Absolut must watch animation of 911 flights!

by **John Doe II** » Fri Dec 02, 2005 5:22 pm

This is really a must watch: An animation presenting the four planes, their flight paths and all known information. Be surprised. What an incredibly strange pattern of coincidences. Or in other words how can this been done by pilots. <a href="http://www.team8plus.org/comment.php?comment.news.32">www.team8plus.org/comment...nt.news.32</a>

by **banned** » Fri Dec 02, 2005 5:51 pm

...I was sure the flight patterns would have shown a giant vodka bottle. <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/happy.gif ALT=":D">

by **John Doe II** » Fri Dec 02, 2005 6:09 pm

Yeah, the joke is on me, banned! I'm banned from DU too. I realized I missed something in the title but didn't find any edit function though a nice vodka would do now!

by **Col Quisp** » Fri Dec 02, 2005 6:12 pm

This is a real eye-opener. Thanks for sharing, John Doe. When I first watched it, I didn't scroll down to read what it all meant, and I thought, what the heck is this all supposed to mean. Then I saw the patterns and WOW! If this isn't proof of MIHOP, I don't know what is.

by **John Doe II** » Fri Dec 02, 2005 6:22 pm

Forgot to state who is the genius behind this: Team8+ member Frank (also www.the-movement.com). And I think this really is a huge eye-opener and no speculative source. Only the bare facts as presented by the Commission etc

by **banned** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 1:34 am

...I don't even read it because the format bugs the hell out of me.

by **robertdreed** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 11:33 pm

It's interesting data, but I'll have to reserve judgment on its significance. I need to fit it into a wider context- the one supplied here <a href="http://cooperativeresearch.org/timeline.jsp?timeline=complete_911_timeline&day_of_9/11=dayOf911">cooperativeresearch.org/t...1=dayOf911</a> is the by far the most comprehensive one I've found, thus far. As to Flight 77- Coincidences- note that the hijacking appeared to have taken place almost simultaneously with the successful crashes into the WTC ( Flight 11- 8:52am EST; Flight 175- 9:03am. ) Last radio contact with Flight 77- 8:50am EST. Note that the last radio contact had to do with handing off the flight from the oversight of one ground control center to another- from Chantilly VA, outside Dulles, to Indianapolis. Immediately thereafter, things start to go awry. From the <a href="http://cooperativeresearch.org/">cooperativeresearch.org/</a> timeline for Flight 77- ----------------------------------------------------------------- 8:50 a.m.: Last Radio Contact with Flight 77 The last radio contact with Flight 77 is made when a pilot asks for clearance to fly higher. However, six minutes later, the plane fails to respond to a routine instruction. Presumably, it is hijacked during that time. Indianapolis flight control center is handling the plane by this time. [9/11 Commission Report, 6/17/04; Guardian, 10/17/01; Boston Globe, 11/23/01; New York Times, 10/16/01] People and organizations involved: Indianapolis flight control (8:54 a.m.): Flight 77 Veers Off Course Flight 77 from Washington begins to go off course over southern Ohio, turning to the southwest. [9/11 Commission Report, 6/17/04; Newsday, 9/23/01; Washington Post, 9/12/01] (After 8:56-9:24 a.m.): Pentagon Emergency Center Knows Flight 77 Is Hijacked; NORAD Not Notified? The New York Times reports, “During the hour or so that American Airlines Flight 77 [is] under the control of hijackers, up to the moment it struck the west side of the Pentagon, military officials in [the Pentagon's NMCC] [are] urgently talking to law enforcement and air traffic control officials about what to do.” [New York Times, 9/15/01 (C)] Yet, although the Pentagon's NMCC reportedly knows of the hijacking, NORAD reportedly is not notified until 9:24 a.m. by some accounts, and not notified at all by others. [9/11 Commission Report, 6/17/04; NORAD, 9/18/01] People and organizations involved: North American Aerospace Defense Command, National Military Command Center (8:56-9:05 a.m.): Flight 77 Disappears from Radar Screens According to the 9/11 Commission, “Radar reconstructions performed after 9/11 reveal that FAA radar equipment tracked [Flight 77] from the moment its transponder was turned off at 8:56 [am.].” However, for eight minutes and 13 seconds, this primary radar data is not displayed to Indianapolis flight controllers. “The reasons are technical, arising from the way the software processed radar information, as well as from poor primary radar coverage where American 77 was flying.” [9/11 Commission Report, 6/17/04] Apparently, a radar tower in West Virginia doesn't have primary radar. [Washington Post, 11/3/01] But the 9/11 Commission notes that other centers had primary radars that covered the missing areas, yet they weren't asked to do a primary radar search. [9/11 Commission Report, 6/17/04] People and organizations involved: Indianapolis flight control, Federal Aviation Administration (8:56 a.m.): Flight 77 Transponder Signal Disappears; NORAD Not Informed Flight 77's transponder signal is turned off at this time. [Guardian, 10/17/01; Boston Globe, 11/23/01; Newsday, 9/23/01] According to the 9/11 Commission, the Indianapolis flight controller in charge of the flight has watched it go off course and head southwest before the signal disappears. He looks for primary radar signals along its projected flight path as well as in the airspace where it has started to turn. He cannot find the plane. He tries contacting the plane but gets no answer. “ ‘American 77, Indy,’ the controller said, over and over. ‘American 77, Indy, radio check. How do you read?’ By 8:56 a.m., it was evident that Flight 77 was lost.” [New York Times, 10/16/01] The controller has not been told about any other hijacked planes. (Other centers have been notified about the Flight 11 hijacking more than 20 minutes earlier at 8:25 a.m. [Guardian, 10/17/01] ) He assumes Flight 77 has experienced electrical or mechanical failure. [9/11 Commission Report, 6/17/04] Apparently, American Airlines headquarters and the Pentagon's NMCC are notified that Flight 77 is off course with its radio and transponder not working, but NORAD is not notified at this time. [9/11 Commission Report, 1/27/04] People and organizations involved: American Airlines, National Military Command Center, Indianapolis flight control, North American Aerospace Defense Command (9:00 a.m.): Northern Vigilance Exercise Canceled; False Radar Blips Purged from Radar Screens A soldier monitors a NORAD radar screen. Deep below Cheyenne Mountain at NORAD headquarters in Colorado, NORAD is at “full battle staff” levels for a major annual exercise, Operation Northern Vigilance, which tests every facet of the organization. This military exercise, which began two days earlier, deploys fighters to Alaska and Northern Canada to monitor a Russian air force exercise in the Russian arctic. Canadian Captain Mike Jellinek is one hour into his shift, overseeing the Colorado Command Center, when he learns the FAA believes there is a hijacking in progress and is asking NORAD for support. Northern Vigilance is called off. As the Toronto Star reports, “Any simulated information, what's known as an ‘inject,’ is purged from the [radar] screens.” [NORAD, 9/9/01; Toledo Blade, 12/9/01] Therefore, many minutes into the real 9/11 attack, there may have been false radar blips causing confusion. Additional details, such as whose radar screens had false blips, or from when to when, are unknown. According to Jellinek, the Northern Vigilance is canceled just a minute or two before the second WTC crash at 9:03 a.m. The Russians, having seen the second WTC crash on television, quickly communicate that they are canceling their Russian arctic exercise. [Toledo Blade, 12/9/01; National Post, 10/19/02] People and organizations involved: Mike Jellinek, Federal Aviation Administration, Operation Northern Vigilance, North American Aerospace Defense Command (9:00 a.m.): Clarke Alerted to Crisis, Immediately Activates CSG Counterterrorism “tsar” Richard Clarke is at a conference three blocks from the White House when a telephone call alerts him to the crisis. He runs to his car. He responds, “Activate the CSG on secure video. I'll be there in less than five.” The CSG is the Counterterrorism and Security Group, comprising the leaders of the government's counterterrorism and security agencies. Clarke hurriedly drives to the White House. [Clarke, 2004, pp 1] People and organizations involved: Richard A. Clarke, Counterterrorism and Security Group (After 9:00 a.m.): Indianapolis Flight Control Issues Alert to Look for Flight 77; FAA and NORAD Not Notified According to the 9/11 Commission, shortly after 9:00 a.m., Indianapolis flight control begins to notify other government agencies that American 77 is missing and has possibly crashed. For instance, at 9:08 a.m., Indianapolis contacts Air Force Search and Rescue at Langley Air Force Base, Virginia, and tells them to look out for a downed aircraft. They also contact the West Virginia State Police, and ask whether they have any reports of a downed aircraft. However, they apparently do not notify the FAA or NORAD. [9/11 Commission Report, 6/17/04] People and organizations involved: Federal Aviation Administration, North American Aerospace Defense Command, Langley Air Force Base, 9/11 Commission, Indianapolis flight control (Before 9:00 a.m.): American Airlines Learns of Flight 77 Problems; Cancels All Flight Take Offs in the Northeast; NORAD Not Notified American Airlines headquarters in Fort Worth, Texas, learns that Flight 77 is not responding to radio calls, is not emitting a transponder signal, and flight control has lost its location since 8:56 a.m. [9/11 Commission Report, 1/27/04] According to the Wall Street Journal, a call from the FAA roughly says that Flight 77 has “turned off its transponder and turned around. Controllers [have] lost radio communications with the plane. Without hearing from anyone on the plane, American [doesn't] know its location.” American Airlines executive Gerard Arpey gives an order to stop all American flight take-offs in the Northeast. By 8:59 a.m., American Airlines begins attempts to contact the flight using ACARS (a digital communications system used primarily for aircraft-to-airline messages). Around this time, Within minutes, American gets word that United also has lost contact with a missing airliner (presumably Flight 175). When reports of the second WTC come through after 9:03 a.m., one manager recalls mistakenly shouting, “How did 77 get to New York and we didn't know it?” [9/11 Commission Final Report, 7/24/04, p. 454; Wall Street Journal, 10/15/01] People and organizations involved: North American Aerospace Defense Command, American Airlines, Gerard Arpey, Federal Aviation Administration (After 9:03 a.m.): Secret Service Wants Fighters Scrambled from Andrews; None Are Ready to Fly A few minutes after 9:03 a.m., a squadron pilot at Andrews Air Force Base, Maryland (just ten miles from Washington), hears that two planes have crashed into the WTC. He calls a friend in the Secret Service to see what's going on. The Secret Service calls back, and asks whether Andrews can scramble fighters. According to weapons officer, Major Dan Caine, who takes this call, the Secret Service agent then tells them “to stand by and that somebody else [will] call.” Apparently anticipating the need, one commander has already started preparing weapons for the fighters. However, the weapons are located in a bunker on the other side of The Base, and the process takes time. The fighters don't take off for about another hour and a half (see (10:42 a.m.)). Apparently anticipating the need to launch fighters, one commander has already started preparing weapons for the fighters. However, the weapons are located in a bunker on the other side of the base, and the process takes time. Senior Master Sergeant David Bowman, 113th Wing munitions supervisor, says, “We were doing it as fast as we could, because for all we knew the terrorists were getting ready to hit us.” It normally takes three hours to get weapons from the storage sheds and load them onto the fighters. However, on this occasion, it is later claimed, it only takes 45 minutes. The fighters don't take off though for about another hour and a half (10:42 a.m.). Whilst the crew at Andrews are unloading missiles onto a flatbed trailer, Dan Caine answers another phone call from someone in the White House, requesting armed fighters over Washington. Caine says: “I could hear plain as day the vice president talking in the background. That's basically where we got the execute order. It was ‘VFR (Visual Flight Rules) direct.’” Meanwhile, there are also three unarmed F-16 fighters assigned to the Andrews base on a training mission 207 miles to the south in North Carolina. These are not recalled until much later, and don't reach Washington until 10:45 a.m. [Aviation Week and Space Technology, 9/9/02; Air War Over America, by Leslie Filson, 1/04, pp 78,84] NORAD commander Major General Larry Arnold has said, “We [didn't] have any aircraft on alert at Andrews.” [MSNBC, 9/23/01 (C)] However, prior to 9/11, the District of Columbia Air National Guard [DCANG] based at Andrews had a publicly stated mission “to provide combat units in the highest possible state of readiness.” Prior to 9/11, the mission statement was posted on the D.C. National Guard's public website. Shortly after 9/11, this mission statement is removed and replaced by a DCANG “vision” to “provide peacetime command and control and administrative mission oversight to support customers, DCANG units, and NGB in achieving the highest levels of readiness.” [DCANG Home Page] People and organizations involved: District of Columbia Air National Guard, Larry Arnold, Andrews Air Force Base, Secret Service (After 9:03 a.m.): NMCC Commander Not at the NMCC; Later Misleads Regarding His Role in Crisis Response Brigadier General Montague Winfield. Brigadier General Montague Winfield, commander of the NMCC, the Pentagon's emergency response center, later says, “When the second aircraft flew into the second tower, it was at that point that we realized that the seemingly unrelated hijackings that the FAA was dealing with were in fact a part of a coordinated terrorist attack on the United States.” [ABC News, 9/14/02] However, despite the tenor of this and other media reports (for instance, [ABC News, 9/15/02; CNN, 9/4/02] ), Winfield isn't actually at the NMCC during the 9/11 crisis. [9/11 Commission Report, 6/17/04 (B); Leidig Testimony, 6/17/04] People and organizations involved: Montague Winfield, Federal Aviation Administration (9:03-9:08 a.m.): Flight Control Managers Ban Aircraft Around New York and Washington In a series of stages, flight control managers ban aircraft from flying near the cities targeted by the hijackers. All takeoffs and landings in New York City are halted within a minute of the Flight 175 crash, without asking for permission from Washington. Boston and Newark flight control centers follow suit in the next few minutes. Around 9:08 a.m., departures nationwide heading to or through New York and Boston airspace are canceled. [Associated Press, 8/19/02 (B); USA Today, 8/13/02; Associated Press, 8/12/02; Newsday, 9/10/02] Mike McCormick, head of a Long Island, New York, air traffic control center, makes the decision without consulting any superiors. [ABC News, 8/12/02] In addition, “a few minutes” after 9:03 a.m., all takeoffs from Washington are stopped. [USA Today, 8/12/02; USA Today, 8/13/02] People and organizations involved: Mike McCormick (After 9:03 a.m.): Air Base Commanders Offer to Help NORAD; Timing of Acceptance Unclear NEADS commander Robert Marr. Shortly after the second WTC crash, calls from fighter units begin “pouring into NORAD and sector operations centers, asking, ‘What can we do to help?’ ” In Syracuse, New York, an Air National Guard commander tells NEADS commander Robert Marr, “Give me ten [minutes] and I can give you hot guns. Give me 30 [minutes] and I'll have heat-seeker [missiles]. Give me an hour and I can give you slammers [Amraams].” Marr replies, “I want it all.” [Aviation Week and Space Technology, 6/3/02] Reportedly, Marr says, “Get to the phones. Call every Air National Guard unit in the land. Prepare to put jets in the air. The nation is under attack.” [Newhouse News Service, 1/25/02] Canadian Major General Eric Findley, based in Colorado and in charge of NORAD that day, reportedly has his staff immediately order as many fighters in the air as possible. [Ottawa Citizen, 9/11/02] However, according to another account, NORAD does not accept the offers until about an hour later: “By 10:01 a.m., the Command Center began calling several bases across the country for help.” [Toledo Blade, 12/9/01] The 9/11 Commission later concludes that a command for other bases to prepare fighters to scramble is not given until 9:49 a.m. In fact, it appears the first fighters from other bases to take off are those from Syracuse at 10:44 a.m. This is over an hour and a half after Syracuse's initial offer to help, and not long after a general ban on all flights, including military ones, is lifted at 10:31 a.m. (see 10:31 a.m.) These are apparently the fourth set of fighters scrambled from the ground. Previously, three fighters from Langley, two from Otis, and two from Toledo, Ohio, were scrambled at 10:01 a.m. (see 10:01 a.m.), but did not launch until fifteen minutes later. [Toledo Blade, 12/9/01] People and organizations involved: North American Aerospace Defense Command, Robert Marr, Eric Findley (After 9:03 a.m.): Boston Controllers Give Cockpit Security Alert to New England Planes and Asks FAA to Issue Nationwide Warning; FAA Fails to Do So “Within minutes of the second impact,” Boston flight control's Operations Manager instructs all flight controllers in his center to inform all aircraft in the New England region to monitor the events unfolding in New York and to advise aircraft to heighten cockpit security. Boston asks the FAA Command Center to issue a similar cockpit security alert to all aircraft nationwide. The 9/11 Commission concludes, “We have found no evidence to suggest that Command Center managers instructed any centers to issue a cockpit security alert.” [9/11 Commission Report, 6/17/04] United Airlines flight dispatchers give their pilots a cockpit warning about 20 minutes later. People and organizations involved: United Airlines, Federal Aviation Administration, Boston flight control (After 9:03 a.m.): New York and Washington Flight Controllers Told to Watch for Suspicious Aircraft New York flight controllers are told by the FAA to watch for airplanes whose speed indicates that they are jets, but which either are not responding to commands or have disabled their transponders. “Controllers in Washington [get] a similar briefing, which [help] them pick out hijacked planes more quickly.” [New York Times, 9/13/01 (F)] Other centers are apparently not told the same, and Indianapolis flight control apparently remains unaware of any crisis. [9/11 Commission Report, 6/17/04] People and organizations involved: Federal Aviation Administration, New York flight control, Indianapolis flight control (After 9:03 a.m.): Rice Learns of Second Attack; Goes to Basement Bunker National Security Adviser Rice has just started her daily national security staff meeting at 9:00 a.m. Shortly after 9:03 a.m., an aide hands her a note saying a second plane has hit the WTC. Rice later claims that she thinks, “This is a terrorist attack,” and then leaves the meeting, quickly walking to the White House Situation Room. [Newsweek, 12/31/01] However, according to counterterrorism “tsar” Richard Clarke, Rice leaves the meeting for Vice President Cheney's office. Clarke meets her there a few minutes later and only then does she go down to the basement bunker. [Clarke, 2004, pp 1-2] People and organizations involved: Condoleezza Rice, Richard ("Dick") Cheney, Richard A. Clarke 9:03 a.m.: Flight 175 Crashes into WTC South Tower; Millions Watch Live on Television Flight 175 an instant before it hits the WTC south tower. Flight 175 hits the South Tower of the World Trade Center (Tower Two). Seismic records pinpoint the time at six seconds before 9:03 a.m. (rounded to 9:03 a.m.). [USA Today, 9/3/02; New York Times, 9/11/02; USA Today, 12/20/01; Associated Press, 8/19/02 (B); New York Times, 9/12/01; CNN, 9/17/01; NORAD, 9/18/01; CNN, 9/12/01] Millions watch the crash live on television. The plane strikes the 78th through 84th floors in the 110-story building. Approximately 100 people are killed or injured in the initial impact; 600 people in the tower eventually die. All but four of those killed work above the crash point. The death toll is far lower than in the North Tower because about two-thirds of the South Tower's occupants have evacuated the building in the 17 minutes since the first tower was struck. [USA Today, 12/20/01] The combined death toll from the two towers is estimated at 2,819, not including the hijackers. [Associated Press, 8/19/02 (B)] People and organizations involved: World Trade Center 9:05 am (and After): Flight 77 Reappears on Radar, but Flight Controllers Do Not Notice According to the 9/11 Commission, Flight 77's radar blip, missing for the last eight minutes, reappears on Indianapolis flight control's primary radar scope. It is east of its last known position. It remains in air space managed by Indianapolis until 9:10 a.m., and then passes into Washington air space. Two managers and one flight controller continue to look west and southwest for the flight, but don't look east. Managers don't instruct other Indianapolis controllers to join the search for the flight. Neither they nor FAA headquarters issues an “all points bulletin” to surrounding centers to search for Flight 77. [9/11 Commission Report, 6/17/04] Newsday claims that rumors circulate the plane might have exploded in midair. [Newsday, 9/23/01] However, the 9/11 Commission's conclusion that Indianapolis flight controllers did not look east is contradicted by an account indicating that American Airlines headquarters was told that Flight 77 had turned around. People and organizations involved: American Airlines, Indianapolis flight control, Federal Aviation Administration 9:09 a.m.: Indianapolis Flight Control Tells Local FAA Flight 77 Is Missing, but FAA Headquarters and NORAD Are Not Yet Told Indianapolis flight control reports the loss of contact with Flight 77 to the FAA regional center. They describe it as a possible crash. The center waits 16 minutes before passing the information to FAA headquarters at 9:25 a.m. (see 9:25 a.m.) [9/11 Commission Report, 6/17/04; Washington Post, 11/3/01] However, American Airlines headquarters has been notified of the same information before 9:00 a.m. (see (Before 9:00 a.m.)). People and organizations involved: Federal Aviation Administration, Indianapolis flight control, American Airlines 9:09 a.m.: NORAD Said to Order Langley Fighters to Battle Stations Alert; Pilots Say This Happens Much Later The mission crew commander at NEADS is considering launching F-16s at Langley Air Force Base, Virginia, towards New York to provide backup for the Otis fighters. However, the command area at NEADS overlooking the operations floor (the “Battle Cab”) orders “battle stations only at Langley.” [] [9/11 Commission Final Report, 7/04, p. 46<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/alien.gif ALT="0]"> Consequently, at this time, according to some reports, NORAD orders the Langley fighters on battle stations alert. Around this time, the FAA Command Center reports that 11 aircraft are either not in communication with FAA facilities, or flying unexpected routes. [9/11 Commission Final Report, 7/24/04, p. 460; Aviation Week and Space Technology, 6/3/02] The 9/11 Commission also later accepts this version, claiming that the intent of the alert was not to protect Washington, but because there is a concern that the fighters currently hovering over New York City will run low on fuel, and need to be replaced, and also because of the general uncertainty of the situation in the sky. [9/11 Commission Final Report, 7/24/04, p. 460; 9/11 Commission Report, 6/17/04] NEADS Commander Robert Marr says that after seeing Flight 175 hit the WTC (at 9:03 a.m.), “we're thinking New York City is under attack,” so he directs the Langley pilots to battle stations. “The plan was to protect New York City.” [Air War Over America, by Leslie Filson, 1/04, pp 6<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/alien.gif ALT="0]"> However, at least one pilot, Major Dean Eckmann, asserts that the battle stations alert does not occur until 9:21 a.m. Another pilot, code-named Honey (presumably Craig Borgstrom), asserts that this does not occur until 9:24 a.m. [BBC, 9/1/02] People and organizations involved: Langley Air Force Base, Federal Aviation Administration, Dean Eckmann, Craig Borgstrom, North American Aerospace Defense Command (9:10 a.m.): Washington Flight Control Sees Unidentified Plane, Apparently Fails to Notify FAA or NORAD Washington flight control notices a new eastbound plane entering its radar with no radio contact and no transponder identification. They do not realize it is Flight 77. They are aware of the hijackings and crashes of Flights 11 and 175, yet they apparently fail to notify anyone about the unidentified plane. [9/11 Commission Report, 6/17/04; Newsday, 9/23/01] Another report says they never notice it, and it is only noticed when it enters radar coverage of Washington's Dulles International Airport at 9:24 a.m. (see (9:24 a.m.)). [Washington Post, 11/3/01] People and organizations involved: North American Aerospace Defense Command, Federal Aviation Administration -------------------------------------------------------------------- The complete timeline for Flight 77, Sept. 11, 2001 <a href="http://cooperativeresearch.org/timeline.jsp?timeline=complete_911_timeline&day_of_9/11=aa77">cooperativeresearch.org/t..._9/11=aa77</a> That's a very tight coordination of operations, isn't it? Does planned precision alone account for it? Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=robertdreed>robertdreed</A> at: 12/3/05 8:39 pm

by **slimmouse** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 11:43 pm

Dont ever lose sight of the bigger picture here folks. They dunnit. Thats the bottom line. WE arent going to get our day in court so to speak, and we all have our own opinions about the logistics of 9/11 and the trillion other crimes against humanity , perpertrated by the PTB/Lizards/Illuminati/Satanists/Rich fucks. BUT, Whatever you wanna call them, 'They' dunnit. Dont ever lose track of the basic fact.

by **robertdreed** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 11:53 pm

I was just reading that updated 9/11/2001 timeline, and I find what's archived on there to be much more provocative, and even potentially incriminating, than the often wide-of-the-mark allegations and disputes over matters of detail that have side-tracked so many from the Big Questions (LIHOP? MIHOP? If so, who exactly was in on it?)...just in terms of the reviewing the chronology of the day of the flights alone. I find the lack of a single favored hypothesis and the scrupulous sourcing for all details and comments that is found on the <a href="http://cooperativeresearch.org/">cooperativeresearch.org/</a> website to be a model for how to do history close-up, in the Information Age. They aren't trying to edit out the bumps in the road and the loose ends into one uniform account, they present the overlaps, confusion, and varying accounts- and possible lies and circumstantial factual giveaways- as they really actually transpired, which is the way history actually unfolds. At the same time, there's no truck with nebulous hypotheses that are readily refuted by an overwhelming preponderance of data to the contrary. Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=robertdreed>robertdreed</A> at: 12/3/05 9:10 pm

by **FourthBase** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 11:59 pm

When in doubt, re-read Paul Thomspon's 9/11 timeline. That's my motto.

by **banned** » Sun Dec 04, 2005 12:12 am

While you're upstairs in your den trying to figure out why your bank account is six cents off, someone's downstairs butchering your spouse and kids. We know they did it, we know they'll kill to cover it up, and we know they're going to do it again. Sooner or later we're going to have to go downstairs with the aluminum baseball bat and break some heads.

by **John Doe II** » Sun Dec 04, 2005 5:12 pm

Robertdreed, Why do you think the official data and flight paths are "interesting data" and what do you explain the coordinated flight paths as shown by this animation. Keep in mind that there is no speculation in this animation. Only the official data. And how does the timeline shown by Paul Thompson explain are relativate the animation?

by **robertdreed** » Sun Dec 04, 2005 7:25 pm

You have some data points there, JD2. That's all I'm saying. Presumably, they fit into a wider contextual framework- the one supplied by Paul Thompson at <a href="http://cooperativeresearch.org/,">cooperativeresearch.org/,</a> for instance. I have to admit, I'm not impressed by nifty animations and graphic "re-creations." I don't want to knock it all that much- note that the Cooperative Research site contains such content as well- but as baseline data, I prefer as much text as I can get- for instance, exact latitude and longitude coordinates, in the case of mapped data. "Exact" means as close as possible- degrees, minutes, and seconds of coordinate. I haven't spent a lot of time seeing how your data fits into the wider picture, that would have required that I drop everything as soon as I read it. I'll revisit the data later on. In the meantime, I suggest that you submit it to a more comprehensive site, such as <a href="http://cooperativeresearch.org/">cooperativeresearch.org/</a> , and see if you get any interest. Note- I just tried to visit your site again, without success. Instead, I received this error message: "CRITICAL_ERROR: Line : generic, class2.php Error reported as: [6]: Unable to form a valid connection to mySQL. Please check that your e107_config.php contains the correct information." Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=robertdreed>robertdreed</A> at: 12/4/05 5:09 pm

by **John Doe II** » Sun Dec 04, 2005 8:56 pm

Actually the animation is exclusively based on the official transcripts (messages from the tower) and the Flight path (as presented by the Commission, Flight Explorer etc). Therefore there is no new data and it does neither challenge nor correspond with Paul Thompson's timeline. What important to see is the coordination that appears between the four flights, that is the meeting points, the simultaneous events etc. Distances etc. The only way to present this is an animation. It's like seeing what the tower would have seen if it only had the four planes on its screen. Unfortunately our page is facing difficulties. Hope to overcome them.

by **John Doe II** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 6:06 pm

Site is up again.

Absolut must watch animation of 911 flights!

Absolut must watch animation of 911 flights!

Fascinating! But from the thread title...

Thanks for the joke!

Re: Absolut must watch animation of 911 flights!

Frank

I haven't been banned from DU...

flight paths

Re: It all interesting.......but.....

Cooperativeresearch.org

Re: Cooperativeresearch.org

I'm with slim on this one.

Timeline

data

Data points

Team8+

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