Question on the power underlying the occult.

by **banned** » Sat Nov 05, 2005 1:06 am

...you're doing a lot better in English than I could do in Serbian <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/happy.gif ALT=":D"> . I'm from Cleveland, by the way, which I once read has the biggest population of Serbs outside Serbia. Actually I started this thread to get other peoples' viewpoints. In the first post in the thread I gave my leanings, but I haven't made up my mind. I haven't had much to do with the occult (having been raised Catholic <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/wink.gif ALT=";)"> I was told to avoid it) so I don't really understand what the 'powers' are that are being invoked. Some people say there aren't any, that the adepts or their victims are the source of whatever happens--for example, in voodoo, the practitioner makes a scary curse, the victim believes in it, and is 'scared to death.' These people don't believe there's any outside power that the practitioner focuses on the victim that actually has an effect on them. Now, having had attacks by beings (whom I, having been raised in the Christian framework I was just ranting about, assumed were demons) sitting on my chest and lying on my back, I suppose the 'no outside power' folks would say that I imagined the experiences, dreamt them, misinterpreted a normal phenomenon (not sure what 'normal phenomenon' mimics someone sitting on your chest pulling your hair, of course.) The explanations of what I have actually experienced that rely on telling me these things didn't happen exactly as I remember them strike me as false, but then, if I had such an active imagination I could imagine that stuff so vividly, obviously it would be convincing. So I'm asking peoples' opinions on whether in fact there are evil powers, or whether there is just POWER which evil people can invoke to have evil effects (I know exactly who sent that demon after me, though I didn't at the time.)

by **ivanbo2003** » Sat Nov 05, 2005 1:57 am

First,I had an A in English(in high school <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/pimp.gif ALT=":hat"> ),so i get by pretty well,but can't "compete" with Americans<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/happy.gif ALT=":D"> IMO There are for sure evil powers(different from good) that some(bad) person(s) can invoke.Someone cursed u(or something like that),and u were attacked by an evil spirit.I won't get into Christian stuff again,so i'll try to give my oppinion in different way:SOMETHING(multitudes) in other realm is lurking and waiting an invitation;when invited it feeds on fear(primarly),chaos and destruction.For sure,the invoker will have to be from the start(mentally) deranged person...The entity(or plural) tend to attack people in sleep(or make them believe they were attacked in sleep?!?).Probably the whole event was not "physical",but spiritual>then the victim is led to believe it was struck in bed,during a night walk in forest...In your case,you know the best what happened. Question:How u defended yourself?Did it last long? In Eastern parts of Serbia there are many myths about creatures from the woods(demon-like) that scare and take away little children and even grown man;different kinds of creatures;dating back in 1600s PS Here in Belgrade is 5 am,i have to sleep,starting to make funny typo mistakes<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/tired.gif ALT="|I"> PS2 Cleveland is one of the biggest "Serbian" cities out of Serbia<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/roll.gif ALT=":rollin"> ,after Chicago,Seattle and NY Cheers

by **banned** » Sat Nov 05, 2005 2:04 am

...was to repeatedly invoke the name of Jesus Christ <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/embarassed.gif ALT=":o"> What can I say, if it works, use it. I also kept repeating that I was not afraid of them, that they weren't scary but just pathetic little loser buggers. I mean, how would you like to spend your afterlife being told by some black magician to go pull somebody's hair and having to do it. It's depressing to think that the non-physical realm is full of such entities who are I guess the etheric equivalent of inbred white trash from a low end trailer park. I suppose if I had a visit from a Miltonic Lucifer, I would be scared shitless, but he'd have to do more than pull my hair or sit on my back...fire, brimstone, giant black batwings, the whole 9 yards. Even that in this age of movie SFX seems kind of cheesy. I see more evil in Dick Cheney's sneer or Bush's smirk than in all the pyrotechnics.

by **Homeless Halo** » Sat Nov 05, 2005 4:21 am

ivanbo: Glad I apologized in advance. If english is not you're first language, then you have a more than adequate excuse for being minimalist in your writing style. I will clarify: "real" as in, not someone else on this board pretending to be "you". That is, we seem to have a rash of "new" people here, and not all of them are really "new". See? (Me, well, I'm actually new, been here a couple weeks, but I've read enough of the archives here to feel like I know these people) My intent is not to dissuade you from your own beliefs, but rather to encourage you to not to assume that anyone who professes non-christianity simply does not know christianity, especially when confronting americans. I see television commercials everyday that tell me I'm going to hell. We have three network religion channels here. (thats just over the airwaves) I'm innundated with religion, so I tend to have knee-jerk reactions to attempts to evanglize me. This is mostly because I used to be an evangelical, many moons ago. So my polemic is vaguely personal. No offense meant, and I hope none was taken. You'll find that I'll insult you more the better I like you. (Dream's End is my favorite person here) I don't usually bother to argue with boring people. Too lazy. I cut my internet discussion "teeth" on Faith/Religion boards, and this has had more than a small effect on my tendency to be overbearing and honestly, much too vague. ------- banned: The problem with the "misinterpreted normal phenomena" theory is when it coincides with actual curses. Say I put a curse on you and don't tell you I did, and you see my friend "clausewitz" sitting in your freezer making your tofu hot dogs mold. How does that work? I've heard *cough* that the best time to send an egregore after a person is while they're asleep. The hypnagogic state can induce "contact" without outside intervention. With it, you can almost guarantee it. In Voodoo, and a number of "grey" arts, there are no "good" or "evil" powers, because no one has a monopoly on morality at either polarity. The God, YHVH, in the BIBLE even, has "evil spirits" he sends(to torment Saul, for example). I tend to focus more on the individual and their personal intent when judging the "nature" of the spook. Of course, some spooks aren't created intentionally, but are agressive because they manifest as a result of deep trauma and/or adolescent angst in "tuned" individuals (poltergeists are usually of this variety). Even in this sense, I do not recognize good and evil as things in themselves, but rather individualist framing of events based on inbuilt "valuing" systems. Example: Does Dick Cheny THINK he is evil? OR does he think he serves the natural order? Which is true? Which is more "natural"..."good" or "evil"...? Of course, there are also a variety, a majority perhaps, of entities that do not fit into either category. Michigan, in the Detroit area, has been beset with "dwarves" for a long time. Since before the white man came here. These guys are mildly mischievous, but haven't been known (so far as I've heard) to have intentionally harmed or frightened anyone. Just funny little guys with strange hats and lil booties. If you give them a quarter, they'll tell you your fortune. Expect "magic 8 ball" level of response. Perhaps the "demons" sitting on your chest, were sent by your "friend" but you misinterpreted their advances. Perhaps their hair pulling was merely some form of extradimensional foreplay, and they were merely trying to get freaky with you. Perhaps the name of "Jesus" didn't "frighten" them, but they left because they thought that meant you were a square and they knew they weren't gonna get any... Just saying, y'know? Whereas the Miltonesque Lucifer, would indeed be far more imposing, I doubt that he'd feel any of us to be sufficiently threatening to him that he'd harm us. I think he and I would likely get on pretty well. I could take him to the club, introduce him to some girls who not only wouldn't MIND his bat wings but actually would...

by **monster** » Sat Nov 05, 2005 4:45 am

, probably only of interest to me. But I had been reading Psychic Discoveries Behind the Iron Curtain, or some such, and they were saying how one person could put another person to sleep. It worked time and time again, and all they did was really focus and visualize the person getting drowsy. Also, I'd heard the anecdote that Aleister Crowley would follow a person on the street, and mimic their movements, and then like trip or something, and that person would trip also. Anyway, I decided to try it the next day, in the mall where I was working at the time. There were three girls in front of the clothing store right across from my store. I mentally called one of them... I imagined her, visualized her, having an irresistable urge to come over into my store. I kept it up for a minute or two. Well, she walked away with her friends out of sight. I thought, oh well, whaddyagonnado. But then... I swear... she came around the corner, looking confused, like unsure of herself, and she just peeped her head into the store, and looked at a little vending machine we had there, like she just wanted to see what it was, glanced up at me and left. I tell you, it was the greatest feeling, I felt like a sorcerer or something! I could see that even she was confused as to why she wanted to come into the store, but she just had to do it. I think in other words, she perceived my suggestion to be her own thought. But I tried it, and it worked, it really did work. It won't work with everybody, though, only certain types. For my next experiment, I think I'm going to see if I can influence one of my professors. I'm going to visualize a certain portion of the room as being very hot, like an oven, and see if they avoid that spot or act different around it. [that was a little off-topic, here's my attempt to make it relevant] So, in conclusion, I agree with Homeless Halo that the intent is what's important, we can all send out good vibes or evil vibes, i.e. the United Mental Force ( just finished watching Rosemary's Baby for the first time <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/sick.gif ALT=":x"> great flick )

by **Homeless Halo** » Sat Nov 05, 2005 5:00 am

Choose to believe this or not: Back a couple years ago, a couple "associates" of mine and myself would take DXM in unsafe dosages and after settling in, go to the mall. We found that people are easy to "steer" in the mall. Much easier than somewhere else. Try it on a mall worker, and you'll find they're more difficult than shoppers. Something to do with the "Herd mind" I think. Used to spend hours doing this. I've gotten better since then, and can do it "directly" easier than I could before. A lot of study of mine has benefitted greatly by combining "old" techniques with reworked parapsychical research. (A similar anecdote to Crowleys is in "Liber Null and Psychonaut" by Peter Carroll, chaos magician, and his moving of "monks", who I'd assume would be easy too. Until they became aware of you, that is) This is only the beginning, it gets much more dangerous as you continue practice.

by **anotherdrew** » Sat Nov 05, 2005 5:10 am

somek ind of religious text? jk banned - that's a mighty odd experiance you had. Of course, you got rid of it by chanting J.C. but what else did you have a chance to try? Repeating "cheese and onions... oooo hooo, cheese and onions" might have worked too. Anyway the J.C. figure has meaning for most people even if they don't buy into any of the organised god-clubs, just from hearing about it as a kid and seeing it around growing up. I can't imaging seeing something like that, "on me" and not doing a quick grab-fling manuver... what was it like when you tried? not able to move? Yeah, well magic-powers I'm not too clear on, but there do seem to be non-physical entities "out there." I'm not at all sure that what you met is fully representative of the population, perhaps it was a homunclus (ie. not really alive just a sort of robot like thing). here is a link to a site where-in is sort of a diary of one person's experiences over a number of years. It's a lot to wade thru tho but you might like it. <a href="http://www.firedocs.com/bewilderness/">www.firedocs.com/bewilderness/</a>

by **monster** » Sat Nov 05, 2005 5:29 am

This is only the beginning, it gets much more dangerous as you continue practice. Well that's the crux of it for me, I don't know what the hell I'm even doing. I'm exploring, because if there's another level to reality, I sure as hell want to know about it. But on the other hand, what do you do once you've found it? I just trust my intuition to guide me. I agree, this stuff's a little too heavy for parlor tricks. I honestly think it's part of full-on spiritual warfare. I think of it as arming myself, or going through basic training. And for those on this board who think only the dark side can make war, they are waaaaay off. Righteous indignation is an all-consuming fire, an incredibly powerful force. And that's in a human. What happens when you piss off God? The LHP attracted me once, as a teenager who needed power fantasies. But since then, it's never even been an option. I know who wins in the end.

by **Homeless Halo** » Sat Nov 05, 2005 6:02 am

if power is what you want, then LHP STILL isn't for you. They only deal in illusion. This is the nature of the shell world, and the REAL essential difference between LHP and RHP, not "good" and "evil" but real and unreal. The "Goal" of the RHP is nothing less than "enlightenment". To be sure, once "mastering" a technique, such as that mentioned above, it should be quickly abandoned, save for occassional "practice" and left unused as it can be distracting and can narrow the focus greatly. The occult "power" can often distract from the real work of the process, that is, self-knowledge, of a type similar to that of myriad mysticisms. To fall from the path, to pursue this power as an end to itself will lead to corruption and disintegration(and will also lead to LESS power). As in all martial practice, the occult arts will make a person more dangerous as they progress. Depending on their character and intelligence they will either become a liberating force or a new tyrant.

by **jenz** » Sat Nov 05, 2005 7:34 am

embarassed to raise JC after what banned said, but can't quite understand how you can interpret the Crowley experience and similar experiments in the way that you apparently do, and same time not credit miracles, and so perhaps the whole bible bag. I said that when my brain is in I don't believe in God(s), but having also been brought up with org. religion - who wasn't in those days?-in extreme distress, when all else has failed I have used it. In that context I have a personal 'miracle' story which I keep quiet about because frankly, most people I know would assume I'd lost it. my feeling is that there are powers within our own selves, which we don't usually use, and can only explain with various mythologies. some might argue that science and rationality are themselves mythologies, or that these mythologies are sciences. comes down to defining terms I suppose.

by **ivanbo2003** » Sat Nov 05, 2005 12:24 pm

Homeless thanks for explanation,I guess i am real<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/happy.gif ALT=":D"> Lol i didn't know i couldn't post in the archived area,so i had to PM Jeff for help...I think that said it all<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/laugh.gif ALT=":lol"> So banned did it happened again?Did u confront the suspect who did the curse? Monster said:"..what do you do once you've found it?" Well monster u asked the most important question..Anyone who acquire this kind of "knowledge" will have a great responsibility.Doing bad things to others can't bring back good to that person.Ok,maybe I am wrong... Homeless: 1 question Is there a record(online) of what happened to famous people who used the occult knowledge?Ie,Crowley and similar

by **Homeless Halo** » Sun Nov 06, 2005 5:52 am

I am sure there is a record online, if not many contradictory records. I will see if I can find some that aren't TOO weird for someone unfamiliar with the subject, so you can "jump right in" so to speak.

by **ivanbo2003** » Sun Nov 06, 2005 1:18 pm

tnx man,just wanted to know the aftermath of their weird doings

by **monster** » Sun Nov 06, 2005 3:11 pm

can't quite understand how you can interpret the Crowley experience and similar experiments in the way that you apparently do, and same time not credit miracles I think that's the point, that "miracles" are a manipulation of natural forces. In other words, I don't believe in the supernatural. Anything that happens, if it happens, is, by definition, natural. I think the posters on this thread are more likely to believe in biblical miracles because they have a larger frame of reference in which to judge those events.

by **Homeless Halo** » Sun Nov 06, 2005 3:27 pm

Didn't ever say I don't believe that there is "truth" to biblical stories and/or miracles, nor that I believe these accounts to be impossible. I merely stated that the supposed historical authenticity of scriptures is a given fraud and a terrible hoax perpetrated on the masses. Just to clarify, personally.

Question on the power underlying the occult.

No problem, ivan...

Ok,some good questions...

The only way I was able to get rid of the demons...

to the problem at hand(s):

True story

monster:

what is this "bible" people speak of?

Re: practice

well

party pooper

evil vs good

ivan

Ok

Re: miracles

never

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