Why were they taking pictures?

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"is there something more to it"

Postby rain » Tue Jul 26, 2005 8:09 pm

some refer to it as the root or base chakra. interactions of the kind are a relatively powerful energetic exchange. a friend of mine who came from a tradition who know all about these practices called it 'tagging'. but that's all bunk right?<br>"...a rooting in juvenile and infantile behaviour." wouldn't Freud have a giggle at that. you might try cross-referencing with R.A. practices, particularly the developmental level they seem to be accessing to load the programmes.<br>fear - T.C.M locates it in the kidneys,(hydrostasis of the organism) co-related to the adrenals, the 'fight or flight' mechanism; K1 situated on the sole of the foot. T.C.M. has quite a few other things to say about 'kidney' function. the chakra system locates fear primarily in the base chakra, then solar plexus and to some extent in the sacral. so this is a rather long-winded way of saying consider the effect on the individual system. then consider what's happening in these places. someone mentioned the notion of the 'vacuum'. the conceptual outline given there is not one I can concur with simply based on my personal experience, nevertheless it will suffice. who needs 'ritual'. as Avalon pointed out much is 'ritual' - 'patterning', if you like. finally consider its function as a viral meme and the role of visual stimuli. are standards, values, ethics being marketed. where do you think those photos might have their greatest 'educational' value. <br> <p></p><i></i>
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gosh !

Postby rain » Tue Jul 26, 2005 8:37 pm

antiaristo, you're full of surprises.<br>aah, the mysteries of Glamis. <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START ;) --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/wink.gif ALT=";)"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <br> <p></p><i></i>
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candid camera

Postby Avalon » Wed Jul 27, 2005 12:09 am

You've also got to factor in the inescapable fact that with the rise of consumer-priced digital cameras there is a vast increase in the amount of sexually-explicit amateur photography.<br><br>Back in the old days (i.e., more than about 10 years ago) if you wanted to take amateur dirty pictures you'd either have to have a home darkroom, use Polaroids, or have access to a discreet service which would develop and print your negatives. It's not something you would do in your town, where you would not want the drugstore staff seeing exactly which nekkid ladies you were being artistic with, or where you might get busted for more explicit shots.<br><br>Now it's a moment's work to send pictures of people fucking all over the globe, or burn them to a disk. The younger people are, the more likely they've had experience fooling around with a cancorder or digital camera in a sexual context. <br><br>The more likely people are to have done it or looked at the results, the more it becomes a norm.<br><br>The more it becomes accepted as the norm, the less people are likely to contemplate where the boundaries might be, and if there are lines they shouldn't have crossed.<br><br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: candid camera

Postby Seventhsonjr » Wed Jul 27, 2005 1:51 am

good point avalon<br>I was going to add the same thought: the technology is beyond the control of the fascists and the stories and pictures will inevitably leak out.<br><br>If we had had digital cameras and the internet in 1940 would Auschwitz's horrors have been possible?<br><br>The problem now is two-fold: our sense are deadened to the pain and the suffering and our own roles in it (whether as taxpayers or silent observers with a "what can we do, its hopeless" philosophy" - i.e. we are the good Germans in Nazi Germany); But the second problem is this: <br><br>We are becoming the "Wretched of the Earth" (see Franz Fanon). In his groundbreaking book, this Algerian (African) Psychiatrist, outlines how both oppressors and oppressed are warped and idealize the oppressive culture of decadent (necrophilic) colonialism.<br><br>The soldiers who are doing the oppressing are as much psychologically damaged (if not worse)than those they oppress on behalf of the BFEE fascists.<br><br>We are eating our own children - killing them and destoying them in this war.<br><br><br>Tonight I had to resort to the dollar menu at McDonald's for my ten year old who was starving and wanted a McChicken sandwich (and I had the damned choice of stop and shop chicken cooked late or a quickie fast food dinner).<br><br>In line revving his engine behind us was a young shaved head guy full of ugly tatooes (I think the one on his forearm said "Killer" in gothic Germanic lettering) and I had to tone the kids critiques down on this hot hot night with the windows down where they were essentially "WTF" dude. I had to explain to them that this MIGHT be an Iraq war vet just spoiling for a CONFRONTATION. hE MAY HAVE ACTUALLY KILLED WOMEN AND CHILDREN AT CHECKPOINTS OR EVEN IN THEIR HOMES AND HE IS back IN THE GOOD OL' usa SPOILING for a chance to go OFF!.<br><br>Anyway, my point is that we are creating monsters among not only those who are our supposed enemies, but also amongst our own young people, who have been forever morally psychologically damaged.<br><br>"The Wretched of the Earth" is essential reading to understand what is happening now (as well as Fanon's "Black Skin, White Masks"). It was a Bible for the "Black" left in the 1960's (I worked with the Black Panthers off and on over the years and also worked with Bill Kunstler for a few years) and it puts this phenomena in some perspective.<br><br>All that is is not new. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: candid camera

Postby robertdreed » Wed Jul 27, 2005 2:09 am

Good point, Avalon. Probably more cogent than my first observation in this thread, which is perhaps overly cynical.<br><br>Another good book on the dynamic of torturer-tortured is <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>Divine Violence</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END-->, by Frank Graziano. Perhaps a bit too detachedly academic, but informative nevertheless. <br><br> <!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.amazon.ca/exec/obidos/ASIN/0813382327/701-6631240-5272362">www.amazon.ca/exec/obidos...40-5272362</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Why were they taking pictures?

Postby anon » Wed Jul 27, 2005 2:21 am

Given the nature of this board, it's not surprising that spells/magic, or for that matter RA/porn, would get more attention than blackmail. But that blackmail isn't mentioned <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>at all</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> -- apparently not even meriting a dismissive comment -- is strange indeed. Many writers, e.g. Sy Hirsch, have (non-dismissively) examined this angle.<br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: "ritualized"

Postby hmm » Wed Jul 27, 2005 8:24 am

"Does bad ritual behavior go on? Of course, and we're finding a lot of it to disuss here. But lets not debase the clarity of our conversation with making words so vague that they no longer mean anything."<br><br>You are right.<br>i was looking at this from the POV of those that come from more empirical belief systems and discount any talk of ritualised abuse or scoff at the idea.<br>As a atheist with what average people could call "rabidly leftwing" ideas i try to point out "real life" examples of analogies that i hope will lead those who have difficult seeing things like "ritualised abuse" or "mind control" as something that also exists in "empirical reality" and does not just belong to the realm of the occult.<br><br>the occult as defined by the dictionary is:<br>"Beyond the realm of human comprehension; inscrutable."<br>"Hidden from view; concealed"<br><br>if someone doesnt see it,it is occult.if people can lift that veil a bit its a good thing?<br>But then i saw your post and that did make me realise that what is obviously "a good thing" to me has consequences i hadnt reflected on but should/could have.<br> <p></p><i></i>
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Blackmail

Postby Avalon » Wed Jul 27, 2005 9:16 am

Anon 12:21 am was right in bringing up blackmail. Question is, do we know enough of the dynamic to even have a theory about who benefits from it?<br><br>And is it ubiquitous enough that it might lose its blackmail power if "everyone" seemed to be doing it?<br><br>As a continuation of my thoughts about erotic digital photography being more common, I wonder if greater cultural acceptance of BDSM in America made it easier for people to step over the line to using the techniques to humiliate and degrade the prisoners?<br><br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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re:blackmail

Postby rain » Wed Jul 27, 2005 10:07 am

just on a side note - BBC is reporting that Rumsfield has just arrived in Bagdad on a 'surprise visit'.<br><br>I can't think of a valid reason why any of these 'people' would require blackmailing to get the to toe-the-line, and I doubt they'd be so financially flash as to make it a worthwhile proposition from that angle. likewise that anyone might feel compromised knowing that others have them or have seen them. they're just 'party' pics.<br>from a 'scientific contol experiment' viewpoint - what for, I'd say they've got this down tap.<br>I was looking at it more from the angle that Kay Griggs talks about - club membership recruitment.<br><br>do you recall when there was a special viewing for the Congress (?) of the torture pics. Yeah, that worked.<br>everybody felt shocked and horrified for a couple of minutes and then went right back to work.<br><br>and then there's the wider take - 'see, this is what Americans are really like, and metaphorically, if you're lucky, it's what they're doing to wht whole world'. maybe they're just testing global hegemony.<br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: blackmail

Postby anon » Wed Jul 27, 2005 2:54 pm

<!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>I can't think of a valid reason why any of these 'people' would require blackmailing to get the to toe-the-line, and I doubt they'd be so financially flash as to make it a worthwhile proposition from that angle. likewise that anyone might feel compromised knowing that others have them or have seen them.</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--><br><br>Sheesh! To my knowledge, no one has suggested the goal was to extort <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>money</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> from them. The claim is that they were coerced into turning <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>informant</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> -- basically, "Spy for us, or everyone you know will see these pictures and you'll be ruined." In Iraqi culture, the implications for women are particularly devastating -- family members have been known to take a "kill her first, ask questions later" line -- but it's not as if male victims of well-publicized butt-rapes have no cause for concern. <br><br>Some have even suggested the US military cribbed this technique from the Israeli playbook. The Israeli response has been clinical: a good informant is one who's happy (paid), not one who's enraged (raped and blackmailed). But that doesn't mean the US military wasn't both stupid and sadistic enough to do it. <br> <p></p><i></i>
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Just info.

Postby Sweejak » Wed Jul 27, 2005 10:37 pm

<!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/072705Y.shtml">www.truthout.org/docs_2005/072705Y.shtml</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--> <p></p><i></i>
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Occult use of abuse

Postby Emery » Thu Jul 28, 2005 3:36 am

The key is what happens to the victims after the event. <br><br>Some say this type of abuse is used to create the splitting of a person from spirit (multiples, altars etc) in the act you can also alpha state and insert commands, wernicke commands being one type of control.<br><br>Maybe this is being done to create future patsy's?<br><br>Porn itself is a remarkable mind control tool. Almost every red top (lowest common denominator) paper in the Uk is postioned in such a way that celebratity crutches, vile acts and abuses are forced into the shoppers consiousness ... The effect is a graphic work of symbolism working through the person everyday. It is thus transfered to the office, the home, the kids ... its a grim picture and taken in context paints even more sinister intent at the hands of hidden knowledge.<br><br>I am no expert, it just seems to add extra weight to the madness (understatement) of today's world. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: what happens after

Postby anonymoose » Thu Jul 28, 2005 4:26 am

In the case of Gitmo & Abu Ghraib, maybe afterward they become suicide bombers -- they've proved to be a most useful tool for Western policymakers. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Blackmail while im not ready to claim BDSM expertise

Postby hmm » Thu Jul 28, 2005 10:17 am

"true" (idealised) BDSM is as far from torture and rape as you can get.<br>Its about the ultimate in trust between two people who hopefully love eachother.<br>I went looking at the parallels between BDSM and rape/torture and came away with the above conclusion.<br><br>Now can someone who doesnt know what ultimate trust and love is see BDSM and be influenced by it in a bad way,ofcourse.Is the popularity of BDSM in the mainstream now a concious decision based on something other than the beauty of love and trust,very very good question to which i dont have a good answer due to lack of data and not for lack of wanting to answer that question.<br><br>another important thing i noticed from reading about BDSM is that some of the practicioners are themselves damaged by abuse.Some repeating the twisted "programming" of past experiences,others seeking a safe "stage" on which to banish those demons.<br><br>I dont know how controversial this is as this does not come up in normal conversation for understandable reasons but i thought it worth mentioning.<br> <p></p><i></i>
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