Islams True Face

[gnosticheresy]

<!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://islamstrueface.blogspot.com/">islamstrueface.blogspot.com/</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br>Is this for real? Any opinions/info would be gratefully recieved... <p></p><i></i>

[bvonahsen]

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance):<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--> <br><br>And this is different from... <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>"Wives, be obedient to your husbands"</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> and <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>"The man is the head of the household as Christ is the head of the church"</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> exactly how?<br><br>Christian fundagelicals and Islamic fundamentalists have more in common that not. <p></p><i></i>

[StarmanSkye]

Comparative religious studies. scholarship and accurate truth-telling it ain't. Provocative rabble-rousing hate-speech bigotry disguised as an informal, chatty, 'insider' expose.<br><br>The same kind of distorted cherry-picking can be done with most major world religions, esp. the Old and New Testaments, to paint an alarmist, dramatic picture of the self-decieved 'bad guys' for the indiscriminatory consumption of critical-thinking-challenged sheeple who appreciate the convenience of being told what to believe.<br><br>Can't believe a moderately well-informed reader wouldn't see thru this gimick at first cursory review.<br><br>Starman <p></p><i></i>

[yathrib]

Yeah, and all the things that distinguish Western society from Islamic society are the products of secular liberalism. If it had been left up to people like those producing the website, the position of women in majority Christian nations would be nearly identical to that of women in the Islamic world, for example. Did you know that some of the Puritans who founded the Massachusetts Bay COlony wanted women to wear veils? <p></p><i></i>

[johnny nemo]

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Yeah, and all the things that distinguish Western society from Islamic society are the products of secular liberalism. If it had been left up to people like those producing the website, the position of women in majority Christian nations would be nearly identical to that of women in the Islamic world, for example. Did you know that some of the Puritans who founded the Massachusetts Bay COlony wanted women to wear veils?<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--> <br><br>That's even remotely close to the truth, son.<br><br>In 1887, Carrie Chapmann Catt, A Christian, joined the Iowa branch of the Women’s Christian Temperance Union, becoming head of its suffrage section.<br>In 1900, she became head of the North American Woman Suffrage Association (NAWSA), and came up with a "Winning Plan" in 1916.<br>Her plan succeeded, and the 19th Amendment was passed on Aug. 26, 1920. <br>After its passage, Catt dissolved NAWSA and reorganized it as the League of Women Voters, intended to help educate the new voting force. <br><br>Where would the civil rights movement be without the efforts of Christians, especially the Christian minister Martin Luther King, Jr.?<br><br>Please don't paint every Christian with the same brush.<br>It's inaccurate and ignorant. <br><br> <p></p><i></i>

[nomo]

<!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>Please don't paint every Christian with the same brush.<br>It's inaccurate and ignorant. </em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--><br><br>Ahem. We've been living in the dark for most of the past 2000 years, thanks to so-called Christians. Just because you cherry-pick a few exceptions to what are otherwise mostly profoundly reactonary people doesn't make it not so.<br><br>As to the site at the original post: agit-prop. To scare "our" side into believing that "they" really are the enemy. <p></p><i></i>

[johnny nemo]

Thousands of Christians helped the women's suffrage movement, civil rights movement and Christian abolitionists like John Brown, helped end slavery.<br><br>The first anarchists, like John Ball, were Christians, as well, BTW.<br><br>Mao, Stalin and Pol Pot were atheists, who killed millions.<br><br>Whose cherry picking now? <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=johnnynemo>johnny nemo</A> at: 8/10/06 1:49 pm<br></i>

[nomo]

<!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>Whose cherry picking now?</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--><br><br>Yawn. That old tired response. If you really want to believe that Christianity is a force for good, be my guest. History does not bear that out. Organized religion is just as deadly as as any other "ism" out there. It's a fact.<br><br> <p></p><i></i>

[yathrib]

Nemo, exceptions that prove the rule. Look into what most 19th century Christians thought of women preaching, or doing pretty much anything. MLK was a Christian, but certainly no fundamentalist, and his hardest struggles were fought in supposedly the most "Christian" section of the country. In any case, eople like the originators of the website that started the discussion have *no business* claiming credit for any of this in any way. <p></p><i></i>

[yathrib]

...this is not meant to imply that Christians are "bad." Any religion is like a mirror. If a chimp looks in, a sage is not going to be looking out at him/her. <p></p><i></i>

[johnny nemo]

Hahaha.<br>Too true.<br><br>However, history shows us that primogeniture, and the subjugation of women, happened in all societies, throughout time.<br>Be they Christian, heathen or whatever, societies, as a whole were misogynist, until very recently.<br><br>That's why I can't stand hearing this fairy tale about a "Golden Age" where women ruled and everything was utopic, but they all forgot to write it down anywhere.<br>But that's another point.<br><br>One must bear in mind that Christ ministered to, and ate with prostitutes, essentially treating them as equals, which was in stark contrast to both Roman and Jewish customs.<br><br>Also, Christians may have had chastity belts, but they didn't have barbaric customs, like "female circumcision", which is still practiced today.<br><br>I used to live with a Muslim woman whose family tried to marry her off when she was 14.<br>One of her uncles told her he would beat her if he ever caught her outside not wearing her burka.<br><br>Not trying to inflame fires of religious or culural fires of anger, but the truth is the truth. <br>There are more disturbing truths that I dare not bring up......so I'll leave it at that.<br><br>Read this, if you dare.<br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.muhammadanism.org/Hadith/Topics/Marriage.htm">www.muhammadanism.org/Had...rriage.htm</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br> <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=johnnynemo>johnny nemo</A> at: 8/10/06 4:49 pm<br></i>

[yathrib]

...but the fact is that during the Middle Ages Muslims were as a rule much smarter *and* nicer than their CHristian counterparts. Look it up... <p></p><i></i>

[yathrib]

I hesitate to get into this, because Islam is hardly my favorite religion, and I certainly don't want to be--or be perceived as--an apologist for it. But...<br> <br>Keep in mind that the prophet Muhammad lived in a society where marriage was often a means of taking care of vulnerable females of any age. It was not remotely the same as a 50 yr. old man trolling for 11 year olds on Myspace.com. <br><br>As to "female circumcision:" an African custom, and not original to Islam at all, indeed not even a part of Islam as originally practiced on the Arabian peninsula.<br><br> <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=yathrib>yathrib</A> at: 8/10/06 10:24 pm<br></i>

[chiggerbit]

<!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>primogeniture</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--><br><br>Ah, thank you, johnny, that was the word I needed in another thread. <p></p><i></i>

[yesferatu]

"...in the West the sacred has been evicted or destroyed. And into this vacuum might flow the spiritual values of Islam, where the sacred has not been evicted and destroyed..." <br>Islam is more spiritual than Amerikan Jezuz and its xian adherents. Xianity has no counterpart to Islam's Sufis. <br>Why do xians hate gnosticism? Because it is spiritual, and untethered to an amerikan jezuz Berzerkerism. <br><br><<Every serious student of history knows that the loss occurred when (the dark side of) Christianity joined itself to the emperor and empire in the time of Constantine (during the time when the legends of the Grail and the Round Table were still in their formative stages). The gates (the lower limbs) of Christianity were thrown wide open to the world, and every wordling, prince and prelate alike, came into her. (Please read How Christians Made Peace With War, by John Driver). Those who would not come into her were forced to. By now, however, the true mystics of the Church had all gone underground, Buried and hid with Christ as it was.<br><br> "Christian virtues most sought (after that) were bravery, constancy and prowess. Christian knights were encouraged to make larger and larger blood sacrifices of Muslims called 'infidels' and 'unbelievers'....<br><br>Please see now that Christianity and Islam had each become a reflection of the other, and a judgment on the other (as they still are today). What each saw in the other, the Mind of Light could see in both. >><br><br><!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.revelation2seven.org/WebPages/Chapter18.htm">This</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--> has some interesting historical perspectives. Might be interesting to some. I came across it trying to research the<br>August 22 date the neocons have latched onto because of Aminidejad's reference to it. Note how nutjob Glenn Beck<br>is embracing it as gospel truth....just more ignorant projection: they fear Muslim leaders supposedly trying to force prophecy into apocalyptic reality....hmmmm. I guess for Beck, that lunacy is ok if practiced by by xian leaders over here, but then they get all alarmed when the mirror of fundie Islam is reflected back on their Christofascist asses...the projection of these nutjobs is funny if it weren't so pathetic). So I was trying to read more on Islamic eschatology and came across that site. Some of it is off the wall, but not bad if you like comparitive religious studies. <p></p><i></i>