How could congress investigate put-o's if they would?

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How could congress investigate put-o's if they would?

Postby AnnaLivia » Sun Aug 20, 2006 11:03 am

Elsewhere, somebody said somebody said congress and the FBI could discover who placed those put options on the airlines before 9/11, if only they would. I’d like to be able to prove that beyond doubt in a discussion. Can anybody tell me, or point me to, the specifics on the legal mechanisms available to them to do this? Where do I start hunting? The constitution? Legal precedents? Has anybody seen this specific point addressed someplace? all help most appreciated! <p></p><i></i>
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I'm not sure AnnaLivia

Postby seemslikeadream » Sun Aug 20, 2006 7:50 pm

but this is what I've got about them<br><br><!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://journals.democraticunderground.com/seemslikeadream/106" target="top">journals.democraticunderground.com/seemslikeadream/106</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: I'm not sure AnnaLivia

Postby AnnaLivia » Mon Aug 21, 2006 9:29 am

Bless you, seemslad. Big Thanks! Have read your page and the DU page, and will be chasing down the fine links you offered there as soon as possible. Key words for me might be that “procedure called portage”. Can imagine the “blow off your questions” answer used is that that procedure blocks them (congress) finding out…which has got to be bogus but damn I need a lawyer in the family. What I want to come up with is a watertight, bullet-proof argument that spotlights CONGRESS being the problem by showing they are absolutely complicit by refusing to tell what only they could find out. Gotta PROVE they CAN find it out…just WON’T…since it seems a lot harder to prove they already know.<br><br>It’s my opinion that there’s too much focus on evil bushco, and that lets our worse than fucking useless congress robots collect paychecks for being criminals.<br><br>They could so easily subpoena bankers (CIA, too?) I imagine…but I don’t know the specific law that proves this…that overrides the portage thang.<br><br>ok if I repost your link at infoclearinghouse, right?<br><br>thanks again! <p></p><i></i>
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Re: I'm not sure AnnaLivia

Postby chiggerbit » Mon Aug 21, 2006 12:09 pm

You could try going right to the source and ask Tom Harkin. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: I'm not sure AnnaLivia

Postby AnnaLivia » Mon Aug 21, 2006 12:22 pm

chigbit, this is WITHOUT my sometimes smart-assed-ness:<br><br>i love being the dumbest one in the room. means i'm not surrounded by idiocy greater than my own.<br><br>believe it or not, after so many inane form replies from his office machines, the guy doesn't even cross my mind much anymore. would be fun to see him wriggle out of the question anyway. thanks and i will do so!<br><br>anybody here already written such a letter to your reps or senators? should we all ask? <p></p><i></i>
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Re: I'm not sure AnnaLivia

Postby sunny » Mon Aug 21, 2006 12:45 pm

Just my immediate impressions when I first heard about the put options:<br><br>If they knew about them, they must know through which brokerage firm the options were purchased.<br><br>If they knew the firm, they knew the individual brokers.<br><br>If they knew the brokers, they could trace the customers. All that's needed is a search warrant. Prior knowledge of a crime is prima fascia evidence of guilt, and any judge worth his salt would immediately issue a search warrant.<br><br>All of which tells me that no one wanted to investigate this angle. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: I'm not sure AnnaLivia

Postby chiggerbit » Mon Aug 21, 2006 12:55 pm

Try one of those "meet the people" visits, where little old ladies go ask for help with their Social Security or whatever. They all do them all over the state, doubt you'd have to travel far. Now Grassley makes it down here more than Harkin does, so you could give him a try, too. Oh, hey, I just remembered getting one of those "invitations" to a pig roast or something like it for Harkin. You know the kind of invitation--the ones you have to pay for. I'll go look for it. May have deleted it. Shoot, would I ever love to be there when you confront any of them. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: I'm not sure AnnaLivia

Postby chiggerbit » Mon Aug 21, 2006 1:11 pm

More personal and intimate setting? For $500? Is the setting in a motel bedroom? I don't know, Anna, do you think the two of them could be that good?<br><br><br><br><br>"....I am very pleased that Senator Barack Obama will be my special guest this year. This will be Senator Obama's very first appearance at an Iowa grassroots political event, and I can assure you, we will not be disappointed. I hope you plan on attending the festivities on Sunday, September 17th at the Warren County Fairgrounds in Indianola.<br><br>Just before the Steak Fry, on Sunday morning, I will hold a special reception with Senator Barack Obama in a more personal and intimate setting.<br><br>I encourage you to consider supporting the 29th Harkin Steak Fry by becoming a Sponsor with your contribution of $500/person ($1,000/couple) or a Host with your contribution of $150/person ($300/couple).<br><br>Order your Sponsor and Host tickets at TomHarkin.com today..."<br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: I'm not sure AnnaLivia

Postby AnnaLivia » Mon Aug 21, 2006 1:49 pm

hah hah, chig...i'll give them "good". have already addressed my letter to harkin and grassley AND boswell.<br><br>and that's another great idea about the town meetings. (i'll have to wait for the free ones.) june cleaver with a chainsaw in her pocket. i'm so ready!<br><br>ain't illegal yet, to have fun saving the world, is it?<br><br>bwahahahahaha!<br><br>i should have somebody there with a camera to catch the look on their faces.<br><br>got a pretty decent letter in composition. gotta go look up what the oath they take says. when i'm done later today, the rest of you geniuses will please to proofread and improve it??<br><br>we could create a "template"? <p></p><i></i>
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Re: I'm not sure AnnaLivia

Postby chiggerbit » Mon Aug 21, 2006 2:50 pm

Hey, throw in there how Iran/contra never got thoroughly investigated. Grab a quote from 9/11 commission member lee Hamilton regarding Iran/contra"<br><br>?<br><br>www.btinternet.com/~nlpwe...contra.htm<br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>former Congressman Lee Hamilton, chairman of the House select committee investigating the Iran-contra affair, was shown ample evidence against Ronald Reagan and George H. W. Bush, but he did not probe their wrongdoing. Why did Hamilton choose not to investigate? In a late 1980s interview aired on PBS 'Frontline,' Hamilton said that he did not think it would have been 'good for the country' to put the public through another impeachment trial. In Lee Hamilton's view, it was better to keep the public in the dark than to bring to light another Watergate, with all the implied ramifications. When Hamilton was chairman of the House committee investigating Iran-contra, he took the word of senior Reagan administration officials when they claimed Bush and Reagan were 'out of the loop.' Independent counsel Lawrence Walsh and White House records later proved that Reagan and Bush had been very much in the loop. If Hamilton had looked into the matter instead of accepting the Reagan administration's word, the congressional investigation would have shown the public the truth. Hamilton later said he should not have believed the Reagan officials. However, today, George W. Bush is considering appointing Hamilton UN ambassador."<br>Uncovering the Florida cover-up: The good fight continues <br>A Past Look, 25 December, 2000<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>While you're at it, throw in Lawrence Walsh's quote. Let me go look it up. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: I'm not sure AnnaLivia

Postby AnnaLivia » Mon Aug 21, 2006 2:54 pm

ahem.<br><br>it is possible i have too much contempt for these hoseheads, to finish this letter by nightfall. june cleaver will need time to edit.<br><br><br><br>hey chig i meant to mention...had you heard jim hightower is coming to west des moines soon and it's free? i was sent the info if you want it. i think it said early september at a schoolhouse. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: I'm not sure AnnaLivia

Postby chiggerbit » Mon Aug 21, 2006 3:26 pm

Hmm, I have relatives who have been asking me to come up that way to visit. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: I'm not sure AnnaLivia

Postby chiggerbit » Mon Aug 21, 2006 3:30 pm

Actually, Walsh has a couple of quotes, either of which might be of interest:<br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://pearly-abraham.tripod.com/htmls/iran-contra4.html">pearly-abraham.tripod.com...ntra4.html</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br>Mr. Walsh bitterly condemned the President's action, charging that 'the Iran-contra cover-up, which has continued for more than six years, has now been completed.' <br><br><br><br><br><br>Mr. Walsh invoked Watergate tonight in an interview on the ABC News program 'Nightline,' likening today's pardons to President Richard M. Nixon's dismissal of the Watergate special prosecutor, Archibald Cox, in 1973. Mr. Walsh said Mr. Bush had 'succeeded in a sort of Saturday Night Massacre.'<br><br>See also for background:<br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:QAGruQ3KDpsJ:www.nytimes.com/books/97/06/29/reviews/iran-pardon.html+Lawrence+Walsh%2BWeinberger+pardon&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=1">64.233.167.104/search?q=c...=clnk&cd=1</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.albionmonitor.com/0103a/rh-twoparties.html">www.albionmonitor.com/010...rties.html</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br> <br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.eye.net/eye/issue/issue_01.27.94/NEWS/med0127.php">www.eye.net/eye/issue/iss...ed0127.php</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: I'm not sure AnnaLivia

Postby AnnaLivia » Mon Aug 21, 2006 5:32 pm

thanks for helping out here, chig! i can work in the lee hamilton (just saw that) so easily, and it's great strength for the case. will have to catch up to the rest you posted there in a bit. (gotta take a break now - i've been up forever and i'm doing this and sixteen other things at the same time). but here's how it looks right now:<br><br>Dear Senator Tom Harkin, Senator Charles Grassley, and Representative Tom Boswell<br><br>Sirs;<br><br>I am an Iowa citizen who feels safe to presume that men such as yourselves, in the offices you hold, must be knowledgeable in matters of Law and the Constitution as a prerequisite to being able to uphold the oath of office you have taken. It is therefore I seek from you the answer to these questions:<br><br>I want to know the reasoning that is behind the choice made by Congress NOT to investigate, discover, and announce the identities of the persons who placed put options in the stock market against American Airlines and United Airlines in the days preceding September 11, 2001.<br><br>[note: i put "the reasoning that is behind the choice" in italics and underlined, but don't know how to do that in here. afraid i'll lose the whole thing to that html not allowed thang if i go messing around]<br><br>Do you dispute the following, sirs?<br><br>Follow the Money: Bush, 9/11, and Deep Threat <br><br>by Fran Shor<br>Published on Wednesday, May 22, 2002 by CommonDreams.org <br><br>The CIA and Other Deep Pockets <br><br>In the immediate aftermath of 9/11 a number of news stories appeared concerning investments in “put” options in United and American Airlines. Put options are shares that are bets on falling market prices for specific stocks. In the week before September 11 put options in United and American Airlines went through a furious and unprecedented spasm of investment. In addition put options for Morgan Stanley and Merrill Lynch, two of the biggest occupants of the World Trade Center, also saw abnormal activity. Most of the investments in these put options originated in Germany through the Deutsche Bank. Deutshce Bank had earlier acquired Banker’s Trust, a investment banking firm whose Vice Chairman in charge of “private client relations” in the late 1990’s was A. B. “Buzzy” Krongard. In March of 2001, Krongard was appointed Executive Director of the CIA. <br><br>Certainly, the CIA has a history of laundering money and dealings with shady investment characters. What becomes particularly relevant in the lead-up to 9/11 is the August CIA briefing of Bush concerning the potential threat of attacks by bin Laden using hijacked planes on certain sites, such as the Pentagon and World Trade Center, and the fact that the CIA had bugging equipment on bin Laden messages and international banking operations. Although no one has apparently claimed the money from the put options, questions remain about Krongard and the CIA’s involvement. <br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.commondreams.org/views02/0522...">www.commondreams.org/views02/0522...</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--> <br><br>Please, sirs; if you do not dispute the truth of the above, then who’s job is it to address and answer those “remaining questions” about the put options?<br><br>Isn’t it yours?<br><br>Again…if one assumes Congress is somehow prevented from performing this discovery, as opposed to being unwilling to do it… then there must exist a REASON why they (you) can’t do it. It is that reason I am asking you to elucidate.<br><br>What specific legal roadblock is it – please name the law or legal precedent or whatever it is - that keeps Congress from determining the identities of those persons who placed the very highly unusual put options against United and American Airlines in the days preceding September 11, 2001?<br><br>I have read that there is a procedure called ‘portage’ used in these type market transactions, which is a legal vehicle designed to protect anonymity. Could this be what stops Congress?<br><br>If there does exist a legitimate legal hurdle to discovering this information - - this information that one cannot plausibly deny is of vital importance to our security since it is obviously a key piece of evidence strongly indicating someone’s foreknowledge of the destruction perpetrated on 9/11 that launched the unending war on terror we have been committed to, sacrifice bright futures for, and foot the stratospheric bills for- - what is the legitimate hurdle to investigation and discovery?<br><br>Further, if there exists a legitimate legal roadblock, why has Congress not attended to writing law to rectify that situation? A citizen like me might think Congress would think that a good idea, and make it a priority. Is congress interested in good ideas and correct priorities? Feel free to take that one, if it applies…which I cannot determine for myself until you answer this letter, since you are the ones holding the knowledge cards and I am but a seeker of answers to unpleasant yet essential questions.<br><br>The last of those questions is this: If there exists NO legal roadblock you can name, then what is the reasoning behind why Congress has not attempted to discover the names of those who placed the put options in the days before 9/11, so they can be punished? <br><br>With my writing skills as poor as they are, I hope I have not been unclear in my letter, Gentlemen.<br><br>5 years after the destruction of nearly 3,000 lives and the World Trade Center buildings – and the destruction of so much more as a result - I await your answers about this matter of put options quite impatiently, Sirs.<br><br>Members of the Congress are assured of my full support for your spending my tax dollars on “defending the Constitution of the United States” and “well and faithfully discharging the duties of your office” by getting to the truth of this matter.<br><br>Sincerely,<br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re:

Postby AnnaLivia » Tue Aug 22, 2006 12:43 pm

here's the jim hightower info, chig, just in case.<br><br>September 7<br><br>7:30 pm<br><br>free and open to the public<br><br>Stillwell Junior High auditorium, West Des Moines<br><br>for directions or more information call 515 224 1207 (Iowans for Sensible Priorities)<br><br>(i don't know if i'm going yet. i might just so's i can flyer my stuff again, but the financial costs of that are adding up)<br><br><br>my best friend is of the opinion that this letter (i have not finished it yet and still seek brutal critique so as to make it as strong a trap as possible) is going to get me targeted in a serious way, and is urging me not to send it. says it's too soon to fly in full view of the radar and i am underestimating the danger. says it's not about no-fear, it's about winning eventually...<br><br>meantime, i haven't yet looked up when the next free town meeting thingee will be, and haven't come to a decision whether to send the letter before that, or save it for blindsiding them in public. wondering which hosehead draws the most audience at his meetings, since that would be the one to hit first. <p></p><i></i>
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