Ruppert thinks we have gone off the deep end....

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Ruppert thinks we have gone off the deep end....

Postby darkbeforedawn » Fri Aug 12, 2005 6:58 pm

Iran , LONDON, Wargames and Other Distractions<br><br>Keep Your Eyes on the Ball – The Real “End” is Near, But Not from These Places<br><br>by<br>Michael C. Ruppert<br><br>August 12, 2005 0700 PST (FTW): -- I woke up this morning to a host of panicked and hysterical emails about pending nuclear attacks against US cities; about a multitude of rumors that the US is planning on invading and/or even nuking Iran in the near future. Most of the sources of these reports were so-called Internet “journalists” with absolutely horrible reporting ethics and even worse records of making accurate predictions. Readers should actually check “batting averages” before running amok and encouraging others to do so. How often do these guys get it right? These writers also apparently don’t know the first thing about proper sourcing standards either. Examination of most of these reports reveals rumors, unsubstantiated gossip, unsourced anecdotes, anonymous sources and connections that are so far-fetched as to be laughable. One “journalist” even tried to prove that CNN’s new program “Situation Room” was reason to expect an imminent US attack on Iran or a nuclear attack on a US city by our own government. Give me a break! <br><br>more...<br><br>[Edited at request of original poster.] <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p097.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=rigorousintuition>Rigorous Intuition</A> at: 8/14/05 10:33 pm<br></i>
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Re: Rupert thinks we have gone off the deep end....

Postby slimmouse » Fri Aug 12, 2005 7:12 pm

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>This story may NOT be posted on any Internet web site without express written permission.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br> Whilst I actually agree with much of what is being said here, I have one question;<br><br> Do you have permission to reproduce this ?<br><br> If not , why post it ? <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Rupert thinks we have gone off the deep end....

Postby slimmouse » Fri Aug 12, 2005 7:28 pm

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Global food production is declining as a result of both depleted soil and severe drought. Grain surpluses are disappearing even as the population continues to expand. Mother Earth is fighting back. Monsanto is trying to patent a pig and – oh joy – they’ve just broken the genome for rice so that it can now be patented and replaced with terminator seeds and all food production falls into just a few corporate hands. At the same time Warren Buffet and Halliburton can buy up all the electric utilities in the country and control the power supply to both people and government alike. That, my friends, is absolute tyranny<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br> And therein lies the ultimate Bullshit.<br><br> The technology to deal with all of this ALREADY EXISTS<br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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Pass the RI, and salt please.

Postby lilorphant » Fri Aug 12, 2005 7:46 pm

Well, the point I would like to make very clear about RI, as I see it, is that it attempts to collect the information/disinformation, and synthesize it. Every "theory" is placed before us,(thanks Jeff!) and held up for our inspection. Each one of us has the ability to discern what and how much we wish to take from each morsel Jeff feeds to us. I think some of the links we stumble upon are dubious, and I agree that the level of citation and cross-reference is lacking at many of these sites.<br><br>What began as a hobby for myself, (delving into unexplained) led me to this site, however, I did not come to read RI through the lens of "conspiracy", or through the path of lunacy. Jeff is talented, and is quite able to distance himself from the lunatic fringe, if he has sparked interest in certain socio-political phenomena, than it is to his credit.<br><br>I expect many of us use this as a place to dump information, but also to sift and sort, and take the occasional dose of salt as needed. <br><br>That there is a growing faction that quite simply disbelieves anything the government, establishment, authority, press, church, or (insert favorite authority figure here), informs us, is ultimately a reflection of their own dwindling credibility.<br><br><br>However, back to Rupert, he brings up a good point, and that is much of the sources on these are dubious, and would not pass a critical peer review. This is a frustration I have as well. I once discussed this issue with a poster on this board and was basically shut down for my suggestions on how to design a study for RA, which could conceivably be helpful (and lend more credibility) to the subject. I think we need to be aware that this sort of thing only serves to hinder critical examination.<br><br>I myself am attracted to facts, quantitative figures, and provable information. That does not mean I do not have an open mind, I just take notice when their are "bald spots" in the scenery. I also tend to be attracted to pattern recognition, which is what I suspect many of the posters here also have in common. The shortest distance between two lines, for example.<br><br>I hope that more critical analysis will come forth, but not to the expense of continuing review of the inexplicable, and I am not offended personally (and neither should anyone else here) that note has been taken.<br><br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: permission

Postby chiggerbit » Fri Aug 12, 2005 7:55 pm

<!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://straylight.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode17/usc_sec_17_00000107----000-.html">straylight.law.cornell.ed...-000-.html</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br>Since darkbeforedawn is not making commercial use of the article, I would assume he can post it so long as he attributes it. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Pass the RI, and salt please.

Postby slimmouse » Fri Aug 12, 2005 8:01 pm

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>That there is a growing faction that quite simply disbelieves anything the government, establishment, authority, press, church, or (insert favorite authority figure here), informs us, is ultimately a reflection of their own dwindling credibility.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br><br> Kindly explain that assertion .<br> <br> We ( the people ) have spent billions of our dollars supporting that which is plain lies.<br><br> Spent on what exactly ?<br><br> On ridding a country/ threat of WMDs that never existed - and they knew that - See the downing St minutes.<br><br> Based on an official premise ( 9/11 ) that is a pile of bullshit.<br><br> <br> In the meanwhile, kindly explain to me why I should trust the next word that is blurbed out of the mouths of our (non) elected leaders ? <p></p><i></i>
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Re: permission

Postby chiggerbit » Fri Aug 12, 2005 8:07 pm

Or she, as the case ,may be. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Pass the RI, and salt please.

Postby Dreams End » Fri Aug 12, 2005 8:19 pm

First off, you should definitely provide the link if you don't want to print the whole article. And I think it's good not too. Ruppert likes to sue people.<br><br>We should separate out the wheat from the chaff here. Ruppert got just this emotional when many bloggers and "pseudo-journalists" (his viewpoint) speculated that Gary Webb, arch-journo-nemesis of the CIA with his CIA drugrunning stories, might have been murdered. Since Webb's suicide involved TWO shots to the head, it's hard to see why he thought this speculation was unreasonable..<br><br>Much of what he says is reasonable. Well, what he says, but maybe not how he says it. To accuse others of engaging in hysteria when one's own site suggests the end of the world is nigh, is a little unfair. However, the point that we have a lot of DOTS here that could be connected in numerous ways and that there are those connecting them in the most dire way possible is a reasonable one. <br><br>However, we ain't the only ones. For example, the story about plans to attack Iraq did not originate in the blogosphere, but in the Conservative Media, I believe. <br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>an article by Philip Giraldi, in the American Conservative indicates that:<br><br> (1) the U.S. Strategic Command (STRATCOM) has been asked to draw up concrete, short term contingency plans for an attack on Iran, to involve "a large-scale air assault employing both conventional and tactical nuclear weapons" and<br><br> (2) that Vice President Cheney's office has specifically told the Pentagon that the military should be prepared for an attack on Iran in the immediate aftermath of "another 9-11." That's "not conditional on Iran actually being involved in the act of terrorism directed against the United States," notes<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>I pulled this quote from an article by Gary Leupp: <!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=LEU20050728&articleId=748">www.globalresearch.ca/ind...icleId=748</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br>Also, having read the story before the post was edited, I noticed that Ruppert's primary objections to the idea that the US might attack Iran had to do with how that affects short term oil production. I really don't want to start another flame war here, but to consider the effects on oil production alone will not likely give us the full picture and motivation of these nasty, nasty bad guys.<br><br>Now, the idea that attacking Iran might start a world war is not unique to Ruppert. In fact, it seems rather common sense. Russia has a close relationship with Iran and China is playing military wargame footsie with Russia, so this is really disconcerting.<br><br>However, the fact is, there was a "leak" that the US is creating exactly such plans and that Cheney has ordered that one minute after the next "terrorist" attack on the US they attack Iraq, suggests that they are certainly considering the idea. And the fact that it may start a World War? I wish I could completely dismiss the idea from my own mind that not only do they not care...they may, in fact, see this as a positive outcome. Sadly, I can't. (By the way, Cheney did not say it had to be a nuclear attack on US soil. IN fact, they could "prevent" such an attack just in time to the same effect. <br><br>Add the nuclear terrorist "exercise" and the fired general...well, just like Webb's two shots to the head...it ain't proof, but it sure is scary.<br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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slimmouse,

Postby lilorphant » Fri Aug 12, 2005 8:37 pm

That there is a growing faction that quite simply disbelieves anything the government, establishment, authority, press, church, or (insert favorite authority figure here), informs us, is ultimately a reflection of THEIR (not ours) own dwindling credibility. <p></p><i></i>
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Permission to post ...

Postby Starman » Fri Aug 12, 2005 8:43 pm

Slimouse said:<br><br>"Do you have permission to reproduce this ?<br><br>If not , why post it ?"<br><br>Uhm ... I'd say 'Fair Use' pretty much covers it, ie. information of importance useful for research and education. I sure appreciate its being posted instead of having to digest and process a summary and then do the additional steps required to link to a cite. In any case, the author was acknowledged -- I don't think the liberty-taken was a big deal -- it's not like this is a for-profit site instead of a discussion board.<br><br>Slimouse also posted:<br>"And therein lies the ultimate Bullshit.<br><br>The technology to deal with all of this ALREADY EXISTS"<br><br>Er, WOT???? The 'technology' to deal with tyranny already exists? Praytell, what ARE you talking about? As I see it, it's the corporate abuse of technology and exploitation of seriously-flawed economic system in which the 'free-market' demonstrably doesn't have an accurate cost-accounting in place for crucial public resources, ie. artifacts of the commons such as clean water and air, healthy communities, fertile soil, sufficient and appropriate growing conditions ie. weather and climate, a motivated and effective work-force, reliable, efficient and extended supply systems, good government to facilitate good management and long-range planning, social services, and other services re: laws and equitable economic participation, etc., that has led to current problems exacerbated by loss of regional and local control over crucial resources, goods and services.<br><br>Amply documented, our political system is no longer adequate to address a wide range of critical issues, which have been subverted by special and powerful economic special interests -- we aren't seeing real leadership encouraging novel and progressive solutions, but rather an extreme form of CYA denial and lack of initiative. There's an appalling lack of systems-thinking, no cohesive vision of how society and the global community could be best served by development that helps the largest numbers of people in the best, most-efficient and environmentally-benign manner possible.<br><br>If you mean that the problems of drought and weather-extrmes with loss-of-arable land (ie., salt-poisoning from irrigation) and decrease in food-production, declining petro-output that impacts growing market-demand, warming-trends exacerbating bog-melting with release of huge amounts of methane (dangerous quantities of potent greenhouse gas), loss-of-fisheries and death of coral-reefs, groundwater depletion, and agribusiness monopolization and control of world's food supply -- in the absence of political will and effective public support for investment and development of suitable alternatives, the available technology won't do anybody any good, will it? And even limited development of alternatives are only going to benefit those who are most optimally-positioned -- ie, the relatively-affluent North and West --the 'developed' nations which are already exploiting inequitable and criminally-disproportionate incentives, ie. economic and political coercion of debt-indentured and dependant nations.<br><br>I think Ruppert correctly identifies the distractions that are diverting public attention from a great many of the serious problems that are overtaking the world and political institutions that aren't looking-out for the citizens best interests -- if they're not aware, they can hardly act in time to provide effective solutions and prevent massive suffering. It's hardly a secret, esp. to the better-than-average reader on this site (and many others) that the political infrastructure serves their globalist and corporate masters -- and corporations and the wealthy elite have ALWAYS manufactured crises and chaos as a way to further consolidate their wealth. How would these crises Ruppert described be any different? I mean, K-Rist, look at how our whole system is built on the premise of force-projection instead of constructive engagement. As such, your suggestion of 'the ultimate bullshit' is totally off-target. IMHO, of course.<br><br>But perhaps I simply misunderstood what you were driving at. For instance: I see the US's 'energy policy' as grabbing control over foreign oil reserves instead of investing in alternative energy systems and promoting conservation (Helluva shortsighted, self-absorbed 'solution' all right) -- as an example of how technology ISN'T being used to prevent the kind of problems we can reasonably anticipate are going to be of increasing concern in the years ahead. But then, the Bush Adminstration is hardily-biased against science and quite deliberately avoids accurate perception of reality, in favor of wishful-thinking and believing in their own fabled fairytales -- so what else SHOULD we expect? Too bad tho that those most responsible for contributing to serious problems will be among the last to suffer as a result -- it sure doesn't seem fair.<br>Starman<br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Permission to post ...

Postby slimmouse » Fri Aug 12, 2005 9:00 pm

<!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>Er, WOT???? The 'technology' to deal with tyranny already exists</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><br><br> well, Yep.<br> <br><br> And it dont take a mind as sophisticated as yours to work out why that wont happen for as long as it can be avoided - surely ? <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Permission to post ...

Postby chiggerbit » Fri Aug 12, 2005 9:08 pm

Heck, and here I thought you were referring to food production "technology", slimmouse.<br><br>How can we argue the merits of Ruppert's article if it has been reduced down to almost nothing? Bring it back, please. <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p097.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=chiggerbit@rigorousintuition>chiggerbit</A> at: 8/12/05 7:09 pm<br></i>
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Re: Permission to post ...

Postby slimmouse » Fri Aug 12, 2005 9:22 pm

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Heck, and here I thought you were referring to food production "technology", slimmouse.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br> <br> IMHO. I have the utmost respect for Ruppert.<br><br> I just have recent reason/ ne PROOF to believe hes beiing misled.<br><br> If you have proof to the contrary, then fair enough.<br><br> In the meantime take my word for it.<br><br> One things for sure. I would never Knowingly lie to anyone. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Permission to post ...

Postby slimmouse » Fri Aug 12, 2005 10:01 pm

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Uhm ... I'd say 'Fair Use' pretty much covers it, ie. information of importance useful for research and education. I sure appreciate its being posted instead of having to digest and process a summary and then do the additional steps required to link to a cite. In any case, the author was acknowledged -- I don't think the liberty-taken was a big deal -- it's not like this is a for-profit site instead of a discussion board.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br> Im sorry if we have cross wires here Starman.<br><br> The point im trying to make, is that in the interests of everyone on this forum, i think its prudent to post a few snippets followed by a link, lest the site suddenly get screwed by some kind of copyright clause.<br><br> I love to read it straight from this forum, as much as the next guy.<br><br> Im just trying to make sure its all kosha. (sp) <p></p><i></i>
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CREDIBILITY

Postby dbeach » Fri Aug 12, 2005 10:03 pm

I have none..but I do establish some level of trust with my fellow brothers and sisters who like me WANT the Truth<br>by being failry consistent and open in my views.<br><br>Ruppert is someone who gave lots of info..<br>Now he is a ex-police which makes me leary of him..also I saw the flame wars between Rense and Ruppert..not pleased with Ruppert there.. and he kinda said to move on from 9/11 which is his opinion..<br><br>but all the truth seekers may have flaws ..but the Truth keeeps leaking out..regardless if CNN has a war room or bush is having a bummer vaca which of course he does deserve..<br><br>so to lil ole me just a regular guy with sand in his ears..ha ha<br><br>take what I need and leave the rest<br> <p></p><i></i>
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