Michael Myers: CIA Agent

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The Internationale

Postby robertdreed » Thu Nov 17, 2005 7:07 am

metaphorically speaking, of course I;') <p></p><i></i>
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Yo, rdr, check this out...

Postby banned » Thu Nov 17, 2005 7:23 am

<!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.maebrussell.com/Mae%20Brussell%20Articles">www.maebrussell.com/Mae%2...20Articles</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br>/Operation%20Chaos.html<br><br>The whole article is well worth reading (written 4 years before the assassination of John Lennon btw), but here's what Mae says about Dylan:<br><br>" Way back in 1966 the American Broadcasting Co. was planning to merger with International Telephone and Telegraph Co.(ITT). ABC had put aside $100,000 advance for the first television special by writer-poet Bob Dylan. The production was to climax the season.<br> On Saturday, July 30, 1966, Bob Dylan had a motorcycle accident."<br><br>and...<br><br>"Bob Dylan's "Bringing it All Back Home" album has a picture of Lyndon Johnson on the cover of Time.<br> By 1966, LBJ had ordered all writers and critics of his Commission Report on the JFK murder to be under surveillance.<br> That research was hurting him. Rock concerts and Oswald. What next?<br><br>While preacher preach of evil fates<br>teachers teach that knowledge waits<br>Can lead to hundred dollar plates<br>Goodness hides behind its gates<br>But even the president of the United States<br>Sometimes must have<br>to stand naked.<br><br>Bob Dylan<br>"It's Alright Ma"<br>Bringing it All Back Home album"<br><br>From Monterey Pop to Altamont<br>OPERATION CHAOS<br>The CIA's War Against the Sixties Counter-Culture<br><br>by Mae Brussell, November 1976<br>(unpublished)<br><br>I DEATH, DRUGS, AND DEPRESSION<br>II THE BEAUTIFUL PEOPLE<br>III THE ENEMY<br>IV THE BATTLEGROUND<br>V THE FINALE...Helter Skelter, Gimme Shelter<br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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Schoolhouse Rock

Postby proldic » Thu Nov 17, 2005 11:21 am

Gouda<br><br>Dylan meets Archibald MacLeish for a game of Scratch<br>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br> Dylan and the CIA. Who knows? I dunno about that. Certainly there’s a precedent what with some cold war artists allegedly serving the agenda of the CIA-backed Congress for Cultural Freedom and its spinoffs. <br><br>But there is this - in Chronicles, Dylan describes a very interesting intersection with Poet Laureate, Archibald MacLeish. You know, Archie MacLeish, Yale Skull and Bones class of 1915 & West Point graduate who purportedly assisted the OSS old boys w/ setting up the CIA in the late 40’s. <br><br>The scene is set at MacLeish’s rustic home in Massachusetts where he had invited Bob over to discuss writing some songs for a play he wanted to stage called Scratch. Dylan describes MacLeish as having “the aura of a governor, a ruler…who carried himself with the peculiar confidence of power bred of blood.” (110). The way he describes it, it seems as if MacLeish is trying to seduce him, or to elicit something. That is how I read into it anyway. They discussed poets, writers, artists, and even JP Morgan. <br><br>Now, the play, Scratch. After Dylan had become familiar with aspects of it, he had a bad feeling. He writes: <br><br>After hearing a few lines from the script, I didn’t see how our destinies could be intermixed. This play was dark, painted a world of paranoia, guilt and fear – it was all blacked out and met the atomic age head on, reeked of foul play…The play spelled death for society with humanity lying facedown in its own blood. MacLeish’s play was delivering something beyond an apocalyptic message. Something like, man’s mission is to destroy the earth…The play was up to something and I didn’t think I wanted to know. (113) <br><br>Then I thought it interesting that Dylan decided he should quote something telling from the main character in the play. As quoted in Chronicles, Scratch says, “I know too—more precisely—I am ready to believe that there may be something in the world—someone, if you prefer—that purposes evil, that intends it…powerful nations suddenly, without occasion, decay.” <br><br>After initial hesitation, Dylan decided to try to write a few songs for the play. So MacLeish calls Dylan back to his house a 2nd time to talk it over. At this time in his life, driving out to MacLeish’s, Bob feels “pretty isolated with just myself and my small but growing family facing a fantastic world of sorcery.” (127) Once there, they discuss the songs, and it seems as if Dylan is painting up a contrast between himself and MacLeish; he being all muddled up and untethered, Macleish clearheaded and wise: “He possessed more knowledge of mankind and its vagaries than most men acquire in a lifetime.” (129) In the end, Dylan didn’t think it would work out. “There was no way I could make its purpose mine…,” he said of the play. <br><br>As he was on his way out the door, Dylan describes an odd memory he had of a “Leopard Girl” he saw in his mind’s eye, whose mother had seen a leopard in the road which marked her unborn daughter for life. Dylan ties this memory to his final departure from wise old MacLeish: <br><br>I wondered, now, whether all of us—MacLeish, me and everyone else—had been inscribed and marked before birth, given a sticker, some secret sign. If that’s true, then none of us could change anything…We play the game the way it’s setup or we don’t play. If the secret sign thing is true, then it wouldn’t be fair to judge anybody…and I hoped MacLeish wouldn’t be judging me. (130)<br><br> <br>ewastud<br>Registered Member<br>Posts: 8<br>(9/29/05 12:50 am)<br>Reply Re: Dylan meets Archibald MacLeish for a game of Scratch<br>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br> Interesting quotes and commentary. I am eager to read Dylan's Chronicles for myself. I was amused that Dylan in the PBS special said that as a high school student in Hibbing, Minnesota he desired to go to a good military school after graduating, but the only one he was interested in -- West Point -- wouldn't accept him. He envisioned himself dying in some heroic battle at that age, Dylan said. <br> <br>Gouda<br>Reply Re: Dylan meets Archibald MacLeish for a game of Scratch<br>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br> In the book, Dylan talks about his "morbid fascination" with war as a young fella, and the impression Clausewitz' Vom Kriege had on him. Clausewitz teaches him that there is no moral order, that only the brute force of politics has rule over the land. Taught him that dreaming is dangerous, so better that one's ideals be taken less seriously. He also mentions his West Point desire and how his father explained that the reason for West Point's rejecting him was because he did not have family connections, a fact of life he did not like but did not dwell on either - it was a challenge to get around. The particulars he chooses to highlight in his MacLeish encounters make some sense in this context, but I think there is proabably a lot more to it. <br> <p></p><i></i>
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Rockin' at Boho Grove

Postby proldic » Thu Nov 17, 2005 11:23 am

The Dead minus G-Bear <p></p><i></i>
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Bohemian Grove

Postby robertdreed » Thu Nov 17, 2005 3:34 pm

Yeah, bfd. That doesn't make it very far, even as guilt-by-association. I think the various members have played there a total of once. <br><br>For what it's worth, my well-informed sources tell me the gig was subpar. <br><br>Beyond the fact that the membership is admittedly drawn exclusively from a people who live in a bubble of elite privilege, I think the Bohemian Grove angle on conspiracy is oversold. If there are criminally maleficiant doings within, it's a group-within-a-group. Or, perhaps, groups-within-groups. <br><br>My private theory about the Dead at Bohemian Grove is that the road crew smuggled in the people who did the video for Alex Jones. That's probably giving them too much credit, but it has roughly the same amount of evidence going for it as the insinuation that they've committed themselves to the mission of providing the soundtrack for Evil In High Places on behalf of the Groveites. <p></p><i></i>
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re:fairly intelligent people insist on stroking off their

Postby hanshan » Thu Nov 17, 2005 4:13 pm

fantasies...<br><br>always entertaining, robert<br><br>coupla good reads:<br><br><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>Voices in the Purple Haze : Underground Radio and the Sixties</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--><br><br>Michael C. Keith<br><br><!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0275952665/104-8969292-6794307?<br>v=glance&n=283155&s=books&v=glance" target="top">www.amazon.com/gp/product/0275952665/104-8969292-6794307?v=glance&n=283155&s=books&v=glance</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--><br><br><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>MANSION ON THE HILL: DYLAN, YOUNG, GEFFEN, SPRINGSTEEN, AND THE HEAD-ON COLLISION OF ROCK AND COMMERCE </em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--><br><br><br>By Fred Goodman<br><br><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>If you want to understand why you can't hear the cool music you love on the radio, why great bands have to struggle for chump change while no-talent losers go multi-platinum, how the rock "industry" devolved from a theoretically "unified" movement (say, 30 years ago) to its current sad state (on one side, well-meaning amateurs without a clue, on the other, bloated multinationals without a care), you could do worse than reading this tome, by a former Rolling Stone editor. Hint: in the phrase "music business," the important word is NOT "music."<br><br><br>Goodman details the stories and machinations of rock entrepeneurs like Ray Riepen (owner of the Boston Tea Party club, founder of "underground" rock radio with Beantown station WBCN and an early player in the "underground" press as publisher of the Boston Phoenix); Bob Dylan's imperial and imperious manager Albert Grossman; Paul Rothchild, who went from hustling bluegrass records out of a closet to mogulhood as capo da capi at Elektra Records (where he signed and shitcanned the MC5 within six months!); <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>Jon Landau, whose odyssey from scuffling college student-scribe to Titanic executive producer included the evisceration of the MC5 as "Back In the USA" producer AND the Frankenstein-like creation of Bruce Springsteen as a cultural phenom;</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> and David Geffen, who interests me less than any of the above so I'm not going to say anything more about him.</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--><br><br><!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.i94bar.com/bookhold.html" target="top">www.i94bar.com/bookhold.html</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--><br><br><!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0712645624/104-8969292-6794307?v=glance&n=283155&s=books&v=glance" target="top">www.amazon.com/gp/product/0712645624/104-8969292-6794307?v=glance&n=283155&s=books&v=glance</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--><br><br><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>groups within groups</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--><br><br><br><br><br><!--EZCODE IMAGE START--><img src="http://www.artthrob.co.za/02aug/images/lum01a.jpg" style="border:0;"/><!--EZCODE IMAGE END--> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: fairly intelligent people stroking off

Postby proldic » Thu Nov 17, 2005 4:19 pm

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>...the <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>insinuation</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> that they've committed themselves to the mission of providing the soundtrack for Evil In High Places on behalf of the Groveites.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--> <br><br>um, yeah, except that <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>they played at Bohemian Grove</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END-->.<br><br>Unless your insider sources told you they missed all the hubub.<br><br>Interesting to focus on the silly but no response on Gouda's postings. Not that I really care to hear more thwack-thwack- thwacking. <br><br>I really think "Dylan as CIA Agent" misses the whole point about Dylan anyway -- and "agency", for that matter.<br><br><br><br><br><br> <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=proldic@rigorousintuition>proldic</A> at: 11/17/05 1:36 pm<br></i>
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Re: still ROTFLMAO

Postby FourthBase » Thu Nov 17, 2005 4:36 pm

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>Imagine, mere topics away there's a legitimately scary, edge-walking topic- the Richard and Susan Hamlin case.</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> And here, people are speculating whether Jerry Garcia was a "CIA piper"- an Internet rumor based on an Internet rumor of an Internet rumor- or, at least as crazy, speculating on whether Bob Dylan was intimidated into writing "New Morning" by a CIA-plotted motorcycle accident.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--> <br><br>Yeah, I'm there, too.<br>Don't even pull some condescending shit with me.<br><br>Are you saying that a band like the Dead or a musician like Dylan didn't have power over a generation? That the PTB wouldn't have an interest in that power, pro or con? <p></p><i></i>
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Re: still ROTFLMAO

Postby proldic » Thu Nov 17, 2005 4:38 pm

<br> <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=proldic@rigorousintuition>proldic</A> at: 11/17/05 1:43 pm<br></i>
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so what

Postby robertdreed » Thu Nov 17, 2005 4:38 pm

True. They played at Bohemian Grove.<br><br>But how much can one infer from that? Who's the Bohemian Grove, after all? <br><br>Who's next on the Enemies List of Musicians? Bono, for meeting with George W. Bush? The bands who play for the USO tour stops in Iraq? Bob Dylan, for meeting with Pope John Paul II? Duke Ellington, for playing for Richard Nixon? B.B. King, for playing at the 1988 Republican National Convention? Lionel Hampton, for being a Republican? James Brown, another supporter of Richard Nixon, for praising Brother Strom Thurmond? (But seriously- I really do wonder about that one...???? My RI tells me that JB is probably a PH Mason, could that be the old-school tie? ) <br><br>I mean, ZZ Top played on behalf of George W. Bush's re-election campaign, and- try as I might- I still can't bring myself to hate them that much.<br><br>I'd tell them off- or at least question them in a bewildered tone- if I ran into them at the airport. But I'm not tossing out my copies of <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>Tres Hombres</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> and <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>Eliminator</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END-->. Have you heard that outro on "My Head's In Mississippi"? <p></p><i></i>
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Re: all the umbrage

Postby robertdreed » Thu Nov 17, 2005 4:45 pm

Somewhere lost amidst the wounded rejoinders and wagon-circling defensiveness is the fact that you all have been serving up some pretty thin gruel on this topic.<br><br>I thought my "fairly intelligent" disclaimer would protect me from claims of "condescension", but I see that I'm mistaken.<br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: all the umbrage

Postby FourthBase » Thu Nov 17, 2005 4:57 pm

Answer the question:<br>Would they have an interest in that power, pro or con, or not? <p></p><i></i>
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good question

Postby robertdreed » Thu Nov 17, 2005 5:15 pm

I think I've already provided a partial answer, above. But I need to clarify the fact that I don't buy very far into the idea that musicians have any "power" over anyone that isn't granted by the individual audience members in the first place. Responsible musicians are wary of such power, and they don't much care for its connotations. Bob Dylan, Jerry Garcia, and the rest of the Grateful Dead are all on the record as disdaining that power. But there's next to nothing they can do about the moth-to-flame true believer factions in their audience, doing thingsa like going through their garbage, or "scrying" from every stray comment they offer, on-stage or off. <br><br>Perhaps the most effective way to subvert the mind-opening influence of artistic revolutionaries is to own the media outlets that program their music (or not); that frame their output with corporate sponsorships that have become a prerequisite to mount large-scale tours; and to own the venues and promote concerts that adhere to rigid formats that keep the audience in line as if they were overly chaperoned teenagers. <br><br>Killing the artists? I won't rule it out, although it leads me to wonder why they haven't snuffed the most overtly political artists currently around- like Ani DiFranco, Bruce Cockburn, Fugazi, Willie Nelson, Steve Earle- all of whom have had careers stretching over decades without running afoul of suspiciously life-threatening events. <p></p><i></i>
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Chronicles

Postby robertdreed » Thu Nov 17, 2005 5:19 pm

Not to be condescending, but I've actually <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>read</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> Bob Dylan's first autobiographical installment in its entirety, and the self-portrait that emerges is a lot more complex than a few out-of-context excerpts might indicate to those who peruse them. <p></p><i></i>
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re: musical collaboration

Postby Homeless Halo » Thu Nov 17, 2005 5:56 pm

...And if you play the Beatles song "She Loves You" BACKWARDS, you will find out that you love her too...<br>-----<br>re: <br><br>Bob Dylan. Dylan never seemed being Comfortable EVEN being Bob Dylan, much less "the voice of a generation" or a "protest" artist, or a "spook" for Christ's sake. <br><br>What exactly are you proposing Dylan is capable of providing for "THEM" who already fucking know everything they choose to know. god.<br>-----<br>I'm not saying that there isn't certainly "interest" by PTB, in general, towards any/all artistry. There are lines showing direct ownership of prevailing "good" art for hundreds of years, at the very least, by the PTB.<br><br>I would submit that the PTB are as affected by ART as WE are, as anyone is. Hence the cultural focus of various arms of PTB changes throughout the ages, despite is "grip" on Power. Instead of trying to think of artists who aren't one degree of seperation from persons in "elite" circles, think of some who aren't.<br>Not many.<br><br>It comes with the "territory" of being "voice of a generation" or other such nonsense, the same with "thinkers" of other sorts, mostly Scientists, but also political and philosophical thinkers, and "war heroes/great generals". Everyone is "influenced" by them, and of course the people who own EVERYTHING own the ART TOO.<br><br>Should think this should be obvious.<br><br>However, to suppose that this means that specific artists actively propogandized for the PTB, especially with naught but rumors and/or "degrees of seperation" as evidence, well that's just silly.<br><br>I think ART tends towards synchronicity, so MOST of this "side" of CT is probably "coincidence", despite its apparent symbolic meaning.<br><br>------<br>"Turn Off Your Mind: The Mystic Sixties, and the Dark Side of the Age of Aquarius" by Gary Lachman (that guy from Blondie) is an excellent GENERAL introduction to this sort of material.<br><br>For putting it in a more Historical "context", by the same author: "A Secret History of Consciousness" (introduction by "weirdness scholar" Colin Wilson, who is a spook too). It also covers all the "basics" of esotericism and mysticism in the last couple hundred years, in a readable format. I liked Ch 12 on 'Hypnagogia' that is, the sleep paralysis.<br><br>btw: the best "literary" description I've ever encountered by a writer outlining the basics of "black" mind/magick and its belief system, the abyss, etc, is in the second book, Chapter 22, 'The Black Hole of Consciousness'.<br><br>this idea is also given some relevant modern attention in "Rational Mysticism" by Jeff Hogan, which deals mostly with populist perennial philosophy and includes interviews with a variety of neo-gnostics/perennialists.<br><br> -----<br><br>I think this is funny, personally. Feel free to discuss what you like. <p></p><i></i>
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