general 'stoked Kurdish conflict to keep Turkey out of EU'

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general 'stoked Kurdish conflict to keep Turkey out of EU'

Postby hmm » Thu Mar 09, 2006 11:03 am

<!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://news.independent.co.uk/europe/article349911.ece">news.independent.co.uk/eu...349911.ece</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr> Senior general 'stoked Kurdish conflict to keep Turkey out of EU'<br>By Pelin Turgut in Istanbul<br>Published: 08 March 2006<br><br>One of Turkey's most powerful generals has been accused of setting up rogue units in the south-east of the country to provoke clashes between Kurdish separatists and security forces. The accusations, made by a prosecutor in the eastern city of Van, against General Yasar Buyukanit, the head of Turkey's land forces, have rattled the politically powerful military. It is thought the alleged activities are part of an effort to derail Turkey's bid to join the European Union.<br><br>General Buyukanit , who was chief commander in the region from 1997-2000, is due to become chief of staff in August. The separatist Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK) launched an armed struggle for a homeland in the region in 1984. The conflict has claimed more than 30,000 lives.<br><br>The charges were part of an indictment of two soldiers and a Kurdish informer over the bombing of a bookshop in November in the south-eastern town of Semdinli, on the Iraqi border. The general cannot be prosecuted by civil courts.<br><br>The blast, which killed one man, made headlines when a tale was revealed of shadowy rogue elements within the security forces. Local people chased and caught three men suspected of planting the bomb only to find out that two were non-commissioned officers, part of a paramilitary intelligence unit, and the third, a Kurdish rebel turned informer. Their car was registered to the local gendarmerie and contained a list of 105 potential targets, including the bookshop owner.<br><br>In his 100-page indictment of the three suspected bombers, a prosecutor, Ferhat Sarikaya, reportedly accused General Buyukanit and other senior officers of setting up an illegal force to create unrest among the Kurds that would undermine Turkey's application to join the EU. Mr Sarikaya alleged that the bombing in November was part of a series of similar attacks intended to provoke the security forces into a clampdown on the restive Kurdish region that would then unleash European criticism and jeopardise Turkey's hopes of joining the EU.<br><br>Turkey's army says it backs Ankara's mission to join the EU, but some officers fear that EU-required reforms would reduce the armed forces' influence, encourage Kurdish separatism and strengthen the Islamist movement.<br><br>For many, the Semdinli bombing brought back memories of the 1990s - the peak years of the conflict - when rogue elements in the security forces were accused of summary executions, extortion and kidnappings. Turks refer to those elements as a hidden "deep state". That murky era has yet to be investigated. General Buyukanit said last year that one of the three suspects, who had served under him, was "a good chap". In the indictment, General Buyukanit was accused of seeking to influence the judiciary by supporting the suspect. The three may be jailed for life if convicted.<br><br>Turkey's generals are widely seen as guardians of the pro-Western, secular system introduced by the founder of modern Turkey, Kemal Ataturk. Their powers have been scaled back recently in keeping with EU reforms, but the military still has influence over domestic and foreign policy.<br><br>Under Turkish law, members of the armed forces cannot be tried in civilian courts. General Buyukanit and other officers could only be tried if a military prosecutor decided to take up the investigation. The general staff has accused the Van prosecutor of overstepping the limits of his authority.<br><br>One of Turkey's most powerful generals has been accused of setting up rogue units in the south-east of the country to provoke clashes between Kurdish separatists and security forces. The accusations, made by a prosecutor in the eastern city of Van, against General Yasar Buyukanit, the head of Turkey's land forces, have rattled the politically powerful military. It is thought the alleged activities are part of an effort to derail Turkey's bid to join the European Union.<br><br>General Buyukanit , who was chief commander in the region from 1997-2000, is due to become chief of staff in August. The separatist Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK) launched an armed struggle for a homeland in the region in 1984. The conflict has claimed more than 30,000 lives.<br><br>The charges were part of an indictment of two soldiers and a Kurdish informer over the bombing of a bookshop in November in the south-eastern town of Semdinli, on the Iraqi border. The general cannot be prosecuted by civil courts.<br><br>The blast, which killed one man, made headlines when a tale was revealed of shadowy rogue elements within the security forces. Local people chased and caught three men suspected of planting the bomb only to find out that two were non-commissioned officers, part of a paramilitary intelligence unit, and the third, a Kurdish rebel turned informer. Their car was registered to the local gendarmerie and contained a list of 105 potential targets, including the bookshop owner.<br><br>In his 100-page indictment of the three suspected bombers, a prosecutor, Ferhat Sarikaya, reportedly accused General Buyukanit and other senior officers of setting up an illegal force to create unrest among the Kurds that would undermine Turkey's application to join the EU. Mr Sarikaya alleged that the bombing in November was part of a series of similar attacks intended to provoke the security forces into a clampdown on the restive Kurdish region that would then unleash European criticism and jeopardise Turkey's hopes of joining the EU.<br>~snip~<br>Turkey's generals are widely seen as guardians of the pro-Western, secular system introduced by the founder of modern Turkey, Kemal Ataturk. Their powers have been scaled back recently in keeping with EU reforms, but the military still has influence over domestic and foreign policy.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>Pro-western + anti-european = america? <p></p><i></i>
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Re: general 'stoked Kurdish conflict to keep Turkey out of E

Postby StarmanSkye » Thu Mar 09, 2006 7:56 pm

"Turkey's army says it backs Ankara's mission to join the EU, but some officers fear that EU-required reforms would reduce the armed forces' influence, encourage Kurdish separatism and strengthen the Islamist movement."<br><br>-- With the result of 30,000 victims, deeply festering minority-separatist resentments, an emboldened military-rogue elite influencing both domestic and foreign policy exempt from civil oversight and prosecution, and now the impetus for closing-ranks to protect an illigitmate military bureaucracy.<br><br>This is a quite depressing revelation, with implications for possible/likely collusion among elite US intel. CIA/NSA etc. interests re: black-market arms/drugs smuggling, nuclear blackmail, and other hidden players/interests in the larger context of the intergenerational war on 'Terror', Pakistan and Iraq, and US intrigue in the Balkans.<br><br><br>"Pro-western + anti-european = america?" <br>That's the first-thing that came to mind.<br><br>What are the chances these officers might be charged under a military tribunal?<br><br>I wouldn't hold my breath.<br>Bloody Hell ...<br>Starman<br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: general 'stoked Kurdish conflict to keep Turkey out of E

Postby Qutb » Thu Mar 09, 2006 8:06 pm

Here's an interesting question: Turkey's policy against the Kurds is <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>even more</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> brutal than Israel's against the Palestinians. It's been going on for even longer. Turkish intelligence/military have an equally close (and equally ambivalent) relationship with the CIA/Pentagon as is the case with Israel. The Turkish lobby is said to rival the Israeli/Jewish in influence (little known fact: Perle and Feith used to work as lobbyists for Turkey). <br><br>Yet, Turkey's oppression of the Kurds receives much less attention from American leftist circles than Israel's of the Palestinians. Why?<br><br>Edit: ambivalent, not ambiguous. <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=qutb>Qutb</A> at: 3/9/06 5:18 pm<br></i>
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What ?

Postby slimmouse » Thu Mar 09, 2006 8:11 pm

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Turkey's policy against the Kurds is even more brutal than Israel's against the Palestinians.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br><br> Interesting conjecture. Im almost tempted to say Balderdash, without asking for proof.<br><br> But that would be pathetic, not to mention ignorant.<br><br> Youre proof of the above QUTB ? <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=slimmouse@rigorousintuition>slimmouse</A> at: 3/9/06 5:13 pm<br></i>
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Re: What ?

Postby Qutb » Thu Mar 09, 2006 8:15 pm

What would you accept as "proof"? What would be your proof that it is the other way around? <br><br>The fact that you didn't know about the oppression of the Kurds is perhaps an excellent illustration of my point? <p></p><i></i>
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Re: What ?

Postby slimmouse » Thu Mar 09, 2006 8:21 pm

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr> What would you accept as "proof"? What would be your proof that it is the other way around?<br><hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br> Of this comment ?;<br><br> <!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Turkey's policy against the Kurds is even more brutal than Israel's against the Palestinians.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br> <br> I dont know. How exactly does one prove the above ? I suppose the truth is that its probably not a fact as it appears expressed. More probably an opinion.<br><br> But hey, thats just my opinion. Rather to be fair, like CD I guess.<br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: What ?

Postby Qutb » Thu Mar 09, 2006 8:25 pm

It's my opinion, yes. Based on what I know about both conflicts. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: What ?

Postby Qutb » Thu Mar 09, 2006 8:40 pm

For starters, 30,000 killed over the last 20 years or so. 3,000 Kurdish villages have been completely destroyed. 2 million internal refugees.<br><br>You've never heard about any of that? <p></p><i></i>
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Re: I knew of oppression.

Postby slimmouse » Thu Mar 09, 2006 8:53 pm

<br><br> I knew of oppression for sure.<br><br> But I guess that in itself, then pales into relative insignificance compared to Rwanda and other places.<br><br> But I think that the general exposee of Israels crimes, ( albeit relatively small) is largely due to the tireless efforts of Many intelligent and industrious Jewish people themselves, who see Israel for the Imperial Pariah that she truly is.<br><br> But I suppose that Applies to all the axis countries ( USA and Britain too ). None of us like what is happening.<br><br> How to deal with it is the pertinent question I guess.<br><br> <br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: I knew of oppression.

Postby Qutb » Thu Mar 09, 2006 9:03 pm

"But I think that the general exposee of Israels crimes, ( albeit relatively small) is largely due to the tireless efforts of Many intelligent and industrious Jewish people themselves, who see Israel for the Imperial Pariah that she truly is."<br><br>It is true that American/European/Israeli Jews have played an important role in the recognition that Israel has become something very different than the original Zionist dream.<br><br>Calling Israel "imperial" may have been appropriate in 1967, but hardly applies to the Israel of today, which has withdrawn from Southern Lebanon and the Gaza strip. Oppressive, yes, but not quite an empire.<br><br>Israel is the true pariah of the international system - much more so than Turkey, which is negotiating to join the EU. Again, one may ask why. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Perhaps Colonial rather than Imperial

Postby slimmouse » Thu Mar 09, 2006 9:17 pm

<br> Perhaps Colonial pariah might be an apter phrase.<br><br> Who knows why Israel gets the international spotlight in this sphere ? <br><br> I can only hazard a guess that perhaps the rest of the world increasingly see where the True axis of evil rests these days, and that they see Israel as the focal point of so much global tension, which indeed due to 'circumstances' ( ahem) beyond the overall control of all populations of that region,(including her own ) Israel has been since her creation. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: general 'stoked Kurdish conflict to keep Turkey out of E

Postby albion » Thu Mar 09, 2006 9:59 pm

Looks like it might be a case of, the more things change, the more they stay the same.<br><br>Gladio in Turkey - News (1/24/06 thread)<br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://p216.ezboard.com/frigorousintuitionfrm11.showMessage?topicID=413.topic">p216.ezboard.com/frigorou...=413.topic</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Turkey and Israel

Postby hmm » Thu Mar 09, 2006 11:11 pm

you are right to say that turkey's oppression of the kurds and the usa's shady connections to turkey deserve greater attention but its useful to remember who is the imperial master in the relationship when discussing influence, i notice this even from many progressives when discussing current and past scandals involving non us nationals or governments.<br>I think its a shame you brought israel into the discussion as you could have made your point without opening that can of worms.. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: the more things change, the more they stay the same.

Postby hmm » Thu Mar 09, 2006 11:30 pm

yeah,its tiring sometimes..<br>The way it makes sense to me is to go back to at least the second world war, and see everything in the context of an american empire attempting global domination.<br>Or one could go even further back, to the 19th century, and construct a narative that portray events today as a direct consequence of communisms threat to the PTB. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: the more things change, the more they stay the same.

Postby Qutb » Fri Mar 10, 2006 10:55 am

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>The way it makes sense to me is to go back to at least the second world war, and see everything in the context of an american empire attempting global domination.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br>Yes, I agree. And both Turkey and Israel play important roles in American geopolitical strategy. <br> <p></p><i></i>
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