US Generals in Iraq: Dumb, Dumber & Dumberer

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US Generals in Iraq: Dumb, Dumber & Dumberer

Postby StarmanSkye » Sat Aug 05, 2006 3:04 pm

The 'experts': Contradictions, weaselly excuses, inconsistencies, clumsy half-truths, deceptions and evasions. <br><br>The bottom line: Iraq is burning. The secret doctrine of constructive chaos is a spectacular success -- Profits are thru the roof. Business is good. <br><br>Top Generals along with Rummy recently testified to Congress about the 'classic civil war' that is NOT happening in Iraq.<br><br>Whatta mind-numbing collection of dittohead abcessed-brain nitwit fools droning-on with their ludicrous talking-point 'best-guess b'gosh' cointoss if-only hocus-pocus predictions about 'success' in Iraq. Given they admit they couldn't imagine things spiralling so badly out-of-control in a year, or even six months, I'd say confidence that they are well-informed let alone are being truthful OR have any more credibility to squander toeing the MIC party-line is about, uh, negative point-zero-oh-nonce-0-zilch-nada.<br><br>If I wasn't so cynical and disgusted I would be flabbergastedly astonished this shit still passes for 'news'.<br><br>Amazing what ham-fisted propagandistic toxic crapola drivel the Ahmurrican Public has been 'eddicated' to tolerate and expect and conditioned to loyally, zealously consume as the very *best* the so-called Free Press can provide to keep 'em well-informed and on-top-of 'their' citizen-run democracy (sic).<br><br>The 'generals' assessment, after more than three years, untold suffering, horrific destruction, and perhaps a quarter-million casualties?? Iraq needs effective security, jobs and a competant, legitimate government.<br><br>Duh, well let's get right ON it then, eh?<br>Shouldn't our Generals, AND our 'leaders', be subject to the same kind of performance review assessment the busybody neocon Republocrats have made our schools and teachers subject to (supposedly; it's really a devious control-scam gambit to utterly destroy the last vestige of initiative and local parent-teacher school involvement)?<br><br>Ach, und das ist ehr geht, nicht war?<br>(hEh, and so it goes, ain't dat right?)<br><br>The Mosque demolition-bombing said to have triggered the intense sectarian violence gave abundant indication it was an inside job by the Interior ministry -- under direction and control of the Pentagon/DOD. Perhaps in five years, US 'officials' will finally have to acknowledge the will of the Iraq people: US OUT NOW!!!! How can a despised and murderous, humiliating and abusive occupation POSSIBLY restore peace -- which was shattered by the invasion-by-force of the very occupiers themselves???? -- (the biggest o-my-gawd realization-moment that like a well-aimed-brick POSSIBLY has the potential to awaken the long-slumbering sloth-addicted american public conscience-challenged 'intellect'.)<br><br>Starman<br>******<br><br>Los Angeles Times - Aug 4, 2006 <br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/front/la-fg-usiraq4aug04,1,2...">www.latimes.com/news/prin...g04,1,2...</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--> <br><br>Generals Give Grim Report on Iraqi Strife <br><br>Top U.S. commanders tell senators that a troop reduction this year is unlikely and that civil war is now possible if violence is not stemmed. <br><br>By Julian E. Barnes <br>Times Staff Writer <br><br>WASHINGTON -- Two top U.S. military commanders provided Congress with their bleakest assessment yet of sectarian conflict in Iraq, acknowledging Thursday that security in the country had deteriorated markedly in the last six months. <br><br>In their first formal appraisal since March, the generals said U.S. forces needed to help stem the cycle of attacks and reprisals between Sunni Arabs and Shiites in Baghdad, a task they said would prevent a significant reduction in the number of American troops this year. <br><br>"Sectarian violence is probably as bad as I've seen it, in Baghdad in particular," said Army Gen. John P. Abizaid, the senior U.S. commander in the Middle East. "If not stopped, it is possible that Iraq would move toward civil war." <br><br>U.S. officials have avoided characterizing the widespread violence as a civil war, which Abizaid has said would be the military's worst-case scenario. But some Iraqis and others already consider the situation to be tantamount to an undeclared civil war between Shiite and Sunni Arab groups in which thousands have been killed, many execution-style, this year. <br><br>Abizaid and Marine Gen. Peter Pace, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, told the Senate Armed Services Committee that they did not think an all-out civil war was likely. But their discussion of the possibility indicated the extent of the decline they had seen. In an appearance before the same <br>Senate panel in March, Abizaid was far more confident that such strife could be avoided. <br><br>"I think that Iraq remains a long way from civil war," he said at the time. "While we see very, very high tensions, it's still not to the point where we see it moving toward civil war." <br><br>Both military commanders told senators Thursday that the situation was worse than they thought it could become a year ago. <br><br>The generals' blunt assessment comes as President Bush struggles with a growing list of foreign policy challenges -- in Iran, Afghanistan, North Korea and Lebanon, among other places -- while working to keep his problems from tarnishing Republican prospects in November's congressional elections. <br>Until Thursday, U.S. commanders had held out the possibility of troop reductions in Iraq before the end of the year. <br><br>Some in the military point to the February bombing of the Golden Mosque in Samarra as the turning point at which sectarian warfare escalated. <br><br>The attack on the Shiite shrine was blamed on Sunnis and unleashed killings that have displaced more than 130,000 people. From May to mid-July, attacks by Sunnis and Shiites claimed the lives of more than 6,000 civilians, according to a United Nations study and Iraqi police reports. <br><br>Much of the violence has been in Baghdad. Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri Maliki took office in May pledging to bolster control of the capital. But six weeks into his Baghdad security plan, which featured expanded Iraqi patrols and checkpoints, the violence had increased. <br><br>Officials view the operation as a failure, and the U.S. military is implementing a new strategy to stop the sectarian killing in Baghdad, moving about 3,700 American troops into the city and intensifying the U.S. presence in neighborhoods. <br><br>U.S. commanders hope a more visible American presence will deter sectarian death squads and allow economic development projects to be started. <br><br>But the new Baghdad initiative probably will come at a cost. Abizaid said that the enhanced U.S. presence in the capital probably would result in greater numbers of U.S. casualties and work against troop reductions. <br><br>"I think it's possible that in the period ahead of us in Baghdad that we'll take increased casualties," Abizaid said. "It's possible." <br><br>He told senators he had just returned from a trip to Iraq and the Middle East. <br><br>"I've rarely seen it so unsettled or so volatile," he said. "There's an obvious struggle in the region between moderates and extremists that touches every aspect of life." <br><br>Initially, only Pace and Abizaid were scheduled to appear before senators. Secretary of Defense Donald H. Rumsfeld had declined, citing scheduling conflicts. After criticism from committee Democrats, however, Rumsfeld agreed to appear. <br><br>Sens. John McCain (R-Ariz.) and Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-N.Y.) pressed Abizaid, Pace and Rumsfeld. <br><br>Clinton listed mistakes she said the administration had made in Iraq. She said the U.S. force was too small to keep order, and she criticized the decision to disband the Iraqi army. She accused Rumsfeld of providing Congress with unrealistic assessments. <br><br>"We hear a lot of happy talk and rosy scenarios, but because of the administration's strategic blunders and, frankly, the record of incompetence in executing, you are presiding over a failed policy," Clinton said. "Given your track record, Secretary Rumsfeld, why should we believe your assurances now?" <br><br>While Clinton spoke, Rumsfeld stared at his legal pad, jotting notes with a pencil. When she finished, Rumsfeld stopped, looked up and said, "My goodness." <br><br>He issued a point-by-point defense and insisted that he had not been overly positive about Iraq. <br><br>"I have never painted a rosy picture," Rumsfeld said. "I have been very measured in my words. And you'd have a dickens of a time trying to find instances where I've been excessively optimistic." <br><br>Clinton later said in an interview with the Associated Press that Rumsfeld should resign, echoing calls from retired military officers and administration critics. <br><br>McCain took issue with the new U.S. strategy for Baghdad, saying he worried that the U.S. was simply moving its troops from hot spot to hot spot, potentially jeopardizing gains that American forces have made in Sunni Arab cities such as Fallouja. <br><br>"What I worry about is we're playing a game of whack-a-mole here," McCain said. <br><br>Rumsfeld argued that the U.S. needed to continue its effort in Iraq, and he urged Congress to resist calls to set a deadline for pulling troops out of the country. <br><br>Pace and Abizaid said the Iraqi government remained the bulwark against a civil war. Abizaid said Maliki was committed to a unified country, and he said he thought the Iraqi military would be able to protect residents and hold the country together. <br><br>But Abizaid acknowledged that many of the local and national police units in Iraq had been taken over by militias and did not owe their primary allegiance to the government. He said he thought that about 30% of the national police battalions should be taken off duty and retrained, presumably to ensure their loyalty to the national government. <br><br>Under questioning by Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.), Abizaid said he thought Iraq would begin to move toward balance in the next five years. <br><br>"I'm confident that the Iraqi security forces, with good governance coupled together, will bring the country toward equilibrium, because the alternative is so stark," he said. <br><br>Copyright 2006 Los Angeles Times <br><br> *** <br><br>San Francisco Chronicle - Aug 4, 2006 <br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2006/08/04/MNGILK...">www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/ar.../MNGILK...</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--> <br><br>Generals paint bleak picture for Iraq <br><br>All-out civil war possible soon, 2 top military officials tell senators <br><br>by John Koopman <br>Chronicle Staff Writer <br><br><br>Two of America's top generals now say the situation in Iraq could soon turn into a full-fledged civil war, an assessment most experts agree will prove true if the United States doesn't move quickly to provide security, jobs and an effective government in a nation long without any of those. <br><br>"We do have the possibility of that devolving into a civil war," Gen. Peter Pace, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, told the Senate Armed Services Committee in Washington on Thursday. <br><br>"Iraq could move toward civil war," said Gen. John Abizaid, the top U.S. commander in the Middle East. <br><br>It was a rare use of the term "civil war" by anyone in the top echelons of American government. Other officials, from President Bush on down, have long contended that the term is inaccurate to describe the kind of fighting that has taken place in the past year. <br><br>But Pace and Abizaid told the Senate committee that the violence in Baghdad is as bad as they've seen it since the United States invaded Iraq in March 2003. Pace expressed surprise that the situation had unraveled as far as it has. <br><br>"They're always surprised," John Pike, a military analyst who runs the Web site Globalsecurity.org, said in an interview. <br><br>Pike said Americans tend to perceive war in terms of sports analogies -- that the rules remain the same and that everyone keeps score in the same way. <br><br>"In a war, you change the rules all the time," he said. "You change what you're doing in order to gain an advantage over the enemy. In sports, you assume it's a fair fight. But war is unfair. You never want to get into a fair fight." <br><br>Pace said the issue of civil war in Iraq is ultimately up to the Iraqis to resolve. <br><br>"Shiite and Sunni are going to have to love their children more than they hate each other," he said. "The weight of that must be on the Iraqi people and the Iraqi government." <br><br>Anthony Cordesman, a respected military analyst at the Center for Strategic and International Studies in Washington, said in an interview that it is still too early to determine the outcome in Iraq. Certainly, he said, Iraq could benefit from more U.S. troops on the ground to help with security and stabilization -- but only if they are properly trained and put into positions that will help the Iraqis. <br><br>"Boots on the ground is only useful if there are brains above those boots," he said, adding that the U.S. military is not well-prepared for many of its units to conduct counterinsurgency operations. <br><br>Acknowledgment that the sectarian violence in Iraq could devolve into civil war could not come at a worse time for the Bush administration. Just weeks ago, Gen. George Casey, the top U.S. commander in Iraq, had suggested that troop levels, now around 133,000, might be reduced by the end of the year. <br><br>Abizaid told the committee that troop reductions still might be possible. "But I think the most important thing to imagine is Baghdad coming under the control of the Iraqi government," he said. <br><br>The downbeat testimony at Thursday's hearings brought sharp criticism from committee members, even from supporters of the war. Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., described counterinsurgency efforts as "whack-a-mole," in which generals try to curb violence in one area only to see it pop up somewhere else. <br><br>"It's very disturbing," said McCain. "And if it's all up to the Iraqi military ... then I wonder why we have to move troops into Baghdad to intervene in what is clearly sectarian violence." <br><br>The possibility of civil war in Iraq also led to a sharp exchange between Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, D-N.Y., and Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld. Clinton told Rumsfeld he was "presiding over a failed policy" in Iraq. <br><br>"My goodness," Rumsfeld replied, then restated administration positions. "Our role is to support the government. The government is holding together. The armed forces are holding together," he said. <br><br>Michael O'Hanlon, senior fellow in foreign policy studies at the Brookings Institution in Washington, said he still does not consider Iraq to be in a state of civil war. While some analysts have said the sectarian violence was an inevitable result of the war, O'Hanlon said that's an unfair assessment. <br><br>"Until 2006, you really didn't see a lot of sectarian violence in Iraq," O'Hanlon said. "There were a lot of predictions, but it didn't happen until the bombing of the mosque in Samarra. You had 2 1/2 years of history affirming that it would not happen, and it was tempting to hope that it would continue." <br><br>O'Hanlon said it is still possible to attain some degree of stability in Iraq, but "it's going to be violent for a long time to come." <br><br>Pike, from Globalsecurity.org, said the sectarian violence and prospect of civil war is a tactic being used by those who do not want a democratic or stable Iraq. "The thinking is, if you turn it up a little bit, the Americans will turn around and go home," he said. <br><br>Pike said the stakes in Iraq remain high -- not just for the future of the region, but the lives of everyday Iraqis. <br><br>"We are preventing a genocidal civil war that would make Bosnia look like a day at the beach," he said. "That's something worth fighting for." <br><br>Pike said what looks like civil war now has actually been going on for decades, only in a different manner. Before the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq, the dominant Sunnis fought and killed both Shiites and Kurds at different times. It just wasn't as equitable before. <br><br>"Complex is a good word in connection with Iraq," he said. "Any comment about Iraq that does not include that word is incomplete." <br><br>Cordesman said the U.S. and Iraqi governments can do several things to turn the situation around: <br><br>- There needs to be a well-accepted program of reconciliation to bring insurgents, militias and the government together. <br><br>- The government needs to develop a jobs program, to get money into people's pockets and give them a reason not to fight. <br><br>- Security must be strengthened and local government given more responsibility for taking care of their citizens, he said. <br><br>O'Hanlon, too, said there are many ways in which the American and Iraqi governments can suppress the violence and improve the lives of Iraqi citizens. He said they need to rehabilitate low-level Baath Party members, many of whom are thought to be members of the insurgency. In addition, an equitable oil-revenue sharing program needs to be put in place so that each faction has a good reason to make it work. As it stands, he said, the Kurds and the Shiites are overly concerned with taking as much of the profits as possible. <br><br>Cordesman said one of the major problems facing Iraq is that the U.S. military has never adequately prepared to conduct counterinsurgency warfare. The last war of this type was Vietnam, he said, and none of the current senior leaders in the military were around for that conflict. <br><br>"The only thing the commanders had in common after the fall of Saddam Hussein is that they were doing something they hadn't done before," Cordesman said. <br><br>The Americans, he said, were too slow to recognize the need for economic development in Iraq. They were hung up on the idea of using American contractors for rebuilding projects, and they didn't understand the need to develop an honest and useful criminal-justice program nationwide, among other things. <br><br>"They were too slow to give the Iraqis real security," he said. "There were a lot of things they could have done to make the whole thing viable. Nothing that happened was inevitable." <br><br>Contentious term <br><br>U.S. officials have long contended that the term "civil war" is inaccurate to describe the kind of fighting that has taken place in Iraq in the past year. <br><br>"What we've seen is a serious effort by them to foment civil war, but I don't think they've been successful." -Vice President Dick Cheney, March 19 <br><br>"We all recognize that there is a violence, that there's sectarian violence. But the way I look at the situation is that the Iraqis took a look and decided not to go to civil war." -President Bush, March 21 <br><br>"It's very alluring to politicians here to try to make the situation sound like civil war everywhere. No, there are parts of Iraq where life is proceeding with a fair degree of normalcy." -White House spokesman Tony Snow, July 24 <br><br>"It is not a classic civil war at this stage. ... Is it a high level of sectarian violence? Yes, it is. And are people being killed? Yes. And is it unfortunate? Yes. And is the government doing basically the right things? I think so." -Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, Wednesday <br><br>[Chronicle news services contributed to this report] <br><br><br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: US Generals in Iraq: Dumb, Dumber & Dumberer

Postby HMKGrey » Sun Aug 06, 2006 4:15 am

Too fucking right, Starman. <br><br>These guys are like an object lesson in fucking up, passing the buck and taking a shit on the little guy. It's OUTRAGEOUS. Makes me want to scream. They have the blood of thousands upon thousands of innocents on their hands and they act like they got the envelope order wrong. And people buy it!! The same people who are making millionaires of half the Tom, Dick and Harry's who can write an even half good self-improvement book for the US market. <br><br>Unbelievable. Pass the whiskey. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: US Generals in Iraq: Dumb, Dumber & Dumberer

Postby bvonahsen » Sun Aug 06, 2006 4:11 pm

Nice rant.<br><br>I don't believe that they really are that stupid. Nobody is. I once thought that perhaps they were blinded by their ideology but I don't accept that either anymore. Our government is a club for sociopaths (Rumsfeld, Cheney) and their "narssistic personality disorder" hangers on (like Lieberman or McCain). <br><br>Or in other words, thugs and gangsters have learned how to game the system. It's one big game of king of the hill, get to the top by any means necessary but never ever let the public in on it. Don't want to ruin everything now do we? Hence the lies get spun, the tall tails told. Why? because they can, there are no consequences. The media is just another corporation persuing it's bottom line.<br><br>Sometimes... a little humor helps... Here is <!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://dilbertblog.typepad.com/the_dilbert_blog/2006/07/secret_society.html">Scott Adams' (Dilbert creator)</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--> take on this.<br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Secret Society<br><br>My favorite conspiracy theory is the one that says the world is being run by a handful of ultra-rich capitalists, and that our elected governments are mere puppets. I sure hope it’s true. Otherwise my survival depends on hordes of clueless goobers electing competent leaders. That’s about as likely as a dog pissing the Mona Lisa into a snow bank.<br><br>The only way I can get to sleep at night is by imagining a secret cabal of highly competent puppetmasters who are handling the important decisions while our elected politicians debate flag burning and the definition of marriage.<br><br>It’s the only explanation for how the governments of the world could be staffed with morons and yet everything still runs okay, sort of. Granted, things aren’t perfect, but when you hear our leaders talk, you have to wonder why our energy policy doesn’t involve burning asbestos on playgrounds. There must be some competent people pulling the strings behind the curtain, adjusting the money supply, twiddling with interest rates, choosing the winners for American Idol, and that sort of thing.<br><br>I know some of you will say that it’s obvious that corporate money influences the government. But that’s not enough to make me feel comfortable. I want to know there’s an actual meeting of the puppetmasters every Thursday at 3 pm. I want to know that when one of them suggests a new policy that the group votes by pressing buttons on their chairs and if the idea is deemed bad, the offender drops through a hole in the floor and is eaten by a golden shark. You can’t tell me that democracy produces better policies than the golden shark method.<br><br>I also dream of one day being invited to join the secret cabal as an apprentice puppetmaster. I wouldn’t qualify based on my net worth, so I’d have to hope there was a Dilbert fan in the group. Dilbert fans are unpredictable, so there’s some chance he’d just want to extract the carbon from my body and keep it in a locket. The puppetmasters probably have a machine for just that purpose. But it’s a chance I’m willing to take.<br><br>Once I got on the inside (of the cabal, not the locket) I would distinguish myself with my excellent ideas for running the world. For example, I would require that cigarette butts be made of soy protein so that street people could eat the ones they find in the cracks of sidewalks. It’s good for the environment and everyone wins. That’s my best idea, but I’ll bet you have a few of your own.<br><br>Any ideas?<br><hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>It helps to develop a good sense of humor. I mean it, I've been homeless and on the street twice, it helps you survive. It did for me. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: US Generals in Iraq: Dumb, Dumber & Dumberer

Postby Joe Hillshoist » Mon Aug 07, 2006 12:22 am

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>It’s the only explanation for how the governments of the world could be staffed with morons and yet everything still runs okay, sort of.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>That was a great little rave.<br><br>Cept that bit. What planet is he on that he thinks everything still runs ok, sort of?<br><br>I dunno what nicotene flavored soy chews would actually be like to eat, but I guess if I was starving I mightn't care.<br><br>They might make durries taste worse too, that could help me quit.<br><br>All in all I'm just gonna have a shot of that whiskey, pass it over HMK. <p></p><i></i>
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