WHO would Jesus torture?

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WHO would Jesus torture?

Postby emad » Thu Jan 26, 2006 2:49 pm

Linking torture with Jesus' message is a tragedy<br><br>Battle Creek Enquirer/Rev. Joy Rogers | January 26 2006<br><br>"Who would Jesus torture?"<br><br>That's the provocative lead sentence in an essay by David Batstone in Jim Wallis' Sojourners magazine.<br><br>The question has haunted me throughout the Congressional debate on the matter. The question unsettles me when I hear that three out of four people who responded to a survey in this newspaper say that torture is an acceptable practice in certain situations. <br><br>And I realize that there is more at stake than my religious convictions in this controversy.<br><br>There is my understanding of myself as an American and a fervent belief that even in the ugliest of wars, and notwithstanding the bad behaviors of a few, we are a people who claim to be humane and ethical in our treatment of prisoners and civilians in a war zone.<br><br>My favorite uncle spent three years in a POW camp during the Korean conflict. He will, on the rare occasion, speak of how the American prisoners were treated.<br><br>I am sure he is not sharing the worst of the experience, but I always trusted the American ideal that calls us to something better in the treatment of enemy prisoners.<br><br>And there is a poignant truth in the observation of U.S. Sen. John McCain, who suffered imprisonment and torture by his captors in Vietnam. "But it's not about them; it's about us. This battle we're in is about the things we stand for and believe in and practice. And that is an observance of human rights, no matter how terrible our adversaries may be."<br><br>This issue also strikes me as illogical and irrational in its premises. McCain reminds colleagues and citizens that information gained by torture must never be trusted.<br><br>At last I come to convictions born of faith and grounded in the gospel. The words and actions, the life and death of Jesus Christ all proclaim an unequivocal allegiance to nonviolence in the resisting and overcoming of evil.<br><br>However anyone cares to justify or excuse torture as a viable practice in defense of the nation, it cannot be characterized as a Christian justification. The use of torture depends on dehumanizing the enemy and results in a diminished humanity on the part of those who do it and those who condone it.<br><br>We become what we profess to despise. St. Paul showed us how to make a Christ-like witness in a violent and non-Christian world.<br><br>"Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all ... Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good." (Romans 12:17, 21)<br><br>There is nothing in the teachings or witness of Jesus that tells us that violence is a saving act that might make right or that war brings peace. Jesus rebukes disciples who threaten vengeance on opponents; he forbids his followers to use their weapons to intervene in his arrest.<br><br>You have heard that it was said, "You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy. But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be children of your father in heaven."<br><br>Jesus refused to lead his people in a war against the Roman oppressor or to defend his cause by violent means.<br><br>He absorbed the violence of his world on a cross and showed us that the power of love and the power of God are far greater than any power of hate or death. That is the truth that is the heart of Christian faith.<br><br>The Christian does not need to be naïve about the power of evil. Only convicted of the message of Jesus. And always aware of how our own fears and confusions and pain and anger can provoke us to acts that deny the Lord of life, to actions that diminish our very humanity, and to hatreds that betray the meaning of the gospel.<br><br>The writer of the Sojourners essay states that "No just cause can be won if it relies on torture to succeed. Democracy and freedom cannot result from a war fueled by torture."<br><br>There are many who would claim that ours is a Christian nation, and much of the world might agree.<br><br>To link the practice of torture to the message and mission of Jesus is a tragic error.<br><br>Christians of good faith disagree about much. But there is no gospel warrant that justifies the abuse of anyone created in the image of God. <br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/january2006/260106torturewithjesus.htm">www.prisonplanet.com/arti...hjesus.htm</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br> <p></p><i></i>
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Hear, Hear!!!

Postby Floyd Smoots » Thu Jan 26, 2006 5:21 pm

Well said, emad, well said!!! God bless you!!!<br>........Brother (in Christ) Floyd<br> <p></p><i></i>
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Stella Vine/ "I only make love to Jesus":

Postby emad » Fri Jan 27, 2006 1:00 pm

<!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://chic.ig.com.br/uploads/59853.jpg">chic.ig.com.br/uploads/59853.jpg</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Stella Vine/ "I only make love to Jesus":

Postby sceneshifter » Sat Jan 28, 2006 1:12 am

<br><!--EZCODE FONT START--><span style="color:blue;font-family:helvetica;font-size:medium;">it is very easy to say to oneself: we are a christian nation, we are good, and we must stay good - it is easy to go to war saying to oneself: our war is righteous, theirs is not, god loves us, and approves our war - it is harder to say: we are not a christian nation, we do not act as jesus would, we are bad, and that means we hurt ourselves by hurting others - <br><br>it is too easy to believe what we want to believe - but it is better to be realistic, to try to see the truth - with reality, you can make happiness - with unreality, you cannot make happiness - you will be always bumping into the furniture if you entertain false ideas of where the furniture is - pride is entertaining false ideas of where the furniture is<br><br>justice is a virtue - justice is the first of the cardinal virtues - the four cardinal virtues are part of the christian virtues - the virtues cause happiness, the vices cause misery - how do we rate on justice? - how do we rate on happiness? - how much do we measure and try to measure our justice, our submission to the reality that happiness depends on the virtues - our injustice [our theft]: pay ranges from one billion dollars to one dollar a fortnight - the first world is still squeezing $200 billion a year out of the third world, although the economy of africa is smaller than the economy of italy - we are plunderers - we have total faith in grab-all-you-can - we accept any amount of money that comes to us, from inheritance, lottery or business - we never ask: how much have i contributed to wealth by my work, because i want to take out only as much as i put in? - although the social pool of wealth is limited to the sum of human work, we think nothing of taking out as much as we can, legally or illegally - <br><br>'let none be paid who does not work' - the bible says - obviously justice is fairpay for work - but we allow and even support pay up to a million times the average pay, although this causes the universal unhappiness of the labour and violence of everyone grabbing from everyone perpetually - no one can work more than about 10% harder than the average in an hour - but we allow and support pay up to a million times the average - [billgates, $18 billion in 1997, which is peaks of 10 million an hour] - [average pay in 1997: around US$10, if you pay all workers, including all housewives and tertiary students - pay doubles every 12 years at 6% global inflation - present [2006AD] average US$15 an hour, or US$75,000 per family - housewives paid too] - overpay so extreme causes underpay of a 1000th of the fairpay - are we trying to be christians? - christians are just, we are superhyperextremely unjust - christians do no hurt - we hurt others and thus ourselves superhyperextremely - why are there palestinian terrorists and no swedish terrorists? - an old readers digest article on the swedes said that the swedes have learned that you cant enjoy unless everyone enjoys - the golden rule - which should be obvious - people are not doormats - people who have been injured are violent<br><br>charlie chaplin punches the boxing machine - it punches him back - he gets angry - and punches the machine as hard as he can - it knocks him over - very funny - hillbillies shoot across the valley at neighbours for centuries - very funny - but stupid - are you injuring yourself? - are you hammering your head by hammering the head of another, of someone who is not a doormat? - is pride [satan] preventing you from admitting that to yourself? - we are christian only in our sin, our errorfulness, our failure to be christian or selfloving or selfcaring or selfish - our blindness to our ceaseless, escalating selfcrucifixion - every other animal is pursuing its happiness with intelligence - we are victims of pride - fooled into hurting ourselves terribly<br><br>bible: 'if a person sees someone in need, and has means to help them, and doesnt, love is not in them' - the prime christian commandment is to love - and only those who obey christ are christians - and christ says love, and love is helping those in need when you have means - <br><br>but why should we love? - why should we obey christ or anyone? - because you want to be loved, because you want to receive love, not hate, so you must not hurt - so you must not allow overpay, which causes underpay, which causes hurt - to the underpaid first and then to you, as they try to grab something of a fairshare, or grab as much as they can, because you did - as a willing or unthinking part of your culture's mis-ethic - humility is the power to learn - pride is 100% selfdestructive - and we support and abet pride, which is willful selfblinding<br><br>the 100% selfish person will hurt as little, please as much as possible, will smile at everyone, make friends of enemies, make better friends of friends - all for selfish reasons - to make his world more pleasant for himself - that is the golden rule: make your world as pleasant for yourself as it can be by doing no harm, by making friends not enemies - most of us are not up to that level of sanity of even the 100% selfish - we are more confused and stupid and selfdestructive than the 100% sanely selfish!<br><br>we think jesus gave the command to love in order to boss us around, out of his power to command and threaten with hell - we dont understand he said it out of love: because he knew it would help us, make us happy - <br><br>we are doomed animals, doomed by pride - unless we can slip a little sanity under the locked and bolted door of pride, of selfblinding - unless we can submit to learn a little of reality - where the furniture is</span><!--EZCODE FONT END--> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Stella Vine/ "I only make love to Jesus":

Postby Floyd Smoots » Sat Jan 28, 2006 1:38 am

sceneshifter, please go to your own thread, "tell me, tell me, tell me, pleasepleasepleasepleaseplease"!!! My humble answer also applies here. Your absolute command of "English as a Second Language" has let us know that you're not exactly "From Here" (wherever the heck "here" is), so why don't you at least do us here at R.I. the courtesy of telling us from which country you are posting?<br><br>Also, please Tell Us WHY you keep "Harping on the Same TIRED CRAP". There are only TWO kinds of people here, Christians (minority), and the rest of the World. In either or any case, we are ALL getting tired of your "one-note" tune about how "Everybody Else In The <br>World Is Getting Paid WAY MORE THAN ME"!!!!!!!!<br><br>How Dare You bring up the Holy Name of JESUS, and then, refer to us (All of Humanity) as nothing more than "doomed animals"???<br><br>There is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING you can do about it in this particular meme/paradigm/thread/iteration/abomination(?) of World History, so please, please GET OVER IT NOW!!!!!!!!<br><br>Love in Jesus,<br>........Uncle Floyd<br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Stella Vine/ "I only make love to Jesus":

Postby BajaSur » Sat Jan 28, 2006 2:17 am

<br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>"English as a Second Language" has let us know that you're not exactly "from Here" (wherever the heck "here"is), so why don't you at least do us here at R.I. the courtesy of telling us from which country you are posting?<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br>Wow! i looked all over this site and did'nt see anywhere that i had to disclose where i am from.I get the impression from you(some sort of fascist hall monitor) that if we are not from America we are'nt welcome here?Do we have to be Christian also?<br>Perhaps the guidelines on just who can post should be more clear.<br>Or maybe they are and your just being a dick. <p></p><i></i>
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BajaSur

Postby Floyd Smoots » Sun Jan 29, 2006 5:39 pm

Guilty of being just plain old insultingly mean to sceneshifter. Everyone here should not take everything I, or others, say to one particular poster to mean we disparage anyone or everyone else by what is written. <br><br>That was aimed at sceneshifter because I've read ALL of 'shifter's posts, and while I WON'T say that they make no sense, because some of them actually DO make valid points, they are tediously worded and tend to "harp" on the same theme, over & Over & OVER, until it becomes a tiresome distraction to actually follow 'shifter's train of thought.<br><br>I care not what nation a fellow poster (or posterette) is from if they choose not to voluntarily divulge that information. Nor do I care what their native tongue is. It only very rarely becomes a problem, because we all post here in English, when someone is truly having trouble with this language while trying to express their most valued thoughts and opinions.<br><br>I don't expect posters to involuntarily express their religious beliefs here either, but when certain posters claim Christianity as their belief, and then post unscriptural, apostate disinformation for others to read, you may rest assured that I will comment negatively on that wherever I may find it on this board.<br><br>In summary, you did voice a valid reservation about my post above, to which I hope I have responded in a clear courteous way.<br><br>Live Long and Prosper,<br>Floyd<br><br>P.S. Brother Jeff doesn't like us to call each other "facists", and resorting to non-creative profanity only makes the poster look ignorant.<br> <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=floydsmoots>Floyd Smoots</A> at: 1/29/06 2:55 pm<br></i>
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Re:Floyd Smoots

Postby BajaSur » Sun Jan 29, 2006 7:44 pm

Perhaps we are both victims to borderline trolling. Just a thought.<br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Re:Floyd Smoots

Postby AnnaLivia » Sun Jan 29, 2006 9:29 pm

since my silence would make me ashamed<br><br>and since floyd smoots has felt perfectly keen to, and righteously entitled to, speak for (to use the word from off his tongue) “ALL” posters at RI, I, as a poster at RI, feel compelled to reply so that all who have eyes may see, and all who have ears may hear…that master smoots is in grievous error,<br><br>by publically proclaiming that he most certainly does NOT speak for annalivia. i do not consider myself any part of the “we”, the “all”, or the “everybody” floyd smoots speaks of.<br><br><br><br>Incidentally,<br><br>I saw on last evening’s Galactic News Report (6pm on channel Gorxon. Sorry, I don’t have a link), a Khalsusz reporter doing a remote live shot from Mars. The story was about the growing concern there, that a heretofore annoying but perceived relatively harmless known phenomena called ‘dying laughing at the human species’, has, coinciding mystifyingly with a bewildering arrival/departure schedule at a cyber place going by the initials RI, begun to escalate noticeably. The number of Martian fatalities is becoming worrisome to The Milky Way committee, according to the reporter.<br><br><br><br>If they decide to take action, well, all’s I can say is<br><br>floyd’s a long ways away from me, and I hope like hell he’s happy where he is.<br><br><br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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dear annalivia

Postby sceneshifter » Sun Jan 29, 2006 11:54 pm

sequoia is blocking orcon again - should be fixed in a day or two - if you ring in my offpeak times, i can ring back <p></p><i></i>
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....

Postby ivanbo2003 » Mon Jan 30, 2006 12:32 am

What in the world has happened to this discussion board??? <p></p><i></i>
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its not the cia, ivanbo, its just spammers

Postby sceneshifter » Mon Jan 30, 2006 1:03 am

sequoia is blocking orcon because someone who goes through orcon isp is spamabusing, and sequoia are blocking the whole of orcon - should be back up in 48 hours <p></p><i></i>
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AnnaLivia, SHOW Me the INSULT!!!

Postby Floyd Smoots » Mon Jan 30, 2006 2:18 pm

Please show me exactly where and when, on the whole World-Wide-Web, I have EVER claimed to speak for ANYONE here at R.I., but myself!!! No wonder some of you get accused of misquoting posters and just plain making "stuff" up. That's not intelligent, no matter how cute you sound to yourself. And yes, you and I are galaxies apart in our opinions on "Life, the Universe, and Everything". It doesn't bother me, but it seems to bother you immensly. Sorry about that.<br> <p></p><i></i>
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