Foolish, dim-witted, cowardly and morally bankrupt

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Re: Slavery, Jamaican sugar, and Gothic horror

Postby eric144 » Mon Nov 14, 2005 5:01 pm

Sure, but that was a largely private horror which was campaigned against and abolished in Britain first, around 1830. Institutional racism continued until the 1960's in the USA.<br><br>No one is claiming the eighteenth century was a pleasant time for the poor or blacks. All I was saying was that slavery was a national institution in America with all the named presidents and constitutional reps being slave owners.<br><br>Despite the fancy rhetoric, America was substantially worse. If it hadn't been for the dispute betweeen north and south over tarrifs, slavery would have been there considerably longer.<br><br>That is my overarching impression of the USA, more than anywhere else, the rhetoric fails to match the reality. It started with slave owning, sexual exploiting bankrupt Jefferson and continues today with 'they hate our freedoms"<br><br> <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=eric144>eric144</A> at: 11/14/05 2:18 pm<br></i>
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free healthcare. are you joking

Postby michael meiring » Mon Nov 14, 2005 5:21 pm

eric144<br>Registered Member<br>Posts: 260<br>(11/14/05 11:29 am)<br><br>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br> I live in Glasgow, the poverty here is still a national disgrace but it isn't as bad as America. There is free health care for starters.<br> -------------------------------------------------------<br><br>I hate to blow the lid on the urban myth of free healthcare, but, who pays? all taxpayers pay, be it indirectly for health care. This is one of the most repeated urban lies going, free health care, come on.<br><br>How much does 'free' healthcare cost? every time the doc prescribes you an asprin, a pharmecutical crook gets paid for the pill, they dont give them away free you know. So who pays the pharmecutical giants for the medicine? and where does that money come from? the money tree at the end of everyones garden? <p></p><i></i>
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Re: free healthcare. are you joking

Postby eric144 » Mon Nov 14, 2005 5:25 pm

No it isn't free any more than cruise missiles or aircraft carriers. It's subsidised for the poor, it means they get free treatment if they need it.<br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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national health care

Postby professorpan » Mon Nov 14, 2005 6:10 pm

I know folks in the UK and Canada as well as expats, and they all are appalled by the U.S. health care system. <br><br>Universal health care should be mandatory. Government "of the people" should, as its most basic function, provide health care and education for its citizens. If our money wasn't pouring into the corporate/military/industrial corpocracy we could do it easily. <p></p><i></i>
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fools rush in where

Postby AnnaLivia » Mon Nov 14, 2005 6:26 pm

Starman, first of all, make no mistake about this: there was not one shred of sarcasm in my calling you precious angel, ok? OK? Be very clear that I cherish who you are.<br><br>Second, I’m wading into some seriously dangerous waters to try to speak for Proldic, and man oh MAN does it EVER gripe my EGO’S ass that I am always running two steps behind his particular savvy. Har, har, and har! I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: I recognized from the start that I had no more natural ally here than Proldic, but did that keep he and I from gnawing on each other’s ankles? The newbies around here probably missed the show, but anyone been here very long has seen us go at each other more than once, I daresay. But here’s the deal. That’s just humans being the hilarious beings we are, god love us, and we BOTH have our eyes on the super-big prize, so we try not to snack on each other too much. We didn’t agree to that. We have never spoken to each other in private. We just are both focused very intently on justice for the working people of this world, and have nothing but a giant fuck-you for the oppressors and their apologists. We know who the enemy is, and who it isn’t.<br><br>So, out on another limb I go, but I think THIS is why he told you you are being blind: you said: <br><br>“If I *get* your POV, you apparently believe our political institutions and its players, for the most part, have always worked for the mass public's greatest good -- and basically succeeded in promoting liberal and progressive ideals.<br><br>I guess what really puzzles me is why, or how, a difference of opinion on this issue would cause you to criticize Banned's and Maggrwaggr's egos”<br><br>well, that is NOT my point of view, and yes, you ought to know it isn’t, by now! and I didn’t criticize banned’s and maggrwaggr’s ego’s! I attempted to…and repeated the attempt as well…to, as best I could, make it clear I had no wish to attack either one of them. They are both members of this community that I value as well! But am I being kind to them to withhold criticism of the harmful attitude, when I believe with all my heart they are in danger from it??<br><br>it’s ALL “just” discussion, but hopefully hopefully hopefully, it moves us in the direction of getting things done! Did the stuff I know come from inside me? well, what’s inside me sure does count, but I am trying to pass along stuff I learned along the way from people a damn site smarter than I am!<br><br>look, I have a song I play for myself a lot to keep me healthy by making me laugh at myself. The line that makes me value it is this one: “I’m just a stupid fuck with brilliant luck, and sometimes a bright idea”. There ain’t truer words written, pertaining to myself, and I know that better than anyone. The same band, on the same recording, sings another one for me: “I’m so full of love, it deeply sickens me”.<br><br>I mean, come ON. If you’re not laughing by now, it IS time to take a break, and take your mind off the boil for a while!<br><br>We ALL need to laugh at ourselves, and WITH each other. Our egos are trying to kill us! We’ll perish, without the laughter! Welcome to the dance-dance revolution!<br><br>Another line: “So shower me in a chorus of compliments and verse I don’t deserve. I might run, but I’ll never hide!” the kid who wrote this stuff is a true poet!<br><br>Is there enough frustration to go around for everybody? Boy howdy, IS there! And to everybody out there, unless you are a nazi, a child abuser, or an uber-wealthpowerful oppressor, here’s me falling all over myself with apologies if I have EVER done ANYTHING that works against your TRUE best interests.<br><br>Lastly, sunny, you’re welcome, and you have touched on a real important thing about the blogosphere. I’m on my way out the door for a bit, but when I get back I’ll post a thing I KNOW you’ll want to read!<br><br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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Help, I've lost the plot

Postby kornholio » Mon Nov 14, 2005 7:40 pm

AnnaLivia, you seem to have a problem with the notion that real live normal American people bear any responsibility for the evil committed in their names.<br><br>Don't we? It's a free country, after all, and most of the propaganda is transparently ludicrous. Normal people can figure out more or less what's going on if they try.<br><br>Can you point out anything in the original article, "Iron Fisted America" by Charles Sullivan, that is untrue? Or explain why you think the ideas in the article are "lies that both he [eric144] and George Bush want you to buy into?" I'm just not getting anything from all the ego talk, sorry. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: A Guide to the White Trash Planet for Urban Liberals

Postby Gouda » Mon Nov 14, 2005 8:39 pm

anna, you may enjoy this from good old' Joe Bageant. He might not be right about everything, but he is living in Wichester VA, and we are not: <br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.dissidentvoice.org/Feb05/Bageant0218.htm">www.dissidentvoice.org/Fe...nt0218.htm</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>Poor, White and Pissed<br>A Guide to the White Trash Planet for Urban Liberals</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><br>by Joe Bageant<br>www.dissidentvoice.org<br>February 18, 2005<br><br>If you are reading this it is very likely that you are a liberal, maybe even an outright screaming burn down the goddam country commie -- in which case I say, “Come sit by me comrade!” (Especially if you are a blonde.) Like most lefties you probably live in an urban area, or someplace with reasonable cultural diversity. More than likely you are educated and can read this without moving your lips. Maybe you even live in the freethinking People’s Republic of Berkeley, or bustle along under the fabled lights of Manhattan where you can see independent films and buy such things as leeks and soy milk at your grocery store. <br><br>I, however, live in a town where it is easier to find chitterlings, ponhaus and souse in the grocery store than a leek … and where Smokey and the Bandit still plays to packed movie houses year after year. My hometown’s claim to fame is the 1983 “Rhinehart Tire Fire” in which some five million discarded tires burned for nine months, gaining Winchester, Virginia national news coverage and EPA superfund cleanup status. The smoke plume was visible in satellite earth photos, the cleanup took 18 years and the fire stands as my hometown’s biggest event of the Twentieth Century. As for intellectual life, this is a town where damned few residents ever heard of, say, Susan Sontag. Even though our local newspaper editor did manage a post mortem editorial on Sontag, which basically said: Goodbye you piece of New York Jewish commie shit!, most people reading the paper at their breakfast tables around town were asking themselves, “Who the hell is Susan Sontag?” They would ask the same thing about Daniel Barenboim or Hunter S. Thompson because those figures have never been on Oprah. Our general ambience was well summed up by a visiting Atlanta lawyer who looked around town and observed: “Dumb lordee I reckon!” This from a guy who’s seen a lot of dumb crackers. Laugh if you want, but this is the red state American heartland everybody is talking about these days.<br><br>Is it possible for a higher class of person to live in American places like Winchester, Virginia? Not really. Only the local old family business elite and well-paid plant managers transferred here find such a place livable -- the former for their social status and the latter in the safe knowledge they will be transferred out someday. <br><br>Most of the rest of us stuck in Winchester are what used to be called the traditional working class. These days, when we are called anything at all, it is White Trash. Poor working whites, people with only a high school diploma, if that. Nationally we at least number a quarter of white U.S. workers, thirty five million in all by the government’s own shaved-down numbers. Nobody knows for sure in a nation that calls millions of $7-an-hour janitors and marginal people working “contract labor”, with no insurance or benefits, “independent businesspersons” and “entrepreneurs”. Small independent business people are, we are told, “the backbone of America’s economy.” If that is true, then it’s a sorry assed thing because we are talking here about citizens who bring down maybe 25-30K a year before taxes. With both spouses working. I told my freelance janitor friend Gator that he was the backbone of the American economy; he said he felt more like its asshole. <br><br>In any case, my people are not the people in the cubicle next to you at work (though they might well be cleaning it at nights when you are sleeping.) Mine are not people complaining about paying off their college loans or who got the best parking spot at their office campus complex. They are people with different problems entirely. Mostly related to truck payments. Or people like my old tree service boss Danny, who cut off a finger working with a chain saw, wrapped it in a McDonald’s foil wrapper and ran to the hospital to get it sewn back on. Or any of the thousands of people in this town who smash apples into apple sauce or boil them into vinegar at National Fruit Products, performing soul grinding shift work year after year with no opportunity to ever be promoted, or obtaining health care at all. Just the seasonal layoff when all the apples are smashed and the millions of gallons of vinegar bottled. Working class people going nowhere in a town that smells like vinegar. <br><br>One of the problems we working class Southerners have is that educated progressive Americans see us as a bunch of obese, heavily armed nose pickers. This problem is compounded by the fact that so many of us are pretty much that. Call it the “Dumb-crackers-lordee-I-reckon” syndrome. But liberals err in thinking this armed and drunken laboring species is an exclusively Southern breed. No matter where you live in this nation you will find us. We are the folks in front of you at the Wal-Mart checkout lugging a case of motor oil while having nicotine fits. But even in such democratic venues as shopping, our encounters are limited because we do not buy designer beer and you do not buy ammo or motor oil by the case.<br><br>And if we aren’t in the checkout line then we are probably waiting on you as clerks. With our bright red regulated vests and nametags we do not look poor or desperate. But I can tell you that the smiling, wise old guy in the orange vest in the plumbing department of the local Home Depot, Roy, the one who knows everything there ever was to know about plumbing, is limping around on bad knees with two bone grafted discs from a life as a construction laborer, and at age 67 is working solely so he can have health insurance. Not for insurance from Home Depot mind you, but so his entire paycheck can go to cover the private insurance he must have if he doesn’t want to lose the rundown bungalow he and his wife bought right after the Korean War to medical bills. The one that is now in such a bad neighborhood only the slumlords who dominate our city council ever make an offer, and even then not much. He’s been losing ground for 25 years. Not that any of the tanned middle class suburban customers here or anywhere else give a good goddam. This is solidly red state neo-con Virginia, where people have a ready explanation for Roy’s condition in life: As Jimbo the newsstand owner here says, “They are losers who cannot cut it in the greatest society on earth. Darwin was right. Gandhi was wrong. Tough shit!” This is the same guy who once advised me to “Always kick a man when he is down; it gives him incentive to get up.” I sometimes think it was the meanest thing in hell that made America’s little working class towns such as Winchester.<br><br><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>Paw, am I a paradox?</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><br>To be poor and white is a paradox in America. Whites, especially white males, are supposed to have an advantage they exploit mercilessly. Yet most of the poor people in the United States are white (51%) outnumbering blacks two to one and all other minority poverty groups combined. America is permeated with cultural myths about white skin’s association with power, education and opportunity. Capitalist society teaches that we all get what we deserve, so if a white man does not succeed, it can only be due to laziness. But just like black and Latino ghetto dwellers, poor laboring whites live within a dead end social construction that all but guarantees failure. If your high school dropout daddy busted his ass for small bucks and never read a book in his life and your mama was a textile mill worker, chances are you are not going to be recruited by Yale Skull and Bones and grow up to be president of the United States, regardless of our national mythology to that effect. You are going to be pulling an eight-buck-an-hour shift work someplace and praying for enough overtime to make the heating bill. A worker. <br><br>The political left once supported these workers, stood on the lines taking its beatings at the plant gates alongside them. Now, comfortably ensconced in the middle class, the American left sees the same working whites as warmongering bigots, happy pawns of the empire. That is writing working folks off too cheaply, and it begs the question of how they came to be that way -- if they truly are. To cast them as a source of our deep national political problems is ridiculous. They are a symptom of the problems, and they may be making it worse because they are easily manipulated, or because they cannot tell an original idea from a beer fart. But they are not the root cause by any means. The left should take its cues from Malcolm X, who understood the need to educate and inform the entire African-American society before tackling the goal of unity. Same goes for white crackers. Nobody said it would be easy. <br><br><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>Don’t laugh, you’re next!</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><br>Middle class liberals, or affluent conservatives for that matter, are hard put to understand poor white working class culture. With our guns, God and coarse noisy aesthetic, (let’s face it, NASCAR and Shania Twain?) we look like a lower species, a beery subset of some sort. The truth is that poor white working culture is not a subset of any other American class. It does not operate below the middle and upper classes, but parallel to them. Just as there are few ways out of it, there are few ways in. Its inhabitants are born here. The educated left cannot easily get inside. When it comes to access, liberal social academics are camels passing through the needle’s eye, though I’ve never met one who would admit it, or even knew that observing is not necessarily understanding. Consequently we find many books/studies focusing on ethnic minorities, but few credible ones about our defiant native homegrown poor. To my mind, it is impossible to be tenured and have street cred, but then I am just a prejudiced redneck prick from Winchester, Virginia, otherwise referred to as “Dickville”.<br><br>Yet this place from which and about which I write could be any of thousands of communities across the U.S. It is a parallel world created by an American system where caste and self-identity are determined by what one consumes, or cannot afford to consume, education and of course, the class into which one is born. Like most things American, it was about money from the get-go. The difference is that some of us have known this truth from birth and on brutal terms. For instance, few middle class Americans today ever sold newspapers on the street corner at age twelve to pay for school clothes or carried coal to a dirty living room stove all winter. I did both. They never sat down to a dinner of fried baloney and coffee after cold hours on the street corner. If this sounds like some Depression era sob story, let me say that it was in 1959-62. And right now I can find a hundred people in my neighborhood who did the same, or some kids still doing it (often Latino these days). My point being that there are and always have been a helluva lot of us know-nothing laboring sons out here, whether more fortunate Americans acknowledge our struggles or not. But they should. You see, it’s like this: When the heartless American system is done reducing us to slobbering beer soaked zombies in the American labor gulag, your sweet ass is next. <br><br><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>Everybody loves the Dalai Lama, but nobody loves po’ me!</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><br><br>Ain’t no wonder libs got no street cred. Ain’t no wonder a dope-addicted clown like Limbaugh can call libs elitists and make it stick. From where we stand, knee-deep in doctor bills and hoping the local Styrofoam peanut factory doesn’t cut the second shift, you ARE elite. Educated middle class liberals (and education is the main distinction between my marginal white people and, say, you) do not visit our kind of neighborhoods, even in their own towns. They drink at nicer bars, go to nicer churches and for the most part, live, as we said earlier, clustered in separate areas of the nation, mainly urban. Consequently, liberals are much more familiar with the social causes of immigrants, or even the plight of Tibet, than the bumper crop of homegrown native working folks who make up towns like Winchester. Liberal America loves the Dalai Lama but is revolted by life here in the land of the pot gut and the plumber’s butt. Can’t say as I blame them entirely, but then, that is why God created beer. To make ordinary life more attractive, or at least stomachable. <br><br>Whatever the case, helping the working poor does not mean writing another scholarly paper about them funded by grant money. That is simply taking care of one’s middle class university educated self. Yet the cause of dick-in-the-dirt poor working white America is spoken for exclusively by educated middle class people who grew up on the green suburban lawns of America. However learned and good intentioned, they are not equipped to grasp the full implications of the new American labor gulag -- or the old one for that matter. They cannot understand a career limited to yanking guts out through a chicken’s ass for the rest of one’s life down at the local poultry plant (assuming it does not move offshore). Being born working class carries moral and spiritual implications understood only through experiencing them. It comes back to street cred. <br><br>The Census Bureau keeps numbers on the working poor. Universities conduct studies and economists rattle off statistics. If studies and numbers alone could solve the problem of working poverty, then rip-off check cashing would not be one of the hottest franchises in the country and Manpower would not be our largest employer. Yes, and if a bullfrog had wings it wouldn’t bump its ass. Reason and social science are not cutting it, and numbers cannot describe the soul and character of a people. Those same ones who smell like an ashtray in the checkout line, devour a carton of Little Debbies at a sitting and praise Jesus for every goddam wretched little daily non-miracle. (If that last part does not make sense to you it simply proves my point about the secular liberal disconnect.) <br><br>A good start on healing this rift might be this: the next time those on the left encounter these seemingly self-screwing, stubborn, God-obsessed folks, maybe they can be open to their trials, understand the complexity of their situation, step forward and say, “Brother can I lend you a hand?” Surely it would make the ghosts of Joe Hill, Franklin Roosevelt and Mohandas Gandhi smile.<br><br><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>More crap about values</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><br><br>Before I am asked the more specific question, “What the fuck do you think middle class liberals should do then?” I’m gonna answer it. ORGANIZE! Quit voting for that pack of undead hacks called the Democratic Party and ORGANIZE! Howard Dean is just another millionaire Yale frat boy. ORGANIZE! Quit kidding yourself that the Empire will protect professionals and semi-professionals such as you and ORGANIZE! Spend time on a Pentecostal church pew or in a blue-collar beer joint and ORGANIZE! Join the Elks Club and ORGANIZE! Realize that there is no party whatsoever in the United States that represents anything but corporate interests and ORGANIZE! Start in your own honky wimp-assed white bread neighborhood and ORGANIZE! Knock on doors and ORGANIZE! Move heaven and earth and hearts and minds and ORGANIZE! And if enough people do it, it will scare the living piss out of the political elite and the corporations and they will come to club you down like they did in Miami and Seattle. But at least you will have been among the noble ones when the history is written.<br><br><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>There now. I’ve got it out of my system.</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> <br><br>Given that every damned utterance or word published about America these days has to have political implications and relevancy to the crooked 2004 elections, let’s talk about the much discussed political anger and “values issues” of hitherto faceless, self-screwing working class folks. Tell ya what. I have both prayed and been shit-faced six ways to hell with these people and I am NOT seeing the much ballyhooed anger about the values most often cited, such as gun control, abortion or gay marriage. True, these are the issues of the hard-line Bible thumpers and fundamentalist leadership that has harped on them for decades. And the politicians love that crap. And apparently so do the media pundits. <br><br>But here in this particular heartland, once I step away from the fundamentalist, I am simply not seeing the homophobia so widely proclaimed by the liberal establishment. Hell, we’ve got three gay guys and at least one lesbian who hang out at my local redneck tavern and they all are right in there drinking and teasing and jiving with everyone else. As my hirsute 300-pound friend Pootie says: “Heck, I have a lot in common with lesbians!” (I would concede however, that homosexual marriage, however, was just a bit too much for some of the working class to accept in the 2004 elections. It was the visuals.)<br><br>The working class people in my town are angry, but not especially angry at Queer Eye For the Straight Guy, or unseen fetuses. I think working class anger is at a more fundamental level and that it is about this: rank and status as citizens in our society. I think it is about the daily insult working class people suffer from employers, government (national, state and local), and from their more educated fellow Americans, the doctors, lawyers, journalists, academicians, and others who quietly disdain working people and their uncultured ways. And I think working class anger is about some other things too:<br><br><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>It is about the indignities suffered at the hands of managers and bosses -- being degraded to a working, faceless production unit in our glorious new global economy.<br><br>It is about being ignored by the educated classes and the other similar professional, political and business elites that America does not acknowledge as elites.<br><br>It is about one's priorities being closer to home and more ordinary than those of the powerful people who determine our lives.<br><br>It is about suffering the everyday lack of human respect from the government, and every other institutional body except the church.<br><br>It is about working at Wal-Mart or Home Depot or Arby’s wearing a nametag on which you do not even rate a last name. You are just Melanie or Bobby, there to kiss the manager’s ass or find another gig.<br><br>It is about trying to live your life the only way you know how because you were raised that way. But somehow the rules changed under you.<br><br>It is about trying to maintain some semblance of outward dignity to your neighbors, when both you and the neighbors are living payday to payday, though no one admits it.<br><br>It is about media fabled things you've never seen in your own family: college funds set aside for the kids, stock portfolios, vacation homes...<br><br>It is about the unacknowledged stress of both spouses working longer, producing more for a paycheck that has been dwindling in purchasing power since 1973.</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><br><br>Yes, it is about values. It is about the values we have forsaken as a people -- such as dignity, education and opportunity for everyone. And it is about the misdirected anger of the working classes toward those they least understand. You. And me.<br><br>By the way, the working people I am talking about are not entirely unhappy with life, just angry to a certain degree at this point (and bound to be angrier when the Bush regime finally runs the nation’s economy off the cliff). They simply resist change because for decades change has always spelled something bad -- 9/11, terrorism, job outsourcing -- always something bad headed toward worse.<br><br><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>Arise oh pissy liberals!</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><br><br>It is one helluva comment on the American class system that I get paid to speak, write about and generally expose to liberal groups the existence of some 250 million working Americans who have been fixing America’s cars and paving its streets and waiting on its tables from day one. As a noble and decent liberal New York City book editor told me, “Seen from up here it is as if your people were some sort of exotic, as if you were from Yemen or something.” <br><br>Jeesh!<br><br>This is not to berate educated liberal America -- well, OK, a little. But if liberal America has been somewhat too smug, my working class brethren have been downright water-on-the-brain stupid to be misled so easily by the likes of Karl Rove and the phony piety of George Bush. (And god dammit Pootie, Saddam did NOT attack the World Trade Center!) However, liberals and working people do need each other to survive what is surely coming, that thing being delivered to us by the regime which promised us they would “run this country like a business.” Oh hell yes they are going to do it. So the left must genuinely connect face to face with Americans who do not necessarily share all of our priorities, if it is ever to be relevant again. <br><br>Once we begin to look at the human faces of this declining republic’s many moving parts, the inexplicable self-screwing working class voter is not so inexplicable after all. God, gays and guns alone do not explain the conservative populism of the 2004 elections. College educated liberals and blue-collar working people need to start separating substantive policy issues from the symbolic ones. Fight on the substance, the real ground zero stuff that ordinary working people can feel and see -- make real pledges about real things. Like absolutely guaranteed health care and a decent living wage. And mean it and deliver it. <br><br>Who ho! It ain’t gonna be easy, because poor working class Americans, like the rest of us, have become fearful, numb, authority worshipping fools reluctant to give up the mindless heroin of cheap consumerism…just like you…just like me. They’ll never come to us, so we must go to them. Which means working the churches and the wards and the watering holes, the Kiwanis Pancake Breakfasts, our workplaces, and lo! Even the beeriest underbelly of America … where nice liberal middle class people do not let their kids go for fear it will damage their precious little SAT scores. Again, nobody said it would be easy. <br><br>Brotherhood. Solidarity. Compassion. Too idealistic? Futile? Maybe. But if these are not worthy goals, then nothing is. <br><br>Delivering on all this in a peaceful orderly fashion will be a bitch. So hard in fact that I do not much intend to participate. Fuck it. I’ve wanted an out and outright armed revolution ever since the November elections. But that’s another matter and the guy listening in from Homeland Security right now can go take a flying fuck. Write to me in Gitmo, y’all! Just address it to “Joe from Yemen.” <br><br>Joe Bageant is a magazine editor and writer living in Winchester Virginia. He may be contacted at: bageantjb@netscape.net. Copyright © 2005 by Joe Bageant.<br> <br><br><br><br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: A Guide to the White Trash Planet for Urban Liberals

Postby eric144 » Mon Nov 14, 2005 9:32 pm

Amazing article, from the outside you would have no idea there was such a thing as a working class American. Ralph Schoneman talks about American class politics, I've never heard anyone else doing it.<br><br>It's a clever trick to make the majority of citizens disappear and have absolutely no voice at all. Taxation without representation springs to mind.<br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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The American Working Class

Postby robertdreed » Tue Nov 15, 2005 7:12 am

Ironically, although I agree with much of the article posted above, I still think it lays on the dumb-working-class-hick stereotype too much. Baegent is trying too hard...<br><br>or maybe not, who knows? I just relocated back to Virginia a few days ago...I'll have to drop in on Winchester one of these days again, haven't been there since about 1980. <br><br>The working class folk I knew in California ( yeah, I was one, but in terms of class it's usually more about who your folks were, and I grew up as that weird but not that uncommon variant, the scion of the middle of the middle class of a military socialist sociocultural milieu ~ adjunct to the prevailing economic system of the post-WW2 USA, corporatism )- well, many of them are up on health foods, the antisocial nature of sposual abuse, and not being dumber than a box of rocks about the moral character of the Republican Party. Although believe me, there are exceptions, and being in touch with one of those notions doesn't guarantee that the switches are turned on in terms of the others. <br><br>Still, I mean, that guy makes it sound like working class people are the sort of folks who all clean their windshields with the spittle from their tobacco chaw. And all that line does is give excuses to well-off educated liberal middle class folks for keeping their windows rolled up when they drive through working class neighborhoods and rural outposts like Winchester, Va. (which I in fact seem to recall as hosting upscale homes and mini-estates for go-getter DC-area commuters to the DC area as far back as 25 years ago.) I don't get feeding the knuckle-dragger image. <br><br>As it happens, I'm still fond of recommending educational vacations on occasion to well-off students and affluent young people that I encounter, looking for enriching experiences- I tell them to do something like move to Omaha Nebraska, and work somewhere like a drugstore for at least, like, four months, although a full year is best...no question that vagabonding from Lisbon to Vienna would be more fun, but to get a truly psychedelic experience with lasting impact, you have to think outside the box. <br><br>Someone posted that great essay by the protege of the prefab "meritocracy" that gets set up at elite schools like Princeton...he didn't get what he expected, but it did take him outside of the box. <br><br>Conversely, if one is part of the affluent American elite, the best way to do that is to take my advice. Do something unglamorous, putting yourself in a place where you're no better than anyone else. Because slumming in Harlem to score heroin doesn't cut it...that doesn't even make it as "daring." It's a cliche. It's a phony hermeneutic. <p></p><i></i>
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Here's to ezboard...

Postby robertdreed » Tue Nov 15, 2005 7:17 am

For forgetting my name, and rendering it impossible for me to edit my last post...<br><br>and for telling me to fill in missing fields that weren't missing, earlier on, in my previewed post. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Here's to ezboard...

Postby eric144 » Tue Nov 15, 2005 10:16 am

I left a well paid middle class jib but I don't want to go back there. I don't want to be working class and get treated (even more) like dirt either. It was interesting as a student, not any more.<br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Poor, White and pissed.

Postby slimmouse » Tue Nov 15, 2005 12:46 pm

<br> Great article Gouda. Moving - profoundly so. Fuck me, there must be something we can do !<br><br> Thanks for that. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: AnnaLivia, I love you

Postby Pants Elk » Tue Nov 15, 2005 1:06 pm

Group hug, everybody! <p></p><i></i>
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will have to break this into more than one post?

Postby AnnaLivia » Tue Nov 15, 2005 2:15 pm

Sorry I disappeared. My damn painful condition took me completely out of action again last night, but meds are working now, so back to it. Here’s what I told sunny I’d post, and some comments, and responses to you guys from me at the end. (I have identified my own interruptions within the article itself, within parentheses.) This is from Conceptual Guerilla’s site, and he’s talking about YOU, dear posters, and your unique power. This piece certainly DOES relate to what we’re discussing about America and Americans, but we’ll get more “directly” back to the gist of this thread at the end, you’ll see:<br><br><br>CG says:<br>You may not have realized this, but you are looking at the "political engine" that will change the world. I don't mean this site, in particular -- though I would certainly love a place at the table in that process. I mean the "blogosphere," in general. I'm not sure that very many people realize just how powerful, how culturally transforming, this media could become.<br><br>snip <br><br>That's right, folks, the "business press" has noticed you, they don't much like you, and here's the best part. There's nothing they can do about you. Indeed, the so-called "mainstream media" has also taken notice -- occasionally conducting conferences on "blogger ethics." It seems we're "irresponsible," and lack "journalistic standards." <br><br>All of which is complete hogwash. Consider the latest example of "journalistic standards" as practiced by Chris Matthews on MSNBC.<br><br>(ALP: Snip out a buncha stuff about Chris M doing some “faux outrage” “reporting”)<br><br>This sorry excuse for reporting by Chris Matthews points to an ugly truth just dawning on the majority of Americans, in the wake of the Plamegate scandal. The mainstream media has failed this country. Scooter Libby -- possibly along with Karl Rove and maybe even Dick Cheney, himself -- spoon fed the leak of Plame's identity to Judith Miller, Robert Novak and the rest of the MSM, who dutifully reported it to the public. Being the "responsible jounalists" that they are, they failed to notice the politically motivated animosity behind the leak.<br><br>Snip<br><br>The blogosphere was all over that story, the second it broke in July, 2003. The mainstream media didn't pick it up until September -- and indeed they picked it up from the blogosphere. And remember, they were the one's reporting the original story. The blogosphere detected the politics of the story. The MSM blithely ignored that part. In fact, bloggers noticed the "big lie" about yellowcake, the day after the President's State of the Union message. Again, it was September before the alleged "professionals" in the MSM caught up with the "amateurs." <br><br>The whole "drumbeat for war" pumped out daily by the Bush administration, was dutifully passed along by the MSM, with nary a "fact check" forthcoming. Judith Miller's role as a mouthpiece for the administration regarding weapons of mass destruction is well documented -- so much so that the New York Times issued an "apology" for her for piss poor reporting. In fact, we didn't simply march off to a needless war because of the White House's PR operation. We marched off to a needless war, because the mainstream media aided and abetted that PR operation -- instead of asking the hard questions, and digging for the true facts, the way they claim to do. <br><br>Then they have the nerve to question the "responsibility" of the citizen bloggers who called them to account. The problem isn't "irresponsible bloggers." It's irresponsible journalists and their editors -- not those pesky "amateurs" who expose the deficiencies of those "professional" jounalists, such as they are. That's their real problem. People are looking over their shoulder. Citizens on the internet are "paying attention to that man behind the curtain," instead of being dutifully impressed with the smoke and flames of the wizard's theatrics.<br><br>Take it to the bank Mr. Matthews and Forbes Magazine; bloggers are a problem -- for you. You're going to have to start doing your job, because we will surely do it for you. And again, you can bitch and moan about it until you are old. The internet genie isn't going back in the bottle. It's a new world of citizen "fact checkers," and they will burn your ass the next time a Judith Miller slouches into the newsroom with some crock of bullshit from the likes of Chalabi and Dick Cheney. <br><br>Meanwhile, the more people get who get "wired" into the blogosphere, the more people will realize just what a narrow, distorted picture of the public's business they have been getting from the mainstream media. Which brings us to the "point of departure" in understanding the revolutionary impact of the blogosphere. The internet is much more than an extension of your telephone, mailbox and TV set. It is a new medium, with its own unique characteristics. It is a technological change on a par with the automobile or the printing press in its capability to fundamentally transform our culture. It isn't any particular individual's effort that will do this. It is the nature of the medium itself -- something many of us are only just beginning to become aware of.<br><br>Let us start with a fairly regular complaint about average American citizens. They are profoundly ignorant, and grossly uninformed about the world they live in. Well-informed and well-educated Americans are painfully aware of the cultural milieu in which they exist. It is as if average middle class Americans live in Disneyland. They believe in the image of "heroic America," for example -- the one that saved Europe from Nazism and rebuilt it with the Marshall plan. They are blissfully unaware of all of the history of US foreign policy in the ensuing sixty years. <br><br>They are utterly unaware of a long list of democratically elected regimes toppled by the US government, from Iran in 1953, to Guatemala, to Brazil, to the Dominican Republic, to Chile, right up to current efforts against the elected government of Venezuela. Most Americans can't tell you what "IMF" stands for -- "International Monetary Fund, for those internet "newbies" who don't know -- let alone what it does. Basically, the IMF is majority owned by the US government, and dictates domestic policy in other supposedly sovereign nations, on matters like public infrastructure, social spending, and labor unions. What they dictate are "business friendly" policies that ruin domestic economies, and mire them in "McKinley era" squalor. See Argentina for a perfect example of how the IMF beggars developing nations. Middle class Americans know nothing of this. They just know how we beat the Nazi's and rebuilt Europe -- blissfully ignorant of the fact that the US government ruthlessly squashes any effort in the third world to create the kind of social democratic economies that exist in Europe, and used to exist here, before the "Reagan revolution" started beggaring our own working people.<br><br>How did Americans get to be so god damned ignorant? One word. Television -- another culture-creating technology. Here's a little research project for you. Go read some of Alexis DeToqueville's "Democracy in America." While you're at it, read a few of the numerous speeches delivered by Abraham Lincoln in the late 1850's, just before his election as President. Or how about checking out some of the pamphlets, leaflets, newspapers and other assorted "literature" from the early history of the US. If you think politics is "down and dirty" today, you will be in for a surprise. The founding fathers practiced "take no prisoners" rhetoric. It wasn't all "low brow," either. Lincoln's speeches -- at the Cooper Union in New York, for example -- were published in full in the newspapers. People read, largely because there wasn't much else to do, except hang around the saloon. There wasn't a boob tube at the saloon, either. In the age before television and radio, vigorous debate -- and I mean vigorous -- was one of the things people did in the saloons. Instead of vegetating in front of the blue tit, people headed out for a drink, and argued politics -- creating the huge irony that in the years before the so-called "information age" Americans may well have been better informed. <br><br>Not only did you know what was in the paper, you knew what your neighbors thought about it -- including neighbors who didn't necessarily see things the same way you did. Oh, and what you saw in "the papers" would be more accurate. There were lots of them -- competing with each other. In fact, the word "press" as it is used in the first amendment meant literally, the printing press. The "press" was any asshole who owned one. While a printing press is somewhat of a "big ticket" item, it was not beyond the means of plenty of ordinary citizens -- who used their presses to speak their minds. A television station on the other hand, is another kettle of fish. There are only a finite number of available frequencies for one thing, and the capital requirements for your own TV station run into the tens of millions of dollars. There aren't very many people in your town with that kind of jack. <br><br>As for the "press" today, it quit meaning "ordinary citizens" over a hundred years ago, when Joseph Pulitzer and William Randolph Hearst turned the newspaper business into "big business." <br><br>Snip<br><br>Television is even worse. Starting with the economics of it, you're talking tens of millions of dollars to set up your "microphone." You're talking about the necessity for a large technical support crew to run the thing -- people who have to eat. It is a recipe for being beholden to the advertising dollar, in a medium where advertising is necessarily expensive. In short, "newspapers of record" and television are the medium of corporate oligarchy, not democracy.<br><br>To further illustrate this, let's consider the actual nature of the medium. Television is a passive medium. It is linear for one thing and time bound for another. Though "Tivo" is changing that somewhat, it can only go so far. A program has a beginning and an end. You can't jump around, or at least not conveniently. And here's the thing. Nobody wants to jump around. They don't want to "fiddle" with it. They want to turn it on, recline under its blue glow and "absorb" their news and entertainment. Television does not engage the viewer, it pacifies him. <br><br>It doesn't necessarily have to be that way. Certain famous television shows -- The Twilight Zone and Star Trek, for the two best known examples -- did what good theatre is supposed to do, engaging people's minds and imaginations. Network executives didn't like those shows. "Too cerebral" they said. Right, that's why they have cult followings who watch them to this day -- generating many millions in advertising revenue for their syndicators. What those executives really meant was, "we don't want people thinking." Instead, they want them passively ‘receiving' the messages of their advertisers. Because really, "critical thinking" is poison to Madison Avenue. Since Madison Avenue is paying for your television entertainment, they want that entertainment to compliment their advertising, not undermine it. <br><br>The result is that American television is the most banal, stultifying cultural shit ever devised by the mind of man. It exists to sell Budweiser -- the blandest, sorriest excuse for beer ever devised by the mind of man. It exists to serve consumers -- not citizens -- in a "one size fits all" marketplace, where the goal is to sell millions of mass-produced copies of mediocrity. It is a medium of standardized products, and it needs standardized minds. Imagination and creativity have no place in the corporate workplace, the corporate marketplace, and therefore, they have no place in the TV production studio -- with one noteworthy exception. Television programming is so bad, and the mush minds of "Disneyland Americans" so inured to the "blue light," that advertising is the last refuge of American creativity, to the point that the commercials are getting better than the programs, which isn't saying much.<br><br>This is where our "Disneyland culture" comes from. It is a corporate mass-produced commodity, like every individual product it sells. Television created it. Television lulls the American working person to sleep every night, telling him fairytales about "heroic America," and carefully keeping any fact, any opinion, any point of view, any concept away from him that might cause some of his unused synapses to spring to life. All Disneyland Americans have to do is turn on the box, and find out what a wonderful land this is, and what wonderful corporate employers they have, and what wonderful mass produced products they can buy. Oh, and it also ladles out a heaping helping of irrational fear, oh and what awful "non-Disney approved" people are out there lurking. <br><br>Television does something else even worse. It isolates people. Corporate America has a propaganda pipeline straight into your living room. The more you "tune in" to the commercial messages, and to the frames and memes of the corporate media, the less you listen to your neighbors. Even if you see something on TV you don't like, what can you do about it? Talk back to your TV screen? In fact, many Americans do just that, only to hear their spouses say, "he can't hear you." And he can't. The talking head -- talking to you -- is in a windowless studio somewhere. He's talking to you, but he doesn't know you exist, and worse, he doesn't care. <br><br>Television creates more than mere "passivity," it creates "learned helplessness." It tells you about an "objective reality" that is no such thing. That reality is simply the editorial decisions of people just like you -- listening to their corporate paymasters, just like you. But they don't present themselves that way. They present their images as "reality," and teach you that your experience, your insight, your research, and your point of view are all worthless. It shows you other people who believe in their Disneyland reality, subtly suggesting that you must be "crazy" if you aren't happy in the cultural wasteland presented on television. Since you haven't had a meaningful conversation with your neighbors in years, if not decades, you assume that they must be "believers," and there must be something wrong with you, if you aren't. That's why Americans don't talk to each other anymore, except to the extent that they talk about what's on TV. Best not to let anyone know that you have "strange ideas" that aren't on TV. Your neighbors might think you a heretic, or something. Or more likely, they will think you are one of the "bogeymen," the news readers caution you to fear on a regular basis. Thanks to the media, Americans now fear their neighbors -- who they never get to know, aggravating the problem -- further reinforcing their isolation.<br><br>Then, about ten years ago, that started to change. Something really unexpected happened in Disneyland. We call it the "world wide web." The first thing you learn in this new medium is something really eye opening. For some, it might be disturbing. There is much more to reality than what is on TV. Not only are there other points of view, other stories not being told, and other opinions, they are held by educated, respectable, intelligent people. The web is a world where people talk to each other. The first thing they learn is that they are not isolated "weirdos" because they don't believe what they see on television. The second thing they learn is the awesome power of their own voice.<br><br>You can't talk back to your TV. You can barely talk back to your newspaper -- writing them "snail mail" letters, they might publish if your point of view matches the frame for the debate they have chosen. On the internet, you can talk back to everybody. In fact, web designers are learning a really interesting lesson these days. Blogs and other sites that have "comments" get more traffic than those that don't. People don't just want to hear from other people, they want to talk back. They want to be heard. That is why the size of the blogosphere doubles every year. <br><br>Television and newspapers give you "canned" news, information and opinion. They give you "McKnowledge." The blogosphere is a gourmet buffet. If there is a "marketplace of ideas" you can find it on the internet, not on your TV, and not in your newspaper. I open the op/ed page of my local newspaper from time to time. I just can't believe what I see there. A whole lot of nothing is what I see. Bland, "safe" opinions, on the narrow facts that are acceptable to the nation's editors. Online I get the full spectrum of human opinion, from neonazi skinheads to Maoists, and everybody in between. I see facts -- backed up by solid research, and documentation -- mainstream news reporters never seem to learn about. I get to see television talking heads -- like Chris Matthews in the example I started with -- cut down to size. <br><br>Image mongering was what he was giving us, not rigorous reporting of the true facts. It was the blogosphere that let the air out of his balloon. Here's the other neat thing. It isn't bloggers whose "irresponsibility" is the problem. We police each other, as much as we police Chris Matthews. Remember, in this medium, people talk back. You post up some bullshit, you'll get called on it. It doesn't take long either. Drudge was the source of Matthews' bilge. Progressive bloggers ripped him a new asshole -- with the actual memo in question -- and they did it in a matter of hours.<br><br>But wait, there's more.<br><br>(ALP: 2nd post coming right up)<br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: will have to break this into more than one post?

Postby AnnaLivia » Tue Nov 15, 2005 2:21 pm

continuing CG:<br><br>Ultimately, that speed of response itself is why cybernews will simply out-compete the traditional media. Your local newspaper is already obsolete. By the time it shows up on your doorstep in the mornings, it's stories are old. I keep up with the news in "real time." Fact checking and counter-spin occur in real time. It takes traditional news organizations weeks and months to catch up to where bloggers are in a matter of hours. You see, they have limited numbers of people to chase down stories. We have millions of people, who fact check and counter-spin for fun. The mainstream media can't possibly match the blogosphere in terms of speed or even accuracy. Oh, none of us individually are necessarily any more accurate than anyone else -- and there are plenty of charlatans and hucksters on the internet, you can believe it. But we fact check and challenge each other -- in "real time." <br><br>In other words, to stay relevant, news organizations are not going to be able to fight us, and they're not going to be able to match us. They're going to have to learn how to make use of us, or they are going to risk extinction. In fact, a new kind of "news organization" may emerge. "Reporters" may be obsolete -- with "citizen journalists" gathering the facts, much faster and more thoroughly than "professional reporters." News organizations may become editorial organizations -- synthesizing the raw data generated by citizens and communicated in blog-land. The new paradigm for the "media professional" will not be that of a "reporter" uncovering the facts. Many of those facts will come from citizens, or straight from the eyewitnesses. The media professional will be the guy who turns the facts into a "story," -- a narrative, rigorously challenged and debated. <br><br>As for the rightwing media wurlitzer, that's where we have some really good news. Their propaganda machine doesn't work in this medium. The nature of their propaganda machine is "media manipulation" -- using the characteristics of the media. They learned to do this as they built their organization, following the defeat of Barry Goldwater in 1964. Their techniques are quite simple, once you know how to spot them. Images, sound bites, and slogans -- repeated ad nauseum -- are the mainstays of rightwing political activism. Their slogans and catch phrases -- "less government," "lower taxes," "family values" and "personal responsibility" -- should be well familiar, since every Republican activist makes it his business to insert them into the public conversation every chance he gets. Every rightwing letter you read in your local paper usually contains one or more of these "soundbite" themes. <br><br>That propaganda machine uses and exploits the very weaknesses in traditional news organizations that make those organizations uncompetitive with the blogosphere. News organizations have limited staffs and limited resources. They love the "soundbite journalism" the rightwing specializes in, because it’s cheap and easy. A reporter has only so many hours in the day to do his job. When some rightwing shill offers prepackaged facts and "framing," journalists snap them right up. It saves them a lot of shoe leather, you see. <br><br>Bloggers have the same twenty-four hour day as traditional reporters. But there are millions of us -- helping each other, backing each other up, checking each other's facts, alerting each other to facts we may have missed. In other words, the blogosphere can't be seduced with the kind of misleading, distorted picture rightwing activists regularly feed the traditional media. For proof, just look at the "drumbeat to war" that seized the traditional media. That "drumbeat" never took root here. We saw through it from the beginning. <br><br>The rightwing propaganda effort is tailored to a media environment where people are barely paying attention. Their television commercials, for example, are not designed to be watched, let alone studied. They are designed to be "heard," while you're in the kitchen with the TV playing in the background. The same with the soundbites and slogans of their talking heads. They don't communicate in complete sentences. They use words and phrases, designed to drift into people's consciousness, no matter how vegetative or distracted they are, while the TV is playing. And remember, you can't talk back. Even if you hear a phrase or a reported "fact" that doesn't quite ring true, no one is around to flesh out exactly how your pocket is being picked.<br><br>Things are different online. You can talk back, so can other people, and you can hear their response. Television messages beam into your living room, where you receive them alone. The internet brings the voice of other people just like you into your home. Not only do you hear the "canned message," you hear the reaction. You get the "reality check" to which bloggers submit those slogans. If you hear "less government" for example, you can find your way right here, and read my deconstruction of that phrase <!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.conceptualguerilla.com/l...sgovernment.htm">www.conceptualguerilla.co...rnment.htm</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--> -- it means "less government for the rich, not you." <br><br>Just look at the difference between conservative and progressive forums and blogs. Go to Free Republic, log in and post an objection to any of the horseshit they post over there. Watch how fast you get banned, and your post deleted. Now go to my forum [old forum, soon to be replaced by a new blog/forum]. I'll take on anybody. I don't even require you to register. Only one right-winger has ever stayed more than a few weeks. They come in and I mow ‘em down. Here lately, the crew that hangs out with me pretty much handles them. <br><br>So ineffective are rightwing operatives in cyberspace, that over the past five or six months I have noticed a change in their tactics. They have pretty much quit arguing, head to head. Now they do things like "griefing," and masquerading as progressives.<br><br>(ALP: and here I snipped what I consider an insulting line about “conspiracy theories” WHICH IS MY BIG BEEF WITH THIS GUY who otherwise gets it right so much of the time. Enough about that for now.)<br><br>That doesn't work either. Remember, the internet is not friendly to "flabby" thinking, poor research and general hysteria. There are too many people to run stories down. Conspiracy theories don't hold up under the scrutiny, or at least the bullshit theories don't. The one's that hold water, won't die. (ALP: he saves himself somewhat there) The General Accounting Office, for example, just released a report giving credence to reports of the porous security in electronic voting machines. <br><br>Take a look at Newsmax, perhaps the largest rightwing news outlet on the net. What a piece of shit that place is. It is basically the latest news about Hillary and Ted Kennedy. If you want news about Scalito's judicial record, or Plamegate, or the latest Bush crony to "screw the pooch," don't go to Newsmax. They don't report any bad news about Republicans -- which seems to be the only news there is these days. The quality of online journalism is so poor at Newsmax, nobody outside of the far right pays the least bit of attention to them. The rightwing propaganda machine works on television. It is irrelevant in the blogosphere -- except to the extent that bloggers debunk what the rightwing does on television.<br><br>Maybe you have underestimated the influence of the progressive blogosphere -- or at least its potential. I am keenly aware that many progressives lament the lack of meaningful opposition to the Bush administration, and we are correct to a point. Until yesterday -- when Harry Reid, the Senate's Democratic leader forced the Republican Senate to move forward in its investigation of the Bush Administration's manipulation of intelligence -- we saw little evidence of any backbone from Congressional Democrats. We already know all about how the mainstream media has failed. But opposition to Dubya and his corrosive agenda is alive and well, right here in blogland. We online dissidents have a number of little appreciated, but fundamental strengths. <br><br><br>We are millions of people.<br><br><br>We are vocal.<br><br><br>We are intelligent, well informed and articulate.<br><br><br>We talk to each other, and therefore...<br><br><br>We know we're not alone.<br><br><br>As for our influence, progressive blogs are where the Plamegate story originated. The media picked it up from us. It took them weeks to discover what we knew within hours, but they got there. Certain facts are now mantras in the mainstream media, starting with the now "conventional wisdom" that there was no connection between Iraq and the 9/11 attacks. The administration did its level best to continually "suggest" -- soundbite fashion -- the opposite. We wouldn't let them get away with it, and we harped on that fact -- and continue to do so -- until that simple, strategic fact has seeped into the nation’s consciousness. If people are waking up to the fact that the war in Iraq is a sham, it is because we, in what <!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.bartcop.com">www.bartcop.com</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--> Bartcop calls the "internet resistance" have known it from the beginning, and pounded the point home ceaselessly.<br><br>In short, this is our medium. The soundbite, image driven, one way communication paradigm of television belongs to the propagandists from Madison Avenue to the White House. The detail oriented, vigorously fact checked, two-way interactive paradigm of the blogosphere belongs to us. The internet may yet eclipse what Justice Louis Brandeis said of cross-examination. The internet may yet become "the greatest engine for the discovery of the truth." <br><br>The Forbes magazine article demonstrates that corporate America knows this, and more importantly, fears it. When America finally and forever turns its back on corporate feudalism, and relearns the culture of democracy we invented early in our history, it will start right here in cyberspace. In fact, it already has. As for the cheap labor conservatives<br><br>(ALP: I don’t use ‘conservatives’, I use ‘predators’ because I don’t see anything wrong with conserving…plus we’re trying to build the biggest tent possible to gain a majority and plenty of true conservatives are as fed up with bushco as we are. I’ve tried to tell this guy that, AHEM!)<br><br>…they are realizing the threat the "internet resistance" poses to their oligarchic, social-darwinian agenda. They are too late. With 150 million Americans online, tens of millions of bloggers, tens of millions more Americans establishing online communities, the genie is out of the bottle. Democracy is happening again in America -- right here in cyberspace. More importantly it is leaking into offline communities and into the offline media. It will transform this country, destroying the televised mass culture corporate America thrives on. <br><br>We can help that process along. We have developed this medium, and seen a glimpse of its potential power. Now it is time to master the medium -- while we have the field to ourselves, while the rightwing is still figuring out just how dangerous we are to them, and before they get their "legs" in this medium and learn how to counterattack -- and counterattack they surely will. <br><br>Beginning in just a few short weeks, this website (ALP: www.conceptualguerilla.com ) will become a "test bed" for mastering this medium. With the help of some new friends, we will attempt to develop "the next level" in online citizen journalism. Digging up the facts is being done -- and done well. Fact checking, and the rigorous scrutiny of the online "vetting" process are inherent in the naturally collaborative effort of blogging. The next stage is "synthesis," moving from the "raw facts" and turning them into a meaningful narrative. However tentative the effort, that's what I was doing in my original essay "Defeat the Right in Three Minutes" -- turning the apparent contradictions of rightwing propaganda into a meaningful whole. <br><br>We are going to be doing a lot more of that -- working in the "daily story" as it develops. With our new blog/forum interface -- the most versatile, interactive and "surf friendly" I have seen anywhere -- we will be inviting every progressive to join us in this effort. The software interface is being developed as we speak. We are taking our time to get it right, so it will still be two or three weeks until its ready. In the meantime, I will be posting long essays like this one, to familiarize you with our new project, how you can join in, and why you need to.<br><br>So stay tuned. Big things are going to be happening around here.<br><br><br><br>ALP again: End his post. I’ll furnish details on this new plan of action he’s talking about, if anybody in here wants them. Or, you can go to his current forum and read around there.<br><br>I’ve said before I have some differences with this guy. I haven’t met him, but we have spoken on the phone a few times. Basically, I think he over-emphasizes what I’ll call the “macho-alpha-male-warrior” side of things, and is not nearly appreciative enough of the “female nurturing” side of things…and I think there’s a loss of wisdom in losing that “yin-yang” balance. Also, he just won’t seem to “go there” on “conspiracy theories”, and so, in my opinion, he’s never going to explore, say, the deepdark nastiness of what we here know about the “hidden secrets” of the highest-level predators…SRA, etc. Yes, it’s the old “don’t go there or you’ll hurt the cause” that some of you find at DU and Dkos. (I don’t go to those sites and never have, except when you guys have sent me there to read.)<br><br>And, like robertdreed said about Bageant (oh yes, bless you again, Gouda! I loved that article a lot!), but agree with robert’s comment that I think he over-simplifies and over-emphasizes the “beer-swilling” red-neck description of working Joe’s somewhat.<br><br>To kornholio: the article eric posted riles me exactly because just look at how the guy points out everything wrong the PTB have done and do, then he brings the blame back on the people who are NOT the architects of this mad cowboy-cronyism-corporate-cabal-capitalism! That’s just so bloody disingenuous! Is it intentional, or is he just stupid? I dunno, but it’s one of a million things written that misses the point and offers no solutions, just ridicule. I say fuck that shit and there’s way too much of it out there. I’ll take Joe Bageant over that first schmuck, anytime. JOE talked about symptoms and causes. He was spot-on there, for sure.<br><br>To eric: maybe you oughta stuff a sock in your yaphole and listen up for awhile instead. You might learn a thing or two, mr. “teacher”. Your comment about how, from the outside you’d think workingclass Americans didn’t exist, was flipping revealing indeed. Sonnyboy, you’re TALKING to …nay, lecturing to… a real live, bona-fidy workingclass American who has done some of the hardest factory work there is, the dirtiest plumbing work there is (have YOU ever replaced old toilets and scraped up the filthy ancient wax rings?!?), the heaviest construction work (YOU ever roofed a house or cut concrete with a wetsaw?), the most dangerous work (YOU ever been exposed to warehouses of cancer-causing chemicals?), the most un-valued work (YOU ever been the drive-through-window person at the fast-food joint?) and that’s just for starters. YOU ever watched corporatist greedheads deprive the breadwinner of the job he did so well, and been his only source of moral support when he couldn’t figure out what the hell happened because he played by the rules, excelling always? You ever had your healthcare taken away, never to return? You ever had to sell your grandma’s meager treasures to pay an electric bill? YOU ever GONE TO BED HUNGRY so’s your kids could eat? And did you visit old ladies you didn’t even know in nursing homes through it all? Well, ANNA HAS. With never a dime of “welfare”, either. Investments? Assets? Anna has got herself a high-school edumacation, two great kids with IQ’s of 150 and 165, is TOTALLY clued-in, and I can assure you that we workingclass Americans sure as hell ain’t invisible to ourselves, bozobrain.<br><br>I’ll end here. In a minute. It’s time for more pain meds. Fortunately for me, the one I can afford is available without seeing a doctor, and it works, though I have to take mega-doses…which means I’m ruining my kidneys, know it but have no choice, which means I am never going to BE an old woman which explains why I have to get this fix-my-country shit done NOW while I’m still here. My medicine is called ibuprofen, and I sure as shit didn’t buy it at fucking Wal-mart, because I have refused to shop there for many years. When I tell people that, they don’t ask why I don’t shop at wallyworld, they ask HOW I don’t shop at wallyworld…<br><br>And I tell ‘em it’s because I know better than to slit my own throat.<br><br>Though…you’re also talking at an attempted-suicide survivor. Imagine that, with MY history. AND THAT TAUGHT ME THE USELESSNESS AND HARM OF DESPAIRING AND BEATING OURSELVES UP IN THE EFFORT TO CREATE CHANGE.<br><br>Yeah, eric, you can kiss my rosy-red AMERICAN, Thomas Jefferson-loving buttcheeks, and shove your intellectual laziness where the sun don’t shine, since you ain’t willing to learn one damn thing, pinhead.<br><br>I ain’t WAITING for Tom Jefferson and Benny Franklin. I AM tom goddam fucking Jefferson and B. Franklin!<br><br>To others: One of these days I’m gonna get into the fact that there was a great republic on these shores before our Euro-Afro-Asian ancestors ever got here, and THAT republic was where a lot of our best ideas for American government came from…<br> <p></p><i></i>
AnnaLivia
 
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