by Dreams End » Tue Apr 04, 2006 3:24 am
Hello Homeless.<br><br>Took you long enough. Thanks for posting.<br><br>Carol Rutz, an MC survivor, mentioned in an interview that she'd been taken to Wright Patterson for a "tune-up". I wrote to ask her about that and she said she didn't remember much about it and questioned why I thought the government might be involved in the case of my wife. (This is not my primary working theory, but I just keep researching every angle.) I found her rather cold, actually, though perhaps she just gets too many emails.<br><br>I was interested in the CoS part because, really, of a possible social milieu that her parents may have been part of. Since I see they have a grotto in Detroit, where her grandfather and mother are from (her mom is DID as well) and also one in Dayton (they lived in Cincinnati and her dad still does), I thought this might be a clue. I don't think that LaVey's actual organization is behind any of this stuff, though you never know who'd come to a gathering and take it more seriously.<br><br>I'd be interested in anything and everything occult related re Detroit you could offer, especially the years 1945 - 1965 (before your own time, I realize). And I'm not sure exactly when and why you were in Dayton, but ditto on Dayton/Cincinnati from 1965 to present. Her mom is now back in Michigan. I think that you are fairly young, so your time in Dayton won't overlap hers in childhood, but your experiences in the "gifted program" in Dayton would be of interest if you remember more about it. And, in interest of full disclosure, I'm not the only one on this board that got a little worried when you talked about participating in a gifted program sponsored by the airforce. I hope that it simply was what it was purported to be, or that you "flunked out" of their other programs...b/c they may not have been very nice. To be honest, there are so many red flags about your story that I have some concerns for you. If you don't find yourself missing much time/memory from childhood, then perhaps there's nothing to worry about.<br><br>My wife is into wicca/paganism, but is quite vague really about when all that started. Because of various things that have happened and that we've learned, I do now wonder if part of the abuse she suffered from her parents (and that there was at least SOME is admitted by all concerned, even the parents, though her dad claims no memory of "being violent") may have, in part, have been in the context of some occultish/hippie/alternate sexuality vibe. Maybe nothing more organized than that, but elements of that seem to be present. She has never, to her own knowledge, been part of any organized group. Yet this stuff is so important to her. During her second hospitalization one of the most difficult parts was getting her to part with her pentacle necklace (they allowed no jewelry). And while I'm quite aware that pentagram doesn't equate with Satan worship, her profound attachment to it and the fact that it was a gift from her perp mom who at the very least (again, due to broken memories we don't have much info) was cold, manipulative, emotionally abusive and maternally insufficient, it is odd that this PARTICULAR pentagram was so important to her. And she's now passed it onto her own daughter, excited that it is a "third generation" item (though her mom never wore it...just bought it.)<br><br>I assume, for the most part, that CoS was too public to be up to real trouble, though I would have thought that of Aquino as well, but I think the Presidio case is fairly damning, if you'll pardon the pun. Plus, his involvement in psyops, and a reference from a police report suggesting that there were several other "ToSSers" in military intel is worrisome. <br><br>However, if you know anyone with any of the first couple of years of the "cloven hoof"...they used to publish member lists...I'd very much like to see those. Surely more prominent people aren't listed, but it is one thing to pursue. <br><br>So, other than Rutz's cryptic reference about Wright Pat, an experience now forgotten, evidently, and the CoS, I haven't yet uncovered much about Dayton. I do know her dad is an amateur pilot and he is definitely a perpetrator, though to what extent her broken memories do not yet tell us.<br><br>I'd like to hear about the "scary fucks" from Detroit, but primarily only if there is some continuity there back to the forties thru sixties, which I doubt. <br><br>And if you, in your encyclopedic knowledge of the occult, happen to have info on any of the following, I'd be interested:<br><br>Wayne West, former priest and founder of the Detroit Grotto of CoS.<br><br>John DeHaven, founder of the Dayton Grotto.<br><br>Harold Courlander, anthropologist, folklorist and popularizer of Haitian, African and Native American folktales. From Detroit and has written many books and spent much time learning about Voodoo in Haiti. I know you have some interest in this area, and I don't ask as a blanket condemnation but induced trance states and "others" taking over...well, anyway, he had a DID daughter and granddaughter, so it's worth asking about. I think it was the stepfather of my wife's mom who was the abusive asshole, and likely not Courlander at all.<br><br>Oh, and you can have his fucking name. Morry Zwerdling. Very little about him on the internet, but if you happen to be in a library with access to Detroit newspaper archives, I'd love to know more about that piece of work. He was some kind of judge, maybe an administrative law judge. Extremely abusive. <br><br>anyway, just rambling. If anything strikes a cord, let me know...or PM if you want.<br><br><br><br><br><br> <p></p><i></i>