Loose Change - a must see

by **Iroquois** » Sun Apr 02, 2006 12:32 pm

StarmanSkye said: <blockquote>Quote:<hr> Despite my best efforts, I've been underwhelmed by the readily available information on the net that takes into full-account the likely involvement of the WTC tower's void-spaces (elevator, utility, mechanical/stairway spaces) as a chimney providing a huge volume of oxygen from the vast underground spaces that connected all the WTC buildings in the block (excluding WTC 7), and which ventilation-ports included truck-ramps and elevators and subway-passageways. The underground concourse-system was a HUGE space -- obviously, since most of the 200,000 TONS of mass-material comprising the two 1300 ft. towers fell-into and filled these spaces with their mostly finely-crushed, pulverized components. <hr></blockquote> Wow, I don't recall anyone advancing that idea, Starman. But, it has really gotten me thinking. Now, consider the following quote from chiefengineer.org provided by whipstitch the other day: <blockquote>Quote:<hr> "Mike Pecoraro ... worked as a Stationary Engineer on a roving crew that serviced all of the buildings at the complex ... decided to ascend the stairs to the C level, to a small machine shop ... arrived at the C level ... found the machine shop gone. "There was nothing there but rubble", Mike said. "We're talking about a 50 ton hydraulic press gone!" ... made their way to the parking garage, but found that it, too, was gone. "There were no walls, there was rubble on the floor, and you can't see anything" he said ... decided to ascend two more levels to the building's lobby ... ascended to the B Level, one floor above ... astonished to see a steel and concrete fire door that weighed about 300 pounds, wrinkled up "like a piece of aluminum foil" and lying on the floor." <a href="http://www.chiefengineer.org/article.cfm?seqnum1=1029">www.chiefengineer.org/art...qnum1=1029</a> <hr></blockquote> The question that has been asked many times, and I know I've harbored the same question myself, is why would explosives in the basement and possibly lobby of WTC 1 (and elevator shafts of both towers?) need to be deliberately set off at the time the first plane struck? Let's assume that the architects and engineers that created, modeled, and reviewed the plans for the WTC towers recognized this problem of fires drawing air from the massive underground spaces beneath the towers and addressed it with partitions, fire doors, etc. before construction was completed. Again, the actual plans would be helpful here, but we have to work with what we've got. Now, we have an incentive for the perpetrators to set off some explosions at the moment of impact, to create flues from the basements and up through the buildings via the elevator shafts to feed air to the fires started by the ignition of the jet fuel in the towers high above. Though the plan may not have succeeded as well as they had hoped, it at least follows logic if the above suppositions are true. So, what do the rest of you think?

by **Dreams End** » Sun Apr 02, 2006 1:45 pm

Iroquois, Try <a href="http://www.implosionworld.com/">www.implosionworld.com/</a> and then look for "cinema explosif". If there were bombs in the basement, the most logical assumption is that something in the basement needed to be destroyed. Bad guys stealing stuff....stuff that needed to be hidden...who knows? I don't think there would be any need to do that to drop the building...especially since they came way before. We might all have a look at implosion world...it's not just videos. Maybe there's more info there.

by **Iroquois** » Sun Apr 02, 2006 3:36 pm

Thanks Dreams End. I'll have to wait until I have a faster connection to watch the video, though. My point about opening air passages was to feed the ensuing fire, not to contribute significantly to the collapse of the buildings. I'm still sticking to my theory that the buildings were brought down by pre-set explosives in the towers themselves as a normal fire, even one with some improved aspiration, could not have been counted on to result in complete and roughly vertical collapse. The fire would be largely for visual effect, but also to provide better cover for the eventual global collapse. Granted, the following photo is taken at night. But, f the fire had raged more like this... <img src="http://www.global-conspiracies.com/madrid_fire.jpg"/> ...I doubt there would be nearly as much debate on this subject. Not to mention, the visual effect would have been, I believe, more terrifying.

by **Iroquois** » Sun Apr 02, 2006 8:24 pm

You had convinced me that there's more than just vaporization of water in the explosive reactions between water and molten aluminum, Dreams End. But, I wanted to figure out what was going on there before I commented it, as I still suspected it was not a thermite reaction. Here's what I found on Reference Data Sheet for Aluminum By: William D. Sheridan, CIH, CHMM. The URL is: <a href="http://www.meridianeng.com/aluminum.html">www.meridianeng.com/aluminum.html</a> <blockquote>Quote:<hr> REACTIONS AND INCOMPATIBILITIES Hydrogen Generating Reactions Aluminum is a very reactive metal, and the greatest industrial hazards associated with aluminum are chemical reactions. Aluminum is an excellent reducing agent, and should react with water readily to liberate hydrogen. However, the protective aluminum oxide coating protects it from reaction with moisture or oxygen. If the protective coating is broken, for example, by scratching or by amalgamation (the process of coating with a film of mercury in which the metallic aluminum dissolves; the aluminum oxide coating does not adhere to the amalgamated surface), rapid reaction with moisture and/or oxygen can occur. The significance of this reaction is dependent upon the quantity of aluminum available to react. Aluminum is also oxidized by heat at a temperature dependent rate. <hr></blockquote> In other words, this is about freeing hydrogen in the presence of molten aluminum, which has a melting point above the auto ignition temperature of the hydrogen, and the hydrogen is very likely to combust. That's definitely not the thermite reaction Greening was implying, however. The above document then goes on to describe thermite reactions, which we've already discussed, and the fairly rare aluminum dust explosions. It then lists the implication of the described the potential hazards associated with aluminum. The highlighting is added to point out another problem with Greening's spontaneous thermite theory to those who still think it has some value to this discussion despite his implausible assertion that the oxidants thermite reactions any near the scale needed to affect the structural elements of the WTC towers would be available. <blockquote>Quote:<hr> IMPLICATIONS Lack of awareness of the potential hazards and reactivities associated with aluminum powder may exist because: * Aluminum powder is naturally protected with a barrier of aluminum oxide which may prevent reactions at times; * Thermite reactions usually require a strong ignition source and therefore do not often occur in unplanned situations, although optimum conditions could allow these reactions to occur; * Aluminum dust is not always easily ignitable due to dependency upon particle size, air distribution, and other factors; and, * A false sense of security may exist due to hazard reduction when dealing with coated aluminum powders and pastes. Although organic coatings or pastes may generally offer some protection against dust generation, should dust formation or a fire ensue, the organic compounds may act as additional fuel. <hr></blockquote> Though, I hope I'm just beating a dead horse at this point.

by **Dreams End** » Sun Apr 02, 2006 8:52 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>In other words, this is about freeing hydrogen in the presence of molten aluminum, which has a melting point above the auto ignition temperature of the hydrogen, and the hydrogen is very likely to combust. That's definitely not the thermite reaction Greening was implying, however.<hr></blockquote> He talked about that as well. He suggested this happened in the rubble pile. And I don't know the definition of "strong ignition source". I take it you are implying it needs to be stronger than exploding jet fuel? The thermite reaction was supposed to be between aluminum and iron oxide (which didn't work in Jones's experiment) and also with Calcium Oxide in the concrete. I couldn't find anything about the second...obviously the first is the very definition of thermite in a commercial sense. However, the aluminum coming into contact with water could have accounted for many of the explosions...though I'm sure lots of things explode when heated.

by **StarmanSkye** » Sun Apr 02, 2006 9:25 pm

Iroquis said: --quote-- Let's assume that the architects and engineers that created, modeled, and reviewed the plans for the WTC towers recognized this problem of fires drawing air from the massive underground spaces beneath the towers and addressed it with partitions, fire doors, etc. before construction was completed. Again, the actual plans would be helpful here, but we have to work with what we've got. Now, we have an incentive for the perpetrators to set off some explosions at the moment of impact, to create flues from the basements and up through the buildings via the elevator shafts to feed air to the fires started by the ignition of the jet fuel in the towers high above. Though the plan may not have succeeded as well as they had hoped, it at least follows logic if the above suppositions are true. --unquote-- That's a VERY intriguing suggestion, well worth consideration. I've been stumped by the significance of the evidence for those sub-basement explosions and reported damage -- as reported by Rodriguiz and Meyers, but supplemented I now find by poring thru survivor-accounts. What I'm finding, through all the reports of locked exit and fire-doors that impeded the evacuation of thouands of folks in the towers, is a bizarre pattern of intense smoke and fires at certain levels -- way below the impact sites -- especially the 20s and 40s in the North Tower. Also, numerous survivors reported such bizarre stuff as smashed doors and walls near the ground-floor and the concourse-level just below -- which was the official evacuation-path because of falling-debris (and bodies) in the plaza outside. Folks fleeing North Tower were directed north north-east, exiting aboveground streetside around WTC 6 to cross Vessey onto Broadway. Also bizarre, and perhaps esp. significant considering the premise you raise Iroquis, are reports of MASSIVE waterflow on the lower stairway levels from fractured pipes -- some people reported the water was such a torrent on the stairs that they fell rather than walked down half the steps (esp. from level 10 down), with the water being thigh-deep down around the mezzanine. Now it occurs to me -- might rupturing the water-mains have been intended to disable the Tower's fire-suppression system? It wouldn't do anything to disable the Tower's water-tanks, but it would shut-off city-water supply under pressure to feed standpipes. What about the survivor account where just after impact, the North Tower shuddered, swayed, and DROPPED? Man, I read that and thought. Whathufu? -- thinking of the basement -explosions re: Rodriguiz, and the accounts by survivors of seeing blasted doors and cracked walls; What do you make of THIS account of North Tower evacuation?: -- ""We continued down the stairwell, slowly and at times completely stalled. The smell of jet fuel had gotten so unbearable that people began covering their mouths and noses with anything that they could find - ties, shirts, handkerchiefs. ...Around the 20th or 15th floor, the emergency crew began diverting the people in our stairwell to a different stairwell. They led us out of our stairwell, across the hallway where I saw exhausted firemen and emergency crew sitting on the floor trying to catch their breaths. I began to think why? What's going on? This whole operation looked very confusing. Nobody was giving us any indication as to what was going on. The wait in the hallway to get to the other staircase was excruciatingly long as we had to wait and merge with the people who were coming down the staircase into which we were filing. Why had they diverted us?" -- Sounds like SOMETHING was busted-up broke in that first stairwell -- What and Why? see: <a href="http://www.mjbarkl.com/locked.htm">www.mjbarkl.com/locked.htm</a> This is a compilation of witness testimony from survivors (some incluided below) collected by a structural engineer interested in the problems of locked doors and damage complicating evacuation -- it relates a LOT of very anomalous, freaky damage, intense smoke, and fire in the lower level of the towers -- which I am interested in re: IF the elevator/utility spaces acted as a huge air-flume to feed the upper-floor fires. Seems there were whole floors engulfed in fires in both towers, adding to the smoke in the stairwells, which moght have been caused, in part, by jet-fuel fireballs crashing through elevator/utility shafts. It seems that MANY people were trapped by locked doors -- an issue completely overlooked in the official NIST/FEMA reports. Also not acknowledged is the floor-truss attachment system, which looks like it could have added to the catastrophic failure. A novel theory with links below. "<a href="http://www.nlj.com/special/wt-1.shtml">www.nlj.com/special/wt-1.shtml</a> North tower, huge wind when South collapsed, wind blew people INTO the basement. "Court Officer Edward Kennedy was leading a woman to safety out of the north tower of the World Trade Center when the south tower went down. "The aftershock just took her whole body. All I had left was her arm," said Officer Kennedy. "One minute she was there and the next she was gone."... "...The force of the collapse of the south tower threw Court Officers Teddy Leotsakos, Joe Ranauro and Ty Bacon into the basement of the north tower. ""We were evacuating people out of there and then we heard the rumbling," said Officer Ranauro. ""The windows started to buckle and then the wind just picked us up and blew us into the building," Officer Leotsakos said. "You couldn't see an inch in front of your face." "Rescue personnel broke through the wall of an adjacent Borders Bookstore to extract people from the basement just before the collapse of the north tower. "Officer Bacon was trying to evacuate a young girl who had burns on about 60 percent of her body when they were blown into the building's basement." <a href="http://www.cbsnews.com/now/story/0,1597,314456-412,00.shtml">www.cbsnews.com/now/story...2,00.shtml</a> 86th floor, Tower One. "“It was more of a baloooooom…sounded like an explosion, then a series of other explosions like gas was being ignited,” Louis Lesce, an employment counselor, tells 48 Hours Correspondent Richard Schlesinger. "“Outside the door, the entire ceiling just collapsed and things started hitting the window and the place started filling with smoke.” <a href="http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-091601escape.story">www.latimes.com/news/nati...cape.story</a> [Mayblum explained....] "Adam Mayblum enjoyed the storms that rumbled off the Atlantic.... 87th floor ...During the worst storms, the cords on his window shades would appear to sway a few inches, but it was an illusion. They actually hung straight, held steady by gravity. It was the tower that swayed, to absorb the weather. "When Adam felt the first rumble Tuesday morning, he glanced at the cords. They were oscillating like a pendulum, 3 feet in either direction....Outside, pieces of paper fluttered through the air, "gently," he would say later, "on a breeze." He looked down at the tiny people staring up at him from 876 feet below and offered them a New York retort: ""What're you looking at?" . . . "It was Carmen Griffith. They had worked together for 20 ..........Griffith, who had been standing nearby when a glob of burning jet fuel burst through the elevator shafts, was crawling toward her. Charles looked at Griffith's hands pawing at the floor. Skin was peeling from her fingers. "People sprinted past toward safety, but Charles refused to leave without her friend. With the help of an executive who stopped, she soaked Griffith with water from a nearby office, then picked her up and began a slow walk down 78 flights of stairs. ""She was crying," Charles said. "She was burning." * <a href="http://www.theledger.com/attack/16choi.htm">www.theledger.com/attack/16choi.htm</a> "... John Paul DeVito ...Harry Ramos...1 World Trade Center (87th floor), lurched violently, like a ship in high seas. DeVito was nearly knocked off his chair. Ramos braced himself in a doorway. "Lighting fixtures pulled loose from the ceiling, crashing on the floor. Papers flew. Smoke poured in through holes that suddenly opened overhead. Several employees screamed * <a href="http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/story.hts/special/terror/aftermath/1051698">www.chron.com/cs/CDA/stor...th/1051698</a> "...Yasana Mutuanot...was in the lobby of Tower One when she heard the first explosion. Thinking it was a bomb like the terrorist attack in 1993, she turned to run, looking over her shoulder as flames leaped from a freight elevator shaft cooking her back and legs and right cheek. ""It was a fireball with sand and heat, like a hurricane of fire," she said. "The lobby windows shattered as she stumbled out of the building and fell. She could not regain her footing. Her husband, who had not yet entered the building, arrived at her side. ""I kept asking my husband, `Did I lose my foot? Did I lose my foot?' " she said. "The foot was still attached, but the Achilles' tendon had been severed by debris. She hobbled away with her husband and eventually found an ambulance...." * <a href="http://www.framerate.net/wtc/john.html">www.framerate.net/wtc/john.html</a> , John Labriola: [ Same story, comments from Architect Bob Shelton, not a direct quote, ] "...south tower..."You could hear the building cracking. It sounded like when you have a bunch of spaghetti, and you break it in half to boil it." Shelton knew that what he was hearing was bad. "It was structural failure," Shelton says. "Once a building like that is off center, that's it."" "Even as people streamed down the stairs, the cracks were appearing in the walls as the building shuddered and cringed. Steam pipes burst,... [ see also, <a href="http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,174655-3,00.html">www.time.com/time/nation/...-3,00.html</a> ] and more comment at <a href="http://www.mjbarkl.com/wtc.htm">www.mjbarkl.com/wtc.htm</a> ] * "Blake Altshuler ...2 WTC...64th floor...Morgan Stanley...deafening blast and felt his building shudder. “It wasn’t the definitive Bruce Willis explosion, like you’d hear in ‘Die Hard’ o r something,” he recalls. “It was more like a really loud pop.” (NOTE: This was NOT the building being hit, it was North's impact felt in South) * <a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PASCDiscuss/message/7">groups.yahoo.com/group/PA.../message/7</a> * <a href="http://www.post-gazette.com/headlines/20010916colferap9.asp">www.post-gazette.com/head...ferap9.asp</a> "Judy Colfer...55th floor of One World Trade Center.... "When the group reached the third floor, rescuers told them to be careful of the water. The sprinkler systems had been activated and gone haywire. Water was flowing out underneath the door into the stairwell and there weren't any safety strips on the painted steel stairs. ""When I got to the bottom, where the subway ran through the building, there was five inches of water on the floor," she said. "Rescuers told Colfer and the others they were going to open a set of doors and then guide them through. ""They threw open the doors and it was dark, but you saw one small light," she said. "Once her eyes were acclimated to the darkness, she saw concrete slabs where the walls were on the floor and that the concrete ceiling above had collapsed. ""It was like a bomb had exploded," she said. "I thought, this structure has this much damage and I'm on the bottom. What does the rest of the building look like?" "Colfer and the others felt their way up a ramp, which brought them back up into the shopping mall level of the WTC building. At that point, the time for calm and order was over. ""We're going to throw these doors open and we want you to run!" rescuers told Colfer and the others. ""They threw open the doors and it was all this brightness and we did," she said. "We just ran." "Colfer ran as fast as she could. She wasn't out of the building five minutes when One World Trade Center collapsed.... " (This is important -- it suggests a lot of the damage and debris in North's lower levels, lobby and concourse was from the fall of South) * <a href="http://www.construction.com/NewsCenter/it/people/02-20010912.jsp">www.construction.com/News...010912.jsp</a> "...Craig Trykowski...working with 75 tradespersons and colleagues on interior construction for Lehman Brothers on the 34th floor of the north tower... ""We hit the stairwell; it was a mass panic." They headed down the stairs under seemingly normal conditions but when they got to about the 20th floor, a strong gas smell hit them and by the 17th floor the water pipes had broken and people were tripping on the stairs. "We didn't know what the gas smell was; I told people to put their hands over their mouths," he says. "When we got down was when we saw the smoke. All the glass was blown out in the building."" * <a href="http://www.nwnews.com/editions/20011001/nnfront2.html">www.nwnews.com/editions/2...ront2.html</a> That was when our building (South) was hit. The building shook; we heard an explosion. There was screaming in the stairwell, but people resumed their descent. It was still orderly. It was really amazing. Only now we went down with a little more motivation. There was no pushing, no shoving. If people saw someone who looked as if they might have issues, people stopped and said, 'Hey, are your OK'? or 'Do you need help'? ""Somewhere in the 40s we saw a wall in the stairwell that was buckling in. It had sustained damage. When we started to get down in the teens, that's when the stairwell started to have smoke in it. (NOTE: This suggests the level 40s fire in South were caused by debris from North strike, or an elevator-bank fireball explosion.) * <a href="http://www.redding.com/columnist/tking/stories/20010923coltk008.shtml">www.redding.com/columnist...k008.shtml</a> "...Tyler Nichols... 61st floor of the World Trade Center Tower 2 ...When he reached the 15th floor level in the stairwell, the second jet struck the building he was leaving high above them. He and others thought bombs had gone off. At that point they didn't know jets had crashed into the two buildings. "The building really shook and shuddered and the water pipes in the stairwells burst and they started smoking and that's when I didn't know if we'd make it out," he said...." <a href="http://www.csmonitor.com/2001/0917/p1s1-usgn.html">www.csmonitor.com/2001/09...-usgn.html</a> "Tom Elliott...Aon Corp., an insurance brokerage firm, on the 103rd floor of the World Trade Center's other, south tower..... a bright flash of light startled him, and a rumble shook the structure. Flames appeared to be crawling up the outside of the building, along with dark smoke and debris, burning paper and ash. "Mr. Elliott could feel heat coming through the windows. As far as he knew, it was his building, not the other tower, that was aflame. Oddly, no alarms were going off. The building emergency system was broadcasting no warning. ""I don't know what's happening, but I think I need to be out of here," he remembers thinking. "...Elliott and two others headed down the building stairwell, a narrow beige corridor with a yellow stripe painted down the middle of concrete steps. They ran into a few other people as they descended, but there still hadn't been any announcements, and the absence of other escapees was making them feel as if they had prematurely panicked. "Then, as they reached the 70th floor, they heard an announcement: The building was secure. No one needed to evacuate. "One woman in the small group said to Elliott, "Do you want to believe them? Let's go!" "They had descended three more floors when United Airlines Flight 175 slammed into their own south tower... "...at first he and those around him thought an explosion had come from below. An incredible noise - he calls it an "exploding sound" - shook the building, and a tornado of hot air and smoke and ceiling tiles and bits of drywall came flying up the stairwell. ""In front of me, the wall split from the bottom up," he says. "In a flash of panic, people began fleeing higher into the building. Then a few men began working on the crowd, calming people down, saying that downstairs was the only way out. "As they descended, a few other survivors stumbled into the corridor. A construction painter, his white T-shirt covered in blood, was helped downstairs by others. But the stairwell was still far from jammed with evacuees. (WoW -- get this -- at floor 67, debris and smoke came UP the stairwell in South -- this also suggests a fireball explosion in elevator/iutility spaces. I'm beginning to think that the building-plan's decision to use sheetrock instead of concrete in the core is a BIG factor in what happened.) * <a href="http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/features/092301_FS_survivorsscript.html">abclocal.go.com/wtvd/feat...cript.html</a> '...John Cerqueira...Network Plus...81st floor of World Trade Center Tower Number One. ... and I went back and got down to maybe 44 and the fireman started coming up and that's when we started seeing smoke coming from down there and the doors from the stairways were blowing open from the draft from the windows that were broken. And that's when I figured out that probably something wasn't right; that it wasn't just up top there was something from the bottom happening. . . . firefighters leading John's group finally found their way out, and John couldn't believe what he saw when he entered the lobby area. "The lobby was blown away," John said. "It was all ash and burned and the elevators were blown out the turnstiles that you walk through to get to the elevators were blown out of the wall. The windows were shattered and the frames of the windows were shattered and we walked outside and it looks like it snowed there was so much there. (NOTE: This seems like aftermath of South Tower strike -- with elevator-damage 'blown out' from fireballs exploding through the shaftways). * <a href="http://www.goleader.com/01nov08/sp.pdf">www.goleader.com/01nov08/sp.pdf</a> "...Anthony “Tony” Pecora. (Tower North) "The men carrying Mr. Abruzzo, who is 6-foot-1 and weighs 250 pounds, were accompanied by two women co-workers who carried their briefcases and jackets. At one point, the colleagues switched their descent from the B stairwell to the C stairwell because of smoke and 115-de- gree heat. * Just, incredible: <a href="http://www.episcopal-dso.org/pages/int2001/0110jim.htm">www.episcopal-dso.org/pag...110jim.htm</a> "...An interview with the Venerable James A. Hanisian, Archdeacon and Chief of Staff "...I sat down with this guy who became my "buddy." Tim's story was that he was on the 86th floor of the second tower, when the plane hit the first tower. They started to evacuate, but after going down a dozen flights they were instructed that it was only the first tower that had been hit and that they could go back. So he was opening the door on the 74th floor at the exact moment that the second plane crashed into the 74th floor. He actually saw the wing before the explosion. He was splashed with jet fuel, but the explosion blew him back into the stairwell, saving his life. * More, level-40 damage in North: <a href="http://www.gjsentinel.com/auto/feed/features/2001/12/23/1009089283.20432.8185.4701.html">www.gjsentinel.com/auto/f....4701.html</a> "We were on the 40th floor (I think) when some firemen and police officers moved us to another stairwell since the one we were in was too congested. As we walked across the hallways to get to the south side stairwell, the stench of jet fuel permeated the air, and a ceiling down one of the corridors had collapsed. ... "Somewhere along the descent below the 30th floor, we felt more than heard another loud boom along with a terrific wind blast, which made the building shake. (The collapse of South) When Paul opened that door and pulled me into the lobby of our building, I was totally unprepared for what I saw even, though I now fully realized that the building was under attack. There was broken marble and glass everywhere. What was once an atmosphere of sophistication was now rubble and ruin. I could hear water running like a gentle fall amidst the chaos and ruin. I had noticed on our way down the stairs that some of the women had taken off their shoes and left them in the stairwell on their hurried journey downward. Now I could hear cries of pain as they stepped on the glass with their bare feet. The saddest and most poignant memory was that of seeing people turn to the left as we came out into the lobby. Turning left was choosing death since it led into the concourse of the building, and some of my fellow victims did so. * <a href="http://www.panix.com/~owsj/11SeptMurraySt.html">www.panix.com/~owsj/11SeptMurraySt.html</a> "Ken McLellan . . . My Account-... I worked in One World Trade Center on the 35th floor ... "Immediately, there was an explosion and the whole building moved. I almost fell out of my chair. I felt like I was on a boat. My heart started racing. "What the f**k was that?", I thought to myself. Then, I smelled jet fuel. * AND THIS: <a href="http://www.deaftown.com/communitycenter/news/archive/Dateline011120.html">www.deaftown.com/communit...11120.html</a> "...Narrator: ... At 9:30, they emerged from the cramped stairwell to a horrifying scene. Some of the elevators had become fireballs, melted beyond recognition. Sue [ Zupnik ](This lady and her friend who escaped together from the 43rd floor restaurant were deaf --perhaps that's why she had such good perception skills) : It was all warped. My jaw dropped. I couldn’t believe it...." "At the concourse level, they were doused by sprinklers. They looked carefully around them, learning what they could from what they saw. "Sheetrock fell from the walls," says Andreasen. "Elevator doors were melted and twisted. I knew there must be a terrible fire in the elevator shafts." * <a href="http://www.islandhts.com/mysurviv.htm">www.islandhts.com/mysurviv.htm</a> North Tower re: ruptured pipe: "...When we were almost all the way down we came upon a floor that had water pouring out from a ruptured pipe. This caused a waterfall all the rest of the way down, there were several inches of water on the floor, but it was passable and did not slow us up much. * <a href="http://www.rice.edu/projects/reno/rn/20011115/Templates/survivor.html">www.rice.edu/projects/ren...vivor.html</a> "...Bill Forney ’96... 85th floor of One World Trade Center. An employee of SMW Trading Co., sitting in the center of the office with his back to the windows. He was stretching and sighing after having completed his reports when suddenly a “horrific” explosion rumbled through the building. The air pressure dropped, and a high-pitched noise pierced the office. A “ghostly” column of air shot through the room, whipped up papers and slammed doors shut. "Then the building started to yaw. The structure moved back and forth about 10 times, throwing Forney to the floor. “It scared me to the point that I thought I was going to die,” he recalled. “I remember looking up and asking myself, ‘When are the floors above us coming down?’” * "After about an hour of maneuvering the stairwells, Forney and his group reached the lobby, but the unnerving sight of the outside world brought no reassurance. “On the ground you saw black, some metal objects, but a lot of stuff was smoldering,” Forney said. “I remember seeing a leg, but I didn’t see the body.” "Firefighters led the group to the escalators and down into the underground system of the World Trade Center. The normally active tunnels were abandoned, and the automatic sprinklers had created deep puddles of water. An eerie sense of danger permeated the place, Forney recalled. "They continued walking slowly toward the street level. Suddenly, Forney heard a rumbling and thought it was water rushing through the tunnel. “It grew louder, and I realized it was people running and screaming and yelling, ‘Everybody run!’ When the underground went black, Forney took some steps, and heard someone else yell, “Everybody dive!” Forney found a cubbyhole and curled up, closed his eyes and prayed to God that he wouldn’t die. Two World Trade Center, the second building hit by a plane, was collapsing, only minutes after Forney had left the lobby. "“The blast was like a hurricane,” Forney said. “For the second time in an hour, I thought I was going to die.” "When Forney first opened his eyes, he couldn’t see through the darkness. He, Rob and Juliette saw a glimmer of light. It was a fireman with a floodlight. They formed a human chain and followed the firefighter for about 80 yards to a broken escalator that deposited them onto the street...." <a href="http://4bypass.com/archives/nov%2D01.htm">4bypass.com/archives/nov%2D01.htm</a> "Marvin W. Pickrum,...85th floor inside Tower One....It felt like the building leaned, like standing with your back to the waves in the ocean." "...SMW Trading Company. He still didn't know what was going on outside when his knees suddenly buckled. He only saw the clear blue skies out the window. ""But when I turned around all I saw was the fire and smoke," he recalled. "I saw a silhouette of my own body and my arms were singed. I got a full breath of air, then..." "At about 10 a.m., however, the South Tower suddenly collapsed next door. By this time Pickrum and the others were on the verge of panic. They were trapped on the fourth floor. ""It felt like an earthquake," Pickrum recalled, adding, "That's when the lights suddenly went out. There was smoke above us and below us, so we go through the exit door into this hallway, but..." "The hallway was on fire, too. The flames were hot, so hot that it would eventually cause the North Tower to finally collapse as well. Pickrum had no idea that the South Tower had just collapsed, though, because no one could see what was going on outside. ""I'm right in the middle of this fire and, you know, the heat and smoke were so hot that you couldn't breathe," Pickrum says. "I even started to panic at that point." "Pickrum was prepared to take his chances by leaping out the window. There was no other way to escape from the fire. There was no other way to get some air into his smoke-filled lungs. He didn't want to die, but he and the others were now trapped inside the building. "At some point Pickrum made the decision to jump. "I decided that I'm not going to be burned alive," he recalled. "He was now beyond desperate. It was a miracle he had made it down this far. Then, just as everything seemed hopeless, Pickrum saw the miraculous images of firefighters coming in with flashlights and water hoses. That was the only thing that stopped him from going out the window. * ANOTHER, amazing -- shock cocoon spares 11 lives as North Tower collapses: <a href="http://www.sptimes.com:80/News/093001/Worldandnation/By_saving_woman__resc.shtml">www.sptimes.com:80/News/0...resc.shtml</a> "By saving woman, rescuers saved themselves "©New York Times "© St. Petersburg Times, "published September 30, 2001 "NEW YORK -- The six firefighters would have moved faster if they hadn't stopped to help a weary woman trying to flee. They would have moved slower if they hadn't been able to coax her along, telling her that if she wanted to see her children and grandchildren again, she had to keep moving down the stairs. "It was that precise intersection of rescuers and rescued, that destined bit of timing, not a few seconds less or more, that let them all survive inside a twisted stairwell of the World Trade Center when the north tower crashed down on them. The woman and the firefighters, in the actions they took, saved one another. "...six men of Ladder Company 6... a group of men and one woman trapped for three hours inside a sliver of stairs, lucky enough to be between the second and fourth floors, for there were no longer any floors above them, and beneath them was impassable debris. But they kept their wits until the sun shone through and they climbed out. ""There's no reason we should be alive," firefighter Matt Komorowski said....morning of the 11th, six men were on duty -- Mike Meldrum, Komorowski, Bill Butler, Tom Falco, Sal D'Agostino and the captain, John Jonas. "...The men, each carrying about 100 pounds of gear, entered Stairway B and climbed. People descending cheered them on. "Jonas figured the fire had probably spread as low as the 80th floor. He had to pace his men or they would be too spent to help. Every 8 or 10 floors they rested. "When they reached the 27th floor, the entire building shook. The other tower had collapsed. ""Okay, if that building can go," the captain announced, "this building can go. It's time to head down." "Descending, Butler noticed a man who he thought looked Middle Eastern, clutching a stuffed animal, possibly a lion. Police officers grabbed him, handcuffed him, and hustled him down the stairs. The stuffed lion fell on the ground. "Somewhere around the 14th or 15th floor, they encountered a middle-aged woman. Her name was Josephine Harris. She worked for the Port Authority and had been walking down from the 73rd floor. She was exhausted. Butler folded her arm around his neck and began moving. ""I could hear the clock ticking in the back of my head," Jonas said. "I'm thinking, "C'mon, c'mon. We've got to keep moving."' "They wouldn't think of abandoning Harris. But they recognized that she was slowing them down. Others were passing them and moving out of sight. "Harris collapsed nearing the fourth floor. Butler asked her about her family. She told him she had grown children and grandchildren. Butler said, "Your grandchildren and your kids want to see you at home. You've got to pick up the pace here." Falco lifted her from the other side. "Jonas scoured the fourth floor for a chair to carry her in. Neither the nearby swiveling receptionist's chair nor some couches would work. He returned to the stairwell. "Komorowski was last in line. He felt an incredible rush of wind. "He urged everyone to move faster. "And then the tower collapsed. ""Everything starts heaving," Jonas said. "Unbelievable noise. Everything flying around. Tremendous dust clouds. I'm thinking, "I can't believe this is how it ends for me.' " "Komorowski was hurled two flights and found himself in front of the others. "The men were spread out in the stairwell between the second and fourth floors. Four other rescue workers were trapped as well: two firefighters, a Port Authority police officer and a Fire Department chief, Rich Picciotta. They had cuts and bruises. They were caked with dust. "Butler opened his eyes and saw something "rise out of the dust like the blob coming out of the water in a horror movie." It was Harris. "All 11 of them were alive. "They assumed that just a part of the tower had collapsed. Butler thought it was a bomb that had exploded inside the stuffed lion. "Two of them pried open the second-floor door. All they could see was debris. They realized that if they had been going a little faster, they would have been below the second floor. If they had been slower, they would have been above the fifth floor, where the stairwell was severed. At the time of the collapse, as far as anyone knows, people higher and lower did not live. "The men put a harness on Harris and slid her down to the third-floor landing, where they congregated. Jonas ordered radios and flashlights turned off. He and the chief kept theirs on. They had to save the batteries for the next day, or the day after. "They sent out Maydays on the radios. No response. Wasn't anyone else alive? "Finally, after about 30 minutes, they got a response from a fire team. Where were they? "Jonas told them they were in the north tower's Stairway B. ""I got some strange responses," he said. "Like, "Where's the north tower?' I'm thinking, "We're in trouble, they don't know where the north tower is.' " "The men radioed that the crew should enter the front door of the north tower. They did not realize that there no longer was a front door. Or a north tower. "They contemplated escape routes. They saw an elevator shaft. They could lower themselves down it by rope, but if it was blocked at the bottom, there was no getting back up. "It was an option," Jonas said. "But it was an option for a day or two later." "Behind a door on the third floor was a fire sprinkler room. They would have water. "After several hours, the smoke and dust began to clear. Then something eerie occurred. A shaft of sunlight shone down on them. It dawned on them that 106 floors had been above them and now there was just sky. "They waited. Through holes in the side of the stairwell, they saw a firefighter about 70 yards away. A rope was tied round Picciotta, fitted with a hitch that would lock if he fell, and he inched his way to the firefighter. The others followed. Jonas stayed with Harris until rescuers from Ladder Company 43 got in. After Jonas left, they took Harris out in a rescue basket. "...Somewhere in the ruins was their flattened fire truck. "They had cornea abrasions and cuts; one man had a separated shoulder, another a sprained foot. "...They still can't be sure why what happened happened, only that it did. "It was a freak of timing," Jonas said. "We know the people below us didn't fare well. Above, to my knowledge, none got out. God gave us the courage and strength to save her, and unknowingly, we were saving ourselves." * Another eyewitness account of the shock-cocoon: <a href="http://asianconnections.com/community/david_lim/">asianconnections.com/comm...david_lim/</a> "I'm on the 44th floor of building number one, the first building that's hit. I turn around, and the second plane hits the second building. "All of a sudden a fireball comes towards my window. It blows out the window and knocks us on our butt. I'm with a couple of firemen and two other people. ... <a href="http://www.portland.com/news/attack/gallant010911.shtml">www.portland.com/news/att...0911.shtml</a> "...Clifford Gallant...89th floor...[tower 2]..."I was in the stairwell, on the 55th floor, when they said the building was secure," Gallant said. "When I was on the 54th floor, the building was hit. It shook a lot and a big crack formed down the wall . . . People were moving very quickly, and some were having a hard time. There was a lot of crying and nerves." <a href="http://www.cyberspaceorbit.com/wrdtwrsq.htm">www.cyberspaceorbit.com/wrdtwrsq.htm</a> -- Harrowing description of being in underground concourse when WTC South collapses: "Floor 15, then 10, and then 5. At 2, some light. Outside light. Close to home free. We finally exit the stairwell, into the lobby, street level, facing east, and facing a courtyard I don t really recognize. It must be in the middle of the World Trade Center complex. In the courtyard I recognize colors. Green from a small tree, gray from buildings. Blue sky, somewhere. Black, too. Black stuff on the green, and black stuff on the ground, small puffs of smoke. It must be debris from wreckage. What looks like a person's leg. I can't focus, my mind is wandering. I don't want to look. "Firefighters lead us to the escalators. They don't work, there's debris on them that we climb over. We go down slowly. A few people complain we are walking too slowly. What if you needed help? I ask. That keeps them quiet. "We get down to the lower level, to the glass doors separating One World Trade Center from the shops underground. The glass is all blasted out. Firefighters are showing us the way out, through the doors. An eerie situation underground. The sprinklers are on. People are worried about their clothes. Shops are empty, deserted. Some lights above are still on. Some aren't. Water collecting in puddles on the ground. Ceiling tiles here and there. A usually noisy, active underground is virtually silent. Firefighters are calling out to us to keep moving. We pass a sandwich shop, Banana Republic, Gap, entrance to Two World Trade Center. The firefighters lead us northeast, around a corner. We stop. J--- wants to rest. The firefighters urge us forward. J--- wants a swig of water. Just then, I hear a faint noise behind us, it sounds like water rumbling. No, it s people screaming, they are running, a mad fury, a tidal wave before the crescendo. What are they running from? Someone yells to start running. We start running. Part of the underground goes black. Like someone flicks off the switch. We take 3 or 4 steps; O--- slips and falls sideways to his left. People yell for us to get down. We dive to the ground. The blast is like a hurricane. I find a small corner; I ball up as fast as I can. I cover my head with both arms. I grimace, mouth open, teeth clinched. For the second time in an hour, I think I m about to die. Things pelting me: shards of glass, pieces of debris. I wait for something to sever me in two, and then the chaos subsides. Much later, I find out the blast was 2WTC coming down. "I open my eyes. I ve gone blind. Pitch black. Maybe I didn't open my eyes. I close them tight, then open them again. Nothingness. I take a breath. Metal, ash, concrete. I cough, and breathe again. More ash. With each breath I take, it s more painful. I call out for O--- and J---, she answers, he doesn t. I call out again. I fear something happened to him. I call out again. Finally, a cough, and a faint response. They re both alive. A few seconds pass. Somebody steps on me. What's that down there? A person, dude. Oh, sorry. I gather my wits, and try to get my bearings after being stepped on. "Then, a glimmer of light from behind. A fireman's floodlight. It s hard to see anything at all. The air is thick with dust and ash. I begin to see silhouettes of people, I see the man who stepped on me, that's cool man. I see things blown all around us. * <a href="http://www.sundayherald.com/18469">www.sundayherald.com/18469</a> "...Ciara Linnane, 37, an Irish foreign correspondent, was in tower one ...By the 30th floor it was incredibly slow. It took about half an hour to get to the 20th because so many people were piling from the other offices. You could see the walls of the corridors buckling.... * <a href="http://www.uniontrib.com/news/nation/terror/firstweek/20010913-9999_1n13shepard.html">www.uniontrib.com/news/na...epard.html</a> "Sixty-one floors..., Joy Shepard... Morgan Stanley ...Desperate to get out but weakened by fear and fatigue, Joy and the others cascaded down floor after floor, past discarded shoes and handbags, ignoring the heat and smoke as best they could...." * <a href="http://www.courttv.com/assault_on_america/firstperson_ctv.html">www.courttv.com/assault_o...n_ctv.html</a> South Tower: "Ten stories down, just after Winhoven passed the 20th floor, the building shuddered...."Then it was just chaos," said Winhoven. "It felt like an earthquake. At that point, everybody just ran for it." Co-workers who made it out of the building later told him they felt the impact just above them and that the wall had cracked under the strain, loosing steam into the stairwell....." * <a href="http://home.att.net/~beardog632/tradecenterletter.htm">home.att.net/~beardog632/...letter.htm</a> "...Brian St Clair....Kemper....36th floor...One World Trade Center Whump!! "The noise is loud and distant but ominous. The buildings are designed to sway in high winds but this felt like a giant fist of God had slammed us to the side. It almost feels like the building was going to slowly topple right then. "First thought. Bomb? Plane? "Whatever it was... the building did not just "sway" back into a normal position. The whump turns to a lingering rumble as the plane continues to blast through the building and the fireball explodes. A harmonic resonance seems to have started. It feels like an earthquake and looks like files and cabinets may begin toppling. "The unnatural and strong swaying and rumbling earthquake continues for what felt like more than a minute. Adrian is out of his office. I'm out of the file area. Everyone else in our area is suddenly gathered in front of the main work space. "Earthquakes do not occur in just one building. The rain of glass and debris from above roars outside of our own windows. At this point, I am convinced the building is going to fall and that we are going to die. I'm thinking "How many seconds will it take?" * <a href="http://www.salsationonline.com/jareau.htm">www.salsationonline.com/jareau.htm</a> "...Jareau Almeyda, was in his office on the 85th floor of Tower One...sudden swoosh, like that of a rocket and then a large explosion. The building shook like it was going to collapse. We ran to the center of the office away from the windows. At the same time, we glimpsed out the window. There was fire, debris, and smoke coming from the floors above us. We looked at each other in amazement. I’ll never forget the look on my friend Tim’s face. We ran back to grab our stuff and leave the building.... "Before even seeing the conditions in the hallway, we knew we were going to take the stairs. As we grabbed our stuff and a man came running into our office screaming for the exit. Standing at our entrance, he was hysterical. Later I found out he was in the bathroom when the plane hit. I told him to calm down, that I knew where the exit was and to follow us. Our office had double doors. The left one tightly secured, and the right one locked by a security magnet. Both doors were blown open by the impact. Interestingly, the left door was the one I noticed was open. I never saw that door open; it was always securely shut. "The nearest exit was to the left, right before our office. As I rushed towards the door, I noticed the hallway was dark and there was a very strong smell of smoke and burnt fuel. I ducked down and ran to the exit. I ran fast. I looked briefly over my shoulder down the long hall and all I could see was complete darkness. It was pitch black; no lights, no emergency lights, no sprinklers, only smoke. I quickly ran into the stairwell where conditions were completely different; there were air conditioning and light. We ran down six or seven flights as fast as we could. There was no one in the stairwell. It was amazing. The stairwell was empty, quiet, and calm. "At approximately the 80th floor, we came to a complete stoop. There were a ton of people. We screamed for them to move on. They politely told us there was a holdup, but the line was moving. We quickly became patient and joined them in their decent. We went at a slow pace until the 78th floor. At that floor, there was an embankment where we normally switched elevators. There was an express elevator that ran up the first 78 floors and then we switched to another which took us to the 85th floor. The elevator banks looked like they had exploded. The marble walls were shattered and the elevator doors were bulging out. We quickly moved across that floor to another stairwell. At that time, I came across a gentleman I had seen many times before. He was blind. He had a guide dog. Someone had him by the arm and was leading him to the same stairwell I was going to take. I have since read in the newspaper that he made it out ok. "The next 30 fights were all stop and go. At about the 40th floor, we came to a dead stop. There was a closed door and a fire on that floor. That was a very scary moment. Someone behind us yelled he had the key. When he got to the door, it was the wrong key. I thought to my self, "I don’t want to burn to death." We quickly looked for another way out. We moved back up one floor to another nearby stairwell. We made it down another 20 flights in the same manner, stop and go. All the while people were very orderly; they kept their calm. We exchanged thoughts.... <a href="http://www.chronicle.duke.edu/archive/images/2001/09/17/010917online.pdf">www.chronicle.duke.edu/ar...online.pdf</a> "...broken bones and deep lacerations sustained on the way down, ...Keat Crown,...working on the 106th floor of the South tower,... for AON Risk Management, an insurance company.... When he and his colleagues saw and heard the impact of American Airlines Flight 11 on the North tower, they immediately headed for the stairs. When they arrived on the 78th floor, an area where employees would normally switch from one elevator bank to another, they were told to return to their offices. Crown, however, continued to descend the stairs, but was still above the impact point of the second plane when it hit. * <a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Melungeon/message/350">groups.yahoo.com/group/Me...essage/350</a> "Area woman tells of escape from World Trade Center "By DONNA McGUIRE - The Kansas City Star "Date: 09/18/01 22:15 "...Shannon Beavers...business conference at the Trade Center...north tower's 55th floor...the building suddenly swayed. Beavers heard a boom overhead. She looked outside. Papers drifted downward. * <a href="http://www.roanoke.edu/responds-rta.htm">www.roanoke.edu/responds-rta.htm</a> "...Mattox...61st floor of the South tower... ""They came over a loudspeaker there and were giving us some general instructions," he said. "They said there was some sort of problem in Building 1. I can't remember exactly. No more than five or 10 seconds after they made that announcement, the second plane hit our building. ""It shook the building and metal beams actually started flying out of the wall. The ceiling started collapsing, and you could see the walls just crinkling. At that point, it was pandemonium. We were just breathless." (ON 54th Floor! Almost immediately, the stairway gets smoky.) * <a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/static/in_depth/americas/2001/day_of_terror/eyewitness/5.stm">news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english...ness/5.stm</a> "...Sue Frederick...north tower...77 flights...felt exactly like an earthquake. The only advanced sound was a large windful swoosh. At first we had no idea if it was a bomb or the building had been struck. ... "Our personnel immediately headed for the stairs as smoke began filtering quickly down. One wall outside our company had been pushed in so far it was impassable. The only stairway open got us only as far as the 77th floor when we came up against a door that was jammed shut. "In the WTC stairways down are not a straight shot. At various levels you have to cross hallways and through additional doorways to continue. We were invited into another company's offices on that floor while their people sought out an alternative route. We went into a conference room and turned on the TV.... "We learned our building had been struck by a plane but it was not announced at this point that it was a terrorist attack. As we watched TV the building shook again and what we thought was debris from our own building began striking the windows of the conference room so we immediately left. "We know now that this was building number two being hit by the second airplane. (NOTE: Debris from South's strike hit the NORTH TOWER!!!! *Important*) "Within 5-10 minutes, someone had found another way out and we began our trek down the stairs. We had to walk through a hallway at this point where the ceiling was being hosed down by an employee from the company we had taken refuge in. This is what I mean by the spirit of New Yorkers. It is because of their initiative that we got out. "No one from the building security or city rescue had been able to get to us at this point as the only way up or down was stairwells. All the elevators had been immediately knocked out by the flames and smoke shooting down the shafts from the explosion of the plane's fuel on impact.... "By the 7th floor, the stairwells were flooding with water from what we assumed were the firefighting efforts. We were feeling buoyant when we hit 3 and thought we're almost out of here. It had taken us a little over an hour to get this far.... "At that point, as we learned later, building 2 collapsed and hit our building. Once again it felt like a bomb had gone off as the building shook again and there was this tremendous whoosh of air that almost knocked us off our feet. "At that point the lights went out. There was so much debris that our way out was blocked. I remember thinking there is no way I walked down 77 flights to die 3 floors from safety. We climbed back up to 4 where a firefighter punched a hole in the wall to get us out. We made a human chain hanging on to the person in front and the person in back of us as we made our way out into the 4th floor rotunda in the dark.... "We walked through ankle deep dust and out through a doorway to the outside plaza in front of the US Customs building. As we were led to a stairwell to street level we climbed over girders and moved around office furniture and layers of office papers, twisted metal, broken glass and other debris...." * <a href="http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/talking_point/newsid_1544000/1544197.stm>">newsvote.bbc.co.uk/hi/eng...44197.stm></a> [this is unusual in its description of the stampede in the stairwells, but since a name is attached to the account....] "...Eric S. Levine, NYC, USA ... 2 World Trade Center on the 64th Floor...Morgan Stanley....heard an explosion. I ran to a window and looked out to see large amounts of debris (papers, metal, all kinds of things!) floating down towards the street. I called my boss and told him not to come in to the office and went out into the hallway. Someone called out to me, "Is there anyone down there!", "Yes", I said and he yelled at me to, "Get my ass into the stair well because we were evacuating!". "At that time people were still very calm and were evacuating in an orderly fashion. We had reached either the 51st or the 50th floor when we heard a huge explosion, which shook the building like crazy! I grabbed hold of the stair well to steady myself when a woman who had fallen from a flight up hit me in the back and sent me down a flight of stairs with her on my back. I then tried to stand up but the building was still shaking and the lights were flickering on and off. It was terrifying! "Then the building began to sink - that's the only way I can describe it. The floor began to lower under your feet and all I could think about was that it would crack open and I would fall hundreds of feet to my death! Until this moment no one knew what was going on, but no one was really scared yet. Everyone thought it was only taking place in 1 WTC, the other tower. Not in our tower. Once this happened it turned into pandemonium! "People began screaming and crying and praying out loud for God to help them. After what seemed like an eternity the building settled and the evacuation began in earnest. Except people were panicking and a stampede started and they were running each other down. Myself and the Philippine woman who had landed on me and a few other people waited for the initial surge to subside and then we began to move out again. "After this things began to speed up; somewhere along the route and between the 44th and 34th floors I lost sight of the little Philippine woman who had been hanging on to my arm for dear life. She was there one moment and gone the next. This really bothers me a lot. "Somewhere around the 25th floor we began to smell jet fuel and a lot of it. I have asthma and it became difficult to breathe but by the 15th fl, it became unbearable due to the amount of smoke that was now entering the stairwell. So I took off my shirt and wrapped it around my head to help me breathe and it worked, but my eyes were stinging real bad. "After what seemed like an eternity, but actually took about 40mins, we saw our first glimpse of the outside world. We were met by the FBI and NYPD detectives who were asking if anyone needed medical attention and then yelling at you to keep moving towards the escalators.... "After we got down to the Plaza level you were directed out to either Liberty Street (and probably death because that's where the building collapsed) or towards the E train on the other side of the platform. That's where I went....When I got to the E train the cops were telling you to run through the gate and get out the other end onto to street level...." * <a href="http://news6.thdo.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/static/in_depth/americas/2001/day_of_terror/eyewitness/7.stm">news6.thdo.bbc.co.uk/hi/e...ness/7.stm</a> "Eric Levine ... floor 64 in the south tower ... I heard an explosion. I remember that I thought that it was a bad explosion because I heard the back up generator kick in within seconds of the initial impact...." <a href="http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/talking_point/newsid_1537000/1537530.stm">newsvote.bbc.co.uk/hi/eng...537530.stm</a> "...Ricahrd [sic] Prescott Stearns, New York...I was in a windowless sealed server room lab at the core of the 8th floor, and in all the din of the machines all I felt were a couple judders. No fire alarms, no alarms of any kind (6 months ago there had been a fire on the escalators and no alarms then either). Since construction was going on and large bangs were common and I worked on. When I stepped out, the floor was empty (it was by now somewhere after 9am). I went to the lifts and they were not working, my heart started to race as I found the fire escape... it was filled with smoke and panicked people still trying to get out. Joining them we eventually made it into the atrium and onto the street outside...." <a href="http://www.broadwayjim.com/wtc.htm">www.broadwayjim.com/wtc.htm</a> "...On a news station, I heard a survivor speak of the sweat on the handrails in the stairwell left by the thousands of people running for their lives. ..." <a href="http://www.sraamerica.com/wtc.html">www.sraamerica.com/wtc.html</a> "...Rich Romanik ..I was in the men's room when the building got rocked, I opened the door which I was somewhat not to keen on doing. But, I said to myself, I will not die in the men's room, opened the door heavy smoke to the left and flames shooting out the service elevator, ran to my right to the stairs...down 45 flights through smoke and dust ...About the 9th floor the ceilings were cracking and the water pipes were busted pouring water on us...." * <a href="http://www.nyheartline.com/news.htm">www.nyheartline.com/news.htm</a> "...The ones in the buildings ran in a surprisingly orderly fashion down the stairwell. What you do not know is that when they became trapped and could for whatever reason, no longer move down, they could not get off at any floor and try another passage out. For security reasons no floor was accessible from the stairwells. So trapped people desperately clawed at the doors trying to get access and could not. Survivors tell about being trapped in these tombs, called stairwells, because a doorknob was removed. ...." * <a href="http://alumni.binghamton.edu/enews/sept/main.htm>">alumni.binghamton.edu/ene.../main.htm></a> "Posted by Steve Assael '70 (mailto:Ahsayel@aol.com) in New York City on September 12, 2001 at 6:23 PM: "...I was in the building when the first plane hit. The group I was with managed to get into the stairwells fairly quickly, but then from the lower levels a cry came out that smoke was coming up from below. So while those further down were begging people to go up, those above us were screaming to go down. * <a href="http://www.mrbellersneighborhood.com/sec9/shewason">www.mrbellersneighborhood...9/shewason</a> "She Was On The 92nd Floor South Tower -- ...making it down to the 52nd floor when, as she put it, "Some jackass started yelling up at us through a bullhorn saying: 'This tower has been secured. You are in America. Return to your offices!'" "People stopped briefly to process the message. It made no sense, but then what did? They'd just seen a commercial jet fly into the world trade center after almost crashing straight into their office. Jennifer and her colleague wondered briefly if they should heed the advice of the bullhorn wielding moron when the second plane struck their building. A gigantic blast of hot air shot up the stairwell with the vacuum created by the blast and the chaos returned in a hellish instant. They turned around and ran up the steps to the 55th floor, which allowed floor access, and ran across a hallway on that floor to a stairwell on the other side of the building where they managed to climb down to safety...." <a href="http://www.miraclebridge.com/wtcescape.html>">www.miraclebridge.com/wtcescape.html></a> "Yin Liang... Lehman Brother's equities e-commerce website, we are located on the 40th Floor in One World Trade Center... At around 8:46 AM, when I am still reading and writing emails in front of my computer, I heard a low-pitched "Bom" noise, it's not very loud, then the floors starts moving, it swings back and forth slowly, like floating in the air, then the swing gradually stopped. Then we see heavy smokes coming in from the 33-34th floors, we reached the front gate of One World Trade Center ( where every morning I would swipe my WTC Access Card to go inside the building) are damaged, the ceilings are cracked and one piece of ceiling is down on the side already, the gates are broken apart, We pass the gate, the revolving doors are not damaged in the front are not damaged,they consists of three doors, now two door are being switched to the side, so we do not have to push the revolving door to go through it). We are now outside the One World Trade Center tower, but we are still inside the huge WTC Basement Complex. On the way out from the stair, I also hear the walls are cracking, pieces of walls are falling on my far right side, around 40-50 feet away, there is an escalator right in front of us, during a "regular day", we normally use that escalator to go up to the street level concourse, then go through the revolving door to go outside. So naturally some people turned to take that escalator, but the police officers directed us to keep going forward, ( Later from the TV, I understand if we were using that escalator, we will be hit by the falling debris once we reached outside the tower). * <a href="http://www.huemer.com/">www.huemer.com/</a> "First plane hit our building at 8:45. We decided to evacuate from the 22nd floor after 15 minutes. The delay was because we did not know the extent of the damage; part of the 22nd floor was sheared away and the corridor was blocked by fallen debris. Four of us decided it was better to try to get out than stay and wait to be rescued (in hindsight a good decision). We had to crawl for ten to fifteen feet under debris to get to the fire stairs...." * WOW -0- Look at THIS: <a href="http://www.eweek.com/print_article/0,3668,a%253D16843,00.asp">www.eweek.com/print_artic...843,00.asp</a> "...Roy Bell ...78th floor of One World Trade Center ...."I ran into a building engineer, who told me there was only one safe exit out and that the building wasn't stable."..." * <a href="http://www.elevator-world.com/magazine/archive01/0112-005.html-ssi">www.elevator-world.com/ma...5.html-ssi</a> "Dave Bobbitt was in his office on the west side of the 35th floor of the South Tower of the WTC when the first plane hit... There had to have been an explosion in the North Tower, and Bobbitt knew that he and the other PA Operations staff would have to spring into action to help evacuate the towers. Bobbitt and Don Parente grabbed their two-way radios, flashlights and a digital camera, which had pretty much become their standard equipment in the WTC.... "...Bobbitt remarked. "When entering the North Tower, we saw the marble

by **isachar** » Sun Apr 02, 2006 11:20 pm

Starman, excellent post. Thanks for compiling and your comments.

by **FourthBase** » Mon Apr 03, 2006 12:40 am

Agreed, fantastic job. Incredible survival stories.

by **Iroquois** » Mon Apr 03, 2006 9:04 am

Dreams End wrote: <blockquote>Quote:<hr> And I don't know the definition of "strong ignition source". I take it you are implying it needs to be stronger than exploding jet fuel? <hr></blockquote> What I tried to establish is that in addition to a fairly concentrated mixtures of aluminum and oxidants at structural strategic locations in the buildings, a strong ignition source is needed at those sites to kick start the reactions. I'm not saying those conditions are impossible to achieve, just extremely improbable at a scale significant enough to collapse the buildings. As I mentioned earlier, I do agree that the impacts would have caused some % of the aluminum in the planes to combust. In fact, I said that the combustion of the aluminum may have occurred before the ignition of the jet fuel. Here's an excerpt from that post: <blockquote>Quote:<hr> The key thing here is getting that oxygen to the reaction in significant quantities. I can easily see how some % of the plane body underwent combustion as the plane struck the towers, causing some interesting pyrotechnic effects that some thought were missile launches and igniting the jet fuel. <hr></blockquote> Though, without the presense of oxidants, I don't believe those are considered thermite reactions. Also, that is not the part of Greening's hypothesis that I have the problem with. It is the spontaneously generated thermite reactions that he says occurred 40 minutes later in WTC2, and even longer in WTC1. I do not believe there were still jet fuel explosions that late into the events. But, even if there were, that would have satisfied only one of the conditions. StarmanSky, that is an excellent post. I remembered hearing about the sprinklers not working, but not about the flows of water at the lower levels. That would make sense that they would target those if encouraging fire was a goal. As a person who believes that jet liners were crashed into the buildings, I don't discount accounts of jet fuel fires and explosions. However, not all of them had to have been caused by the planes. I can imagine incorporating either jet fuel or a chemical that smells like it in the explosives set to coincide with the impacts to give the impression that they were caused by the jet fuel of the planes. The problem I have is that much of the damage sounds to severe, especially the damage to the basements, to have been caused by fuel air explosions which are generally have very low PSI, in the single digits while structural concrete has compression strengths in the thousands of PSI. As for the report of the drop in the building. I don't have a clue. I would expect there to be a seismic reading if one of those towers were to really drop, however. I don't recall there being one, but I'll have to double check later.

by **darkbeforedawn** » Mon Apr 03, 2006 11:23 am

This whole question is moronic. Aluminum has been extensively used in buildings that suffered MUCH hotter fires than those in the two towers. There are no records of it in the past suddenly igniting gigantic steel girders and causing nuclear blast strength explosions. What an absurd waste of time....

by **StarmanSkye** » Mon Apr 03, 2006 5:12 pm

Thanks for the Kudus guys. I encourage you to check-out the collection of evacuee testimony excerpts compiled by Mike Barkley as part of his project to detail faults with the emergency-exit and stairway system design in the towers, at: <a href="http://www.mjbarkl.com/locked.htm">www.mjbarkl.com/locked.htm</a> In my readings, I've come to appreciate what a massive technological marvel these towers were, as well as their sociological complexity -- and what they represented as monuments to creatively daring human endeavor, vulnerable as all such gigantic projects are to the venality of human foibles -- leading to shortcut compromises and cover-up of numerous failures and flaws that condemned thousands to death in a tragedy that at the very least should have been averted. Perhaps not the biggest cover-up but noteable just the same, is that the same apparant design flaws that contributed to the tower's collapse are present in hundreds of other high-rises around the world. I now regret I didn't visit the towers and see them up-close for myself -- I see now how closely they embody both the greatest strengths and weaknesses of what America has become, perhaps foreshadowing in a smaller way what will happen to America, what IS happening to America today -- sabotaged by unspeakably evil, corrupt forces, a relatively small group of powerful criminals who have corrupted, defiled and ruined everything and everyone they touch. The WTC towers were America's version of the Pyramids. Iroquis: Thanks for the feedback. The stuff Isachar posted on reactant combustion processes along with your discussion of the airframe aluminum contributing to intense thermate-type combustion generating sufficient heat to cause structural failure initiating collapse sequence has added to my thoughts about what might have occurred consistent with what the survivor accounts record -- I'm especially curious about the lower-level fires and whether they indicate something suspicious, or to the extent they contributed to what was happening at and above the strike zones. "The problem I have is that much of the damage sounds to severe, especially the damage to the basements, to have been caused by fuel air explosions which are generally have very low PSI, in the single digits while structural concrete has compression strengths in the thousands of PSI." I agree -- the lobby and basement-complex concourse damage is perplexing -- apparently the escalators between the mezzanine and underground concourse were knocked-out as reported by evacuee accounts -- connected to the apparant fireball eruptions from several elevators that caused the lobby damage in North? I read somewhere a CD theory that proposed massive thermite/thermate-type exlposives were rigged to detonate basement foundation supports on aircraft impact, presumably to weaken them thus setting-up eventual collapse. I've been trying to proceed in my thinking with not making any assumptions supporting CD, but just seeing where the evidence goes -- ie., eliminate the impossible and what's left is the truth. I'd guess a LOT of hidden byt deep structural damage happened when the towers were first struck, as they oscillated back-and-forth for up to 30 seconds or so -- this may be when the water-main standpipe burst in the lower level of WTC 1 -- water under pressure in a pipe while adding strength contributes to brittleness, and I can see that a lack of sufficient flexibility would have (might have) caused a rupture of this vital fire-fighting system. That's just ONE failure that added to the catastrophe that seems to have been minimized or otherwise buried, by 'blaming' the terrorists for an action that couldn't POSSIBLY have happened without active support of members of the US military, intelligence, civil services and political establishment. Another was failure of intercoms and fire-alarms in One -- there was no public-service information to facilitate and coordinate emergency response and evacuation. No alarms and lack of coordinated information via intercom in Two. Another BIG flaw was not providing a separate, fire-and-disaster-insulated emergency elevator for fire and emergency service, operating on its own independant electric power and mechanical system. Reading about those hundreds of firemen clamboring to their certain death lugging almost a hundred pounds of gear up a thousand feet of stairs -- Christ, that's heartbreaking. If they could have gotton to the fires and had water they SHOULD have been able to contain and control the fires, perhaps preventing their collapse. And the City specifically prohibiting helicopter rescues -- another major failure of imagination and poor planning for contingencies. Looking back, one has to consider if fire-suppressant water-drops might have had a HUGE benefit in cooling the flames by saturating the upper building -- but this wasn't even attempted. Hell, it wasn't even discussed after-the-fact, that is EVEN of it was discussed and rejected at the time. (Granted, time was short and whether water-drops was practical in such a short time is another issue). Well, okay, here's some 'what-ifs': COULD the towers have been prepared with metallic-reactants like aluminum, titanium and magnesium powders used to create targetted hot-spot fires that melted the building's core columns at strategic locations? Consider -- just cutting half of the core columns at the 20, 40, 60 and 80 floor levels would have caused catastrophic failure -- the key being to totally disguise CD. What if the planes' luggage storage were filled with highly-reactant metallic powders? Or 'packages' of combustable reactants were dispersed in proximity to the core columns in utility and access spaces, perhaps set with wireless detonators? You wouldn't have explosive cutting-charges per-se, but enormously hot fires burning for 30-minutes to an hour, dropping through floors and melting floor-joist connections. But that's another weak-point -- the unique viscoelastic dampers, which were rubber derivative fasteners used to provide a flexible joint attaching the floor joists to the perimeter plates -- it's entirely feasable that as the floor joists heated the rubber vicoelastic dampers failed, allowing huge sections of floor to fall onto the floor below and weakening perimeter and core integrity -- This is a variation proposed by the engineer I mentioned, whose thjeory I was going to post but overlooked, so I've included it below. Definitely check out his diagrams. Food for thought, ennyway. Starman ****** Posted by Jay Zimmerman on January 05, 2002 at 20:13:09: I've been following this forum lately and discussions of the WTC because reading about the WTC, looking at pictures, drawing and creating, seem to be the best way I can deal with the trauma. I hope my comments can help in the discussions of how the towers fell. From my perspective, the films do not really show the way the south tower collapsed. I cannot speak about the north tower as the clouds of smoke and ash blocked my view of it when it fell. I was in our (former) apartment overlooking Trinity church, about 2 blocks diagonally southeast of the towers. I had been standing on our little Juliet balcony videotaping the fire for about 20 minutes, but when the tower fell I was inside (thank God!) However my view was horribly perfect. There were NO visible signs of leaning prior to collapse. There were NO visible signs of failure until collapse. A few bits of metal had been falling during the fire, but all came from the damaged area. When the south tower collapsed, a moment that will be forever etched in my soul, the entire top portion above the fire stayed intact. I remember because it seemed so surreal. The top simply went down, shearing glass and metal off of the lower floors as it went. It went straight down and disappeared--still intact--behind the other buildings (all of which are tall so the tower still had a ways to go.) ...................... I did not see the exterior columns glowing. Presumably all the interior columns are heated to a perfectly uniform temperature? Ngon <a href="http://www.designcommunity.com/discussion/11949.html">www.designcommunity.com/d...11949.html</a> interesting air pressure hypothesis from Ngon Nguyen -- Some of the implications: This may be a serious design flaw, suggesting criminal negligence and/or an alternative collision that fits the facts better -- it might even be a method to provoke CD without leaving a trail. For an alternative engineering view to the HERA report, see postings of and following that of Ngon Nguyen at <a href="http://www.DesignCommunity.com/discussion/7457.html">www.DesignCommunity.com/d.../7457.html</a> and related postings including diagrams at <a href="http://www.DesignCommunity.com/discussion/7551.html">www.DesignCommunity.com/d.../7551.html</a> for a discussion on possible failures of viscoelastic dampers as being crucial components in the tower collapses. See also the SurePlate discussions following <a href="http://www.designcommunity.com/discussion/12012.html">www.designcommunity.com/d...12012.html</a> and an interesting air pressure hypothesis from Ngon Nguyen at and following <a href="http://www.designcommunity.com/discussion/11729.html">www.designcommunity.com/d...11729.html</a> --quote-- On Sept 28, 2001, I posted an article about the WTC progressive collapse. I was able to point out the weak connections between the floor trusses and the columns within the Towers. Even though, Vortex Shedding is an important argument (As Mr. Reiss, a Port Authority official admitted in The New York Times on Dec 13, 2001 about the swaying of the buildings in the wind and the impact that elevator cables have against the beams especially during the months of March and April), it fails to explain two things: · The collapse started from the very top and worked its way down. (NOTE: I don't agree with this -- I haven't seen video info or witness statements that confirms it -- in both towers, the sections above the impact zines acted like separate blocks for the first seconds before disintegrating; --S) · The floor slabs were pulverized. There are many theories out there about melting and so on, but they all fail to explain why the top floors failed first even though they were not the hottest floors in the Towers. As I was doing my Christmas shopping, I came across a toy called a RADIOMETER, which was originally invented by Sir William Crookes in the mid-nineteenth century. This toy demonstrates the ability to convert light energy into mechanical energy, which in turn rotates the vanes in a near vacuum environment (95 % vacuum with very few air molecules). Intrigued by this during my vacation, I went through my daughter's high school Chemistry textbook, keeping in mind that I still had unanswered emails to address concerning the WTC. Here is my new theory: Recall the Gas Laws: PV = n RT where (Pressure) x (Volume) = (number of moles of gases) x (R, a constant) x (Temperature in Kelvins) Kelvin = Celsius degree + 273.15 degrees Celsius Standard air pressure @ 0 degrees Celsius and sea level = 1 atm = 14.7 psf Standard air pressure @ 0 degrees Celsius and @ 1000 ft level = 0.95 atm Assume that the ambient temperature on September 11th, 2001 was 0 degrees Celsius. If the Towers were heated to 275 degree Celsius by the combustion of the jet fuel while everything else remained constant, we would have a differential pressure (P) between inside and outside of the Towers of about 15 psf. While the Towers were heated, the fires also turned the furniture, appliances, building materials, etc. into many combustion gases. After a while, these gases diffused through the elevator shaft and filled all the top floors. Eventually, the number of moles of gases (n) would increase to, say, 4 times of the original air molecules in these top floors. In this scenario, the differential pressure between the inside and outside of the Towers would be 60 psf (4 x 15 psf). From observations of the collapse of the Towers, we can assume that the window glass did not fail first (it can withstand a pressure of 60 psf). Therefore, the volume (V) remains constant. The differential pressure between the floors may be considered as very little or negligible. In addition, there is no rotation demand at the truss connection to the column. However, at the top floor, there is uplift to the roof deck and the roof truss of approximately 50 psf. (after subtracting the dead weight of the lightweight insulation concrete and steel deck which is 10 psf) Assume the deck tie down is designed for the uplift but there is problem with the roof truss: at this temperature, the VE dampers (viscoelastic dampers) are disconnected (see previous posting) i.e. the truss bottom chord is not braced. There are two possible failure modes: 1. At the connection of the truss to the column due to rotation demand (see previous posting). 2. The buckling of the bottom chord without horizontal bracing due to compression. Once the roof is gone, the top floor will now be under the uplift of the differential pressure of 30 psf. (After subtracting the dead weight of structural lightweight concrete on steel deck of the floor of 30 psf. Assume the roof dead weight is ignored.) Because the deck tie down is not designed for this uplift and the structural concrete is not designed for the loading in the upward direction, the concrete will blow up in a sudden failure. The same will happen to the next floor and so on.. There are lessons to be learned from this incident: 1. Every tall building should have an adequate vent on top of their elevator shafts to be opened at certain temperatures. 2. Do not use rubber derivatives as a primary supporting system in a building because it is impossible to fireproof this material. I am worried about the LA City Hall or similar buildings with base isolation design. On the other hand, it is OK for a bridge to be supported on an Elastomeric Bearing because it is in an open space. * Additional info, comments on this theory -- see for links for sketchs describing the author's idea. (further discussion links at url) <a href="http://www.designcommunity.com/discussion/11771.html">www.designcommunity.com/d...11771.html</a> <a href="http://www.designcommunity.com/discussion/11781.html">www.designcommunity.com/d...11781.html</a> <a href="http://www.designcommunity.com/discussion/11786.html">www.designcommunity.com/d...11786.html</a> (11771 diagram) <img src="http://www.designcommunity.com/scrapbook/images/1009.jpg" style="border:0;"/>

by **Iroquois** » Mon Apr 03, 2006 6:44 pm

StarmanSkye, There's lots of interesting stuff to absorb there. So, these are just limited responses to what I wanted to comment on right away. Most I'll have to look into a bit more. Just a quick clarification on my point about combustion of aluminum at the moment of the plane impact. I didn't want to give the impression that it initiated collapse, only that was an opportunity for aluminum combustion but not of a type that is really considered a thermite reaction. Though I didn't really mention my thoughts on the implication of that added energy release. What I would expect is that process encouraged ignition of the fuel in the wings, meaning there would be less left over after the impact, and increased the ability for the plane bodies to cut through the perimeter columns of the structure, what some have noted is otherwise not the intuitive result of a lightweight aluminum structure crashing into a heavy steel one. As for the lateral load of the plane impacts weakening the structure overall, I can't say I'd be easily convinced. Those buildings were designed to survive hurricane winds against several acres of surface area, a tremendous amount of lateral force, while fully loaded with people, furniture, etc. The occupancy of those buildings was quite low in people if not office furnishings as well if the low tenant rates are any indication, on the morning of 9/11/2001. Also, there was very little wind. Hard numbers would help here, and I know I've looked at some estimates before, but intuitively I don't see the force of the impacts as being a major factor in the ensuing collapses. In the "what if" area, I'm in more agreement with the pre-set explosives idea. Anything distributed by the planes would be much too random and therefore need way too much overkill to be effective to have not been obvious. My impression from the video evidence is that the central columns were segmented first by thermite or other similar cutter charges. This would have allowed the antenna to fall over. Next, thermobaric charges or similar concussive force charges were detonated in a pattern radiating out from the points of impact blowing the remaining structure apart, much of it falling over the outside perimeter.

by **isachar** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 10:41 am

Starman, I think you're on the right track, particularly with your observation that the collapse was aided by energetic forces - either pre-planted in the basements/lower floors and/or contained within the baggage area of the two flights. I don't believe there would have been sufficient certainity of the points of impact to place strategic charges at those points, so I would tend to favor your theory of a destructive payload onboard the flights. This is what another researcher has concluded who has dilligently applied similar types of analytic processes you are engaged in with respect to the Pentagon strike. He has concluded the aircraft that flew into the Pentagon was likely carrying a depleted uranium or broach type bomb load. see: <a href="http://perso.wanadoo.fr/jpdesm/pentagon/pages-en/concluen.html">perso.wanadoo.fr/jpdesm/p...cluen.html</a> This is a very interesting site in and of itself, once you learn how to navigate it and get past the author's colloquial English (it's also in French which is the author's first language). The "sinking" of the building and the extensive explosive type damage in the basement levels would certainly require an explanation as to how such explosive forces originated and preceeded the collapses. Also, with respect to the second collapse, watch the antennae on top. It fell down almost perfectly straight and perfectly plumb. This, to me, suggests the core of this building collapsed/failed first in a precisely uniform manner. This could have been caused by the basement damage. You've accomplished more with this discussion than the mis-begotten NIST investigation did. BTW, it was Iroquois who posted the excellent material on aluminum reactions. Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=isachar>isachar</A> at: 4/4/06 8:49 am

Loose Change - a must see

Re: Explosions in the basement/lobby

Re: Explosions in the basement/lobby

Re: Explosions in the basement/lobby

Re: Aluminum/water reaction

Re: Aluminum/water reaction

Re: Explosions in the basement/lobby

Re: Explosions in the basement/lobby

Re: Explosions in the basement/lobby

Re: Explosions in the basement/lobby

Aluminum morphs into powerful explosive

Re: Explosions in the basement/lobby

Re: Explosions in the basement/lobby

Re: Explosions in the basement/lobby

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