Some more 9/11 truth

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Re: ha ha ha

Postby NewKid » Mon Aug 21, 2006 6:48 am

More mainstream articles on conspiracy theories touting the 'Ockham's razor' and 'conspiracy theorists get all warm and fuzzy inside dreaming up false flag terror networks' defense. <br><br><!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/newsnight/2006/08/on_internet_conspiracy_theories.html" target="top">www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/newsnight/2006/08/on_internet_conspiracy_theories.html</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--><br><br><!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.911blogger.com/v2/files/Translated.pdf" target="top">www.911blogger.com/v2/files/Translated.pdf</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--><br><br>Assume for a moment that slogans, public relations memes, and remarkably similar talking points are an adequate proxy for evidentiary argument, what exactly does Ockham's razor actually say about something like 9-11? For that matter, what does it say about Gladio? Or the Nine, Steven Greer and the Disclosure Project, Bert Stubblebine, Tom Bearden, John Alexander, or Michael Aquino? I understand buzz words and phrases can on occasion serve as a short hand for a thesis or an idea, but what work is the phrase intended to do here for those who repeatedly throw it out? <p></p><i></i>
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Postby AnnaLivia » Mon Aug 21, 2006 10:20 am

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Re: A paper with no scientific evidence

Postby xsic bastardx » Mon Aug 21, 2006 10:37 am

<br><br> I would say that too many people on here are too quick to jump on the Anti-Semite train, but then again, in this day in age you question the actions of Israel on any level and you get a cross eye.<br><br><br> Not questioning Israel's actions on it's behaviour past, present and future is like not bothering to ask W why he sat in a school room for 7 plus minutes while the country was under attack.....<br><br> You get the same answer<br><br><br> They both knew.<br><br> <br> <br><br><br> <br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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...

Postby robertdreed » Mon Aug 21, 2006 1:25 pm

I need to once again repeat a point related to a glitch in language, that trips people up all the time. <br><br>What's under a name?<br><br>If anyone had foreknowledge, it wasn't "Israel." Not Israel the nation, at any rate. <br><br><br>The nation named "Israel", an idealized construct of nation-state politics just like all the other nations out there, is not a conscious entity with the capability of knowledge. <br><br><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>Individuals within Israel, or within the Israeli government</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END-->, may have had foreknowledge. <br><br>Not as obvious as it might appear at first glance. And not an insignificant point, I think... <p></p><i></i>
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9-11 Myths

Postby robertdreed » Mon Aug 21, 2006 1:29 pm

Thanks for the <!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.911myths.com/index.html">www.911myths.com/index.html</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--> website, Qutb. <br><br>I don't have any interest in closing the debate on these matters prematurely. However, if the positions of the contributors to that website are to be contested in order for the debate to continue, it will need to be done by those who share a similar level of qualifications and expertise as the writers- not by the Peanut Gallery. <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=robertdreed>robertdreed</A> at: 8/21/06 11:29 am<br></i>
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Re: ...

Postby xsic bastardx » Mon Aug 21, 2006 1:31 pm

<br> I'll give that to you...however.....put any other countries name in there and does that statement even matter..... <p></p><i></i>
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Re: ...

Postby FourthBase » Mon Aug 21, 2006 1:34 pm

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>The nation named "Israel", an idealized construct of nation-state politics just like all the other nations out there, is not a conscious entity with the capability of knowledge. <br><br>Individuals within Israel, or within the Israeli government, may have had foreknowledge. <br><br>Not as obvious as it might appear at first glance. And not an insignificant point, I think...<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--> <br><br>That's a crucial point. I would go further and state that "<!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>right-wing elements</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> within Israel's government may have had foreknowledge". <p></p><i></i>
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Postby AnnaLivia » Mon Aug 21, 2006 2:27 pm

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Re: ...

Postby FourthBase » Mon Aug 21, 2006 2:35 pm

Even better. Right-wing elements of various nationalities had foreknowledge. That's the nature of the beast. But there <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>is</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> a particularly strong strain of right-wing spooky militarism in America, and Israel, and Britain, and... <p></p><i></i>
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Postby AnnaLivia » Mon Aug 21, 2006 2:46 pm

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Re: ...

Postby FourthBase » Mon Aug 21, 2006 2:54 pm

By "spooky", I meant intelligence-agency-related. <p></p><i></i>
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Postby AnnaLivia » Mon Aug 21, 2006 3:11 pm

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A paper with no scientific evidence

Postby Qutb » Mon Aug 21, 2006 3:18 pm

Thank you for your thoughtful post, NewKid.<br><br>A couple of points: <br><br>"Instead, the task of debunking govt based conspiracy theories and restoring confidence in the official one has fallen to primarily anonymous/quasi-anonymous non-entities, or other people nobody seems to really know anything about (a phenomenon we're very familiar with in traditional conspiracy website research)."<br><br>But who else would you expect to do it? All this conspiracy "research" passes under the radar of "mainstream" or "real" science, history, political science, etc. These are separate worlds, with hardly any points of contact at all. When academia now and then acknowledges the existence of conspiracy theories, it's always as a subject of study, not as real contributions to a debate. How many of Steven Jones' colleagues do you think bother to read his conspiracy-oriented papers? Let alone peer review them?<br><br>To the vast majority of academics, taking part in debates with conspiratologists is seen as futile and pointless. That these theories have no valuable insight to offer is simply taken for granted, and in addition the archetype of a conspiratologist is someone who will believe what he wants to in spite of what evidence and logic would dictate, and who is thus impervious to reasoned discourse.<br><br>To, say, a structural engineer, spending time debunking controlled demolition theories is not going to do anything to advance his career, pay his bills, or win him prestige in his academic field. Alternative thoeries about 9/11 may be getting more media attention lately, but they're always presented as curiosities, and that's how they're seen by the academic world too.<br><br>You often hear astronomers complain about the persistent beliefs in astrology even among fairly educated people, but you rarely see them engage the astrologers in debate. <br><br>"You will never certifiably "prove" how the towers came down. Instead it, like all of 9-11, has become and will remain a political question. To that extent, belief and perception (or more specifically whether people act on that belief or perception) become reality, oftentimes to the dismay of serious researchers on all sides of the issue."<br><br>That is certainly true, and given the latest poll which indicated one full third of the American people believe 9/11 was an inside job, this belief - in my opinion, false - may even become the bane of the Republican party in the next presidential election. I haven't seen a demographic analysis, but I'm pretty sure many of those who responded "yes" to that question voted Bush/Cheney in 2000 and even 2004.<br><br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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And

Postby Qutb » Mon Aug 21, 2006 3:30 pm

another thing: who wants their inbox spammed by a couple dozen raving conspiratologists every day, telling you how you're a shill for the Mossad etc... that's the inevitable fate of anyone who dares to confront these theories in public and with full name, unfortunately... <p></p><i></i>
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Resusitating a dead horse. Controlled Demo is proven.

Postby 911 Eye Witness » Mon Aug 21, 2006 5:29 pm

Qtub's back at it again. What is this guys motivation?<br><br>Controlled demolition is verifiable by any human possessing eyes and willing to trust their own senses over the word of authority figures. Take a look at WTC7, specifically the shed on the roof of the building. The shed collapses BEFORE the roof of the building does. It takes seriously convoluted logic to explain that any other way than explosives.<br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.911research.com/wtc/evidence/videos/docs/wtc_7_cbs.mpg">www.911research.com/wtc/e..._7_cbs.mpg</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br>On an amusing note Dr. Frank Greening has agreed to participate in the National 911 Debate.<br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.teamliberty.net/id289.html">www.teamliberty.net/id289.html</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br>I expect he'll continue with the "qualified people tell us" approach. <br>I prefer to ask people to think for themselves.<br><br>Shame on Qtub for saying "They were there, you weren't."<br>I haven't said that to him.<br> <p></p><i></i>
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