Testimonies at Moussaoui trial

by **Hugh Manatee Wins** » Tue Apr 18, 2006 4:42 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>miniscule fragments of flight 93. if that plane really did crash, it looks like it was blown out of the sky<hr></blockquote> A remote-controlled camera helicopter was brought in to search a wide area for the black box. Why if the plane cratered? Seems a backhoe would be all that was needed...unless the plane was blown out of the sky and spread over a huge area as is evidenced below. <a href="http://www.thepittsburghchannel.com/news/957912/detail.html">www.thepittsburghchannel....etail.html</a> <blockquote>Quote:<hr>Alleged Partial Flight 93 Cockpit Transcript Obtained Fleischer: Flight Was Aimed At White House POSTED: 2:59 p.m. EDT September 12, 2001 UPDATED: 8:51 a.m. EDT October 11, 2001 ... An FBI agent said Wednesday that finding Flight 93's black box was the key to investigating its hijacking and fatal crash -- a plan which was apparently related to terrorist attacks on the World Trade Center and Pentagon. .... The plane departed from Newark and was headed to San Francisco, but diverted from its flight pattern and crashed nose-first in a large field about 60 miles outside Pittsburgh. .... "The importance of finding the black box cannot be overstated," said Corvington, who told reporters that the device would have recorded any conversations and struggles on the plane. Corvington said an effective mapping job was necessary so evidence could be recovered from the rural area, a process which he said would take three to five weeks. Toward that end, he said National Transportation Safety Board representatives planned a Wednesday afternoon fly-over to help "assess the scope" of the scene. CMU Chopper <img src="<a href="http://images.ibsys.com/2001/0912/958251_200X150.jpg"">images.ibsys.com/2001/091...0X150.jpg"</a> style="border:0;"/> Carnegie Mellon University will be using a robotic helicopter to help in the investigation. The helicopter will be flown over the area to create 3-D color images of the terrain. It is hoped that the images could help locate the black box. Anywhere from 130 to 150 troopers would guard the area at one time, according to Lt. Col. Robert Hickes. Pop-upClick here for a slideshow of the crash scene, including pictures of debris from the site. <hr></blockquote> Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=hughmanateewins>Hugh Manatee Wins</A> at: 4/18/06 2:44 pm

by **Hugh Manatee Wins** » Tue Apr 18, 2006 5:28 pm

And this was the last job for the Pittsburgh FBI's evidence collection team leader, Bob Craig, who was also at Oklahoma City and Kosovo. <a href="http://www.post-gazette.com/headlines/20020217bobcraig2.asp">www.post-gazette.com/head...craig2.asp</a> <blockquote>Quote:<hr>Flight 93 probe caps FBI career Sunday, February 17, 2002 By Torsten Ove, Post-Gazette Staff Writer There are two kinds of people in the world, says Bob Craig. One sees catastrophe and runs the other way, an entirely natural response. The other is drawn to the scene like a moth to a candle. Craig is the moth. .... Among the snippets of in-the-field wisdom he calls "Craig's rules of life," for example, is his advice to young agents not to wear those jackets with "FBI" emblazoned on the back so as not to antagonize anyone. "I don't want to see that stuff at a scene," he said. "It's better if we just show up, do what we do and get out of town." After 30 years in the FBI, it was fitting that he capped his career coordinating the recovery effort of Flight 93. <hr></blockquote>

by **Byrne** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 1:19 pm

<img src="http://www.rcfp.org/moussaoui/jpg/size600/FO08301-1.jpg" style="border:0;"/> Fascinating indeed - have a look....... <a href="http://www.rcfp.org/moussaoui/index.php" target="top">www.rcfp.org/moussaoui/index.php</a>

by **Hugh Manatee Wins** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 5:31 pm

Guess the Chinese were in on 9/11, too, hunh? That could be the subliminal message in having 'China' so prominently displayed on that box cutter. Could just be a coincidence since most items one person can carry are now made in China. But hostility to China is sown into cultural artifacts all over the place as is hostility to France. Having recently reread about the CIA whistleblower team that was killed on PanAm 103, I looked at the evidence photos for the Moussaoi trial and found this name and subsequent article about "the only FBI agent reported killed on 9/11" who was also a former Marine <a href="http://www.usmc.mil/marinelink/mcn2000.nsf/lookupstoryref/20041209569">www.usmc.mil/marinelink/m...0041209569</a> and bomb expert. (Guess former bin Laden hunter John O'Neil just doesn't count as FBI since he retired as a frustrated whistlblower before he died at the WTC.) Seems FBI Special Agent in Newark Leonard Hatton worked on the 1993 WTC bombing and 1998 US embassy bombings in Africa according to this article. I suspect he also worked on the Oklahoma City bombing but that isn't said in this article.Hmm... <a href="http://breakingnews.morris.com/terrorism/stories/101001/fbideath.shtml">breakingnews.morris.com/t...eath.shtml</a> <blockquote>Quote:<hr>FBI Agent's Death Creates Quandary FBI agent Leonard Hatton's latest court case would have involved a man accused of driving the getaway car in a bank heist. But last month, Hatton became the only FBI agent to die in the World Trade Center and Pentagon attacks _ a loss that cast doubt on whether the robbery case could go forward. Defense attorney Heidi Poreda asked a federal magistrate to dismiss charges against her client, claiming his right to a speedy trial had been violated because the government missed a deadline, already extended once, to seek an indictment. After scolding prosecutors for moving too slowly on the case, U.S. Magistrate Cheryl Pollack said she may decide on the request Wednesday. The situation illustrated the Trade Center tragedy's impact on normally routine criminal cases. Authorities said cases have been delayed or thrown into disarray because FBI agents have been consumed with fighting terrorism or, in Hatton's case, victimized by it. "Since Sept. 11, the world has changed," prosecutor Michael Beys said in arguing for more time. "The case agent is dead." In federal court in Brooklyn, prosecutors have sought delays, sometimes of several weeks, in about a dozen cases in the past month. In Manhattan, a chief judge granted an automatic 30-day extension for speedy-trial deadlines in all cases. Before the attack, Hatton had signed an affidavit accusing Andrew Watroba of taking part in a Queens robbery last year in which a teller was handed a note reading, "Give me cash now. ... I have a bomb." The bandit fled with $4,400 in a stolen car allegedly driven by Watroba, who has pleaded innocent. Hatton, 45, estimated in the affidavit that he had investigated 800 bank robbery cases in his 15-year FBI career. Colleagues say he also was a bomb expert and evidence-recovery expert who helped gather evidence in the terrorist bombings of the Trade Center in 1993 and of U.S. embassies in Africa in 1998. A longtime volunteer firefighter, he was on his way to work in lower Manhattan on Sept. 11 when he learned of the suicide hijackings. The FBI believes he died trying to help people escape the burning towers. The man FBI Director Robert Mueller eulogized as a "true American hero" had been expected to coordinate evidence and witnesses in the case against Watroba. Prosecutors want to recruit another agent to fill in when they ask a grand jury to indict Watroba. Pollack noted that the government had already won one 30-day extension on the indictment deadline, which expired Tuesday. The magistrate criticized prosecutors for waiting until "the 11th hour" to ask her to waive the deadline again. "Obviously, it's a tragedy the case agent is not with us," the magistrate said. "But I get the sense there was no diligence here." Prosecutor Kelly Moore countered that the tragedy should outweigh legal technicalities. Watroba "is charged with a serious crime," she said. "We don't want to see him walk out the door." <hr></blockquote> But wait, there's also Hatton's testimony in US vs Usama bin Laden with a leading role by Patrick Fitzgerald in the summer of 2001. <a href="http://cryptome.sabotage.org/usa-v-ubl-67.htm">cryptome.sabotage.org/usa-v-ubl-67.htm</a> FBI Special Agent Leonard Hatton was involved in collecting evidence at a prison system crime scene where Khalfan Khamis Mohamed was accused of stabbing a prison guard. Just like Moussaoi, there was a huge effort to get the death penalty and eliminate human evidence of CIA-backed terrorists. <a href="http://archives.cnn.com/2001/LAW/06/20/embassy.bombingtrial/index.html">archives.cnn.com/2001/LAW...index.html</a> <blockquote>Quote:<hr>U.S. tries to link bomber to jailhouse stabbing June 20, 2001 NEW YORK (CNN) -- Government prosecutors tried Wednesday to show jurors that convicted embassy bomber Khalfan Khamis Mohamed still poses a threat to society because he participated in a jailhouse stabbing that left a guard incapacitated. The same jury that convicted Mohamed in the August 7, 1998, bombing in Dar es Salaam, Tanzania, and the murders of the 11 people killed is now hearing testimony to decide his sentence -- either the death penalty or life in prison without the possibility of parole. The fact Mohamed might pose a danger, even behind bars, is one characteristic the government is attempting to prove to justify a death sentence. The stabbing incident took place November 1, 2000, in the high-security wing of Manhattan's federal jail, Metropolitan Correctional Center, where Mohamed and his embassy bombings codefendants are incarcerated. Mohamed's cellmate for five days before the attack was the alleged perpetrator of the stabbing, inmate Mamdouh Mahmud Salim, an alleged high-ranking associate of Osama bin Laden. Bin Laden is the Saudi exile prosecutors say directs the worldwide conspiracy to kill Americans that included the coordinated embassy bombings in Tanzania and Kenya. Those bombings killed a total of 224 people, including 12 Americans who worked in Nairobi. Salim allegedly stabbed corrections officer Louis Pepe with a comb purchased in the jail commissary and sharpened into a weapon. Although no one else actually saw the stabbing, witnesses concurred it happened in a hallway as Pepe led Salim without handcuffs -- a deviation from normal procedure -- from a meeting with his attorneys back to his cell. <hr></blockquote> A 24 video taping of the cells didn't work. Funny how that keeps happening. Hatton testified he had collected papers from the cell.and there are defense attorney efforts to expose the US's use of al-Queda types as allies in Bosnia. What a tangled web. Here is an excerpt from this lengthy court transcript at the above cryptome link where the judge and lawyers discuss in court how they will next proceed. There are some details that should indicate the depth of cover-up going on before 9/11: <blockquote>Quote:<hr>7923 1 be able to respond to that? 2 MR. FITZGERALD: Your Honor, we can show you ex parte 3 the materials. There is no Brady -- the government does not 4 allege in the indictment that Salim attacked Officer Pepe with 5 the knife. The government alleges that Salim attacked a 6 responding officer with a weapon. 7 MR. RUHNKE: Right. That is important to us because 8 the weapon is lying in front of the hallway to cell number 6. 9 The government wants to be certain that it was Salim who 10 wielded it that will be put before the jury. 11 MR. FITZGERALD: Your Honor, we can reveal in the 12 robing room what cannot be discussed in open court. 13 THE COURT: We will take up in the robing room 14 immediately after we finish whatever else is on your mind. 15 MR. RUHNKE: I have given the government this morning 16 a CNN Discovery Channel series on Yugoslavia called Death of a 17 Nation, and two of the episodes, each of which run 45 minutes, 18 have to deal with Bosnia and what occurred in Bosnia and what 19 occurred to the Muslim population in Bosnia. The government 20 is reviewing it, and based on our discussions there may be a 21 way of shortening the two 45-minute segments, but I do intend 22 to offer those with what comes into our case. 23 THE COURT: Is that with or without any claim that 24 K.K. Mohamed viewed the programs or viewed the things depicted 25 in the programs? 7924 1 MR. RUHNKE: It is exactly similar to the evidence 2 that was allowed in the earlier penalty phrase. In 3 Mr. Mohamed's statement to the FBI he repeatedly makes 4 reference to he thought he would be going to fight with 5 Muslims in Bosnia and that is why he was training in 6 Afghanistan.  7 THE COURT: I just wanted to be sure -- the short 8 answer, there is no claim that he had been to Bosnia or had 9 personally seen anything depicted in those programs? 10 MR. RUHNKE: That is right. 11 MR. FITZGERALD: Just so we are clear, your Honor, we 12 were just handed those this morning. We have not seen them. 13 I am not at all conceding that we won't object to them. I do 14 know there are some gory pictures that Mr. Ruhnke says could 15 be removed. That goes beyond the logical prior question. 16 We are waiting on clarification on what Mr. Ruhnke's 17 experts will testify to. We have been given general 18 descriptions of who they are but not the substance of their 19 expert testimony. We have been asking for that and we have 20 been asking for -- we thought we were going to get 3500 21 material five days before the witnesses testified. I also 22 know there are underlying notes. It sounds as though Mr. 23 Ruhnke's case will be starting Tuesday and we haven't got 24 that. 25 Part of the problem with coming up with a government 7925 1 witness, I was trying to have somebody to use as a government 2 witness who will testify in rebuttal. Not knowing what the 3 expert witness will say in the defense case, it is hard 4 finding that witness. Mr. Ruhnke said that he would like to 5 have that witness start on Tuesday, which is a new timing 6 matter. 7 THE COURT: Why is this such a mystery? You want a 8 Bureau of Prisons witness who will testify as to the 9 conditions of maximum security confinement? 10 MR. RUHNKE: Yes, sir. I tried to work this out with 11 the government. I could have come to your Honor a week ago 12 asking to bring in the warden. I didn't do that. I tried to 13 work it out with the government. I am not saying that Mr. 14 Fitzgerald has not reacted in good faith -- 15 THE COURT: Any reason why this could be resolved 16 tomorrow when we are not sitting? 17 MR. FITZGERALD: No, Judge. I will be calling the 18 Bureau of Prisons over lunch. There are people out in the 19 country. I think we were trying yesterday. 20 MR. RUHNKE: On the issue of expert reports, I had 21 told the government in a conversation yesterday, we had agreed 22 that Gerald Post, who is the former CIA analyst, that we would 23 have a much fuller statement of his testimony by tomorrow and 24 we intend to meet that commitment, and we will have 3500 25 material by tomorrow. The government has gotten a 38 or 7926 1 40-minute report from a mitigation specialist, has gotten a 2 general description of what Mark Cunningham is going to 3 testify to but has, I am sure, 20 transcripts of 4 Dr. Cunningham's testimony on similar issues. I don't think 5 the government would be either surprised or prejudiced by what 6 has been disclosed. 7 MR. FITZGERALD: We were surprised by the opening 8 where he says we will have two witnesses discussing remorse 9 with respect to Khalfan Khamis Mohamed. Knowing what he is 10 going to testify about, having a library available doesn't 11 really help. 12 MR. RUHNKE: Can we discuss the grand jury matter 13 then? 14 THE COURT: All right. Otherwise we are adjourned 15 until 2:15. 16 (Pages 7927-7942 sealed)<hr></blockquote> Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=hughmanateewins>Hugh Manatee Wins</A> at: 4/19/06 3:50 pm

by **Hugh Manatee Wins** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 6:34 pm

Here's what FBI Director Robert Mueller said happened to Hatton on 9/11- <a href="http://www.fbi.gov/pressrel/speeches/funeral.htm">www.fbi.gov/pressrel/spee...uneral.htm</a> <blockquote>Quote:<hr>When terror struck New York City on September 11, our country couldn't have asked for a better person on the scene. Lenny was a Special Agent, bomb technician, Marine, and volunteer firefighter all rolled into one. He was man of great courage who was proud to serve his country and always willing to lend a hand. And his acts of bravery and compassion on that fateful day of September 11 were remarkable. Lenny was at the World Trade Center, saving lives even as he sacrificed his own, not because he had to be, but because he chose to be. He was on his way to work that morning when he saw the first tower on fire. He could have continued on his way to the office. Instead, probably without even thinking of his own safety, he went straight to the scene. Within minutes, Lenny was on top of an adjacent building, surveying the damage and relaying information back to our FBI office in New York. Then, the second tower was struck. Others in the area fled. Not Lenny. He raced out of the building and into the World Trade Center. There, he helped firemen and rescue personnel lead people out of the soot, smoke, and darkness and into safety. One man in the building told us that he was guided out by a person who identified himself as a Special Agent of the FBI. When they were outside in the clear, he was surprised to see the Agent turning back around. "Where are you going?" he asked. "Back into the building" came the Agent's response. That Special Agent, without a doubt, was Lenny Hatton.<hr></blockquote>

by **Hugh Manatee Wins** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 11:28 pm

See the very bottom of the exhibits page. Here's why Western Union stopped wiring money recently. They were allegedly used by terrorists. And the UAE was involved, too. We all know that but the UAE is highly visible here. So this as exhibit in this highly-publicized 9/11-themed trial probably had a part in cancelling the UAE ports deal. <a href="http://www.rcfp.org/moussaoui/index.php">www.rcfp.org/moussaoui/index.php</a> (photo) Exh. GX-UA00210 (intr'd: unknown) Photo of the UAE Exchange Center in Sharjah, UAE showing the Western Union at the location [hi-res: 3129x2364

by **nomo** » Thu Apr 20, 2006 5:17 pm

Defense Rests in Moussaoui Sentence Trial By MATTHEW BARAKAT, Associated Press Writer <a href="http://www.comcast.net/news/index.jsp?cat=GENERAL&fn=/2006/04/20/372771.html">www.comcast.net/news/inde...72771.html</a> ALEXANDRIA, Va. - Defense lawyers closed their case for sparing Zacarias Moussaoui's life Thursday after the government admitted it had no evidence that he and would-be shoe bomber Richard Reid were to have joined in a hijacking as part of the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, as Moussaoui claims. Prosecutors then opened their rebuttal case with testimony from psychiatrist Raymond Patterson, who has examined Moussaoui and disputes claims of doctors summoned by the defense that the terrorist conspirator is schizophrenic. In its last arguments, the defense introduced a statement that was agreed to by the government and presented to the jury considering whether Moussaoui should be executed or imprisoned for life. It said there was no information indicating al-Qaida had instructed Reid to work with Moussaoui on a terrorist operation. Moussaoui had stunned his trial on March 27 by claiming for the first time that he had intended to participate in the terrorist attacks before his arrest a month earlier, and that Reid was to have been one of his accomplices. His lawyers hoped the statement would help undercut that claim and bolster their argument that their client is lying about his role in the attacks to inflate his place in history or achieve martyrdom through execution. Earlier, defense lawyers tried to bring Reid to court from the federal prison in Colorado, where he is serving a life sentence for attempting to detonate a shoe bomb on a trans-Atlantic flight in late 2001. That bid was thwarted. But defense attorneys were able to obtain from the government its agreement on the statement about Reid instead. "No information is available to indicate that Richard Reid had pre-knowledge of the Sept. 11 operation or was instructed by al-Qaida leaders to conduct an operation in coordination with Moussaoui," the statement said. The statement also said Reid had named Moussaoui as the beneficiary in his will and two FBI analysts concluded that was an unlikely decision for him to make if they were going to be on a joint suicide mission. The statement also said that the FBI has learned from al-Qaida sources that Reid had been ordered to undertake shoe-bombing attacks in late 2001 with another operative, Saajid Badat, who pulled out of the operation and has never been heard from again. The two FBI analysts also said that it was unlikely Reid was part of a Sept. 11 plot with Moussaoui because he spent the period from May to September 2001 traveling abroad, including Afghanistan, Pakistan, Israel, Turkey and Amsterdam and The Hague in the Netherlands. By contrast, the statement said, all members of the Sept. 11 operation were in the U.S. by July 2001.  Finally, the defense also introduced evidence that six al-Qaida operatives with direct roles in planning and assisting the Sept. 11 plot, including mastermind Khalid Shaikh Mohammed and planner Ramzi Binalshibh, are in U.S. custody and have not been charged at all. Some Sept. 11 families have criticized the government for bringing charges only against Moussaoui and not seeking indictments against Shaikh Mohammed and others. The courtroom developments followed a second round of testimony from families of Sept. 11, 2001, victims, who were brought forward by the lawyers trying to spare Moussaoui's life. These witnesses pressed their point that they don't seek revenge for their loss. Testimony from about a dozen relatives was meant to counter the emotional punch of nearly four dozen witnesses who gave heartbreaking testimony for prosecutors about the impact of the attacks that killed nearly 3,000 people. Among the defense witnesses Thursday was Andrea LeBlanc of New Hampshire, who lost her husband Robert, a retired geography professor, on the United Airlines plane that struck the second of the twin towers of the World Trade Center in New York. She recalled watching TV when that plane hit, finding out hours later her husband was on it, and the pain of having to tell her kids. "To their credit, they're all their father's children," said LeBlanc, an opponent of the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. "There's never angry words, no recrimination or vengeance-seeking." Court rules prohibited witnesses on either side from opining on the choice jurors will face when deliberations begin next week -- whether Moussaoui should get the death penalty or life in prison. But the defense witnesses left the unmistakable message that they opposed execution for Moussaoui, as they talked about how they have devoted their lives to reconciliation rather than vengeance. Moussaoui is the only person charged in this country in the attacks. The jury deciding his fate has already declared him eligible for the death penalty by determining that his actions caused at least one death on Sept. 11. Even though Moussaoui was in jail in Minnesota at the time of the attacks, the jury ruled that lies he told federal agents a month before the attacks kept authorities from identifying and stopping some of the hijackers. Moussaoui has pleaded guilty to conspiring with al-Qaida to fly planes into U.S. buildings, but not on Sept. 11.

by **blogbart** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 12:59 pm

With the Zacarias Moussai and the use of hijacking testimony of cell phone calls, and the upcoming movie Flight 93 making headlines, isn't it appropriate to focus on the cell phone calls? These experiments on cell phone use in airplanes was done in 2003 and indicates that the cell phone calls purported to have originated on the hijacked plane are hard to believe. 'Project Achilles' - Final (Third) Report and Summary of Findings A. K. Dewdney, 19th April 2003 <a href="http://physics911.ca/org/modules/news/article.php?storyid=9">physics911.ca/org/modules...?storyid=9</a> During the early months of the year 2003, the author conducted three experiments to determine whether and how well cellphones could be operated from aircraft. The first flight (Part One) was essentially a probe of the experimental situation, to acquire some primary data and to work out a simple, readily implemented protocol. The results of Part Two (Diamond Katana 4-seater) have already appeared in these pages. The results of Part Three (Cessna 172-R) appear immediately below. ---- As was shown above, the chance of a typical cellphone call from cruising altitude making it to ground and engaging a cellsite there is less than one in a hundred. To calculate the probability that two such calls will succeed involves elementary probability theory. The resultant probability is the product of the two probabilities, taken separately. In other words, the probability that two callers will succeed is less than one in ten thousand. In the case of a hundred such calls, even if a large majority fail, the chance of, say 13 calls getting through can only be described as infinitesimal. In operational terms, this means "impossible." At lower altitudes the probability of connection changes from impossible to varying degrees of "unlikely." But here, a different phenomenon asserts itself, a phenomenon that cannot be tested in a propellor-driven light aircraft. At 500 miles per hour, a low-flying aircraft passes over each cell in a very short time. For example if a cell (area serviced by a given cellsite) were a mile in diameter, the aircraft would be in it for one to eight seconds. Before a cellphone call can go through, the device must complete an electronic "handshake" with the cellsite servicing the call. This handshake can hardly be completed in eight seconds. When the aircraft comes into the next cell, the call must be "handed off" to the new cellsite. This process also absorbs seconds of time. Together, the two requirements for a successful and continuous call would appear to absorb too much time for a speaking connection to be established. Sooner or later, the call is "dropped."

Testimonies at Moussaoui trial

Re: The demise of flight 93 was scatteration, not cratering.

Re: The demise of flight 93 was scatteration, not cratering.

Fascinating photos....

Re: Fascinating photos...China, FBI Agent Leonard Hatton

Re: FBI Agent Leonard Hatton, bomb expert

Re: The UAE and Western Union

Govt admits it has NO evidence

Do cell phones work in airplanes .. experiment says no ..

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