Vatican moves to clear Judas’ name

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Vatican moves to clear Judas’ name

Postby emad » Fri Jan 13, 2006 12:55 pm

Proposed ‘rehabilitation’ of the man who was paid 30 pieces of silver to identify Jesus to Roman soldiers in the Garden of Gethsemane, comes on the ground that he was not deliberately evil, but was just ‘fulfilling his part in God’s plan, the London Times reports.<br><br>Judas Iscariot, the disciple who betrayed Jesus with a kiss, is to be given a makeover by Vatican scholars, according to the London Times.<br><br>The proposed “rehabilitation” of the man who was paid 30 pieces of silver to identify Jesus to Roman soldiers in the Garden of Gethsemane, comes on the ground that he was not deliberately evil, but was just “fulfilling his part in God’s plan,” the London Times said. <br><br>Christians have traditionally blamed Judas for aiding and abetting the Crucifixion, and his name is synonymous with treachery. According to St Luke, Judas was “possessed by Satan.” <br><br>According to the London Times, a campaign led by Monsignor Walter Brandmuller, head of the Pontifical Committee for Historical Science, is aimed at persuading believers to look kindly at a man reviled for 2,000 years. <br><br>Mgr Brandmuller told fellow scholars it was time for a “re-reading” of the Judas story. He is supported by Vittorio Messori, a prominent Catholic writer close to both Pope Benedict XVI and the late John Paul II. <br><br>Signor Messori said that the rehabilitation of Judas would “resolve the problem of an apparent lack of mercy by Jesus toward one of his closest collaborators.” <br><br>He told La Stampa that there was a Christian tradition that held that Judas was forgiven by Jesus and ordered to purify himself with “spiritual exercises” in the desert. <br><br>'Judas portrayed with a hooked nose' <br><br>In scholarly circles, it has long been unfashionable to demonize Judas and Catholics in Britain are likely to welcome Judas’ rehabilitation. <br><br>The London Times quoted Father Allen Morris, Christian Life and Worship secretary for the Catholic Bishops of England and Wales, as saying, “If Christ died for all — is it possible that Judas too was redeemed through the Master he betrayed?” <br><br>The “rehabilitation” of Judas could help the Pope’s drive to improve Christian-Jewish relations, which he has made a priority of his pontificate. <br><br>Some Bible experts say Judas was “a victim of a theological libel which helped to create anti Semitism” by forming an image of him as a “sinister villain” prepared to betray for money. <br><br>In many medieval plays and paintings Judas is portrayed with a hooked nose and exaggerated Semitic features. In Dante’s Inferno, Judas is relegated to the lowest pits of Hell, where he is devoured by a three-headed demon. <br><br>The move to clear Judas’s name coincides with plans to publish the alleged Gospel of Judas for the first time in English, German and French. Though not written by Judas, it is said to reflect the belief among early Christians — now gaining ground in the Vatican — that in betraying Christ Judas was fulfilling a divine mission, which led to the arrest and Crucifixion of Jesus and hence to man’s salvation, according to the London Times.<br><br>'Fell headlong' <br><br>Mgr Brandmuller said that he expected “no new historical evidence” from the supposed gospel, which had been excluded from the canon of accepted Scripture. <br><br>But it could “serve to reconstruct the events and context of Christ’s teachings as they were seen by the early Christians.” This included that Jesus had always preached “forgiveness for one’s enemies.” <br><br>Some Vatican scholars have expressed concern over the reconsideration of Judas. Monsignor Giovanni D’Ercole, a Vatican theologian, said it was “dangerous to re-evaluate Judas and muddy the Gospel accounts by reference to apocryphal writings. This can only create confusion in believers.” <br><br>The Gospels tell how Judas later returned the 30 pieces of silver — his “blood money” — and hanged himself, or according to the Acts of the Apostles, “fell headlong and burst open so that all his entrails burst out."<br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3199362,00.html">www.ynetnews.com/articles...62,00.html</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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and now

Postby ir » Fri Jan 13, 2006 1:40 pm

Israel will reciprocate in overturning the Sanehdrin verdict, and the only missing piece is Rome...or maybe Bush will be willing to play the role, and reverse the death sentence...and then...oh...everything is possible. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: and now

Postby scollon » Fri Jan 13, 2006 1:51 pm

Trust the Vatican to forgive the guy with the money.<br><br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Israel will reciprocate in overturning the Sanehdrin verdict, and the only missing piece is Rome...or maybe Bush will be willing to play the role, and reverse the death sentence...and then...oh...everything is possible. <hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>brilliant ! <br><br>It will put Mel Gibson out of business as well. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Vatican moves to clear Judas� name

Postby * » Fri Jan 13, 2006 1:58 pm

<br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>The proposed 'rehabilitation' of the man who was paid 30 pieces of silver to identify Jesus to Roman soldiers in the Garden of Gethsemane, comes on the ground that he was not deliberately evil, but was just <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>'fulfilling his part in God's plan,'</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> the London Times said.</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--><hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br> Isn't this the claim Bush, Blair & Sharon et.al. make for themselves: "fulfilling...God's plan" ? There go free-will and personal responsibility......<br><br><br><br><br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>"Mgr Brandmuller told fellow scholars it was time for a �re-reading� of the Judas story. He is supported by Vittorio Messori, a prominent Catholic writer close to both Pope Benedict XVI and the late John Paul II."</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--><hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br> <br> The Opus Dei branch, I presume.<br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Vatican moves to clear Judas’ name

Postby anotherdrew » Fri Jan 13, 2006 2:36 pm

this is exactly what "the Last Temptation of Christ" was about. If Judas hadn't done what he did, Jesus wouldn't have had a chance to "die for our sins" and so there would have been no messiah.<br><br>Personally, I don't see how one person, son of god or not, being killed, has anything to do with anyones "sins". I don't see how murder has some magical ability to effect "sin" but then, I've never believed in the idea of ritual sacrifice of any kind. <p></p><i></i>
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vicarious atonement

Postby ir » Fri Jan 13, 2006 4:18 pm

anotherd - the catholic dogma has a presposterous (human, though) idea of "vicarious atonement", namely, that someone else can be sacrificed for another's soul salvation. I suppose this is why their priests are so busy mollesting children, among other things. the entire idea of Jesus, or whoever can bleed so that you, or anyone else, can feast, is awful. But I believe it was very common back then, and still is part of human mind. Sacrificing animals is the same, except at least there is food involved, which is OK. (practical). But maybe they were actully eating people at those times, which then makes more sense to "sacrifice them" ritually. <br>---<br>the reason I am interested is - such ideas are present in "programming" (sra/mc) of victims. Jesus might have also been victimized by a bunch of Roman rulers/sorcerers and their assistant neo-con Jewish cabals... <br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Vatican moves to clear Judas’ name

Postby scollon » Fri Jan 13, 2006 4:35 pm

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Personally, I don't see how one person, son of god or not, being killed, has anything to do with anyones "sins"<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br> Adam disobeyed God and we all fell from Grace , Jesus obeyed the will of God and gave up his life.<br><br>It's symbolic, we came into the world as seperate beings (the fall) , we must die (give up our lives), be born again and become One with God. Jesus showed as how to return.<br><br>The story of Jesus is remarkably similar to other mystery school figures Like Hermes, Mithra etc I now tend to believe (not any kind of authority) that the letters of Paul and the Gospel of Thomas are as close as we will get to Christianity (both thought to predate the Gospels) . There is a host of Gnostic material too. <p></p><i></i>
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Let me get this straight

Postby Avalon » Fri Jan 13, 2006 6:20 pm

So now if Christians (or at least Roman Catholics) complain about the Crucifixion, we're allowed to say, "Relax, it all went according to God's plan! It was just what God wanted, and just what we needed"? <p></p><i></i>
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Let me get this straight

Postby dagnabit » Fri Jan 13, 2006 7:04 pm

<br>And according to Revelation, or so I've been told, there will be massive corruption in the affairs of men, ie govt, trade, finance, even the church. So Bush, DeLay, Abramoff, Enron, and even the priests are all simply following the plan. The massive corruption is well-entrenched by the time of the 'Rapture', as I understand it. It seems a very convenient mythology.<br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Let me get this straight

Postby Sepka » Sat Jan 14, 2006 2:15 am

I hadn't realized that this was that radical of a concept. The idea that Judas was fulfilling God's design isn't that different from what I was taught in Sunday school (United Methodist) in the late 60s. IIRC, we also discussed (and rejected) the ideas that Jesus might have incited Judas to betray him, or that it may have been agreed in advance between the two of them. Judas acting on his own behalf doesn't mean he can't also be a part of someone else's plans, if they know or can predict what he'll do.<br><br>In the end, only God can properly judge Judas, as only God can know all the facts of the matter. Past practice has been to demonize Judas, but the evidence available to us doesn't really support the idea that God had condemned him. I think that position is what the Vatican is tending toward.<br><br>-Sepka the Space Weasel <p></p><i></i>
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Satan next?

Postby emad » Sat Jan 14, 2006 1:04 pm

And following on in order of criminality: George Prescott Bush, Joseph Ratzinger and Elizabeth Windsor. <p></p><i></i>
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judas

Postby galaxytoothpaste » Tue Jan 17, 2006 12:46 am

<!--EZCODE FONT START--><span style="color:white;font-family:helvetica;font-size:medium;">as i remember, the story is that jesus said that the one who will betray me is the one who has his hand in the bowl at that moment - it would have been pretty clear who had his hand in the bowl<br><br>and then jesus says to judas: go and do what you have to do<br><br>so it is pretty obviously consensual<br><br>and jesus has been explaining why he has to be crucified<br><br>athough then, confusingly, jesus is supposed to have said: woe to the one by whom the trouble comes - but then he might have said: itll be pretty tough on judas when people find out he was the one who betrayed me - jesus might have been indicating to the other disciples to be supportive to judas in the time ahead - they may have failed to do this - they might have been so sick from the horror of the crucifixion that they just couldnt bring themselves to pat judas on the back and say: its okay, you just did what jesus wanted done - <br><br>jesus may have felt that only judas had enough selfdiscipline and objectivity and understanding to do it<br><br>christians, i gather, read the passage as though the disciples didnt find out who was going to be doing it - but that is impossible<br><br>but then the whole bible thing is an alice and wonderland place where people do two impossible things before breakfast<br><br>jesus gets his connection to king david through joseph and then joseph had nothing to do with the pregnancy - and that is just the first page of the NT!<br><br>and jesus plays ducks and drakes with the mosaic law [law of moses] and then says he is not changing one letter of the mosaic law<br><br>and jesus says god is good and god says 'i create evil' [isaiah 45,7]<br><br>and jesus says that god is good and that he, jesus, is not good, and christians believe jesus is god!<br><br>altogether there are 500 contradictions - <br><br>just more crazy stories from the mad animals on planet earth - listen in again this time next week for more crazy stories - brought to you by galaxy toothpaste!</span><!--EZCODE FONT END--> <p></p><i></i>
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judas revealed

Postby galaxytoothpaste » Tue Jan 17, 2006 12:50 am

scroll over the above to read it - <br><br>i'll never use white again! <p></p><i></i>
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judas revealed

Postby dagnabit » Tue Jan 17, 2006 10:23 pm

<br><br>I'm reminded that the Bible was created as a tool for consolidation of Empire, a purpose it's served well through the ages.<br>And is still functioning in that capacity today. <br><br>“All’s fair in war . . . and in love. Practicing deceit to fulfill your heart’s desire might be not only legitimate, but delicious!” (p. 95)<br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.yuricareport.com/Dominionism/TheDespoilingOfAmerica.htm">www.yuricareport.com/Domi...merica.htm</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--> <br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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Check out

Postby prunesquallori » Wed Jan 18, 2006 12:45 pm

"Three Versions of Judas", by Jorge Luis Borges.<br><br>Sorry, I couldn't find it online to link. <p></p><i></i>
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