Shots Fired Near Camp Casey

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Re: You Go!

Postby Sweejak » Thu Aug 18, 2005 12:10 pm

Chigger, Sheehan's diary makes things explicit. Read a few entries.... for instance: "I apparently am the sacrificial lamb of the peace movement. I don't care about myself. Putting myself in the forefront and daring to challenge the president on his lies left myself open to the attacks. Which are, of course, half truths and distortions."<br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://sacramentofordemocracy.org/?q=tracker/171">sacramentofordemocracy.or...racker/171</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--> (slow loading this AM)<br><br> You have a point about arrogance of course... it applies to all sides and all times, but we have given you detailed examples that show that this, at least in these circumstances, is different. The disagreement here is in that you apparently do not accept these examples as being representative. I don't know, but so far, AFAIK, Sheehan is in control of this movement.<br><br>What is the goal? Well, imo, you roll the dice and see where it lands. Given the general circumstances I can go with that. I'll use Martin Luther again. His bullet points were tacked to the church door. This was apparently a common thing to do, it was an early version of a message board. It was meant to provoke discussion, to speak truth to power (as if power doesn't know) and the results were way beyond anything anyone could have reasonably expected, partly because of that eras information breakthrough, the printing press. I see parallels.<br><br>Is the goal to talk to Bush? I almost could care less, although I delight in what appears to be a checkmate, and isn't it more important that she has broken a barrier that all the "lefties" have not been able to crack and singlehandedly reinvigorated the anti-war movement?<br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: You Go!

Postby chiggerbit » Thu Aug 18, 2005 12:57 pm

I suspect--only suspect, mind you--that her goal is to change minds. The objective to reach that goal is the requested meeting with Bush, to make him answerable. The questions aren't so important, and neither are the answers. The goal is to expect him to "be answerable", something he has never had to do in his life. And Cindy reaches her goal even better without her meeting, so long as the camp minds it's p's and q's.<br><br>So odd that his forces didn't foresee the momentum of this camp, and short-circuit it by granting the meeting, oh-so-magnanimously, in the very beginning. I expect the team members have other things on their minds. <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p097.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=chiggerbit@rigorousintuition>chiggerbit</A> at: 8/18/05 11:01 am<br></i>
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.

Postby proldic » Thu Aug 18, 2005 1:03 pm

" ...What disturbs me in thinking about all of this is George Bush really want this going on because that’s probably helping his effort in the war. I don’t know strategy, okay. Maybe it is..." <p></p><i></i>
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Re: .Larry..

Postby chiggerbit » Thu Aug 18, 2005 2:09 pm

...could be right, proldic, but the right is working with the same constraints that I have been pointing out. Repubs have an incredibly organized network, with all sorts of mailing lists, email lists, a multitude of websites, and the religious organzations. And they have been burning up the wires with their message. But....they are preaching to the choir, and at this point their message is not getting to that middle population that is not committed to either side. So, they sit and wait patiently for someone, anyone, in the camp to make a mistake, even if that mistake is not representative of the larger group. Every single person there at Camp Casey is an ambassador. <br><br>And the arrogance that I spoke of is the right's enemy, too, and it appears to be at play in the prez's refusal to meet with Cindy. It doesn't look good for him, and right now there is so little other news to distract from the camp. To tell the truth, I keep expecting the Bush team to be tooling down the road any day now, and for the prez to make an unscheduled stop to speak with Cindy, with his fakey, folksy manner, hoping to catch people off-guard. <br> <p></p><i></i>
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Cindy's Goal

Postby GDN01 » Thu Aug 18, 2005 3:19 pm

I would disagree that Cindy's goal is to change people's minds. There may be others who hope the coverage of this event brings information to people that might encourage them to call for an end to the war. But that is NOT what Cindy is there to do. She has made it clear. She made a spontaneous decision while in Dallas for a conference to head to Crawford and face Bush with her demands for the truth and to bring the troops home alive. She is sick and tired of hearing him talking about honoring "the fallen" which includes her son, for an "honorable cause". She wants him to quit using her son and the other dead soldiers to promote his war based on lies. She would be there today even if no one else had joined her and not a single news camera had shown up.<br><br>I do wish you would stop assuming so much about what is happening there. Numerous links have been provided - outside of the MSM which has twisted this story for their own purposes. <br><br>No effort is perfect. Especially an effort that builds on its own momentum involving thousands of people. If we wait for the flawless opportunity to arise before acting, we will wait forever. I've been involved in many protests, participating as well as organizing - and IMHO - this is one of the most effective and well run, and I think it's because they aren't trying to change anyone's mind, except maybe Bush's. They are there to speak their truth, whether or not anyone else agrees or listens. And that is the power of this movement. The success of this event will not be measured, by those involved, by how many people show up or how many hearts are changed - although I believe these have already been successes. It will be a success if Bush comes to speak to Cindy or if Cindy does not back down from her original vow to stay in Crawford as long as Bush is there or she is arrested. Cindy never said, "I'll stay here as long as I have 200 protesters around me and media coverage." She doesn't care - and I can honestly say that based on my conversations with her and the organizers of the camp. No one, including Cindy, never imagined this was going to grow as it has. <p></p><i></i>
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