Gunther Karl Russbacher dies

by **Dreams End** » Thu Aug 11, 2005 1:49 am

I'm not a follower of "Rumor Mill News" but I just went there. The founder, Gunther Karl Russbacher died 2 days ago, announces the front page. No information on his death is provided. <a href="http://www.rumormillnews.com/">www.rumormillnews.com/</a> The only note from his wife and cofounder of RMN is this: <blockquote>Quote:<hr>I believe open war has broken out between the two Factions. I suspect we will soon hear of more deaths.<hr></blockquote> Here's their take on the "factions" <blockquote>Quote:<hr>Faction One is the New World Order, made up of the International bankers, the 300 un-named families who also own our Federal Reserve Banking System. These families are descended ideologically AND biologically from the Rothschild funded Illuminati. Faction One also created the Corporations. Corporations were created by the King of England who was owned and controlled by the Rothschilds. Faction Two is descended from the King of Bavaria, the Knights Templars and the German Abwher. Faction Two was created by men whose countries had been destroyed by the New World Order. In 1776, the King of Bavaria blew the whistle on the planned take-over of the monarchies of Europe by the Illuminati/Rotschilds. As a a result, the NWO, which expected to go "online" in 1776, had to retreat to the shadows and build up their strength for their "next planned world-takeover". <hr></blockquote> Russbacher evidently claims that he was the pilot who flew GHW Bush to Paris for the Iran hostage/October surprise deal. He has spent a LOT of time in prison and may just be a con man for all I know. Still, one more death to add to the growing list of causes for "unease". Anyone know the deal on Russbacher? Actually, looking over his site, it seems like a con to me...claims to have been number 3 in CIA, I don't know. Check it out and let me know about this guy. Here's his an autobiographical article: <a href="http://www.rumormillnews.com/raven1.htm">www.rumormillnews.com/raven1.htm</a>

by **Rigorous Intuition** » Thu Aug 11, 2005 2:30 am

but I have a similar feeling about Russbacher as I do about Delmart Vreeland: a con man, but one of use to the spooks. Russbacher's extravagant claims about October Surprise became the story for those who wanted to discredit it, as did Vreeland's early on re 9/11. Whether their claims were true, in whole or in part (as I know Vreeland's was), was beside the point. It was enough they were disreputable rogues, and anyone who listened to them was either a sucker or crazy (as David Corn would say). Edited by: <A HREF=http://p097.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=rigorousintuition>Rigorous Intuition</A> at: 8/11/05 12:31 am

by **hcu** » Thu Aug 11, 2005 3:42 am

Russbacher's "revelations" figure heavily in Rodney Stich's book Defrauding America, a huge compendium of Atich's list of alleged American scandals that weave together everything from his divorce proceedings CIA-connected drug smuggling and the October Surprise, and who knows what else...I haven't read the book in years. When I first encountered the book, my Bullshit Detector wasn't as acutely sensitive as it is now...having read a modicum of material from much more credible and reputable sources like Al McCoy and R.T. Naylor, I was hungry to know more about how deep the rot went, in terms of corruption in the USA. Later- perhaps a year or so affter I read it- I concluded that Stich's book consisted largely of material that could be found in accurate detail from earlier authors, mixed together with stemwinders and whoppers that implicated, for instance, a huge fraction of the judges sitting on the bench in American civic, bankruptcy, and criminal courtrooms, en masse- thousands and thousands of them... I was also somewhat disconcerted by Stich's claims to be bankrupt and destitute, while providing a photo of himself outside of his Alamo, California home, with his private airstrip in the background. Considering his claims of being criminally harvested for finanical gain by corrupt divorce and bankruptcy courts, he seemed to have rebounded rather well. (I believe he's now deceased.) Wherever as webstie features Stich's book is sold as a goldmine of revelations, I'm suspicious...have they read it?

by **robertdreed** » Thu Aug 11, 2005 3:59 am

"hcu" was me, above...I logged in using the wrong screen name, one that I've used on other boards...and now my typos are set in stone, so to speak.

by **chiggerbit** » Thu Aug 11, 2005 9:38 am

I get the same feeling about Russbacher as I do when I read about Ted Gunderson or Michael Riconosciuto(?). <a href="http://www.american-buddha.com/gunther.russbacher.toc.htm">www.american-buddha.com/g...er.toc.htm</a> <a href="http://www.rumormillnews.com/secretlife.htm">www.rumormillnews.com/secretlife.htm</a> <a href="http://www.american-buddha.com/who.is.this.man.htm#WHO%20IS%20THIS%20MAN%20WHO%20CLAIMS%20HE%20FLEW%20BUSH%20TO%20PARIS">www.american-buddha.com/w...TO%20PARIS</a>

by **Dreams End** » Thu Aug 11, 2005 12:51 pm

In fact, the guys you mention, chiggerbit, are a "type". They have so many similarities that I hesitate to attribute it all to purely con games. I've also seen this type among UFO researchers. There are several folks who will pop up with insider information that is HIGHLY detailed. What is interesting here, is that two such folks I can think of were clearly from Defense Intelligence agencies (for those who follow that topic, I'm thinking of the "aviary".) The typical pattern is that, at just the right moment, this type of person emerges with absolutely critical insider information. they all have in common the ability to master (at least in print) IMMENSE amounts of information and to concoct (if that's what it is) HIGHLY detailed scenarios that may not be believable as a whole but really seem to hang together as narratives. Typically, the stories are very believable, and, in my mind, often true, with added stuff thrown in...an added spin, whether particular Illuminati bloodlines (Russbacher had this, if you read of the two factions) or some added facts that simply go too far, like the claim of "Condor" that not only did the US have some grays in custody, they really like Strawberry ice cream. There is also an uncomfortable overlap with the rightwing anti-Semitic fascist crowd. I'm unlearning some bad habits here, such as instantly dismissing all "patriot movements" and even "militia movements" as such people. However, there is a weird undercurrent within the extreme right, that on the surface is concerned with the same "conspiracies" that we are. Only, if you keep reading, you see that it all tracks back to Jews. This is weird because most of us on this site see emerging (or already emerged) fascism as the big problem here. Yet these same conspiracies are used as fodder for more overtly fascist groups as well. Surely, Nazi Germany had variations on these exact same conspiracies as such: Communism is the enemy and all we are doing is justified by this. However, communism is secretly a tool of the world elites, started by them as yet another way to keep the world divided and under their control. Oh yeah, and those elites? Jews. Or tools of the Jews. I see this all over the internet when I'm researching this stuff and I've posted about it before. Their (whoever you include among this group) conspiracies always go a few steps further and our more complete than most of us can make them...all can be explained by one overarching Jewish conspiracy. And though I'm no fan of international bankers and realize they are a big part of the problem, please realize, such as in the example I'll provide here, that "international bankers" is often a code phrase for Jews. I'll ask you to explore a website here in a second to see a good example of how this works. What is really insidious about this is that it takes very important, serious information and twists it. I can't speculate on motivation, but two come to mind. One, simply to create a tale that more accurately promotes their worldview (often done very skillfully...I've fallen into their trap several times) or worse, two, to deliberately create disinformation to allow the discrediting of real information. For example, if I was to discover that my secret plans to nuke China had been uncovered, I'd simply change those plans and then spin up an elaborate scenario that distorts the underlying truth and feed it out through one of these sites. Let me give a couple of examples. The first one won't hurt any feelings, though the second one might, but I really am not speculating on his motivations but am simply pointing out his associations. Okay, first example is Philip Corso. This guy, while in his eighties, put out a book called Day after Roswell. I read most of it while sitting in a bookstore, so I don't have the complete story here. The book claims that he was involved in reverse engineering alien technology from Roswell. I can't remember Corso's "bona fides" as seventhsonjr. likes to say, but they checked out. He really was pretty high up in military intelligence (all the "best" ufo insiders are overtly connected to military intelligence). I was really excited about this book but as I read it, I grew wary. First off, some elements I can't put my finger on simply didn't sound right. I don't know, for example, he kept these bits of technology in a file drawer in his office. Just didn't seem right to me...but sometimes such incongrous facts can actually be confirming as they are so obviously odd that someone making up a story would not have included them. The other thing that bugged me though, was his insistence that pretty much all of the CIA had been infiltrated and was practically controlled by the KGB. This seemed unlikely to me. One of the "themes" of the fascistic conspiracists seemed to be the "Bolshevization" of the US. You still see this theme, in fact, though less so due to the end of the Cold War. However, there are still plenty out there. On another thread, we discussed Col. Grand-Pre and his ideas about the need for a military coup. I haven't read his books, but I did see one blurb about one of them that specifically called the book an expose on the Bolshevization of the US. If you rememember back in the Iran Contra days, one of the shadowy groups always lurking was the World Anti-Communist league (I may not have the name exactly right.) Extreme anti-communism is a hallmark of many fascist movements. I don't mean disliking communism, I mean finding it at the heart of every major conspiracy as an effort by the elites to take over the world. I've not found any information out there about this topic that was not on a website that well...you know...JEWS again. It's complicated because I certainly do assume that all sorts of movements and governments have been used and even begun by various elite forces for all kinds of reasons. So it's a matter of degree here and sometimes real discernment is needed. For as I said, usually there's a lot of "true" information mixed in with the made up stuff and the spin that supports a fascistic worldview. Here's another example. Who was putting out the most extreme version of the "General Byrn was fired" scenarios? Skolnick. He claims a shooting civil war has actually begun. Go to his site and check it out: <a href="http://www.cloakanddagger.de/">www.cloakanddagger.de/</a> He provides no sources and links to a Russian woman's site who takes the stories we've all seen in the mainstream media and speculated about and she simply lists as factual that the General was "arrested" by counter-coup forces. We are all wondering if that might be the case, but we don't have evidence of this. The only other source I see on this site is under "Just the tip of the iceberg." Click on that, and you get a TV news story about an airforce colonel vandalizing cars. No other sources for his information. So clearly, Skolnick fits into the "exaggerating" the facts at hand camp. However, go to his links page. He has a list of "Affiliate Websites" separate from his general links. Who do we find there: Eustace Mullins, on of the most profound and overtly anti-Semitic writers out there. Here's Mullins on the tragic demise of the "Old South": <blockquote>Quote:<hr>Under the able leadership of Rockefeller's Council of State Governments, the Old South has been re-created as "The Plantation." No longer do contented blacks pick cotton.<hr></blockquote> You can do a search on Mullins if you want more information. You can start at his own site: <a href="http://www.eustacemullins.com/">www.eustacemullins.com/</a> It's called the "Bankers Research Institute." Mullins put forward the following information back in the fifties that became one of the widest known hoaxes. I quote Wikipedia on this incident: <blockquote>Quote:<hr>Allegedly written in 1912 by Israel Cohen, a British Jewish Communist, the work first gained public notoriety on June 7, 1957, during debate on the Civil Rights Act of 1957, when Rep. Thomas Abernathy of Mississippi read a quotation from it into the Congressional Record: "We must realize that our party's most powerful weapon is racial tensions. By propounding into the consciousness of the dark races that for centuries they have been oppressed by whites, we can mold them to the program of the Communist Party. In America we will aim for subtle victory. While inflaming the Negro minority against the whites, we will endeavor to instill in the whites a guilt complex for their exploitation of the Negros. We will aid the Negroes to rise in prominence in every walk of life, in the professions and in the world of sports and entertainment. With this prestige, the Negro will be able to intermarry with the whites and begin a process which will deliver America to our cause." Abernathy had found the quotation in a March letter to the editor of the Washington Star; he claimed it as proof that the civil rights movement was a foreign Communist plot. However, the Washington Star soon apologized for having printed the quotation without verifying its authenticity and, on February 18, 1958, published an article entitled "Story of a Phony Quotation--A Futile Effort to Pin It Down--'A Racial Program for the 20th Century' Seems to Exist Only in Somebody's Imagination", which traced the quotation to Mullins, who claimed to have found it in a Zionist publication in the Library of Congress. On August 30 of that year, Rep. Abraham Multer of New York read the Star article into the Congressional Record and raised several other points challenging the quotation's authenticity. These included the nonexistence of a British Communist party in 1912, the nonexistence of a British Communist author named Israel Cohen, and the failure of a book entitled A Racial Program for the Twentieth Century to appear either in the Library of Congress or in the British Museum Catalogue of Printed Books. The quotation has retained some popularity among racists and anti-Semites to this day, appearing on the websites of organizations such as Stormfront [1] and Jew Watch [2].<hr></blockquote> Mullins, by the way, was quoted in Pat Robertson's book about the New World Order, evidently, so his views have a wider audience than probably his own books have. Another of Skolnick's "associated sites" is that of Henry Makow at Save the Males (we males are so oppressed. Why, just look at the Senate...but I digress.) There's a lot of information, taken in isolation on his website, that might feel at home here. There's a lot of other information that is simply offensive, unless you believe that homosexuals recruit in order to destroy America. Makow is great for this example because, despite claiming to be Jewish, he is quite explicit about linking the "Illuminati" and the NWO to Jews. Here are his words on the topic: <blockquote>Quote:<hr>Who is the Illuminati? We are still living off the twilight rays of Western Civilization, which was based on Christianity. Civilization is always based on a religion, an ideal. Christ taught that God is Immanent and His Plan is to manifest Himself through His Creation. We must do His will rather than pursue our own selfish desires. Kings derived their authority from God and were answerable to Him. The Jewish Pharisees rejected Christ. They practised a naturalistic religion that turned Christ's message on its head. Man is God, rules the universe, and defines reality. We can indulge our desires. Dating back to Zoroastrianism, the Jewish Cabala reverses the roles of God and Lucifer and embraces occult symbols, rituals and blood sacrifices. This is the Cosmic Struggle between Spirit and Matter: God will be Immanent; Matter will resist. This is the conflict between God (the view that man is unfinished, and dependent on Divine revelation) and Lucifer (man is already god.) The Cabalists secretly dedicated themselves to destroying Christianity and Western civilization. In 1773 Amschel Mayer Rothschild convened a meeting of 12 prominent Jewish bankers and other prominent Jewish personalities and submitted a programme to level the social order using the contradictory promise of "liberty" and "equality." In 1776, they had Adam Weishaupt organize the Order of the Illuminati, which merged with Freemasonry in 1782. Freemasonry is Cabala and, in the words of Andre Krylienko, (The Red Thread) it was "launched for the purpose of enlisting non-Jews consciously or unconsciously in the service of Jewry." (p.93) <a href="http://www.savethemales.ca/211002.html">www.savethemales.ca/211002.html</a> <hr></blockquote> You will find this view below the surface in many such sites. I know we don't want to play the "guilt by association game" and I haven't found Skolnick to be putting forward these views, but these guys are among his "associate websites" and this should concern us. It is no wonder that sometimes anti-fascist researchers lump so much of conspiracy theory as the ravings of rightwing whackos. That's where so much of it comes from. And since the 80's and Iran-contra and October surprise, a lot of these folks have made inroads into the left. I don't know how much of this is intentional and how much is these guys just seeking to expand their base, but it smells to me. This was a long ramble, and I've posted about this before. I don't think it is our job to make tables and charts of who is "genuine" and who is a closet fascist or an intel agent. Here's the bottom line, though: I find this crap all over the place and it is really frustrating as someone who really thinks there are sophisticated conspiracies out there that better explain historical events. And although we often blame the "left gatekeepers" for why some of the more conspiratorial aspects of "deep politics" get neglected, we can put at least some of the blame on these sorts of writers and websites. Think about it, if you are a genuine, left leaning activist researching this stuff and you keep coming across these anti-Semitic sites, you'd perhaps stop bothering and assume that there's just not enough substance there. And that may just be what much of this is all about.

by **heyjt** » Thu Aug 11, 2005 2:41 pm

Russbacher was one of many shady assets that intel groups use. I've researched others that go about their work and de-fraud lenders, bankrupt companies, leaving trails of un-paid bills in their wake. If they are useful, they are rarely prosecuted. I've had e-mail exchanges with his former wife Rayelan in the past. If there is a faction 1 and 2, I still can't figure out which one Russbacher was affiliated with. Perhaps he was just an opportunist. I have no doubt he knew where a lot of bones were buried. I spoke to Rodney Stich several times in the late '80's. He came across as a grandfatherly true believer that was driven to near poverty and virtual home arrest after he started whistle-blowing on the FAA. That was one angle that he was qualified to report on. Subsequently, he hooked up with the likes of Stew Webb, who in my opinion, from speaking with him and interviewing him, is playing various sides of various games. I think it becomes a matter of making a personal income for him, and at times people like this either wittingly or unwitingly spin dis-information...

by **sunny** » Thu Aug 11, 2005 7:37 pm

Yeah, I stumbled across Makow some time ago-"Exposing Feminism and the New World Order." Ugh! One of his articles was entitled "Frigid women are usually Feminists." Poor man. Seriously, Dreams End, what you say has a lot of merit. These people are the reason we can't interest Kos, much less Chomsky, in our ruminations on conspiracy. Whatreallyhappened has the same bent, but I still go there for the articles. Anyhoo, Makow, I think, had an article on the "coup plans" re Col. Grand Pre but I can't bring myself to go there and find out.

by **chiggerbit** » Thu Aug 11, 2005 11:37 pm

Dreams End, your reference to the anti-communism crusade rang a bell with me. "Anti-communism" seems to be a unifying thread with so many of these conspiracies, from JFK to Cuba, to Panama, to Iran/Contra, even to Iraq, which prevented privatization of the much-desired oil. Consider also Argentina lately. I'm thinking of the World Anti-communist League, for one. I have never figured out the game, but when I saw Rayelan singing John Ashcroft's praises, I about puked. Not sure how to explain this, but with Russbacher, Rionnisciuto and the rest I feel as if it is part of a design, one that exploits groups both on the right and the left. The design seems to be to promote capitalism without restraints. It has this feeling to it similar to that which is referred to in a training manual by one calling himself "Tacayán" for use in Latin America. Very scary. It reminds me very much of current adviser to the Bush administration, Ed Luttwak, and his book on how to perform a coup. Good subject for a data dump. Absolutely fascinating reading. Here are some clips. <a href="http://www.webcom.com/pinknoiz/covert/tacayan.html">www.webcom.com/pinknoiz/c...cayan.html</a> Christian and democratic crusade being waged in Nicaragua by the Freedom Commandos. "...Guerrilla warfare is born and grows in the political environment; in the constant combat to dominate that area of political mentality that is inherent to all human beings and which collectively constitutes the "environment" in which guerrilla warfare moves, and which is where precisely its victory or failure is defined. This conception of guerrilla warfare as political war turns Psychological Operations into the decisive factor of the results. The target, then, is the minds of the population, all the population: our troops, the enemy troops and the civilian population. This book is a manual for the training of guerrillas in psychological operations, and its application to the concrete case of the Christian and democratic crusade being waged in Nicaragua by the Freedom Commandos..." "....In order to obtain the maximum results from the psychological operations in guerrilla warfare, every combatant should be as highly motivated to carry out propaganda face to face as he is as a combatant. This means that the individual political awareness of the guerrilla of the reason for his struggle will be as acute as his ability to fight...." "....The careful selection of the staff, based on their persuasiveness in informal discussions and their ability in combat, is more important than their degree of education or the training program. The tactics of the Armed Propaganda Teams are carried out covertly, and should be parallel to the tactical effort in guerrilla warfare. The knowledge of the psychology of the population is primary for the Armed Propaganda Teams, but much more intelligence data will be obtained from an EPA program in the area of operations...". "....The control of mass meetings in support of guerrilla warfare is carried out internally through a covert commando element, bodyguards, messengers, shock forces (initiators of incidents), placard carriers (also used for making signals), shouters of slogans, everything under the control of the outside commando element. When the cadres are placed or recruited in organizations such as labor unions, youth groups, agrarian organizations or professional associations, they will begin to manipulate the objectives of the groups. The psychological apparatus of our movement through inside cadres prepares a mental attitude which at the crucial moment can be turned into a fury of justified violence. Through a small group of guerrillas infiltrated within the masses this can be carried out; they will have the mission of agitating by giving the impression that there are many of them and that they have a large popular backing. Using the tactics of a force of 200 – 300 agitators, a demonstration can be created in which 10,000 – 20,000 persons take part...." Edited by: <A HREF=http://p097.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=chiggerbit@rigorousintuition>chiggerbit</A> at: 8/11/05 9:44 pm

by **chiggerbit** » Thu Aug 11, 2005 11:58 pm

Just put the entire thing over in data dump. Need to do Low Intensity Conflict, too.

Gunther Karl Russbacher dies

Gunther Karl Russbacher dies

Just my intuition

Russbacher

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