If 9/11 was MIHOP or LIHOP why do they need torture?

[HMKGrey]

This has been bugging me for a while. <br><br>If 9/11 was a MIHOP or LIHOP operation and if AQ is a front organization and so on and so on... then why does the US Government need these insane torture policies?<br><br>Why go to all that length if you know that YOU are the real do-ers of terrible deeds and the war on terror is your flimsy cover?<br><br> <br><br> <p></p><i></i>

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<br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr> If 9/11 was MIHOP or LIHOP why do they need torture?<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br> to silence the rest of us.....<br><br> <p></p><i></i>

[eric144]

Me too<br><br>I think it is to upset Muslims and provoke them into a premature battle which they would lose. The British/Zionist imperial forces are far too powerful for the forseeable future (nuclear weapons excepted which is why Iran is being given hard stares).<br><br>There is no way that allegations of torture would be seen by Mr and Mrs America unless it was planned that way. The idea that the US media would investigate for itself is completely ridiculous. <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=eric144>eric144</A> at: 11/7/05 2:36 pm<br></i>

[anotherdrew]

because they like torture, it gives them a woody to know and sometimes maybe they even get to administer it. Also, it helps create a cadre of people who are completely compromised and ready and able to administer it, which may come in handy down the road. Also useful for pissing off the locals in the middle-east so it's a all around great move for the bushco shitheads. <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=anotherdrew>anotherdrew</A> at: 11/7/05 2:55 pm<br></i>

[aleanor]

But 1 tal, eric144, anotherdrew ... HKMGrey is asking a pointed question! One which I've asked myself too.<br><br>What is the torture for, then, when there's no possible intelligence to be had in the first place?<br><br>All of this abuse. All of the killing. <br><br>These are mind-boggling crimes. We can't just satisfy ourselves by saying it's "to silence the rest of us" or "I think it is to upset Muslims and provoke them into a premature battle which they would lose", or "because they like torture" ...<br><br>They who? <strong>'They' is us...</strong><br><br><br> <p></p><i></i>

[eric144]

'They' is us<br><br>Only if you're American, and the CIA is no stranger to torture, it's nothing new. <p></p><i></i>

[aleanor]

I understand that if I persist in saying that these problems are our collective responsibility, you'll continue to ask 'what can we do'?<br><br>Well if we cut the world's consumption heroin and cocaine by half, the CIA's black ops funding would be halved too. I say this only half in jest. I don't mean to demonize those who consume drugs, but the fact of the matter is that as long as we [collectively] continue to fuel the machine that is killing us by paying into it, it is we who remain responsible. Could we not content ourselves with some nice home grown?<br><br>If from one day to the next the whole world ceased to patronize MacDonalds et al, ceased to drink Coca Cola, boycotted WalMart, reduced our consumption of gasoline, sought help to reduce hard drug consumption, reduced debt to banks, the CIA and the PTB would have the rug pulled right out from under them.<br><br>The power is in the hands of consumers. We're billions against a handful, after all. If only we could get that through our heads ...<br><br>Call me a kook if you'd like, but I maintain that, since the Democratic process has been relegated to antiquity, starving the corporate strangle-hold is the best weapon we've got. But this will require concerted, collective action. <br><br>Forgive me, this has been quite a sermon.<br><br>But if we're serious about rejecting torture, abuse, and war, we've got to be serious about finding solutions.<br><br>Spare us the feeble excuses.<br><br><br> <p></p><i></i>

[HMKGrey]

Aleanor makes a good point and I see too where 1tal, eric144 and anotherdrew are coming from. <br><br>I've asked this question quite openly of a number of people in recent weeks and it seems to act like treacle... slowing everyone down for a moment. <br><br>It really doesn't add up. <br><br>If you were them... and you knew what we all think they know... then what really is the point of torturing people? <br><br>Think about all the people held for many months and years in Gitmo and so on, it gets even worse... what could they know after all this time? <br><br>I wonder sometimes if the purpose of it isn't simply desensitization. They're making monsters for dirty deeds yet to come and the so the game is all about thresholds. Not pain thresholds but more those of individual conscience for the perpetrators. <br><br>I would imagine the govt will feel like it owns these people... right? And, in turn, they'll feel and act pretty owned too. <br><br>Dirty deeds, yet to come. <p></p><i></i>

[eric144]

"I wonder sometimes if the purpose of it isn't simply desensitization"<br><br>Good point, that as well. <p></p><i></i>

[moustache]

The message is not to the americans/canadians, for obvious reasons, you keep paying your taxes, your "babies" mortgaged to the hilt by "your" government. <br><br>Hate + Control + don.t think of messing.....<br><br>Internent for muslims...........been here before...!! <p></p><i></i>

[anonymous]

"I wonder sometimes if the purpose of it isn't simply desensitization" -- eric144<br><br>The U.S. already imprisons its own citizens without trial as in the case of Jose Padilla, held now for 3 years and 183 days. And only a few seem to care.<br><br>The next step perhaps, is for state and federal authorities to beat and torture American citizens. Then again, maybe that's already taking place but that information is <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>completely</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> suppressed and not allowed to be "leaked". Yet. <p></p><i></i>

[rapt]

I agree that the purpose of this torture is not to "get info" but to create fear. If you look carefully - or mebbe not necessarily so carefully - into what Cheney has been up to from the beginning, it is creating fear. That is one of his prime objectives and it works.<br><br>He's going down though. I am licking my chops. <p></p><i></i>

[HMKGrey]

<br>RAPT -- I agree that the purpose of this torture is not to "get info" but to create fear. If you look carefully - or mebbe not necessarily so carefully - into what Cheney has been up to from the beginning, it is creating fear. That is one of his prime objectives and it works.<br><br><br>That's right. Explains neatly why Cheney simply ignores all published evidence and rattles on with his original mission: "There are WMD." "There will be a mushroom cloud."<br><br>In the final analysis, I believe that the universe needs to move toward love in order to survive... so yes, he's going down. And no matter how bleak it seems and no matter how dark the corners... his kind cannot succeed. <br><br><br> <p></p><i></i>

[HMKGrey]

<br><br><br>"Ironic points of light<br>Flash out wherever the Just<br>Exchange their messages.<br>May I, composed like them<br>Of Eros and of dust,<br>Beleaguered by the same<br>Negation and despair,<br>Show an affirming flame. "<br>-- W.H. Auden <p></p><i></i>

[Dreams End]

Those are all possible reasons. I'd add:<br><br>to get information. There is other information that might be useful to them.<br><br>and also, I have a very disquieting feeling, given the way they torture and the resemblence to other types of reports we see around here, that they may be "programming" folks for various tasks. Harder to do with adults, but they do have some kids. <p></p><i></i>