Irish Psalms

by **nomo** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 1:01 pm

Yeah, what are the chances, indeed, that it would be found open at just this particular psalm? What say you, Hugh? <a href="http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/europe/07/25/ireland.psalms.ap/index.html">www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/eu...index.html</a> <blockquote>Quote:<hr>Medieval book of psalms unearthed First millennium manuscript, open to Psalm 83, found in Irish mud Tuesday, July 25, 2006; Posted: 6:28 p.m. EDT (22:28 GMT) DUBLIN, Ireland (AP) -- Irish archaeologists Tuesday heralded the discovery of an ancient book of psalms by a construction worker while driving the shovel of his backhoe into a bog. The approximately 20-page book has been dated to the years 800-1000. Trinity College manuscripts expert Bernard Meehan said it was the first discovery of an Irish early medieval document in two centuries. "This is really a miracle find," said Pat Wallace, director of the National Museum of Ireland, which has the book stored in refrigeration. Researchers will conduct years of painstaking analysis before putting the book on public display. "There's two sets of odds that make this discovery really way out," Wallace said. "First of all, it's unlikely that something this fragile could survive buried in a bog at all, and then for it to be unearthed and spotted before it was destroyed is incalculably more amazing." He said an engineer was digging up bogland last week to create commercial potting soil somewhere in Ireland's midlands when "just beyond the bucket of his bulldozer, he spotted something." Wallace would not specify where the book was found because a team of archaeologists is still exploring the site. "The owner of the bog has had dealings with us in past and is very much in favor of archaeological discovery and reporting it," Wallace said. Crucially, he said, the bog owner covered up the book with damp soil. Had it been left exposed overnight, he said, "it could have dried out and just vanished, blown away." The book was found open to a page describing, in Latin script, Psalm 83, in which God hears complaints of other nations' attempts to wipe out the nation of Israel. Wallace said several experts spent Tuesday analyzing only that page -- the number of letters on each line, lines on each page, size of page -- and the book's binding and cover, which he described as "leather velum, very thick wallet in appearance." It could take months of study, he said, just to identify the safest way to pry open the pages without damaging or destroying them. He ruled out the use of X-rays to investigate without moving the pages. Ireland already has several other holy books from the early medieval period, including the ornately illustrated Book of Kells, which has been on display at Trinity College in Dublin since the 19th century.<hr></blockquote>

by **xsic bastardx** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 12:44 am

Well I'd say he disturbed it with the shovel and it was a coincidence

by JD » Thu Jul 27, 2006 1:08 am

You just can't make this shit up. A similar eerie event which could be interpreted as a prophetic warning happened on the eve of the Iraq war. The space shuttle Challenger, carrying the first Israeli astraunot, broke up upon re-entry killing all seven on board. The startling thing was "Numerous pieces of debris landed........ Palestine, Texas." Interesting connections here - Israeli/American cooperation, Palestine, Texas (home state of GWB), all ending in disastor for America and Israel. <a href="http://www.space.com/missionlaunches/sts107_journal-4.html">www.space.com/missionlaun...nal-4.html</a> President Bush: "Columbia's gone ... there are no survivors." Saturday, Feb. 1, 2003 at 4:45 p.m. EST In an address to the nation, President George W. Bush confirmed today that the space shuttle Columbia and its crew of seven astronauts were lost after the Orbiter broke up during reentry on its landing approach to the Kennedy Space Center. Or, in the words of NASA senior flight director Milt Heflin, "We've had a bad day." Shaken NASA officials confirmed that temperature and pressure sensors quit working in Columbia's left wing hydraulic system, left landing gear brake system and tire, and in the vehicle structure on the left side. These indications started about 7 minutes before contact was lost with Columbia. Officials also confirmed that a piece of foam insulation from the shuttle's huge external fuel tank broke free and struck the Orbiter's left wing during liftoff - it is too early to determine if this incident played any role in today's accident. NASA Administrator Sean O'Keefe notified President Bush moments after Columbia's scheduled landing time had passed without any sighting of the Orbiter. O'Keefe has met with the astronauts' families gathered at the Florida landing site for Columbia's landing. The crew of the International Space Station has also been informed of today's tragedy. President Bush has called the astronauts' families to express the nation's condolences. The President also called Israeli Prime Minister Sharon to discuss the tragedy - the first Israeli astronaut, Ilan Ramon was one of Columbia's seven crewmembers. Both NASA and White House officials have stated that there is no reason to believe that the accident is terrorism-related. Mission Control in Houston last made contact with the Orbiter at about 9 a.m. EST as it reentered Earth's atmosphere over north-central Texas. Columbia was at 207,135 feet altitude, traveling at Mach 18.3 or about 12,500 mph, when contact was lost, about 16 minutes prior to its scheduled landing at Florida's Kennedy Space Center. Tracking systems at the Kennedy Space Center did not acquire Columbia when it was scheduled to approach the Florida coast. Video of Columbia's descent over Texas shows the vehicle breaking up upon reentry. Weather radar from Shreveport, Louisiana shows a wide swath of heated particles extending over several hundred miles as the vehicle disintegrated. Numerous pieces of debris landed in Nacogdoches and Palestine, Texas. Aerial video shows smoldering debris landing over several hundred square miles of eastern Texas. We will update this box as soon as additional information becomes available.

by **Jill Burdigala** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 1:15 am

I am not Hugh, and I certainly don't pretend to speak for him, but this topic caught my interest so Nomo I hope you won't mind if I respond with my own reaction to your comment.... I am no mathematician or statistician! But when I open my King James Bible (which I use simply because I like the rich language and for no other reason) I find that the Old Testament takes up 560 pages, the New Testament only 174. Since there are so many more pages to the Old Testament, it would seem to me that even a random opening of the book would be rather more likely to fall between the pages of the Old Testament than the New. Then, taking the Old Testament from Genesis onward, how many pages could one find that do NOT in some way refer to the idea that the Hebrew God has a special plan for His Chosen People and/or Israel and manipulates history with their ultimate benefit in mind? Or that the Chosen People were not in some way oppressed or under stress by the peoples that surrounded them? Regardless of what anybody living today thinks, the Old Testament says what it says, and it is laden clear through from start to finish with this concept. Therefore it would seem, to me at least, to be not particularly remarkable that this Irish Bible would have been opened to a page that references the Hebrew God's protection of Israel, whether it was the 83rd Psalmn or not. But moving beyond this, I am struck by the thought of omens, as Jeff brilliantly raised in a post some time ago about the New York carp that cried out in Hebrew and the fish that had the name of Allah written in Arabic on its side. His point, as I recall, was that in ancient times these fish would have been set down in history as omens; today we dismiss them as Weekly World News nonsense. Perhaps this Irish Bible is also an omen, as a Roman writer like Suetonius would have seen, and it is only our veneer of "enlightenment" that prevents us from reading the warnings of the Gods?

by **Jill Burdigala** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 1:24 am

and a spooky one to me personally, since I do not particularly support Israel in this current episode.... perhaps all the talk of the Hebrew God about His Chosen People is not just metaphor or wishful thinking? Perhaps, for whatever reason, the Hebrew God wishes current events to unfold just as they are? Personally I would want to believe that this is NOT the case, but to paraphrase the book of Job, God has His plan and if one has a problem with it... too bad.

by **rain** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 2:21 am

Talk By: Rabbi Ahron Cohen at Birmingham University, England 26th February ‘03 My friends, it is an honour to have the opportunity of talking to you today. I and my colleagues of Neturei Karta attend occasions such as this because we feel that we have both a religious and humanitarian duty to publicize our message as much as possible. So I hope and pray that with the Creator’s help my words and our discussions here today may be correct and true in their content and conclusions. As you have already been told, I am an orthodox Jew (that is a Jew who endeavours to live his life completely in accordance with the Jewish religion). I am involved in ecclesiastical duties within the Jewish Community and am particularly involved in educating our youth and in helping them to achieve healthy and correct attitudes. It is therefore of particular interest to me to be able to talk to you, a student body, today. I have been asked to talk to you about Judaism and Zionism. This subject is of course tremendously relevant in the light of the current situation in Palestine, where you have - let’s face it - one side, the Zionists (who are also Jews), wishing to impose a ‘sectarian’ State over the heads of an indigenous population, the Palestinians. A confrontation which has resulted in horrific bloodshed and brutality with no end in sight unless there is a very radical change. My qualification to talk on this subject is by virtue of my being one of many orthodox Jews who absolutely sympathise with the Palestinian cause, and we protest vehemently against the terrible wrongs being perpetrated against the Palestinian People by the Zionist illegitimate regime in Palestine. The spearhead group among us who are involved actively in this matter on a regular basis are called Neturei Karta, which can be loosely translated as Guardians of the Faith. We are not a separate party or organisation but basically a philosophy representative of a large section of orthodox Jewry. Let me firstly state quite categorically that Judaism and Zionism are incompatible. They are diametrically opposed. The question must surely arise in the minds of many of you here today that there appears to be a paradox. After all everyone knows that Zionists are Jews and that Zionism is for the benefit of Jews. The Palestinians are the enemies of the Zionists. How come then that I, a Jew, can sympathise with the Palestinian cause. I would like to try to answer this question and to revert to the subject of my talk - Judaism and Zionism - on two levels, religious belief and humanitarianism. Bearing in mind that to be humanitarian is also a basic religious requirement. Firstly from a Jewish religious belief point of view. One has to take a look at some aspects of the history of the Jewish people and at their basic belief in the Al-mighty’s control of our destiny and what the Al-mighty wants of us. All as set out in our Religious teachings, our Toira, and as taught to us through the generations by our great religious leaders. Against this we also have to look at the history of Zionism, how it developed, what are its aims. Our religion is for us a total way of life. Showing us how to live a life in the service of the Al-mighty. It affects every aspect of our life from the cradle to the grave. We are taught that it was revealed to us by Divine Revelation, as described in the Bible, some three and a half thousand years ago, and that is when the Jewish People came in to being. All of our religious requirements, practical and philosophical, are set out in the Torah which comprises the Bible (the old testament) and a vast code of Oral Teaching handed down to us through the generations. As mentioned, our religion is a total way of life covering every aspect of our life. One area of our religion is that subject to certain conditions is that we will be given a land, the Holy Land, now known as Palestine, in which to live and carry out various parts of our service of the Al-mighty. Now, before I go any further, I wish to point out something which is very basic to understanding the difference between Judaism and Zionism and that is that the orthodox Jewish concept of nationhood is very different to the concept of nationhood held by most peoples. Most peoples understand a nation to be a specific people living in a specific land. The land is essential for the identity of the nation. They may or may not have a religion, but the religion is immaterial to the national identity. The orthodox Jewish concept of nationhood however, is a specific people with a specific religion. It is the religion that establishes the national identity. They may or may not have a land, the land is immaterial to the Jewish national identity. This is borne out by the fact that the Jewish nation has been without a land for 2000 years, but as long as they retained their religion they retained their identity. Now I mentioned earlier that we were given a land but under certain conditions. The conditions were basically that we had to maintain the highest of moral, ethical and religious standards. The Jewish People did have the land for approximately the first one thousand five hundred years of their existence. However, regretfully, the conditions were not fulfilled to the required degree and the Jews were exiled from their land. For the last two thousand years or so the Jewish people have been in a state of exile decreed by the A-lmighty because they did not maintain the standards expected of them. This state of exile is the situation that exists right up to the present day. It is a basic part of our belief to accept willingly the Heavenly decree of exile and not to try and fight against it or to end it by our own hands. To do so would constitute a rebellion against the wishes of the A-lmighty. In practical terms, although we have maintained our Jewish identity by virtue of our attachment to our religion, never the less exile for us means firstly that Jews must be loyal subjects of the countries in which they live and not attempt to rule over the established indigenous populations of those countries. Secondly, that we may not attempt to set up a State of our own in Palestine. This would apply even if the land would be unoccupied and it certainly applies when, as is the case, there is an existing indigenous population. This prohibition is a basic part of our teaching and we are forsworn not to contravene it and we are warned of the dire consequences of doing so. It follows, therefore, that Jews have no right to rule today in Palestine. Now let us consider the Zionist movement. This was founded approximately 100 years ago mostly by secular people who were discarding their religion but still retained what they considered as the stigma of being Jews in exile. They considered that our state of exile was due to our own subservient attitude - ‘the Golus (exile) mentality’ - and not by Divine Decree. They wanted to throw off the constraints of exile and to try and establish a new form of Jewish identity. Not religion based but land based. It was based on a typical, emotion driven, secular nationalistic aim, similar to that of most other nations. Their policy had as its centre pin the aim of setting up a Jewish State in Palestine. But they were forging a new kind of Jew. In fact not a Jew at all- a Zionist. This Zionist movement was a complete abandonment of our religious teachings and faith - in general - and in particular an abandonment of our approach to our state of exile and our attitude to the peoples among whom we live. The practical outcome of Zionism in the form of the State known as ‘Israel’ is completely alien to Judaism and the Jewish Faith. The very name “Israel” which originally meant what are known as the Children of Israel i.e. the Jewish People was usurped by the Zionists. For this reason many orthodox Jews avoid referring to the Zionist State by the name ’Israel’. The ideology of Zionism is not to rely on divine providence but to take the law into ones own hands and to try to force the outcome in the form of a State. This is completely contrary to the approach to the matter of exile which our Toira requires us to adopt, as handed down to us by our great religious teachers. I have spoken till now from the religious belief point of view. But let us consider the humanitarian point of view (and to do so is also a religious requirement as I mentioned earlier).The Zionist ideology was and is to force the aim of a State irrespective of the cost in life and property to anyone who stands in the way. The Palestinians stood in the way. We have a fact that in order to achieve an ill conceived nationalistic ambition, a shocking contravention of natural justice was committed by the Zionists in setting up an illegitimate regime in Palestine completely against the wishes of the established population, the Palestinians, which inevitably had to be based on loss of life, killing and stealing. Most Orthodox Jews accept the Neturei Karta view to the extent that they do not agree in principle to the existence of the Zionist State and would not ‘shed a tear‘ if it came to an end. There are however a range of opinions as to how to deal with the fact that for the time being the Zionist State exists. These opinions range from positive cooperation to pragmatic acceptance to total opposition in every way. The latter being the Neturei Karta approach. There was and is however, an additional Zionist phenomenon which confuses the picture. That is the Religious Zionists. These are people who claim to be faithful to the Jewish Religion but they have been influenced by the Zionist secular nationalistic philosophy and have added a new dimension to Judaism - Zionism, the aim of setting up now and expanding a Jewish state in Palestine. This they try to fulfil with great fervour. (I call it Judaism-plus) They claim that this is inherent in the Jewish religion. But the fact is as explained earlier that this is absolutely contrary to the teachings of our great religious teachers. Furthermore, from a humanitarian point of view, their ideology too was and is to force their aim irrespective of the cost in life and property to anyone who stands in the way. The Palestinians are standing in the way. This is all the more shocking as it is done in the name of religion. Whereas in reality there is a totally contrary requirement of our religion and that is to treat all peoples with compassion. To sum up. According to the Torah and Jewish faith, the present Palestinian > Arab claim to rule in Palestine is right and just. The Zionist claim is wrong and criminal. Our attitude to Israel is that the whole concept is flawed and illegitimate. We have another problem and that is that the Zionists have made themselves to appear as the representatives and spokespeople of all Jews thus, with their actions, arousing animosity against the Jews. Those who harbour this animosity are accused of anti-Semitism. However, what has to be made abundantly clear is that Zionism is not Judaism. Zionists cannot speak in the name of Jews. Zionists may have been born as Jews, but to be a Jew also requires adherence to the Jewish belief and religion. So what becomes abundantly clear is that opposition to Zionism and its crimes does not imply hatred of Jews or ‘anti-Semitism‘. On the contrary Zionism itself and its deeds are the biggest threat to Jews and Judaism. The strife between Arab and Jew in Palestine only began when the first Zionist pioneers came to Palestine with the express aim of forming a State over the heads of the indigenous Arab population. That strife has continued until this very day and has cost and continues to cost thousands and thousands of lives. The oppression, abuse and murder in Palestine is a tragedy not only for the Palestinians but for the Jewish people as well. And is in fact part of the dire consequences of which we are warned if we transgress our religious requirement not to rebel against our exile. I wish to add that the connection between Muslims and Jews goes right back into ancient history. Mostly the relationship was friendly and mutually beneficial. Historically, the situation frequently was that when Jews were being persecuted in Europe they found refuge in the various Muslim countries. Our attitude to Muslims and Arabs can only be one of friendliness and respect. I would like to finish with the following words. We want to tell the world, especially our Muslim neighbours, that there is no hatred or animosity between Jew and Muslim. We wish to live together as friends and neighbours as we have done mostly over hundreds even thousands of years in all the Arab countries. It was only the advent of the Zionists and Zionism which upset this age old relationship. We consider the Palestinians as the people with the right to govern in Palestine. The Zionist State known as “Israel” is a regime that has no right to exist. Its continuing existence is the underlying cause of the strife in Palestine. 33. We pray for a solution to the terrible and tragic impasse that exists. Hopefully based on results brought about by moral, political and economic pressures imposed by the nations of the world. We pray for an end to bloodshed and an end to the suffering of all innocent people - Jew and non-Jew alike - worldwide. We are waiting for the annulment of Zionism and the dismantling of the Zionist regime, which will bring about an end to the suffering of the Palestinian people. We would welcome the opportunity to dwell in peace in the holy land under a rule which is entirely in accordance with the wishes and aspirations of the Palestinian People. May we soon merit the time when all mankind will be at peace with each other. <a href="http://www.nkusa.org/activities/speeches/bham022603.cfm">www.nkusa.org/activities/...022603.cfm</a>

by JD » Mon Jul 31, 2006 5:15 pm

<a href="http://www.artdaily.com/section/news/index.asp?int_sec=2&int_new=16781">www.artdaily.com/section/..._new=16781</a> DUBLIN, IRELAND.- In the press release issued by the National Museum of Ireland on July 26 the following reference was made to Psalm 83: “While part of Psalm 83 is legible, the extent to which other Psalms or additional texts are preserved will only be determined by painstaking work by a team of invited experts probably operating over a long time in the Museum laboratory” The above mention of Psalm 83 has led to misconceptions about the revealed wording and may be a source of concern for people who believe Psalm 83 deals with “the wiping out of Israel”. The Director of the National Museum of Ireland, Dr. Patrick F. Wallace, would like to highlight that the text visible on the manuscript does NOT refer to wiping out Israel but to the 'vale of tears'. This is part of verse 7 of Psalm 83 in the old latin translation of the Bible (the Vulgate) which, in turn, was translated from an original Greek text would have been the version used in the medieval period. In the much later King James version the number of the Psalms is different, based on the Hebrew text and the 'vale of tears' occurs in Psalm 84. The text about wiping out Israel occurs in the Vulgate as Psalm 82 = Psalm 83 (King James version). It is hoped that this clarification will serve comfort to anyone worried by earlier reports of the content of the text. This is the original press release: Ancient Book of Psalms Discovered In discovery terms this Irish equivalent to the Dead Sea Scrolls is being hailed by the Museum’s experts as the greatest find ever from a European bog. Fragments of what appear to be an ancient Psalter or Book of Psalms were uncovered by a bulldozer in a bog in the south Midlands. It is impossible to say how the manuscript ended up in the bog. It may have been lost in transit or dumped after a raid, possibly more than a thousand to twelve hundred years ago. The Director of the National Museum of Ireland, Dr Pat Wallace, commented that “it is not so much the fragments themselves, but what they represent, that is of such staggering importance. In my wildest hopes, I could only have dreamed of a discovery as fragile and rare as this. It testifies to the incredible richness of the Early Christian civilisation of this island and to the greatness of ancient Ireland.” Congratulating the Museum on the discovery, the promptness of its report, and the action of the finders, the Minister for Arts, Sports and Tourism, John O’ Donoghue TD, said “this most fortunate of discoveries testifies to the high achievements of our Early Christian civilisation and to the responsibility of the present generation in the preservation of our unparalleled legacy from the past”. He wished the Museum well in the conservation of the manuscript and looked forward to its display in the Early Christian gallery of the Museum where it will have a fitting place alongside the Ardagh chalice and the Derrynaflan paten. Extensive fragments of what appear to be an Irish Early Christian Psalter, written on vellum, were recovered from the bog last Thursday. The manuscript was brought to the National Museum’s conservation laboratory on Friday by the Director (Pat Wallace), the Keeper of Irish Antiquities (Eamonn Kelly), and the Head of Conservation (Rolly Read). The pages appear to be those of a slim, large format book with a wraparound vellum or leather cover from which the book block has slipped. Raghnall Ó Floinn, Head of Collections at the Museum, estimates that there are about 45 letters per line and a maximum of 40 lines per page. While part of Psalm 83 is legible, the extent to which other Psalms or additional texts are preserved will only be determined by painstaking work by a team of invited experts probably operating over a long time in the Museum laboratory. Dr Bernard Meehan, Head of Manuscripts at TCD, has seen the discovery and has been invited to advise on the context and background of the manuscript, its production, and its time. He reckons that this is the first discovery of an Irish Early Medieval manuscript in two centuries. Initial impressions place the composition date of the manuscript at about 800 AD. How soon after this date it was lost we may never know. <a href="http://www.sploid.com/news/2006/07/irelands_dead_s.php">www.sploid.com/news/2006/...dead_s.php</a> Ireland's Dead Sea Scrolls A 1,200-year-old Old Testament prayer book discovered in an Irish swamp could be the "Dead Sea Scrolls of Ireland," experts said this week. The ancient booklet was accidentally turned up by a bulldozer clearing the Irish bog in the South Midlands region. Scholars were amazed to find legible text that appears to be from an early Latin Vulgate version of the Book of Psalms. Ireland is famous today for its early medieval monks who painstakingly copied ancient texts and built massive libraries at a time when continental Europe had fallen into ignorance, illiteracy and barbarism. But the golden age of Irish monasteries came to a brutal end when Vikings began raiding the emerald isle. While the Norse invaders were keen to keep anything they considered treasure, books and scrolls had no apparent value. History experts believe the 1,200-year-old prayer book was lost in the bog during a Viking raid on a monastery. "In my wildest hopes, I could only have dreamed of a discovery as fragile and rare as this," Ireland's national museum director Pat Wallace said Wednesday. But the historical significance quickly lost out to what some saw as a weird harbinger, because the museum had announced that the visible Latin text was from Psalm 83. In modern bibles, Psalm 83 warns of heavy duty discipline for the nations that attempt to destroy Israel. "They have said, Come, and let us cut them off from being a nation; that the name of Israel may be no more in remembrance," states the fourth verse. To Israelis battling against Hizbollah militants as well as a world increasingly horrified by the bloody destruction of Lebanon, Ireland's find seemed to justify the current actions of a nation surrounded by enemies. "What's even more incredible to me is that this book, opened to this Psalm, was discovered at this specific time in history," a Christian wrote in for an Israeli website. Not so fast, says Ireland's museum director. While numbered "83" in the Latin Vulgate version of Psalms that existed in the 800s, in today's bible that's found in Psalms 82. And the fragment of legible verse isn't even the right number; the destruction of Israel business is from the fourth verse of Psalms 83, while the visible text on the bog book is from the seventh verse of today's Psalms 82. If God is truly giving signs to the world through archeological discovery, then the ancient Irish prayer book offers only a crushingly depressing message. That's because Psalms 82:7 says, "But you will die like mere men; you will fall like every other ruler." Even worse, it's not even directed at humans. The whole chapter is about some inexplicable "great assembly" of "gods" in outer space, and how the main god is going to kill them all.

by **4911** » Mon Jul 31, 2006 5:34 pm

In rains post, for which I say thanks and if its true is exceedingly valuable, I read: "The Zionist State known as “Israel” is a regime that has no right to exist. Its continuing existence is the underlying cause of the strife in Palestine. 33. We pray for a solution to the terrible and tragic impasse that exists. Hopefully based on results brought about by moral, political and economic pressures imposed by the nations of the world." 1. Why does the author say 33 as a sentence? 2. Where can I find a torah online? 2. Where in the torah can I find the passages that state what the author states in his article? Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=4911>4911</A> at: 7/31/06 3:37 pm

by **eroeoplier** » Mon Jul 31, 2006 7:37 pm

4911, the Neturei Karta site (nkusa.org) is "under construction" at the moment - bad timing. It is/was a good site, chase it up sometime in the future. See here for some info on lack of Torah support for zionism: <a href="http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/zionism/3strongoaths.cfm">www.jewsagainstzionism.co...goaths.cfm</a>

by **rain** » Mon Jul 31, 2006 10:16 pm

you're right 4911, and I completely missed it. very weird indeed. but the whole Israel/Zionists/Judaism thing is far from cut and dried. Rabbi Cohen's address, which is from 2003, is representative of a significant portion. also note recent deveopments eg:<a href="http://p216.ezboard.com/frigorousintuitionfrm10.showMessage?topicID=5433.topic">p216.ezboard.com/frigorou...5433.topic</a> and Hava's reports and discussions dealing with same. as to the curious '33', I'll go back and have a look when I have a mo.

Irish Psalms

Irish Psalms

Re: Irish Psalms

Wow Spooky

Is This An Omen?

One other thought...

Irish mud

Update

Re: Update

Re: Update

'...33 in the sentence'

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