deliberating...

by **havanagilla** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 7:08 am

Would be happy for reality check on that one - A few months ago, when I first learnt about the PROMIS affair from this website/board, I was so shocked and bewildered that without thinking much I wrote a post in my hebrew blog summing up the info in the various websites that people here said were OK, and solid in terms of credibility. I didnt stop to think how come nobody ever heard about all of it (including even the name of the software) and why it is censored. In a combination of vanity (i guess ) and recklessness I just thought "eurika, I must break the news to my fellow citizens", but really if I found out about it surely a thousand more people could have been the ones who break the silence. I ended up removing this post after receiving a bunch of unpleasant threats. Among the many responses I recieved was also an email from a senior journalist from the biggest newspaper in Israel, his area of coverage, among others is Internet (he is also an editor/producer in Channel 8, here which is the kind of PBS here, documentaries and "quality" stuff). He also joined my subscribers list at that day and wrote with a big compliment. BUt I have learnt that many start their "bait emails" with sucking up to my ego. (that usually works 90 percent of the time..regretfully). Anyway, as we were making some headway with the emails, he said that in fact he wanted to tell me that what I wrote about PROMIS, that there is a conspiracy about it, is bullocks, because nobody normal believed in conspiracies etc. etc. coming from a journalist that's a bizarre comment. Anyway, time went by, and our correspondence kind of dwindled, one time he emailed me if I want to join him to interview a professor in jerusalem who invented a really good and 100% reliable "polygraph" I declined politely. Now, the most explosive material (for Israeli common readers) in PROMIS is Rafi Eitan. And now, when he became a MK of a fairly substantial party, the newspaper discover that the shareholder of that newspaper was "working for Eitan and his party" namely, he had support from this newspapers owners, which makes it more plausible that this journalist was sent to half fishing expedition and some threat maybe. However, this could all be a coincidence, namely, that my post on PROMIS was intriguing for him, for professional reasons, and not by the command of his bosses. I can't help thinking that this rafi eitan is holding half the country by the balls, and so much so that he receives "blanket secrecy" namely, anything that is remotely connected to him, is totally blacked out from publicity. I trust my hunch. should I directly inquire with this journalist, half jestfully, whether he was on a mission to help rafi eitan's interest ? or is it idiotic ?

by **chiggerbit** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 1:35 pm

Repost the Promis info, then call your journalist friend up and ask him if you can interview him for your website. Did I ever give you this link? <a href="http://www.consortiumnews.com/1999/101499a.html">www.consortiumnews.com/1999/101499a.html</a>

by **hmm** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 1:58 pm

but i think now might be the time to make a few observations about it. the way to think of PROMIS today,as opposed to a historical review of the PROMIS case, is to think of it as a label for a concept. Many people confuse the two. The importance of the concept of PROMIS as it relates to conspiracy theory is the concept of "backdoor" or "trojan-horse" access built into legitimate computer programs or machines that contain computer code. the "real" PROMIS database program is only a example of this concept. The chance that the "real" PROMIS database program is in use today and has any relation to recent events is tiny in my opinion. I think most of those stories we see are smokescreens, they also tend to come from mainstream or what i would consider rightwing sources.

by **hmm** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 9:05 pm

The greek phone tapping scandal is a recent example: <a href="http://p216.ezboard.com/frigorousintuitionfrm10.showMessageRange?topicID=2949.topic&start=1&stop=20">p216.ezboard.com/frigorou...=1&stop=20</a> although this seems to be mainly corporate espionage its recent and has a israeli connection (is it me or is that a creepy/unflatering photo?) : <a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/05/30/AR2005053000486.html">www.washingtonpost.com/wp...00486.html</a> Comverse Infosys (now know as verint) might be the most sinister example,although its hard to find information on that from quality sources. Comverse Infosys makes phone tapping systems for law enforcement agencies and the story goes that certain XTC dealers in LA were listening to their own surveilance tapes. There were parliamentary questions behind closed doors in the netherlands when this emerged. It is claimed the comverse infosys systems in holland were sealed boxes with built in remote access for "diagnostics". Dutch technicians were forbidden from opening them and when a machine had a problem a "qualified" technician had to be flown in from israel. The other israeli company implicated in this kind of activity back then (2001-2002) was Amdocs, this is a company that processed phone billing data. amdocs was also implicated in the scandal referred to in the washington post piece: <a href="http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=23629">www.theinquirer.net/?article=23629</a> As you say that your blogging about PROMIS wasnt received well i am not suggesting this as blogging material, i just felt it might be useful as background information..

by **havanagilla** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 11:20 pm

Chigger, well I will have to write a new post cause this one was erased, but that's not the issue, i can do that, it will just take some time. I emailed the journalist asking if in such case he would be willing to be ineterviewed, his reply email was "good luck", which I am interpreting as no, but will email back to him to ask what he meant by that. Did you notice that MsM changed roles ? now their main business is to put the lid on news... -- Hmmm...thanks for the info on. the PROMIS blog was not received well, but yet another blog was even less welcome, that was about the Israeli cellular phone companies and the Abramoff connection (re, the bid to provide cellular technology to the administration /congress in DC, the company that won this bid, is owned by all israeli cell phones combined and some other financial bodies). This was really received bad and I had to remove it pretty fast. Those cases you cite are interesting, and I might plan a blog on the deeper, cultural aspects of eavesdropping as an Israeli maladie. In fact this prying obssession is applied inside Israel more than outside, so there you are, if you are looking for poetic justice. the lack of privacy and respect for another's space, is first and foremost evident within Israel, where everyone is tapping and recording every conversation. it is a little hell, the result of the "national security state". -- I am now much more aware of dangers lurking outside. ...I can actually SEE those connections in my proximity, in the neighborhood. Its like a web, or network of CONTROL, combined with financial interests. Namely, the security apparatus integrated into the corporate/political game as a player. So in my neighborhood alone, you can see the undercover secret service in action via a small caffe that pretends to be a "coexistence radical left bookstore/meeting place for both arabs and jews", and then one of those agents cohabitates with an amdocs geek and she herself is an expert on computer information spying. Near by, I have that Comverse worker who disguises herself as a Dula, ...and she is the best friend of that spooki biologist (the daughter of the space;JPL scientist) who lives in the slums for some reason. (and her husband owns a PR company representing mainly the big pharma) . So, you have the top masters of security, going down to the eavesdropping corps, ending with possible academic, experiemting on poor arab and jewish kids. What a pretty sight. Anyway, I can also see in this a potential structure or web of MC predators. --- So this is briefly stated also the deeper analysis of Israeli society now, it has some hellish features, or as I said, back to the holocaust, now self inflicted and aided by coporations with legs in the USA. --- Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=havanagilla>havanagilla</A> at: 3/30/06 9:45 pm

by JD » Fri Mar 31, 2006 5:03 am

The PROMIS story is very odd. The software has assumed some kind of a mythic quality in the tin-hat world. I always found the stories interesting but wasn't sure what was myth and what was reality, or even if there was a reality to it. So you can imagine my surprise when I started reading in 2000 I was reading in mainstream Canadian Newspapers that the RCMP was using PROMIS software, and were investigating the backdoors supposedly therein. I couldn't find any current working links to the original newspapers but the articles are saved in other sources. Perusing the Google search below yields a bunch of them. I read them in the National Post, etc. and can vouch this story was in the Canadian MSM. <a href="http://www.google.ca/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGLD,GGLD:2004-07,GGLD:en&q=rcmp+promis">www.google.ca/search?sour...cmp+promis</a> Subsequently I've never really heard any more about it. I read a few to refresh my memory. One article stated it was in use in 900 locations in Canada. Sounds like a pretty standard product. I have some RCMP contacts; one day I'll have to bug them a bit on this topic and see if they know anything about it.

by **havanagilla** » Fri Mar 31, 2006 6:55 am

Surely canada's spooking/science underworld wants a piece of the golden cake (or the chicken that produces golden eggs).

by **hmm** » Fri Mar 31, 2006 7:31 am

I hope i did not leave you with the impression that i feel this is a "israeli malady". Nor would i consider it poetic justice, on my good days i have love for everyone and even see victims in the perpetrators.. Your description of Israeli society mirrors what i see in other countries too (not that this is comforting), it might just be the case that it is less hidden and more "in your face" than in other societies under less obvious (outside) pressures.

by **havanagilla** » Fri Mar 31, 2006 9:51 am

oh, you don't have to, and i do think that the situation here is worse in may respects than other places, which is why i tried to leave. However, on my excursions I came to see the less known aspects of other countries, canada among them, the USA, germany as well...actually, canada is involved in every major MC/bizarre stuff that I know of (PROMIS, Pollard and MC in general), and so perhaps this is not the safest place for people running away from those groups. I assume Australia would be more objective for Mideasterners. Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=havanagilla>havanagilla</A> at: 3/31/06 7:22 am

by **havanagilla** » Fri Mar 31, 2006 10:14 am

Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=havanagilla>havanagilla</A> at: 3/31/06 7:22 am

deliberating...

deliberating...

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RCMP PROMIS Investigations

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