THELEMA

by **homelesshalo** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 12:20 am

This thread is being opened as a continuation of the Discussion on Crowleyanity and Thelema that I instigated in DE's new age thread. In that thread, my points on old Crow and Thelema can be summarised as follows: 1. Neither Crowley nor Thelema proper represent a form of Satanism. 2. Neither advocate pedastry/pedophilia or anything associated commonly with RA. 3. The American and British MIC have co-opted Thelema as their own pet religion for the NWO and have distorted its teachings nearly as well as they have those of other religions. 4. Thelema IS an elitist worldview. 5. Thelema is not inherently comingled with Illuminist plots to control and coerce the sheepish mass. 6. Thelemites do not worship Aleister Crowley. At least not in the sense that Christians worship Christ. 7. The sexual alchemies often referred to as the "great secret" of the OTO are indeed that, but they are not the final series of teachings. I think that is about as far as I'd gotten so far.

by **slimmouse** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 12:32 am

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>4. Thelema IS an elitist worldview. 5. Thelema is not inherently comingled with Illuminist plots to control and coerce the sheepish mass.<hr></blockquote> Well. Theres a contradiction in term if ever I heard one. Unless you subscribe to councils of 12, in which case, well see how superior "Thelemists" are <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/happy.gif ALT=":D"> - along with the rest of the "superiors" This is OUR planet. EVERYONES.

by **Homeless Halo** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 12:42 am

It depends on your definition of elitism. In Thelema it has nothing to do with aristocratic blood or old money. A person will be judged according to their own actions, the intent of those actions, and the results of those actions. True meritocracy. I have no problem with this sort of Elitism, indeed, I advocate its use in all areas of life. It is somewhat akin to Intellectual elitism, but leaves room for dumb people to prove themselves. It states elitism as fact: That is, the law of the strong, or Social Darwinism, before such a thing was commonplace. Might = Right. Not that those who are strong are more moral (Thelema is an amoralist worldview), but that those ideas which are more correct are naturally better than those ideas which are wrong. This is to say, that if Love is the Law, then it will eventually triumph over pretenders to its position. That the superior worldview (that which contains more truth) will inevitably brush aside its closest competitors. This is a fact of history. It is somewhat difficult to explain in moralist terms. Let me say, that just because one does not believe in "good" does not neccessarily imply that one will do what is "bad".

by **slimmouse** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 12:52 am

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>It depends on your definition of elitism.<hr></blockquote> Heres my definition of elitism. A myth. People who believe that they are something they arent. Intellectual anuses. How do you or I know more than a man who has fought and survived drought, tyranny and poverty, and can bring all those experiences into the human domain - to give but one example ? Heres my definition of Democracy. Councils of 12.

by **Homeless Halo** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 1:00 am

No councils of 12 here. In its current incarnation, that is, the sect (cabal) I am a member of, our branch has officially broken ties with the Caliphate OTO and their Illuminist allies, based on Crow's own definition of the Black Brotherhood and that it has become obvious that his "churches" now qualify. Indeed, many of them had even before his own demise. It seems the caliph and his cronies today are more concerned with keeping their bisexual tendencies secretive than they are with accomplishing Magnum Opus. They also spend a great deal of time, in collusion with the rightist Christers, at discouraging anyone from attempts to study Crow without them. Fortunately, there are a large number of people who have dissented from their organizations are now "initiating" their own offensives against these collaborators. I am a member of one of these groups, operating from the Detroit area, which has long had a large Thelemic presence (dating back to the Beast's vacationing here). While I am not a "high" initiate, I can say that I am better trained in these arts than the OTO has trained anyone in a number of years (about fifty). It is also true, that even amongst the Thelemics like myself, we have oaths of silence regarding certain subjects, but I doubt that this will impact our disscussions significantly.

by **biaothanatoi** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 1:03 am

For those who haven’t followed this, I am a carer for a woman who was ritually abused by a group of ‘masters’ with nine degrees (like the OTO) who practice ritual sex and alchemy (like Thelema) and harvest menstrual blood for their use (like Thelemites) from their ‘slaves’ (consider the Thelemite master/slave dichotomy). Today is Crowley’s birthday. Yesterday, I came home to find that someone had daubed my bedroom and hers with cow blood and organs. They had painted sigils on both our beds and written ‘whore’ in scarlet paint on her mirror. There was blood in a child’s “dinkee cup” on her bed. On to your points. > 1. Neither Crowley nor Thelema proper represent a form of Satanism. I don’t think we can usefully discuss occultism along strict ideological lines. Both Crowley and ‘Satan’ represent two nodes in the fluid occult continuum. Definitive statements are even less viable when we consider that Thelema, ‘Satanism’ and the diverse bodies that practice it are, by definition, secretive and initiatory. > 2. Neither advocate pedastry/pedophilia or anything associated commonly with RA. The ‘public face’ of a cult can be as diverse as a martial arts club or a yoga centre. I see no utility at all in connecting their practice with their rhetoric. > 3. The American and British MIC have co-opted Thelema as their own pet religion for the NWO The notion of the ‘NWO’ seems to me to be the reification of a collection of psychosocial forces that people have attributed motivation and shadowy actors to. > 4. Thelema IS an elitist worldview. Yup. > 5. Thelema is not inherently comingled with Illuminist plots to control and coerce the sheepish mass. Don’t believe in the Illuminati. > 6. Thelemites do not worship Aleister Crowley. At least not in the sense that Christians worship Christ. ‘Crowleyanity’ and Thelema are fairly indistinguishable from one another, particularly Thelema in its fundamentalist form.

by **Homeless Halo** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 1:03 am

I am not certain I've acquired your point, slim. councils of 12?

by **slimmouse** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 1:15 am

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>I am not certain I've acquired your point, slim. councils of 12?<hr></blockquote> OK. Lets go back a stage, and try and educate those amongst us who claim to be "superiors" ; What makes you superior in worldly terms to a guy who has survived war, famine and drought ? How do we incorporate such intellectually 'inferiors' into our learning process, lest we understand these people as what they are - namely more than you or I will probably ever be ? Councils of 12. Everyone has a voice. I mean EVERYONE. Not the "intellectual" - who in our reality manifest themselves as the well fed, well clothed, well looked after plebs like you and me - I mean EVERYONE. Those, in short who know NOTHING of life. You want some REAL spiritual awakening ? Councils of 12. Jesus and his gang, Arthur and the boys, and of course the JEDI knights - JEsusDIsciples.

by **Homeless Halo** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 1:16 am

I WAS guaranteed a series of attacks for posting this here. I won't be suprised, really. My point in approaching this topic at all, is that there is generally a lot of leeway given to "christians" for example, when someone here likes to link the neo-con agendas with the far right. I've seen no ground given to those such as myself who are deeply involved in the occult. Rarely are we given the benefit of doubt, even as a generalization. bio: I do not disagree with your points. My intent was to distinguish between the use and misuse/abuse of esoteric knowledge by those who claim initiation. Regarding Crowleyanity's indistinguishability from Thelema, the same could be said for any number of other religions as regards their founders. (Crowleymas is one of the reasons I decided to go ahead and do this despite the inevitable backlash) "I am a carer for a woman who was ritually abused by a group of ‘masters’ with nine degrees (like the OTO)" ---- (the OTO has 11 or 12 degrees, depending on which OTO we're talking about) ----- who practice ritual sex and alchemy (like Thelema) ----- Indeed. ----- and harvest menstrual blood for their use (like Thelemites) ----- true. ----- from their ‘slaves’ (consider the Thelemite master/slave dichotomy). ----- There is no master/slave dichotomy in Thelema. Forced sex would be in direct violation of Thelemic Law. And punishable by Death, by Thelemic Law, I might add.

by **Homeless Halo** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 1:21 am

Who claimed to be superior? I don't think I ever said that. Perhaps you misunderstood my post. I was not intending to say that some people are inherently better than others, but that some people are better disposed towards certain things than others and perform better in certain situations. I do not think this is even arguable, because, as I understand it, it is an assumption we've been making for thousands of years. No one made any claims of superiority here. You're projecting your own emotions.

by **biaothanatoi** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 1:32 am

> Regarding Crowleyanity's indistinguishability from Thelema, the same could be said for any number of other religions as regards their founders. Yes, but that is an irrelevant point. > There is no master/slave dichotomy in Thelema. I can accept that there is a range of opinions on this but I've read and heard from Thelemites who consider the master-slave distinction to be the central Thelemic axis. You say yourself that Thelema is an intrinsically elitest viewpoint, and you've spoken here of 'sheep'. One of the problems with RA is that we end up in theological debates about the *worth* of the doctrines within which children are ritually abused. I'm guilty of this, but those debates are utterly besides the point and I'd prefer to avoid it here. What I know right now is that today is Crowleymas and my bed is covered in bright red blood.

by **slimmouse** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 1:34 am

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Who claimed to be superior?<hr></blockquote> Aww. Come on. Are you a thelemist , by your own admission ? of course you are. Therefore, let me quote your doctrine - according to you !!!; 4. Thelema IS an elitist worldview. Or perhaps its just an 'outside observing' elitist world view? <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/ohwell.gif ALT=":\">

by **heyjt** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 3:08 am

Halo, Let's try again: Question for Halo -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In your above piece, you refer to a level of your practice that is based on / involves internal / external martial arts. I am very familiar with both and am curious specificly what you refer to. Taoist Alchemy? The paranormal skills as in the military book "Men Who Stare At Goats"? Or, if I may inquire without offending, is it something you aspire to without actually being trained in? Honest, no offense. But I know and have experianced how deep that practice goes. Also, Perhaps you could explain somthing that I am trying to understand: Where does Luciferian philosophy fit in and how would you describe it?

by **Homeless Halo** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 3:22 am

Don't what thou Won't Shall be the whole of the Law; ----------- I can accept that there is a range of opinions on this but I've read and heard from Thelemites who consider the master-slave distinction to be the central Thelemic axis. You say yourself that Thelema is an intrinsically elitest viewpoint, and you've spoken here of 'sheep'. ---------- I made reference to sheep in the context of comparing my beliefs to those of "Illuminism" that is "Philosophical Luciferianism" which is a common worldview, especially among esoterics. NOTE: In the statement you refer to I was stating something that is not neccessarily implied by Thelemism (although admittedly, there are "bad" people of all walks of life, which is more my point). I'm sure you've read and heard any number of things from Thelemites as regards the traditional functions of Thelema. I cannot comment on the expressed beliefs of any persons whom I am not aware of. But as above, the point is more that these attitudes exist in many worldviews and are not intrinsically attached to Thelema. ---------- One of the problems with RA is that we end up in theological debates about the *worth* of the doctrines within which children are ritually abused. I'm guilty of this, but those debates are utterly besides the point and I'd prefer to avoid it here. ---------- I'm not debating the "worth" of a doctrine "within which children are ritually abused", I am debating the "worth" of a doctrine to which a great many people who do not ritually abuse children subscibe. Children are ritually abused based on misinterpretations and/or misrepresentations of most faiths/worldviews if not all of them. My grievance is that it seems that any/all occultists are instantly equated with all sorts of vile activities which wouldn't even occur to most of us. I have personally, in my younger days, been offended to the point of feeling ostracized from communities such as these. I know, for I congregate with occultists, that this is a common feeling. I feel that by continuing these unspoken attitudes towards the occult and its practitioner in general (including "Thelemites" like myself), that both sides lose. The occultists spend years researching lots of the things you discuss, but often do not speak about them for fear of being equated with whomever the "wrongdoers" in question are. Nowadays, I don't get upset personally, as I've grown to expect that people will naturally distrust anything labelled "secret" even if those secrets are public information. I am somewhat distressed to see this practice to be as common here as it is in say, a religious discussion forum, especially considering that as "conspiracy theorists", people here should know better than to judge something based on what they've been selectively told. ---------- Therefore, let me quote your doctrine - according to you !!!; 4. Thelema IS an elitist worldview. Or perhaps its just an 'outside observing' elitist world view? --------- You completely don't understand, it seems. I mean elitist in the traditional "american" vernacular, before it was equated instantaneously with the baser natures of things, that is in a sort of self-independence. A refusal to deny the ego its place. The virtues of selfishness. Social Darwinism in that it recognizes the plain truth that humankind has benefitted as much from its conflicts as it has from its collaborations, and that it benefits much greater when these actions are informed, aware, and deliberate. It is like, Machiavelli for everyone. The Great Work as stated by the Beast Himself is the liberation of the Will of every creature. It is our contention that when man realizes that many of the things he is afraid of have always been part of him, he will cease to be afraid of them, and cease to be controlled by them. The Ritual Abuse practices fit the Definition of the stated misuse of the techniques (ritual, sexual, and secular), this misuse resultings in the "fracturing of ego's will", very similar to the states created in RA. What I'm saying is that in effect, RA is the opposite of Thelema goals, in its own definitions, and by its definitions anyone who participates in these practices are the eternal enemies of the Beast, and his modern contemporaries. I do not appreciate that my worldview should be described in such terms, either by outsiders nor by "insiders" so-called. Demonization of entire worldviews is not the best tactic if one is attempting to find the roots. You take the word of False Prophets if you would assume that Thelema is about abusing and controlling people. Why should one assume that obviously psychotically derranged people would have an accurate assessment of their own worldviews, much less those of the mainstream of the current? One of the reasons for this is simply because I would like to intelligently communicate with people who are interested in uncovering/demolishing the people who abuse my worldview to harm children (as I'm sure you would if your priest of whatever sort said Jesus told him to eat people). This is one of our commandments. To find these people and remove them. We consider them the greatest threat to our Great Work, and I know from experience that there are Thelemic elements which work counter to this goal, I left their temple once. Those who say "Will" and "Love" but teach "dependence" and "fear". Those that rule by intimidation and bullying are as false, and they are merely the puppets of their own masters. (curse them) I think you could miss the opportunity for knowledgable and fervent allies if/when you'd assume that all of them are out to get you and hurt your children. Most of them would rather your children were strong and free enough to tear down walls and fracture chains. Further, I am doing this for the chance to clarify the positions of the average, non-union(only celebrities and psycops/politicians join the OTO nowadays, and the occassionally the poor uninformed), Thelemite. Love is the Law, Daniel

by **Homeless Halo** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 3:41 am

(what is "heyjt" ?) As to your question, sorry, been busy: The reference in the old thread was in allusions from something OI said. Specifically he was talking about the Bi-Cameral brain. I am to say that this is very important in regards to third veil teachings of Thelema. as stated, the first veil is those silly ritual things with people in robes with swords and sticks and candles and such. You might, if you do it with a lot of fervor get about "prayer" level effects. Like OI's thoughtforms, or modern versions of "chaos magic". Sometimes these methods are conducted with the second veil rituals. the sex rituals. These have meaning in both the second and third veils. Normally the functions, outside of essentially chemically induced drugish effects from the tantric sex, sex fluids, which are used to "fetishize" (you do know what a "fetish" is in witchdoctery right?), that is to establish current to channel veil one magics. In the third veil, the sex fluids carry over into the first half. A number of elixirs are created (the one made from menstrual fluid was known to the Sumerians and Phonecians, at least, and is known today to engender elongations of cell life), and a number of "artifacts" can be created using the typical Rosicrucian alchemical techniques and obscure extracted materials (like palladiums from tear duct waste, that is, eye sand crystals) which when subjected to various stimuli can do remarkable things. (Like the glowing glass in the templar cathedrals) The third veil also introduces the "praeterhumans". The ETs of Thelema. Even Crow is obscure in regards to there things, but equates the ones who are good with the Annukaki/Biblical Angels and the bad ones with the Jewish Qlippothic realms. (No one really "believes" any of this, Thelema is an agnostic worldview, with a "scientific" approach to belief itself) The third veil internal and external practices have two goals, one to teach the mind to find its "path". And to balance the nervous system to induce full brain integration and "open the third eye", so to speak. Most of these practices are meditative, and they make up the introductory practices of the AA beyond 3* (which being public information, they don't care if I talk about, "they" being my cabal, the "caliphate oto" and its side projects, might sue me, however) They assume that communications can be established with these creatues, tentatively believed to be Sirians. And that communication can also be achieved with the "black hole" creatures, but it is unlawful. Crowley chastized Jack Parsons for his dabbling in the Qlippoths, and made motions to remove Hubbard from his religion. (oddly enough a recreation of the geometrical equivalent--common practice-- of Parsons "kaballah" on the tree of death and its connections to the tree of life, when extended into 3 dimensions, via Crow's method from L418 using the "enochian" systems--wait for it--will give you a three dimensional representation of a saucer shaped disc) Weird huh? Essesentially Thelemic 3d lvl magic consists of techniques to develop RV abilities as well as "tuning" the nervous system. These are combined with internal MARtial arts to develop the occult healing/killing powers. (I ain't there yet, but I can zap cats) Hope that doesn't explain anything. Cheers. Love the Law, Daniel

THELEMA

THELEMA

Re: THELEMA

depends

Re: depends

and no.

Re: depends

indeed?

Re: indeed?

gurp

who?

Re: gurp

Re: THELEMA

question; repeat

ok

heyjt

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