Foolish, dim-witted, cowardly and morally bankrupt

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Re: dream or myth

Postby hmm » Mon Nov 14, 2005 1:47 pm

i dont think anyone anywhere would want to take away your dream,the american dream..but it is and always has been a myth.There have been many brave americans that have tried to make that dream reality,but they failed,or where killed.<br>To see why i call it a myth i would point you to those on the recieving end of that dream,in s-america or the rest of the world.even in the states itself,its still within living memory that there was segregation.<br>To me,as someone on the outside looking in,its hard to see the difference between n-korea and the states in some ways.<br>the flag waving,the pledging,god and country, you dont see that in europe for example..<br>If this planet and the human race are to survive it is the west and the usa that has to change most.<br>History teaches us that if this is not done from within the at some point an outside force will intervene and the longer the imbalance lasts and grows the more likely the change will be catastrofic. <p></p><i></i>
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Proldic:

Postby StarmanSkye » Mon Nov 14, 2005 1:51 pm

Billy-goats are blind, eh?<br><br>So you get off characterizing me and making snotty comments absent substance. Thanks for the heads-up.<br>Apparently my regard for you has been misplaced.<br>But at least I could make your day.<br>Starman <p></p><i></i>
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Re: AnnaLivia, I love you

Postby Qutb » Mon Nov 14, 2005 1:56 pm

British, French, Italian, German, Dutch and Belgian colonialism was mostly benign, really. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: AnnaLivia, I love you

Postby eric144 » Mon Nov 14, 2005 2:01 pm

"British, French, Italian, German, Dutch and Belgian colonialism was mostly benign, really. "<br><br>Yes, when you consider the terrible carnage carried out by local mosquitos on European missionaries who were only trying to win native hearts for Jesus.<br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: AnnaLivia, I love you

Postby Qutb » Mon Nov 14, 2005 2:04 pm

I was being sarcastic at your expense, in case you didn't get it. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: AnnaLivia, I love you

Postby eric144 » Mon Nov 14, 2005 2:05 pm

Britain stopped the slave trade in the early part of the nineteenth century both in Britain and worldwide by treaty. There was nothing civilised nations could do about what was happening in America right up to the 1960's obviously. <p></p><i></i>
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sarcasm

Postby eric144 » Mon Nov 14, 2005 2:07 pm

is my native language. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: AnnaLivia, I love you

Postby Qutb » Mon Nov 14, 2005 2:11 pm

And after Britain abolished slavery, the savages in British Africa were treated in an exemplary Christian manner by their British overlords. <p></p><i></i>
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Hey Nazis!

Postby proldic » Mon Nov 14, 2005 2:17 pm

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>the USA has always beeen a more right wing, barbaric, exploitative, slave ridden place than Britain since its very first day.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>As the son of a Geordie, I know you're lying. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Hey Nazis!

Postby eric144 » Mon Nov 14, 2005 2:29 pm

I live in Glasgow, the poverty here is still a national disgrace but it isn't as bad as America. There is free health care for starters.<br><br>America was the land of freedom and opportunity because of the truly vast open spaces where people were miles from their neighbours and political control or exploitation from anyone. It's not the reality now and never was for blacks. <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=eric144>eric144</A> at: 11/14/05 11:30 am<br></i>
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Re: others who really see

Postby AnnaLivia » Mon Nov 14, 2005 2:55 pm

i will fight alone if i have to, but it is tremendously nourishing to know i don't have to.<br><br>starroute, i needed a smile, too. thanks for "the boomerang". your Lewis story is a perfect illustration. perhaps some will chew on the message until its importance is realized. with your every post, you further EARN my respect, my good woman. proldic and pants elk, thanks, too. only by perseverance and spreading the word will the clear perspective grow.<br><br>and this may seem out of the blue, but sunny, i know you are out there somewhere. i wish you to know what a major impact you, as well, have had on my mental frame, sis.<br><br>starman, i most certainly loves ya, but i think my point about our egos not being the real us slipped right by you. again i say, it may seem counter-intuitive, but what is felt as un-love to the ego can truly be a higher love to the true self.<br><br>it is deep truth? yes.<br><br>it was easy to learn? <br><br>would you like to see my scars, precious angel? <p></p><i></i>
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re: Others who really see ...

Postby StarmanSkye » Mon Nov 14, 2005 3:40 pm

I don't get why a difference of opinion or asking for clarification should result in a spurious insult.<br><br>Where did I say anything about blaming victims?<br>I think American democracy is broken and the power has been wrested, by stealth and guile and force and 'education', from We, The People.<br><br>Proldic's insult stinks and I'm pissed. There was NO communication there -- I wasn't even speaking to him.<br><br>I'm too angry to say anything else.<br><br>Apparently some folks don't see that criticizing American policies (and policymakers) is NOT the same as criticizing all Americans. Talk about egos ...<br><br>This is too absurd and ironic for words.<br><br>I'm outta here, at least for a few days. I just don't like being the object of a snide putdown. In this case, I think it's not only gratuitous but undeserved. I thought the folks on this board were more civil and at least saved their insults for turnabout. I'm not gonna play that game.<br>Starman <p></p><i></i>
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Eyes wide open

Postby sunny » Mon Nov 14, 2005 3:56 pm

Dearest AnnaLivia, thank you for your kind words!<br>On the myth that is America: I've said it before, I'll say it again, the underlying flaws in the personal lives of the "founding fathers" simply don't matter, people of good heart and good will took the founding principles seriously. Yes, the U.S. govt is guilty of massive wrongdoing. When the PEOPLE are educated and know of the evils that are committed in their name, they protest, they speak out, they agitate.Since the beginning, good people have fought against our baser instincts and won many battles, often at the expense of their own lives.<br> Yes, there are those in this country who think "America, right or wrong" who are blind or ignorant or both. Some are hopeless collaborators with the enemies of the American dream, a dream that has been realized on many fronts. The enemy within wants to tear down every advancment made BY THE PEOPLE. The war for the heart and soul of America is more brutal now than it has ever been-but as long as America(n) (people) can boast of nurturing Dr. Matin Luther King, all is not lost.<br>What I have been trying to say in a rather round-a-bout way is that it is the people that make America, or any other country for that matter, worth the effort it takes to make good on the fundamental rights each of us is deserving of. As long as I have a mouth and/or a keyboard, I, and everyone of conscience on this board, can enlighten and wake up the ones still asleep. It can be done.<br>For some good news on the power of bloggers to spread truth:<br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://bellaciao.org/en/article.php3?id_article=9160">bellaciao.org/en/article....ticle=9160</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--> <p></p><i></i>
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Slavery, Jamaican sugar, and Gothic horror

Postby starroute » Mon Nov 14, 2005 4:28 pm

There are darker places in the British psyche than the British themselves generally reckon with. In particular, the Jamaican sugar plantations left a mark on Gothic horror that bears testimony to an awareness which has since been consciously forgotten.<br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.umd.umich.edu/casl/hum/eng/classes/434/charweb/JAMAICAI.htm">www.umd.umich.edu/casl/hu...MAICAI.htm</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Jamaica, as a colony of the British Empire, was a producer of rum, livestock, and most importantly sugar cane. In the seventeenth-century, Jamaica's tropical climate, along with the trans-Atlantic slave trade, made Jamaica into the world's largest sugar producer. Throughout the eighteenth and early nineteenth centuries, Jamaica remained the world's largest sugar exporter. Both the United States and Continental Europe depended heavily on the British Colonial, and therefore the Jamaican, export of sugar. . . .<br><br>Establishing Jamaica's place in the British Empire required "greater infusions of capital and population, particularly through the forced migration of Africans". As this economical equation came to be reality (where "capital" was sugar, and "population" was slaves) the island was covered by vast sugar plantations, owned by wealthy English gentry. . . .<br><br>In the end the slave rebellions, and the abolition of slavery that resulted in a labor shortage, caused the Jamaican sugar industry to collapse.<br><br>As the rebellions were reaching their peak, Charlotte Bronte was growing up and writing her first fictional stories. According to Susan Meyer, there is evidence that Bronte had knowledge of the slave rebellions in the West Indies, and the tortures inflicted on the rebellious slaves. Bronte used these tortures in her fiction, and she also created a black character who lead occasional rebellions against her English masters.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.pilotguides.com/destination_guide/central_america_and_caribbean/jamaica/sugar_plantations.php">www.pilotguides.com/desti...ations.php</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr> With the English came a period of sprawling and prosperous sugarcane plantations and piracy. Slaves were imported from Africa to work the plantations of wealthy Englishmen, many of whom lived in England lavishly spending their Jamaican profits. Investment and further settlement hastened as profits began to accrue from cocoa, coffee and sugarcane production. . . .<br><br> New slaves from Africa, mainly Fante, Ashanti, Coromantee Ibo and Yoruba people were continual imprisoned and shipped over from Africa, then put to work on sugar plantations in appalling conditions. The slaves would have to be up at 4 o'clock and work in the fields until sunset. A worker would yield up to 6 tonnes of raw crop a day. Slaves were burnt, strangled and otherwise tortured to terrorise them into obedience.<br><br>Slave revolts punctuated the 18th and 19th centuries, and freedom was finally granted in 1838. A drop in sugar prices eventually led to a depression that resulted in an uprising in 1865. The following year, Jamaica became Crown Colony, and conditions improved considerably. Introduction of bananas crops reduced dependence on sugar.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.open2.net/slavery/sugar_dynasty.html">www.open2.net/slavery/sugar_dynasty.html</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>The Beckford family were Britain’s answer to the Borgias. In little over 100 years they transformed themselves from an ordinary middle class family into the richest and most flamboyant dynasty in Europe. Their money flowed from 22 enormous Jamaican sugar plantations worked by thousands of slaves. They were the most flamboyant example of a new class of rich West Indian plantation owners who became the yuppies of Georgian England.<br><br>Towards the end of the 18th century two cousins became the inheritors of this vast Beckford fortune. They were both called William, but their lives were radically different. William of Fonthill never set foot in Jamaica. He inherited the bulk of the Beckford fortune and he used that money to live a fantasy life. He wrote the first Gothic novel, composed music and was one of Britain’s most celebrated collectors of art and antiquities. But he also became embroiled in the greatest sexual scandal of Georgian England. With the Beckford name ruined he sought to re-enter public life by building the greatest stately home in Britain – Fonthill Abbey. But this huge Gothic folly and the double dealing of the man who was supposed to manage his wealth meant that the Abbey bankrupted the family. Shunned by society it became William’s pleasure dome where he lived out his exile and watched as the sugar industry that had made him so rich began to slowly collapse.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.infopt.demon.co.uk/beckfor1.htm">www.infopt.demon.co.uk/beckfor1.htm</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Few men attained greater celebrity during the late eighteenth and early nineteenth centuries than William Beckford (1760—1844), the wealthiest man in England. With enormous wealth as his Aladdin's lamp, he decided to make his Arabian dreams come true. By the time he died at the venerable age of 84, he had built the loftiest domestic residence in the world, had assembled a virtual harem of boys, had his own militia to protect his Fonthill estate of 6,000 acres, had written the first Oriental-Gothic horror novel in English literature, and had become the most scandalous connoisseur of hedonism in the modern world. . . .<br><br>Beckford found solace in his exile by writing additional Episodes for his thinly veiled fantasy-autobiography, <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>The History of the Caliph Vathek</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END-->, published in 1786. Beckford portrayed himself in his most wicked colours as the villainous Vathek, the caliph who is satiated with sensual pleasures and builds a tower so he can penetrate the forbidden secrets of heaven itself. Prince Gulchenrouz is modelled upon Courtenay, "the most delicate and lovely creature in the world" who occasionally puts on the dresses of Princess Nouronihar (modelled upon Courtenay's aunt Lady Loughborough). Princess Carathis, based upon Beckford's mother, is a witch who is always mixing the powder of Egyptian mummies with frogs' warts, and running up and down the palace casting evil spells, much as she did in real life. Vathek becomes insanely jealous and murders both Nouronihar and Gulchenrouz, but Gulchenrouz ascends straight to heaven and lives in a perpetual childhood surrounded by a bevy of beautiful boy-houris. Vathek sacrifices fifty lovely lads, who "stripped and presented to the admiration of the spectators the suppleness and grace of their delicate limbs. . . . At intervals they nimbly started from each other for the sake of being caught again and mutually imparting a thousand caresses." They are thrown over a cliff one by one, but are rescued by a magic genie and taken to join Gulchenrouz in his merry sports. Vathek finally ends up in hell, "wandering in an eternity of anguish" for his venture into eighteenth century sadomasochism.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://pluto.scs.ryerson.ca/~monica/lewis.htm">pluto.scs.ryerson.ca/~monica/lewis.htm</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Matthew Lewis wrote his best-known work, <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>The Monk,</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> over a period of ten weeks at the age of 19. When first published there was public outcry against the violence and sexual content of the book, and in particular its blasphemy and covert homosexuality. The Marquis de Sade had high praise for it, calling it <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>far superior in every respect to the strange flights of Mrs. Radcliffe's brilliant imagination.</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> He may have recognized in it traces of his <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>Justine,</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> which Lewis obtained in Paris in 1792. . . .<br><br>When Lewis was elected to Parliament in 1796, it was to represent the seat of Hindon, vacated by William Beckford, author of <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>Vathek.</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> Beckford, although unprosecuted, was unable to take the seat because of outrage following the exposure of his liaison with Lord Courtenay. It is ironic that Lewis, whose homosexuality was hardly a secret, was accepted in his place. In fact, his association with deviance contributed to his celebrity. . . .<br><br>Lewis had a sugar plantation in Jamaica, the subject of his book <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>Journal of a West Indian Proprietor.</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> The year after visiting Byron he returned to Jamaica where he contracted yellow fever. Lewis died on the passage home and was buried at sea. The chain weights slipped off his coffin which bobbed back to the surface; when last seen, he was drifting back to Jamaica. In spite of his reservations about <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>The Monk</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> and Lewis' dinner parties full of young ensigns and mirrored bookcases, Byron wrote <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>I would give many a Sugar Cane, Monk Lewis were alive again.</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br> <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=starroute>starroute</A> at: 11/14/05 1:36 pm<br></i>
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This is a case for Antiaristo re: British psyche

Postby sunny » Mon Nov 14, 2005 4:36 pm

where the hell is he? Anybody heard from him?<!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :\ --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/ohwell.gif ALT=":\"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <p></p><i></i>
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