THELEMA

by **Homeless Halo** » Sat Oct 15, 2005 12:22 am

Rob: my jock? What exactly does that mean? Are you coming on to me? DE: Quick replies, as I have to go help a friend with her homework, and, hopefully it will take a while. regarding further red flags: no missing time since then, except during highschool, but there were obvious reasons for it. (self induced) no weird stories regarding new items, shifting personalities, or friends reporting odd behavior. one of the reasons they've told me I have functional asp synd. is because my mood doesn't change. I am sort of "too calm" most of the time. no voices, although I saw weird things once on DPT that told me they the secrets of the universe. (weren't the first secrets of the universe I'd ever heard) Although I talk to myself sometimes, but not as in conversations with myself. I ask myself questions, but I don't get any answers. As for the sense of experiencing reality as if it isn't actually happening, well, yeah, but its been like that as far back as my memories go (about 2 1/2yrs old). I'm told its a common perception for people that have the other symptoms I have (which were also there before my experiences with the military's "gifted" program), so I'm not really worried about it. If it happened sometimes and not all the time, maybe I would be. I actually wrote a movie script about this perception. I don't "think" I have DID. Of course, I probably wouldn't "know" if I did, but I don't display any of the traditional symptoms, such as mood shifts and bizarre behavioral patterns. Just the sense of unreality, and I have always dealt with this. Thank you for your thoughts, it is something I will consider, but I'm of the opinion that I haven't experienced anything remarkably traumatizing, just a few really strange things. Actually, now that I think about it, I do have one experience with "missing time" since then, a couple years back, but it wasn't just me, and I remember what I was doing seamlessly (as do the other two involved) and it just seemed as if too much time had passed. This may just be a fluke though. Cheers, SHCR Love is the Law, Under Will.

by **Dreams End** » Sat Oct 15, 2005 12:34 am

that was an inside joke. the link was to an article he wrote...I called his real name a pseudonym. I guess you still haven't found your man...

by **robertdreed** » Sat Oct 15, 2005 12:36 am

I put love side by side with will...makes for a formidable combination. Or perhaps "impregnable" is a more fitting term. Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=robertdreed>robertdreed</A> at: 10/14/05 11:04 pm

by **bamabecky** » Sat Oct 15, 2005 12:58 am

Interesting Conversation going here........ I'm in awe of your intellect (and others that post here as well) I have a Masters in Social Work, but I'm no where near the intellect of this league! My question is at age 11 you discovered that the world is not what you thought it was. I'm 55 and discovering the same. Is it to private and personal for you to elaborate on that experience? I'm currently reading my first David Icke book and would like to thank those who encouraged me to read his work. Have you read his work HH? Any comments? I am aware that others here are not appreciative of his work. So please don't waste time repeating the earlier comments. (speaking to others who have already told me what they think of David Icke). Thanks. An HH, are there any other books along this line that you would recommend I have never heard of Thelema till I read this thread. I too have worked with victims of SRA. I believe that I'm an old soul, but I still have fear. I know full well the danger of the groups discussed here. I spend my free time alerting the community leaders here "to the goings on of the cabal". I have given away 40 books to date and countless DVDs and CDs. Bama

by **Project Willow** » Sat Oct 15, 2005 1:44 am

I am just now catching up on the rest of this thread. DE, you have no idea how nice it is to read things I would usually say from another source, such as your point about false or screen mems. I wouldn't entirely agree that the information available on ra is in the same state as that on mc. There is much more documentation on ra in the public domain, and it goes back farther. I think the major problem at this point is which sources receive the most attention. About mc, it might help to know that many who went through the programs have gotten free, it's just that they do not wish to go public. The denial and ridicule, the risk to career and family are too great. So we are lacking a broader base of accounts. Somewhere in another thread someone said that witness accounts should not be taken as proof. Posts on a public board may be a different issue, but given that the mc programs were intended to be secret, that standard almost cancels out our ability to expose them. At least with accounts of mc we have caregiver testimony to help with validation. That's actually important because we aren't just dealing with memories there, we're dealing with very specific behaviors, thought patterns, and personality characteristics which change over the course of treatment. I don't think infiltrating an ra group would even be possible, as one would likely be forced to commit crime. HH, I want to tell you that if you have been through an mc program, you would be trained to be unaware of missing time, and you would be trained to tune out internal voices. It's quite possible you would not know, and your life experience could still appear to flow seamlessly. It took me until my early thirties to be able to put a name to a feeling I had always had, but tried to ignore -fear. That's how out of touch I was with my own being, although I always believed myself to be extremely self aware. It's a very odd existence. It's difficult to pin down as we can't qualitatively compare our internal reactions to life experiences with those of others. You should also know that Detroit has been a center for both occult activity and mind control ops at least since the 1950's. A significant proportion of the survivor community comes from Michigan.

by **israelirealities** » Sat Oct 15, 2005 2:44 am

I think I am way behind you all in the intricacies and finer distinctions. I was referring to MC, not SRA (now that I see your distinctions, i understand this is important. I kinda of felt the two are connected, apparently not always, but in ISrael there was a feeling that at least some of the activities overlap in terms of where it originates.) ==== HH thanks for the kind invitation to Detroit...when all else fails..who knows...might prefer to be eaten by some american sorcerers and witches rather than by Israeli child fucking generals..we are free to choose our death :-) ---------- PW, oh, there is a lot of evidence here I think that's not the missing link, but the corruption is SO universal here, one cannot think of an authority that will deal with it. I know the situation is not so different in the USA, despite the church comittee and some successful lawsuits, these groups are still "above the law" most of time most of the places. I know of two different initiative to take a methodical approach - one is sponsored by a therapist who has 4-5 victims as clients. He is doing OK in terms of spreading the word among professionals etc., but in terms of law and the politics of the situation he believes that THERE IS no point, so he is not even trying that direction. I also agree that MC survivors are around and living a free life more or less after their usefulness expired. The other initiative is by an ISraeli-German human rights group who have been collecting evidence, testimonies etc., and have publicized stuff in a newsletter. At the time being they are sharing info and becoming more informed. They are more interested in the technology, like those machines that can plant voices and what not, and taking this route as a starting point, namely, getting sort of "scientific"/engineers to help them sort it out. I published an academic paper here 3 years ago, where in the footnotes I introduced the issue (so as not to be considered a "nut case"), namely, the MKultra committee and the law that was enacted thereafter, prohobitting human experimentation in secret services and the formation of a special sub committee etc. there was "no comment" from the academic or non academic community in Israel (there was an inquisitive response from an academic in Canada, who works in critical psychology etc, who sent me some foot notes on the Cameron case, and said this is very dangerous to deal with.). Other than that = nada. BTW, the post in my blog - lots and lots of "entries' (Many people read it) and not even ONE comment (even a troll would be welcome, just to break the silence). Nada. As for them being sloppy...i don't see it as sloppy so much as being overly secure in their situation, namely, KNOWING they are immune even if they kill in the streets at broad daylight. -------------------------- My intuitive assessment of the situation in terms of "doing something" here is - not a chance to succeed. Secondly, the issue must be tackled from the USA vis a vis the USA. Namely, the umbrella of protection for this activity comes from Washington (at least with regards to ISraeli activity) AND, the technology for MC is American based. AND = finally, your democracy is the only one ABLE to respond somehow to this problem, either by press or legal proceedings. Our contribution here in ISrael can be with providing some missing links, evidence, testimony, data and joining hands, namely, as I said if there was a legal proceeding in the USA going on, I would join hands and use my old inactive Bar membership in California to take on parts of the job, talk to press, whatever. I think the MC situation, reflects precisely the weird symbiosis between the US darker forces and the ISraeli involvement, as in other issues that appear here in the website as well. Cooperation between us can make it harder on the perps, we can share info. PErhaps the US is using ISrael as a huge Gitmo, and also when things are tough they might be sending people/key evidence over here and vice versae, using Israeli perps when they need people who will come and go, hit and run, etc in the USA. This compartmentalization makes it harder to pin down the perps. Just a thought. The perps i saw are fairly young technical people namely with computer education or science education (psycho/neurosience/pharma..) who all have dual citizenship from the USA/Canada in addition to their Israeli citizenship ! and speak native English as well as Hebrew...makes you wonder. However, recently i think Israel developed an independent capacity and there are projects with non americans/english speakers both as victims and perps.

by **Dreams End** » Sat Oct 15, 2005 2:56 am

Thanks PW...for filling in some holes, there. I don't want to push the "you are an mc victim" on anyone...but...those red flags. He has backed off his terminology or rephrased I should say about "infiltrating" RA groups. He clarifies it to mean mainly networking with groups and getting the word out and looking for bad guys that way. Not really the James Bond like activity I think we all pictured from the initial phrasing. Interesting about Michigan as a center for this. One of the centers associated with Colin Ross is there. I wonder about your opinion of him. Is he backing off his SRA and MC are real? I actually called that hospital because it's near my wife's sister and thought it might offer some hope. They seemed nice and talked to me a long while but kept saying "we don't deal with memories." I kept trying to ask what that meant, especially as memories emerge and he just kept repeating it and saying "it's not appropriate." I think the FMSF has them pretty scared.

by **Project Willow** » Sat Oct 15, 2005 3:55 am

IR The situation here is the same, some advocacy groups collecting evidence, writing, doing presentations. I agree with your point about action having to come from here, but not sure how to go about it either, especially in the state we are in. I know well the "nada" response. It happens on a personal level too, it's just so overwhelming, frightening to the core for people. It's very, very difficut to put someting out that feels so critical and to get no to little response. I've learned to prefer silence to the "you are a nut" look however. DE I haven't tracked Ross in a couple of years. He actually became a member of the FMSF and may still be. He denied the existence of ra also, but I don't know his current opinion on it. I can't imagine he's backed off of mc, not after writing Bluebird. I would definitely say he's operating out of some level of fear, he surely gave the alphabet agencies a pass in Bluebird. From the Ross Institute: <blockquote>Quote:<hr>The Problem of False Memories Our position at the Ross Institute is that patients need to be responsible for their own thoughts, feelings, behavior, and memories. It is not our task to either "validate" memories or conclude that they are not real. We work with the patient to help him or her sort out the reality of the past as best as possible. The content of the memories is not our primary focus; the healing elements of the treatment are in the process and structure, not in the content.<hr></blockquote> Whole page on memories: <a href="http://www.rossinst.com/mem.htm">www.rossinst.com/mem.htm</a> Intersting language. The problem with the neutrality concept is it's so very important to be believed about what actually happened in order for us to heal emotionally. There's a fine line I suppose, or is there?

by **israelirealities** » Sat Oct 15, 2005 3:59 am

Do any of you know Ross Cheyt ?*hope I get the name right. He is a political scientist at Brown, who filed a law suit re being abused in a summer camp or something like that, and won the proceedings and then became involved in the issue of memory and stuff.

by **israelirealities** » Sat Oct 15, 2005 4:53 am

PW, I have no idea what should and can be done further in the USA that has not been done or tried yet. I would instinctively think to do the same but better and again. Namely, get it out there. I think what is missing is a good political link, namely, a case that involves a strictrly political issue, like proving Bush et al used mc to knock out a political rival. Or sometihng that involves ISrael/war/Iraq whatever, because then you get a much wider support and meaning to it. It has to hook up to another more pressing issue, because it appears that as it is, nobody gives a damn. You are right about silence being better than attacks. I suppose at the moment these are the only two options. I had thoughts that Aspergar is a syndrome the perps like or induce somehow. I was worried to see new projects in public hospital soliciting parents to seek treatment for infants (2 months old...and up) who seem to have "communication problems" and autism. how can a 2 months old have anything like that ? the doctor in charge of one of those projects "for the public" is constantly appearing as connected to "stuff", he is a child psychiatrist. They promise a close monitoring for years, and I already see them drooling...and the poor hysterical parents pouring in with the sacrificial lambs...brrrr. OK, for today this is enough, I am becoming annoyed and so I will check out for a while. this is enough to chew on, and I decided to check out from internet message boards for a while.So, have a good time :-)

by **jenz** » Sat Oct 15, 2005 5:49 am

relieved to see there is a coming together of minds on the gung ho aspects of resistance, as usual, others have summed this up more succintly than I. HH missing time - I endorse what PW said about you may not know. a personal example which springs to mind is that when a survivor of the same group who spent/wasted some time messing with my mind, told me of a specific ra instance when I was present - I at first thought that I had only been in that location for a long weekend. Hauling out bank statements etc (I hoard these things for years!) showed me that it was a week. I have no memories of the rest of that time, not even the harmless kind, can't call up significant details of the place, etc. IR - can't find words full enough to express the feelings i have for your situation. I have not posted to any internet site before here, because in general I use it as an information source, and so inevitably find that everyone on the site knows more than me, or that the site is not interesting. this is semi true of RI., but I started to post when Biao wrote about some experiences which were, it seemed to me, being treated dismissively, by responders who did not ( somewhat to my surprise) seem to know what I had assumed was general knowledge about ra. I don't have a great fund of political knowledge, and was comfortably asleep until about 6 years ago, slept through ra attack, despite having a flashback. the subsequent time has been a chaotic period of running to stay still, so what I heard about belgium came at first, 5 years ago, when I was too overwhelmed to be efficiently filing stuff. So I have to rely on a flaky memory of the bits that stuck. Maybe there is someone else who can fill this in or correct it if its wrong. The source I trust btw - kind of person who reads widely in several languages - just for love of being informed. told me that there had been a trade off to get Sharon out of the embarassment of a prosecution for war crimes there. the Isreali secret services had kindly agreed not to let the world know who (in Belgian govt circles etc) Dutroux was supplying. Fairly recently I got a sort of confirmation of this from a different source, but also one I trust, a person who has researched the Police files in Belgium. When the first Belgian prosecutor had inconveniently found the girls alive and continued to investigate meaningfully, a number of witnesses came forward - some not giving names, a few (known as the x's ) prepared to testify. Of these Regina Louf, on becoming dis-satisfied with the progress, went public. Amongst other things, she gave information about the life of a girl who was murdered at the mushroom farm, the period before she was killed but after she had been acquired by the perpetrators. This information was very distressing to the girls family, in so far as it could have been interpreted that the girl had agreed to things which they certainly felt she would not have. (nothing unusual here for those who know about abuse). The family were enabled by donation to hire a lawyer who had a high profile presence both in defending victims of trafficking, and also in defending criminals. This lawyer was very effective in debunking Louf's testimony, and that of the other x's - at least to the satisfaction of the public, who more or less seemed to have taken her word for it. She was also Sharon's lawyer. Perhaps there are people reading this who have efficiently filed away this story and can rake it over for us. I tried to flag it up when someone posted the story about an Isreali military having to stay on the plane in London for fear of arrest, and the amusing report of a conversation Blair was supposed to have had with Sharon . designed I assume to make us all think that abandoning international responsibility for chasing up war crimes would be a jolly good thing because at the moment military men and even national leaders from friendly states (even Good Lord, Brits who have been in Iraq) can run the risk of prosecution for their actions. When I raised this in this context, the response seemed to suggest that what I said might be interpreted as anti jewish. I don't have this kind of agenda. my only agenda is to make the world better for all peoples by frustrating the actions of people who hurt children. Hence my surprise at the notion that people in Isreali govt. had agreed to infiltrate ra groups with view to exposure, which I read in your post, and my musing about where permission to do that might have come from. Be safe IR.

by **robertdreed** » Sat Oct 15, 2005 5:53 am

By all means, take some time off, and time out. My advice is to find a place of calm and natural beauty, and take a walk with your shoes off. Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=robertdreed>robertdreed</A> at: 10/15/05 3:54 am

by **Homeless Halo** » Sat Oct 15, 2005 6:25 am

Lots of stuff to comment on. I was pleasantly forgetting about these ideas for the last several hours, but as she is asleep, I have time for a few thoughts. Rob: Sorry we couldn't get together, I thought you might be the one. In Thelemic terms, the "Law" of Thelema is subject to QBL analysis, that is, LOVE = WILL. Which means it could just as easily be phrased vice versa, that is, Love is equally important to Will from the Thelemic worldview (which essentially boils down to Christianity via Melchizadek's boat cult). This could further be demonstrated with Hebrew numerology (QBL) as Crow himself was known to do. That is, we are in perfect agreement as to the supremacy of love, in equality with perfect will. bamabecky: Icke is fascinating, not just because he has so much useful information but because he is absolutely insane from acquiring too much knowledge too fast. This is not a slight, many brilliant people are also insane. I find him hard to digest all at once, but he puts lots of the pieces in place that would take much longer if you read it in a more "sane" fashion from other writers. Just don't let Icke suck you in too much, make sure you fact check his references, and take two grains of salt with anything there isn't a clear reference for or which references another "conspiracy" book. My recommended reading list grows every day, I have occassionally entertained the idea of posting it in a place like this, but I'm afraid the NSA would simply adapt their list to include the books they missed. <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/wink.gif ALT=";)"> Thelema is the greek word for WILL and is the philosophy/religion/code of Aleister Crowley and many occultists who have followed the rough path he cut. It is highly disliked by Christianity, but is considered acceptable by the average mainstream occultist, as it is merely a synthesis of a variety of occult doctrines and initiation techniques, "coupled" with libertine sexual alchemy. As to my 11 reference, I was that old. PW: I don't know that I was through a MC program, just that I was in a program that is often associated with such things, and that I'm missing time from these testing sessions. It is entirely possible I lost time simply because of how bored I was. I don't remember all the time from regular school either, and I doubt most people do. However, I know that I do not have the traditional symptoms of trauma based programming, including DID, and that my asp. tendencies were much stronger when I was child, for many years before I entered this program. I know that I can objectively account for enough of the time I've experienced since then that it is unlikely that they've been able to use me for MC ops, etc. If they shell programmed me, they did an admirable job, far more seamless than the "supposed" (not that I neccessarily disbelieve them, but that I don't trust anyone) RA victims I have personally met. Yes, Detroit has long been part of the occult current (Crow lived here for a bit), there is also a high degree of UFO activity here (Windsor, the "other half" of Detroit, has a statue of a saucer, and a plaque inviting "them" to come back sometime). Detroit heavy occult history makes it perfect for the activities I've described previously. As far as MC goes, it wouldn't suprise me, as there is rumblings of CIA involvement in the cocaine trade in "crack town". "Crack Town" makes up various strips of the inner city, burned out during the fires and riots and decommissioned as "no mans lands". Only the junkies go there(even the cops don't). Sometimes well dressed men in unmarked cars are reported. IR: You're welcome to visit anytime. Let me know, and we can hook you up. This goes for anyone who isn't a spook. OH ALRIGHT, spooks too, I guess. When I was poking around the "odd activities" I'd previously mentioned as going on in OH, along with some friends from the area, we were warned by the Park Ranger and County Sheriff BOTH to let it go. We considered it. As far as the sloppiness goes, as you said, I think of it more in terms of blatant arrogance (like the "sloppy" coverups of famous psyops like JFK), than in terms of inability to conceal their activities. I think they "think" they are untouchable. As the scriptures say: "Pride goeth before destruction, and a haughty spirit before a fall" Let them be arrogant, it will make it far easier to eventually nail them down. DE: Infiltration, is still a correct term, in that it isn't "public" information. The primary purpose is for general "occult" reasons and also to gather "esoteric" intelligence regarding the belief systems of said groups. It would be unsavory to actually join in RA, and psychologically damaging, but already we have found links in cults that appear to be connected to similar practices. (when this happens the tactic at present is to unveil this link and induce schism, to remove the cover by destroying the cult as a thing-in-itself) Unfortunately, even with conclusive evidence the public sector seems unwilling to even address the problem, much less deal with it. I still believe it will come down to individuals forcing change one fire at a time. Since our collective is already so widespread, the "watch" groups are scattered all over the world, fairly independent, which means I couldn't give you specific information on some of these people even if I wanted to. This is done, compartmentalization, because it makes it more difficult to stop. Killing me would accomplish nothing for them, as there is no figurehead to this movement and it is already remarkably widespread and infectious(occultists love conspiracies, especially being in them). We have learned from our enemies. (they say the devil's arms...) "False memory" is losing credibility among a lot of mainstream psychologists. As my own teacher of Psych as medical science said "all memories are false memories, there's no difference and no way to tell the difference if there was", which is the point. Some of the smarter clinical psychs are starting to realize that from a neuronal point of view, there is no distinction between different kinds of memories. They all got there somehow, and are equally important as they are interconnected. ------ Thank you all for your thoughts, this dialogue has been constructive already, at least for me. I should like to reiterate that I am of the opinion that I was one of the lucky ones who slipped through the cracks of the MC programs. If not, they did a damned good job on me, and it is possible you are in far more danger than I am, because I know what I am capable of without any outside influence. I'm certain that if they did not MC me, they will eventually come to wish they had. I'dve made an excellent MONARCH. Cheers. -SHCR, OAO

by **israelirealities** » Sat Oct 15, 2005 6:45 am

Jenz, just a final comment before I take RobertReed's advice and take long walk along the beach to relax and ground myself for a week or two off the web, and that's about this connection with Sharon's lawyer. very interesting point and i think this is worth looking into here. I will check it out myself, namely, the name of the lawyer googled with the pedophile ring scandal and corroborate your suggestion. I think if this is true with regards to the lawyer's identity, it is well worth bringing up here for people to contemplate. The "deal" you mention makes sense. However, having said taht, Sharon is still (ehm ehm) not the only person with power here, and there is a delicate balance of power among the various factions, as is always the case. So, other power strongholds might still have sufficient power to do something about it even if Sharon's gang opposed. Same happens everywhere, even within law enforcement/intel community, you can find honest people...and they can exert some power, and some times enough power to bring down those tyrants. I can think of an extortion deal getting Sharon off the hook, but we can speculate about the contents. Even if ISrael extorted Belgium with information that would embarrass the high ups there, this would be WRONG, from my perspective. They should blow this whole belgium thing rather than strike deals of this sort. But thanks for the reference. This is not anti Jewish. However, consider that not all the Jews and maybe not even the majority condone pedophiles, or RA/MC, the same as not all US citizens condone Bush. Mostly, we become hostages in the hands of bad people. You should give that much credit to any nation, Jews more than others, as we have a tendency to trust the wrong people, either our own, or outside. I prefer for this information to be treated here, or anywhere rather than being hushed. Because , basically, hushing stuff only harms victims, everywhere. So, if you have more on that, PM me always, will be happy to pass it on :-) to the sheeple of ISrael :-((

by **Homeless Halo** » Sat Oct 15, 2005 7:15 am

Bam: When I was 11, my first encounter with the actual world began. It was at this time that I entered the program I mentioned above. Other things happened around the same time, which have deeply impacted my personality, although at present I am not interested in discussing them in this place. No offense intended. Since then, things have gotten progressively stranger, although not always "scarier". Some of the strange has been exceedingly pleasant. And worse things have happened to me, even if I AM a MC subject. Everyone has good times and bad times. My experiences have sometimes trended towards the extremes of each. (my intellect, btw, is synthetic, mostly a result of the "block reading" that I've done since childhood, supposedly common in asp and related syndromes, which has allowed me to become a record level info junkie, this is not to say I do not have above average intelligence, just that this has little to do with the variety of subjects I am deeply interested in) You are among a number of exceedingly intelligent and aware people while you are on this BB. I have been here a relatively short amount of time (posting anyway), and have already learned many things I'd never heard of. -------- IR, where do you go to relax? (if you're gone already, I'll ask you when you get back) Personally I go to southern ohio, where my extended family is from. We still own a large stretch along the ohio river. I like to watch the ufo's there in the summer time. Mothman sightings are still common in this area. (I won't tell you about mine, because you'd make fun of me<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/indifferent.gif ALT=":|"> ) it is a good thing to get away for a bit and unwind. Someday I intend to leave "this" world for the wilderness and never return. Until that day, SHCR

THELEMA

got milk?

Re: got milk?

Will who?

Homeless Halo

DID, MC, other issues

Re: DID, MC, other issues

Re: DID, MC, other issues

Re: DID, MC, other issues

Re: DID, MC, other issues

Re: DID, MC, other issues

concensus

israelirealities

coming back around again

Re: concensus

mmm

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