House of the Red Shield

by **Starman** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 4:37 am

'anon' posted: 'But where is Benjamin described as heir?' Um, what do you THINK heir MEANS? Ultimately, the only certain legal standard of proof for an heir will be found in Probate Court-- not in a third-hand informal 'description'. But barring some immense difficulty, a son managing the huge financial empire his father (now deceased) established can be reasonably inferred to be his legal heir -- doesn't it? The lineage of inheritance is pretty clear. James Mayer Rothschild is a direct descendant of Mayar Amshell Rothschild, and Baron Edmond is a descendant of James; And the present director of the LCF Rothschild Group founded by the Baron Edmond is his son Benjamin born in 1963 -- How is he NOT an heir? To reitterate: A descendant of James, Edmond de Rothschild (1923-1997) founded the LCF Rothschild Group, based in Geneva, which today extends to 15 countries across the world. Although this Group is primarily a financial entity, specialising in asset management and private banking, its activities also cover winemaking (with estates in Bordeaux, South Africa and Argentina), mixed farming, luxury hotels and yacht racing. The LCF Rothschild Group is currently presided over by Benjamin de Rothschild, Baron Edmond's son. quoted from wikipedia via <a href="http://www.answers.com/topic/mayer-amschel-rothschild-family">www.answers.com/topic/may...ild-family</a> The following quote establishes the principle of direct male descendancy as constituting heirs for purpose of continuing the family lineage, fortune and business, which failed in Frankfurt: (from same cite above) In 1901, with no male heir to take it on, the Frankfurt House closed its doors after more than a century in business. It was not until 1989 that they returned when N.M. Rothschild & Sons, the British investment arm, plus Bank Rothschild AG, the Swiss branch, set up a representative banking office in Frankfurt. **** Further questions on this issue might be better addressed to the LCF Rothschild Group in Geneva. ( : Starman

by **glooperoo** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 1:39 pm

Here's some interesting relatively recent Rothschild news: So, it turns out that Amschel Rothschild, who was being groomed to take over the London family business, <a href="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/htmlContent.jhtml;jsessionid=MFF3FY0EDOVVZQFIQMFSM5WAVCBQ0JVC?html=/archive/1996/08/09/nroth09.html">committed suicide back in 1996</a>. He was 41. <blockquote>Quote:<hr> Mr Rothschild, the son of the late Lord Rothschild and his second wife Teresa, had been tipped as a possible successor to Sir Evelyn Rothschild as chairman of the family bank N M Rothschild in London. He left three children, Kate, 13, Alice, 12, and James, 11. Mr Rothschild was buried at the Liberal Jewish Cemetery in Willesden, north-west London, in a service conducted by Rabbi Julia Neuberger, a family friend <hr></blockquote> In 2003 Amschel's daughter, Kate, and Ben <a href="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/htmlContent.jhtml;jsessionid=MFF3FY0EDOVVZQFIQMFSM5WAVCBQ0JVC?html=/archive/1997/07/21/ngol21.html">Goldsmith </a>were <a href="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2003/09/20/nwedd20.xml&sSheet=/news/2003/09/20/ixhome.html">married</a> :<blockquote>Quote:<hr> (Filed: 20/09/2003) But, despite the union between the two renowned dynasties being hailed by social commentators as "the wedding of the decade", acquaintances of the couple say it will be a "very traditional" ceremony. Few celebrities will be present - other than family members such as Ben's brother-in-law, Imran Khan, the Pakistan cricketer, and those who have become close friends. "It will be a society wedding, rather than a celebrity wedding," said one. "Ben and Kate are very conventional, normal people - albeit it very wealthy. Their guests will be drawn from close family and friends." The two, who have been dating for three years, have lived together in London for the past year and are expecting their first child in February. <hr></blockquote> Ok, so this wedding was in september of 03, and they were expecting their first child in February? Did Kate Rotchild get knocked up out of wedlock? Either way, <a href="http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,630-653675,00.html">this sounded like an important marriage</a>: <blockquote>Quote:<hr> Explaining the significance of the union, John Graham, a journalist who knows members of both families, said: “It’s as if the Rockefellers, the Mellons and the Vanderbilts were coming together, although admittedly on a slightly smaller scale financially.” ... The marriage of Kate and Ben will provide a staggering joint bank account by any standards, but especially for such young newlyweds. Ben has an estimated personal fortune of £10 million to £20 million, while the family trust fund set up after his father’s death is believed to be worth about £1.4 billion. Amschel Rothschild left £18 million to his wife and three children, and Kate stands to inherit even more millions from James Guinness, her merchant banker grandfather. Her share in the Rothschild bank, whose fortune runs into billions, is not known. <hr></blockquote> I get the impression that no one really has a clue as to what some of these uber-elite families are worth. Gotta love those trusts. Also in 2003, <a href="http://news.independent.co.uk/business/news/article95332.ece">we have the merger</a><a href="http://www.floydreport.com/view_article.php?lid=755"> of the London Clan and Paris Clan Rothschild investment banks</a>: <blockquote>Quote:<hr> Rothschild family realigns London and Paris bank operations By Katherine Griffiths Banking Correspondent 09 July 2003 Rothschild, one of the world's largest private banking dynasties, announced plans yesterday to merge its London and Paris operations under the leadership of Baron David de Rothschild, currently head of the French part of the bank. The head of the English branch of the family, <a href="http://www.economist.com/finance/PrinterFriendly.cfm?Story_ID=1580001">Sir Evelyn </a> <a href="http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/843770/posts">de Rothschild</a>, who will be 72 next month, will retire from day-to-day management after 21 years running the UK bank, NM Rothschild. The move, which has been expected for the past few months, is an attempt by the Rothschild family to make the complex holding structure of the bank's various arms more transparent. Under the terms of the arrangement, the English and French families will realign their holdings so that both have equal stakes in the business under a single, new holding company called Concordia. At the moment the UK Rothschild clan controls more of the bank in every territory apart from France. .... Under Baron de Rothschild's stewardship, Rothschild in France has risen to the top ranks of the merger and acquisition league tables and can boast similar positions in other parts of Europe. However, the bank, which only employs 2,100 around the world, is dwarfed by its bulge bracket competitors such as Citigroup and Goldman Sachs in America. Baron de Rothschild's rise reflects the growing importance of investment banking for the company, which was originally founded by Mayer Amschel in the 1770s. He had not been the first choice as successor to Sir Evelyn. The baron's English cousin, Amschel Rothschild, had been groomed to take over as head of the English arm of the banking dynasty, but he committed suicide in 1996. Historically Rothschild has benefited and suffered from political events. The English part of the bank made its name bank-rolling the country's campaign against Napoleon in the 1790s. More recently, the bank was boosted by the close friendship of Margaret Thatcher and Sir Michael Richardson, the head of corporate finance who died recently. Sir Michael's presence in the 1980s coincided with large swathes of advisory work on the privatisations of the decade. In France, Rothschild was one of 39 French banks that were nationalized by Socialist President Francois Mitterrand in 1981. In 1983, David convinced the French government to give the Rothschilds a new banking licence. <hr></blockquote> I have to admit that it's been impressive what this clan has been able to pull off over the centuries. Often appallingly evil, but still impressive. And here's a bit of very recent news involving the attempted buyout of the London Stock Exchange by the operator of the German stock exchange, <a href="http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000100&sid=aOTYJq8sGmiM">Deutsche Borse</a> (the largest stock exchange in Europe). So, apparently one Deutsche Borse's shareholders <a href="http://news.ft.com/cms/s/7eb0fe82-ccbb-11d9-bb87-00000e2511c8.html">was a bit miffed at the idea of the buyout</a>: <blockquote>Quote:<hr> More than a year agoWerner Seifert, then chiefexecutive of Deutsche Börse, visited one of his newer shareholders -a hedge fund in Greenwich, Connecticut. The fund manager had something important to ask Mr Seifert: with several hundred million euros of cash on his company's balance sheet, when could shareholders expect to have some of it back? An incensed Mr Seifert, according to people familiar with the incident, shot back a withering reply: he would not be giving in to the demands of "greedy shareholders". The fund manager, equally incensed, phoned his head trader and, in front of Mr Seifert, ordered him to sell every Deutsche Börse share that the firm owned. <hr></blockquote> And who was this <a href="http://www.webpronews.com/business/topbusiness/wpn-54-20050117DeutscheBrseFacesOppostiononLSEBuyout.html">disgruntled shareholder</a>? Why, a US-based hedge fund, Atticus Capital, who's President, Nat Rothschild, <a href="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2005/02/27/cnborse27.xml">fought to replace Deutsch Brose's chaiman, Rolf Breuer, with his own father, Lord Jacob Rothschild</a>: <blockquote>Quote:<hr> at Rothschild is the president of Atticus Capital, a US-based hedge fund which has a 5 per cent-plus stake in Deutsche Börse and is leading the campaign – alongside The Children's Investment Fund – to stymie the German company's plans to take over the London Stock Exchange for £1.35bn. The two hedge funds want to force Deutsche Börse, led by Werner Seifert, its chief executive, to abandon its bid plans, and return €500m (£346m) in excess capital to shareholders. They are planning to call an emergency general meeting to oust the supervisory board and, in turn, dismiss Seifert. However, the hedge funds' approach to Lord Rothschild – whose investment business, RIT, has a stake in Deutsche Börse of just under 1 per cent – may prove controversial. A banker who knows the Rothschilds well said this was an endearing "father and son co-operation". However, an executive close to Deutsche Börse said: "From a corporate governance standpoint it is a bit rich for them to propose one of the relatives of a senior Atticus executive." <hr></blockquote> <a href="http://www.benadorassociates.com/pf.php?id=12790">And it apppears to have worked</a>: <blockquote>Quote:<hr> Shareholders Sink German Bid for London Exchange RANKFURT, March 7 - From the day Werner G. Seifert disclosed late last year that his company, Deutsche Börse, wanted to buy the London Stock Exchange, the courtship seemed star-crossed. First, the London exchange rejected his $2.5 billion bid, saying it was inadequate. Then British authorities voiced qualms about the exchange being owned by a foreign company. On top of that, the London Stock Exchange began dallying with a rival suitor, Euronext, based in Paris. But when Mr. Seifert, the chief executive of Deutsche Börse, finally withdrew his bid on Sunday night, it was the resistance of his own shareholders, not the elusiveness of his quarry, that doomed the campaign. <hr></blockquote> So yeah, I'd say at the very minimum the Rothschilds are still major movers and shakers in the areas of high-finance. I sure can't quantify their exact wealth and power, but then again, I can't really quantify anyone's real wealth and power since that kind of information apparently isn't important enough to be known and reported on in our modern, sophisticated society. Oh well, I'll just get back to happily watching our modern, sophisticated police state take shape and forget about all this Rothschild nonsense. <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)"> Edited by: <A HREF=http://p097.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=glooperoo@rigorousintuition>glooperoo</A> at: 7/21/05 10:26 am

by **anon** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 3:45 pm

Um, what do you THINK heir MEANS?  The question is what robertdreed thinks it means. There may be more than one heir for all I know, but robert seems to think there's just one and perhaps can prove it. Who runs a Rothschild company is irrelevant. If they put Bunky Jones at the helm, that wouldn't make him a Rothschild heir. FWIW, Benjamin may head LCF Rothschild Group, but Edouard was offered the directorship of a larger outfit -- Rothschild Continuation Holdings AG, formed by the merger of Rothschild's three main branches in Paris, London and New York -- and turned it down. More to the point, Associated Press described Edouard as a "Rothschild heir". I'd expect AP to be wrong about whether Chavez is good for Venezuela, but not about who's who. Edouard is also a direct descendant of Mayer Amschel.

by **Sweejak** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 5:09 pm

FYI <blockquote>Quote:<hr>Credit Lyonnais & L.F. Rothschild Ready to Topple by J. Orlin Grabbe -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Les vertus se perdent dans l'interet, commes les fleuves se perdent dans la mer. --La Rochefoucauld What will happen when the world's largest non-Japanese bank topples? The repercussions will ripple throughout the world banking system. Get ready to see Citibank, Chase, and the Chicago Mercantile Exchange hammered. Credit Lyonnais has long relied on two simple mechanisms to ensure its bloated growth: a ready supply of money-laundering deposits from the Cali cartel and similar sources, and financial infusions from the French government (which owns most of the bank) when all else fails. Meanwhile the bank has frittered away its assets in an endlessly array of non-performing loans. Representative of this is Credit Lyonnais' financing of Giancarlo Parretti's purchase of Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer from Kirk Kerkorian in 1990 for $1.3 billion. Later, in 1992, Credit Lyonnais acquired the assets of MGM, which it then sold to a Kirk Kerkorian-backed group for $1.3 billion earlier this year (the same price for which Kerkorian originally let the movie studio go), after having poured millions of dollars into the company. Parretti, for his part, is suing a Dutch affiliate of Credit Lyonnais--Credit Lyonnais Bank Nederland NV--for $3.9 billion because he says they conspired to take MGM away from him. At the same time, Parretti is on trial in Delaware for forging evidence in a another trial related to his ouster as MGM studio chief. Credit Lyonnais booted him out when, they say, he failed to disclose a MGM obligation to repurchase certain movie rights for $150 million. Last week, on Sept. 25, the European Commission supposedly approved French franc 3.9 billion (about $767 million) in emergency government funds for Credit Lyonnais--the third such bailout in three years. (Last year's bailout was French franc 45 billion.) But will these funds really be forthcoming? Some members of the Commission are beginning to realize they have simply been pouring money down a sinkhole or into the leaky pockets of L.F. Rothschild. For months Credit Lyonnais had been begging the world for a capital infusion, including seeking emergency cash from the Cali cartel. But the cartel views the bank as a dying dinosaur, and has gone elsewhere with their money. The big private loser so far is L.F. Rothschild, much of whose fortune is tied up in Credit Lyonnais. Rothschild would love nothing more than to have the French government reimburse him for Credit Lyonnais' lending mistakes. More bad loans on the books involve real estate in France and the U.S. Many of these will be necessarily disposed of at a small fraction of their book value. (Also included in this category is Credit Lyonnais' 51 percent stake in Germany's Bank fur Gemeinwirtschaft.) In last year's restructuring, Credit Lyonnais transferred French franc 135 billion worth of bad loans to a French government-backed entity, the Consortium des Realisations. But the Consortium was financed by a loan from Credit Lyonnais at below market interest rates. Credit Lyonnais is trying to finagle its books so it can announce a first-half "profit" on October 3, to prove to its benefactors their miracle cure has worked. But the simple fact of life is that Credit Lyonnais is already bankrupt, with a negative net worth of about $2 billion. (That is, give me $2 billion dollars, and I will take the bank off the hands of the French government, and call it square.) Other French banks, who do not have the same government largess privileges as Credit Lyonnais, have raised a storm about the most recently announced bailout. The Chairman of Societe Generale, Marc Vienot, has called Credit Lyonnais a "dirty dossier", and filed an anti-competitive complaint with the European Court in Luxembourg. Meanwhile the European Commission has launched a series of investigations into a number of suspicious transactions associated with Credit Lyonnaise. These include its repurchase of a former subsidiary, Societe de Banque Occidentale on advantageous terms. The other bidders for Societe de Banque were apparently not informed of its recapitalization to the tune of French franc 247.5 million by the Consortium des Realisations in January. Credit Lyonnaise then purchased Societe de Banque for French franc 50 million in February. The French Justice Minister, Jacques Toubon, has asked the Paris prosecutor to look into accounting irregularities at Credit Lyonnais that occurred under Jean-Yves Haberer, who was chairman of Credit Lyonnais from 1988 to the time he was fired by the French government in 1993. These are mostly related to the balance sheets of Altus Finance, a Credit Lyonnais unit under Haberer. This probe itself promises to open up a nice can of worms. The current head of the French central bank--Banque de France--is Jean-Claude Trichet, who was head of the French Treasury and supervised Credit Lyonnais during the period in question. Finally, there is the usual assortment of dead bodies that often appear in the banking world when millions of dollars are at stake. One of these is Amschel Rothschild, who until his demise was the chairman of British mutual fund group Rothschild Asset Management. Amschel committed suicide by a very innovative method back in July. He took the belt from a hotel robe, tied one end to a towel rack, and the other end to his neck. He then hanged himself by, well, let's see, "jerking back suddenly". October 1, 1996 <hr></blockquote>

by **Qutb** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 5:54 pm

Interesting piece from <a href="http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000080&sid=apHai5xmbq9s&refer=asia" target="top">Bloomberg</a>. <blockquote>Quote:<hr>June 23 (Bloomberg) -- Rothschild, the biggest family-owned investment bank, plans to increase its market share in Asia, the world's fastest-growing mergers market, by tapping the relationships of its new investor Jardine Matheson Holdings Ltd. Jardine, a Hong Kong-based investment firm that has done business in Asia since the 1830s, said yesterday it plans to buy 20 percent of a company that controls Rothschild's U.K. unit from Royal & Sun Alliance Insurance Group Plc for $185 million. ``Asia is an important part of the world and we'll play a role,'' Baron David de Rothschild, head of the bank, said in an interview today. ``Clearly, Jardine has clout'' there.<hr></blockquote> <blockquote>Quote:<hr> CNOOC Ltd., China's third-largest oil producer, today offered to buy Unocal Corp. for $18.5 billion in cash, in what would be the nation's biggest-ever foreign takeover. Rothschild is advising independent directors of CNOOC's board. New York-based securities firms JPMorgan Chase & Co. and Goldman Sachs Group Inc. are advising CNOOC. `Rapprochement' Rothschild's relationship with Jardine Matheson, an investment firm run by Scotland's Keswick family, dates to the 19th century, when Jardine acted as agents for Rothschild in China. Founders William Jardine and James Matheson built their fortune running the opium trade to China, which led to an 1842 war with China that gave Britain control of Hong Kong. ``It's a rapprochement between two families that have been friends for many years,'' said David de Rothschild. ``They understand the culture and style of our firm.'' Jardine Strategic Holdings Ltd., a publicly listed holding company controlled by Jardine Matheson, is buying the stake in Rothschilds Continuation Holdings AG, which controls the U.K. unit N.M. Rothschild & Sons Ltd., from London-based Royal & Sun. Jardine is investing in Rothschild for ``the long-term'' and plans to help the firm grow in Asia through its ``knowledge and network of relationships,'' the company said yesterday. Friends, Not Strangers Jardine, whose 2004 profit rose more than 11 times to $947 million, was one of China's principal sources of external finance in the 1870s, according to Niall Ferguson's 1998 authorized history, ``The House of Rothschild: The World's Banker.'' The firm helped set up the first railroad in China in 1876 from Shanghai to Wulhan and ``pioneered merchant banking in Hong Kong'' about a century later through the formation of a joint venture with the U.K.'s Robert Fleming, Jardine says on its web site. Fleming is now part of JPMorgan. ``We have links with the Keswick family on the English and French sides,'' said Rothschild. ``It's not like suddenly tying up with strangers. It's tying up with friends.''<hr></blockquote> <blockquote>Quote:<hr>The investment bank, which has 68 bankers in Asia, including nine in China, expanded into the region over the past decade under the stewardship of Evelyn de Rothschild, David's English cousin. David credits Evelyn, who retired as head of the U.K. arm of the bank in March 2004, with the bank's push east. ``Long before most people believed in Asia, he established a base in Singapore, Hong Kong, and mainland China,'' Rothschild said. ``What we're going to do is expand.'' Rothschild in February formed an alliance with Tokyo-based Nomura Holdings Inc., Japan's No. 1 securities firm, to win more advisory business in the world's second-largest economy. Our clients are obsessed with Asia,'' said Lionel Zinsou, a managing partner at Rothschild in Paris, in an interview yesterday. The Hong Kong office could grow to the size of a ``very decent European investment bank,'' he said. Investment-banking fees in China, whose economy grew 9.5 percent last year, may triple to $12 billion by 2010, according to Merrill Lynch & Co. estimates. <hr></blockquote> <blockquote>Quote:<hr>``It's good for a family business to have an outsider,'' said Rothschild, who plans to travel to Asia about three times a year. ``But we are keeping tight control of the firm. We're just replacing one outsider with another.'' Royal & Sun acquired the stake in Zug, Switzerland-based Rothschilds Continuation Holdings, which also controls Rothschild interests in North America and Australia, in 1980. Rothschilds Continuation is controlled by Concordia BV, which in turn is owned by the French and British Rothschilds.<hr></blockquote> So Jardine Matheson was the Rothschilds' agent in the opium trade in the 19th century, and now they're teaming up again to expand the Rothschilds' operations in Asia. But that was then and this is now, right? <img src="http://www2.rothschild.com/graduates/eu/images/BDdR.jpg" style="border:0;"/> <a href="http://www2.rothschild.com/graduates/eu/article.asp?doc=articles/MsgfromBDeR" target="top">Baron David de Rothschild</a>

House of the Red Shield

Rothschild Heir

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Re: Rothschilds expand in Asia

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