How about switching the emphasis ?

[slimmouse]

<br><br> How about suggesting that we dont blame anyone in particular for how the world is today ?<br> <br> How about, via clear examples of the death, misery and destruction inflicted upon the innocent ( Iraq, Darfur, et cetera et cetera ) we try suggesting that something is seriously wrong here ?<br><br> This does of course lead to major issues.<br><br> And hopefully the right kind <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START ;) --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/wink.gif ALT=";)"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <p></p><i></i>

[thumperton]

what do you mean really? do you think this is karma? <p></p><i></i>

[slimmouse]

<br><br> When I "want" something that I dont really need,I suppose in all honesty Im being selfish.<br><br> Especially , given that in the greater picture, what I want will neccesitate someone being denied of what they need.<br><br> And on the above comment, you can truly rely.<br><br> The most amazing thing being ; Any scientist worth his salt these days is saying that we are all interconnected.<br><br> Do the logic for yourself I suppose <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START ;) --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/wink.gif ALT=";)"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <p></p><i></i>

[thumperton]

more vague, please <p></p><i></i>

[slimmouse]

<br><br> OK thumper - Heres less vague ;<br><br> Less vague involves thinking about the We as opposed to thinking about the I.<br><br> I would argue that ,thats pretty damned specific.<br><br> Surely you dont need any articulation ?<br><br> If you do, try looking within. <p></p><i></i>

[thumperton]

When the moon is in the Seventh House<br>and Jupiter aligns with Mars<br>Then peace will guide the planets<br>And love will steer the stars<br><br>This is the dawning of the age of Aquarius<br>The age of Aquarius<br>Aquarius! Aquarius!<br><br><!--EZCODE IMAGE START--><img src="http://www.smiliesftw.com/!/dunno.gif" style="border:0;"/><!--EZCODE IMAGE END--> <p></p><i></i>

[Sepka]

Bravo, SlimMouse. We build our own world and society. There are no controlling conspiracies, save those that arise from our own nature as a people. If we are unhappy with our world, it's because we have failed to build the world we want. If we have failed to build that desired world, it is because we have failed to be the sort of people by whom such a world could be built. Focussing on leaders and conspiracies does nothing to change that. Our leaders and their conspiracies are products of our nature. Unless our nature changes, replacing one leader with another brings only cosmetic change.<br><br>-Sepka the Space Weasel <p></p><i></i>

[thumperton]

if human nature is the problem, perhaps we need to stop looking at human ideals such as man made 'democracy' or other contrivances to govern us and look somewhere higher? <p></p><i></i>

[StarmanSkye]

Oh MaN, that's the wackiest thing I've seen in quite some time. Tho I'd like to think it's a neat idea with merit, beyond a very small, intimate and committed group or family, it plain won't work. Healing can't happen without forgiveness, and forgiving 'anonymous' just plain has nothing going for it but perhaps as a moderately interesting thought experiment.<br><br>It's awful enough that the world's most monstrous destroyers and defilers are emboldened by the fact of their unaccountability to rule of law, but removing even the limited inhibition of unfavorable public opinion by not putting names and faces to victimizers will not help create a better world. Besides, the significance of many crimes can't even be grasped let alone discovered without identifying major actors and their networks, and tracing their actions.<br><br>In practical terms, I can't even think how this would work. We each (that is, those of us with developed self-awareness and an evolved spiritual-cosmic perspective, ie. most here IMO) already model our behavior to reflect the ideals of peace and global cooperation, having seen the destructive folly of war and aware of the awful capacity of the two-legged beast for inhumanity to others of its kind and indulgent self-deception re: what is 'right'. <br><br>But for many, way too many other people, they apparently look at life as a smash-and-grab job for whatever they can get away with, or something to endure by stroking their egos or feeding their hungers or escaping boredom by constant diversion. Others embrace religion or follow leaders looking for 'answers', often in the hope they are helping to create a better world -- or to find a niche they can be reasonably secure in. Most faith traditions, after all, promote an ideal and principles intended to either mimic or create a 'heaven' on earth -- the very kind of transformative change your suggestion envisions as within our grasp.<br><br>But realistically -- How many generations of the most dedicated world-wide example of unconditional, all-embracing love and faith and forgiveness would it take to overcome the last hold-out scoundrel, murdering, larcenous thug and win them over to an ideal Paradise on Earth? Can we survive that long letting crimes go unpunished before those embracing pure evil cause some monumental catastrophe, or will the planet be swallowed by the sun before the last vestuge of wicked human nature is excised from the gene pool -- IF such a thing is even possible.<br><br>I think our best chance for progressive reform is to keep hammering away at revealing the PTB's awful crimes, to hopefully waken and arouse enough of a slumbering public to take action and make a stand against the awful evil that has hijacked our nation's highest offices and turned it towards war and power, profits and atrocities.<br><br>Heh -- But whatta I know? Global Buddhamind just may be the best and shortest route to achieving true peace and justice across the world.<br>Starman <p></p><i></i>

[Sepka]

Thumperton said:<br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>if human nature is the problem, perhaps we need to stop looking at human ideals such as man made 'democracy' or other contrivances to govern us and look somewhere higher?<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br>You can't rescue a failed system by operating within the paradigms of that system. <br><br><br>Starman Skye said:<br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Healing can't happen without forgiveness, and forgiving 'anonymous' just plain has nothing going for it but perhaps as a moderately interesting thought experiment.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br>Healing those already hurt is perhaps not necessary, any more than it was necessary to inculcate an appreciation for computers in everyone living in 1990 to embed the computer in popular culture. One works with the young, brings them up in the right path, and protects them from hurt. In time, they will replace the hurt and distrustful generations. It's not a quick fix, and it would take many generations to fully accomplish, but with enough people participating, it would work.<br><br>And I suspect that more people than you believe would be willing to forgive the 'anonymous', and get on with their lives, if general forgiveness and amnesty would stop the hurtful behaviour. When you decide upon 'the enemy', and blame him for the ills of the world, you become much like the bull charging the matador's cape, blaming it for his torment. If you destroy the cape, the matador will have another. If you kill the matador, another will step from the wings. These are only temporary and futile victories. In the end, your torment is caused by the system in which you are caught, and by your decision to react within the paradigms of that system. As long as you keep charging the matador and his cape, the visible symbols of your suffering, you enable the game to continue.<br><br>-Sepka the Space Weasel <p></p><i></i>

[sunny]

Forgiveness is essential in ones own personal life. Bitterness and hatred are destroyers of mind, body, and soul and are to be avoided at all cost. Restored trust in those we forgive is desirable, but not always possible. The most important thing is to <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>let go</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> of the negative energies that would hamper our spiritual growth.<br><br>Yet- how are we to forgive, indeed how <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>can</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> we forgive those who are unrepentent, who continue without remorse to destroy large parts of humanity by military and economic means, deliberately and knowingly through malicious greed and gleeful depravity? Should we know their names? It's the reason we are here, isn't it? To take names, put a face on the sins and crimes we know are going on, sometimes in <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>our</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> name. It is one thing to forgive sins against us personally- it is quite another to forgive crimes against humanity, committed without conscience. Righteous anger is the only sane response to what is going on in the world today, and to forgive the actions of elite criminals who plan to continue what they are doing is to be complicit in their crimes.<br><br>If they repent individually, come clean and try to expose and stop actions they previously were engaged in, I think it is incumbent upon us to take them at their word, forgive them <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>as an individual</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> and pray that they continue on the path to righteousnous. (that last is for me personally-not a demand that others do the same) <p></p><i></i>

[Connut]

all interconnected. What you focus on, you get more of, so I have to agree, change the focus. Think of how focus can change the outcome in sports. The athlete visualizes him/herself achieving their goal before competing and voila, it happens. Try visualizing what you want in your day before it starts and then watch what happens. I have said it before, and I'll say it again - this makes YOU responsible for YOUR everything - no more blaming mommy. And before you jump all over me, I believe we choose our circumstances before we arrive in order to achieve maximum spiritual growth.<br><br>Cheers, Connut<br><br><br><br><br> <p></p><i></i>

[marykmusic]

On a soul level, we do choose our circumstances <!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>in order to achieve maximum spiritual growth.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>And then, we have free will so that we can either maximize our potential or completely fritter it away.<br><br>Let's look at Dubya as a prime example... Born with the proverbial silver spoon, on a soul level the choice was made to be born into a powerful, wealthy and ambitious family, probably with a ritual-abuse, Secret Society background. He has chosen to further the agenda of that family rather than break free from it and Do Good Works. His soul is doomed because of these free-will choices.<br><br>Now, imagine a child born into poverty, with perhaps physical and gender handicaps, who, through the sheer force of Free Will, manages to lead a creative, positive life. Nothing too special, just a kind person that's well-loved by those around...<br><br><br>Which soul has advanced more?<br><br><br>We are what we decide to become, much more than what we might have been. --MaryK<br><br><br> <p></p><i></i>

[antiaristo]

slim,<br>We agree on much, but I just can't get my head around this one. I'm sure there is something subtle I'm missing, but missing it I am.<br><br>One thing I've learned is that these people will do absolutely ANYTHING if they are sure it will not be connected with them personally.<br><br>My whole strategy for staying alive is based on pinning the responsibility exactly where it belongs. Same thing with the welfare of my kids.<br><br>Are you saying I should do something different? <p></p><i></i>

[slimmouse]

<br> What Im trying to say, is that perhaps we need to alter our emotional emphasis.<br><br> Perhaps even I cant begin to appreciate how difficult this task must be for you.<br><br> And of course this doesnt mean that we stop talking about this stuff. Quite the contrary. Its just softening the dialogue a touch. <p></p><i></i>