an outbreak, using alcohol-based hand sanitizer six times a day will reduce your chance of catching flu by 80%. If there is obvious contamination, use soap and water. Antiseptic soap is not significantly more effective than ordinary soap in this regard. Consciously force yourself not to touch your face in public until you have sanitized your hands.<br><br>2) The worst public sources for air and surface contamination are public restrooms and restaurants. Avoid them. Sanitize telephone handsets and often touched surfaces in work areas, especially doorknobs. Parts of automobile interiors can also be cleaned routinely.<br><br>3) There are several known effective OTC anti-virals, and several more that may help. Some non-toxic metals are powerful antiseptics and can be used for decontamination, such as the calcium found in grapefruit seed extract (available in health food stores). A few drops can disinfect a quart of water. A tablespoon can also be added to a humidifier for an air and room surface disinfectant. Larger amounts could be added to a swamp cooler to help sanitize an entire house. Even though you cannot eliminate contamination, you significantly improve your odds by reducing it.<br><br>4) Other metals are not directly anti-viral, but inhibit viral reproduction in some circumstances. Silver and zinc in the proper form and place can have this effect in the human body. Colloidal silver in a nasal spray, for one, and Cold-Eeze brand throat lozenges for zinc. Cold-Eeze is unique in this way, as its patented form of zinc is readily uptaken into the mucous membranes, unlike most zinc supplements. With FDA approval, it can state that it lessens severity and duration of colds and flu. Perhaps it can do more.<br><br>5) Most colds and flus reproduce in the sinuses and trachea, so it is important to keep them a less friendly environment for viruses. The use of ordinary saline nasal spray to reduce large build ups of mucous removes breeding medium. NOTE: avian flu is different, in that it can reproduce in several other organs, including the liver.<br><br>6) Another newly discovered trick that may work is ordinary store-bought cranberry juice, which has been determined to inhibit cellular adhesion by several viruses, in quantity. It is unknown if it would work for avian flu, but drinking copious amounts as a possible prophalaxis should not be too much an inconvenience, if that is all you've got to protect yourself with.<br><br>7) There will undoubtedly be shortages of several items once an outbreak has occurred. Surgical masks, protective glasses, latex gloves, sanitary wipes and rubbing alcohol may all become scarce, so it is not unreasonable to stock up now. Substitutes such as grain alcohol, sunglasses, etc. are almost as good. Remember that gloves only keep the contamination off of your skin. In turn they must be assumed to be contaminated and either cleaned or disposed safely.<br><br><!--EZCODE EMOTICON START 8) --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/glasses.gif ALT="8)"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> The vaccination priority that we are used to has been changed because of the severity of this illness. Instead of giving injections to the elderly, infirm and very young, the emphasis will be on school-aged children (the largest human vector of the disease), and in outbreak areas. It would be wise to familiarize yourself with traditional quarantine measures, as they can be unexpectedly harsh. In time of an epidemic, the Health Department can be authoritarian.<br><br>9) The avian flu also has a large number of animal vectors, and until these are determined for certain, it would be wise to avoid large assemblages of animals and birds, even dogs and cats. Already, some birds have been identified that can carry the disease for great distances without immediately dying. If domestic mammals do the same, it may amplify the contamination.<br><br>10) Flu vaccine takes from several days to two weeks for optimum immunity. This immunity may last perhaps six months or more in a healthy, young adult, and as little as two to three months in the elderly. A severe flu epidemic usually appears in two waves, and can last from one to two years. Therefore, a single shot may not be enough.<br><br>11) Symptomology of avian flu so far seems to indicate that death occurs very quickly, perhaps within 72 hours, and is often from blood and fluid build-up in the lungs. Though this sounds morbid, some people may die in public and it is important not to touch the body. An incapacitated person may spew large amounts of infectious fluids about. Do not attempt to render significant first aid, instead call 911.<br><br>12) Traditionally, government has been slow to react to epidemics, often waiting too long before instituting strong restrictions on the public. However, this can be deadly serious, even if ineffective. There may be circumstances where armed guards are used, and response to public panic may be severe.<br><br>13) It is unlikely that this winter's cold and flu season will be the avian flu. However, these weaker diseases should be your final warning as to your probability of catching the avian flu. If, in cold and flu season, you practice step #1 above and still catch either disease, you need to strongly reevaluate hygiene in your environment.<br>posted by kablam at 10:22 AM PST on October 9 <br> <p></p><i></i>
glubglubglub
 
Posts: 328
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2005 5:14 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: found elsewhere, cut'n pasted:

Postby israelirealities » Mon Oct 10, 2005 6:46 am

Oh my God...that doesn't help. I am strictly for quarantine habits, we seem to have stopped doing it, because everyone just has to go to work. <br>I went to my doctor today and grilled him about this flu. He laughed. His take - no need to worry yet about avian flu, its not even near. second, tamiflu is useless for avian flu. strongly recommends to take the vaccines against flu IF you have a tendency to develop complications. at the same time, I received a bit of a "lecture" on pulmunary stuff -<br>1. problem with virus - is secondary pneumonia - treated with antibiotics aggressively. AND for choking - steroids are still the best, and in bad cases take oral betansol. Preventive measures - daily inhallations of steroids for two months will keep your lungs wide open and breathing. <br>2. Avian flu - if it comes, is yet unknown because it hasn't yet mutated. No point in guessing. <p></p><i></i>
israelirealities
 
Posts: 385
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2005 8:47 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Next

Return to Health

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest