"as long as i'm president, we're in iraq"

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"as long as i'm president, we're in iraq"

Postby so buttons » Thu Aug 17, 2006 2:06 am

<!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-bush16aug16,1,4241763.story?coll=la-headlines-world&ctrack=1&cset=true" target="top">Bush Dismisses the Idea of Partitioning Iraq</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--><br>President tells analysts dividing the country wouldn't end violence and indicates no policy changes are planned.<br>By Paul Richter and Peter Wallsten, Times Staff Writers<br>August 16, 2006 <br><br>WASHINGTON — President Bush told Middle East experts at a private meeting this week that a three-way division of Iraq would only worsen sectarian violence and was not an option for solving the country's problems, the analysts said Tuesday. <br><br>Rejecting a policy alternative that has been gaining support in the U.S. and abroad, <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>Bush told the experts that dividing Iraq would be "like pouring oil on fire,"</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> said Eric M. Davis of Rutgers University, one of the experts who met with the president Monday over Texas brisket and iced tea at the Pentagon. <br><br>The experts said in interviews that Bush signaled that he intended to make no policy changes in Iraq, despite warnings from military leaders and election-year arguments from Democrats that the war is a drain on resources and a distraction from the administration's campaign against terrorism.<br><br>Although only a minority has been in favor of dividing Iraq into Shiite, Sunni and Kurdish sections since the 2003 invasion, the unrelenting pace of sectarian killings and a stalled reconstruction effort have sparked rethinking among many U.S. officials, their allies and Iraqis.<br><br>Some Iraqi Shiite and Kurdish leaders recently expressed support for the idea. In the United States, so have Sen. Joseph R. Biden Jr. of Delaware, the senior Democrat on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee and a potential 2008 presidential candidate, and former State Department officials Peter Galbraith and Leslie H. Gelb.<br><br>Davis said that when he began enumerating the reasons it would be a mistake to divide Iraq, Bush interrupted. "He was going, 'Yes, yes,' while I was making that point," Davis said.<br><br>Reuel Marc Gerecht, a Mideast analyst at American Enterprise Institute, said Bush asserted that the partition idea was "not even a starter," and that he also made it clear that <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>"as long as he's president, we're in Iraq." </strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><br><br>Carole O'Leary, an American University research professor and Iraq expert, said Bush "was adamant that, despite any conspiracy theories out there in the Islamic world or anywhere else, the United States is not in there to break up the place." <br><br>White House Press Secretary Tony Snow elaborated later Tuesday.<br><br>"It may provide kind of a nice construct — break it apart, and then it won't be a problem," Snow said. "Iraqis look upon themselves … as Iraqis, as the descendants of a Mesopotamian civilization that has been around for a very long time. <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>And they see themselves as a nationality, rather than unmeltable ethnic groups." </strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><br><br>Bush met with the experts during two days of sessions with Cabinet officials and others focusing on Iraq, terrorism and national security issues.<br><br>The sessions were held as White House strategists are taking every opportunity to focus — for the third election cycle in a row — on national security as the winning issue. <br><br>Republicans seized on the results of the Connecticut Democratic primary last week, in which the pro-Iraq war Sen. Joe Lieberman lost to political newcomer Ned Lamont, as evidence of a "defeatist" Democratic Party. The GOP, struggling to overcome sour approval ratings on Iraq and other issues, then circled around the British investigation of an alleged plot to bomb U.S.-bound airliners as a campaign issue.<br><br>Democrats said the alleged terrorist plot showed that the U.S. was not any safer since the Sept. 11 attacks.<br><br>The political dynamic was evident throughout this week's presidential meetings. Photo opportunities depicted a president at work while he reiterated election-year themes, such as the controversial domestic spying program that the White House says is crucial for investigating terrorists.<br><br><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>"America is safer than it has been," Bush said Tuesday after a meeting at the National Counterterrorism Center outside Washington. "But it's not yet safe."</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><br><br>Vice President Dick Cheney touched on the same themes Tuesday at a fundraising event in Arizona.<br><br>"Here in the U.S., we have not had another 9/11," Cheney said. "No one can guarantee that we won't be hit again. But the relative safety of recent years was not an accident. It's because we've waged an effort on every front — diplomacy, finance, intelligence, homeland security and, when necessary, military action." <br><br>Bush has brought in experts for previous sessions apparently designed to show that, contrary to what critics say, he is open to new ideas. Snow said the idea was to avoid appearances before "amen choruses." <br><br>"These are not meetings where he comes in and gets cheerleaders," Snow said.<br><br>But the analysts who attended the Pentagon lunch, which lasted nearly two hours, said it was arranged as a fact-gathering session, rather than a policy debate. Although at least three of the four experts have criticized U.S. policy in the Middle East, none has called for U.S. withdrawal from Iraq.<br><br>The fourth analyst, Vali R. Nasr, of the Naval Postgraduate School, said Bush wasn't interested in a specific policy discussion.<br><br>"I didn't give an opinion about policy," said Nasr, who is the author of "The Shia Revival: How Conflicts Within Islam Will Shape the Future." "They didn't ask if it was a good policy or not." <br><br>Nasr added that "nothing I heard suggests an immediate policy shift." <br><br>Gerecht, of the American Enterprise Institute, said that though there was no policy debate, "I think it's fair to say that there is an awareness that there are some serious problems and they need to deal with them." <br><br>The experts each volunteered that they were impressed by Bush's knowledge of the complexities of the situation in Iraq. American University's O'Leary said she was not sure Bush or his aides learned anything new.<br><br>"I believe he was very open to what everybody said," she said. "It just happened that what we expressed, each of our sets of points, are things that they're already thinking about."<br><br><br>*********************<br><br>brief thoughts:<br>a.) tony snow, if the iraqis "see themselves as a nationality, rather than unmeltable ethnic groups," why the excessive sectarian violence out of which you get so much mileage ("it's not a civil war, it's sectarian violence")? is it only <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>we</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> (or should i say, <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>you people</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END-->?) who see them as unmeltable ethnic groups? aren't the two mutually exclusive - one nationality having a civil war, or fighting among ethnic groups?<br>b.) i find it rather disconcerting that bush's "america is safer than it has been, but it it's not safe yet" quote is placed directly below a reference to the illegal wiretapping program - i.e., america won't be safe until all of your freedoms have been extracted.<br>c.) what a truly dynamic leader bush must be if he can be "very open to what everybody (i.e., a "diverse" array of middle east policy experts and analysts, none of whom have ever endorsed withdrawl from iraq) said" while at the same time maintaining in no uncertain terms that his policy shan't change for the tenure of his presidency.<br><br>"these are not meetings where he comes in and gets cheerleaders."<br>well, if tony snow says it, it <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>must</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> be true! <p></p><i></i>
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not yet safe

Postby km artlu » Thu Aug 17, 2006 4:13 am

Rhetoric over the last week or so could indicate that they've recognized the need for a successful strike in the not too distant future.<br><br>Administration figures have been stressing the fabulous job they've done in keeping us safe, adding the modifier that our safety is not yet guaranteed.<br><br>That Miami caper was met with general derision and quickly faded, like a bad movie going straight to video.<br><br>A loan shark needs a guy who's been sloppy with his payments to show up in the neighborhood on crutches from time to time. Otherwise threats alone begin to lose effectiveness. <p></p><i></i>
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To the Warmongers

Postby Trifecta » Thu Aug 17, 2006 6:14 am

I’m back again from Hell<br>With loathsome thoughts to sell;<br>Secrets of death to tell;<br>And horrors from the abyss.<br><br>Young faces bleared with blood,<br>Sucked down into the mud,<br>You shall hear things like this,<br>Till the tormented slain<br>Crawl round and once again,<br>With limbs that twist awry<br>Moan out their brutish pain,<br>As the fighters pass them by.<br><br>For you our battles shine<br>With triumph half-divine;<br>And the glory of the dead<br>Kindles in each proud eye.<br><br>But a curse is on my head,<br>That shall not be unsaid,<br>And the wounds in my heart are red,<br>For I have watched them die.<br><br>- Siegfried Sassoon, 1917<br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: To the Warmongers

Postby Gouda » Thu Aug 17, 2006 7:45 am

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Vice President Dick Cheney touched on the same themes Tuesday at a fundraising event in Arizona.<br><br>"Here in the U.S., we have not had another 9/11," Cheney said. "No one can guarantee that we won't be hit again. But the relative safety of recent years was not an accident. It's because we've waged an effort on every front — diplomacy, finance, intelligence, homeland security and, when necessary, military action."<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: not yet safe

Postby StarmanSkye » Thu Aug 17, 2006 9:51 am

Km Artlu sed:<br><br>"A loan shark needs a guy who's been sloppy with his payments to show up in the neighborhood on crutches from time to time. Otherwise threats alone begin to lose effectiveness."<br><br>****<br><br>Well-spoken!<br><br>"...safer but not yet safe ..." -- VP Cheney<br><br>--That's about all the neocons have to offer: Abstract, unqualified, impossible-to-prove pie-inna-sky platitudes aimed at weak-minded infotainment consumers with high signal-to-noise thresholds.<br><br>Starman <p></p><i></i>
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