Duke U. rape and the "Federal City Council"

Moderators: DrVolin, 82_28, Elvis, Jeff

Re: This Just In....

Postby FranklinCase Admin » Tue Apr 18, 2006 9:54 am

It looks as though they may have to fess up...read the story <!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060418/ap_on_sp_co_ne/duke_lacrosse">here at Yahoo</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--> or I'm sure you can find it on any other news site. <p></p><i></i>
FranklinCase Admin
 
Posts: 70
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2006 5:30 am
Location: Omaha, NE
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: This Just In....

Postby rothbardian » Wed Apr 19, 2006 3:36 am

<br>I personally saw nothing in the Yahoo article that might sway someone. I'll state my two cents about the Lacrosse story:<br><br>It's simply another nice opportunity for the corporate-owned media to create a ravaging divisiveness in the American community. It is classic 'business-as-usual' for the PTB-- play the right against the left, the left against the right, a titanic clash of political correctnesses (is that a word?)...and then the PTB stand back and snicker.<br><br>While all the people are distracted and drawn into these sideshows, the PTB are busy conquering the world.<br><br>And the judicial system coming into play here is rotten to the core-- 99% of these prosecutors are just corrupt, opportunistic bureaucrats. Here, they are probably drooling over a possible mini-repeat of the OJ debacle...books, movies, runs for Congress...who cares if a few innocent people go to jail. <br><br>Meanwhile, a couple of interesting facts I came across, before beginning my long trek of studiously ignoring this (multiple-year?) saga:<br><br>The accused rapists practically begged to be given lie detector tests, the moment they arrived at the police station and...the investigators turned down their offers. That smells.<br><br>Also, the accuser's story is very shaky because, among other things, the frat boys have produced time-stamped photos of the stripper arriving at their location, already dead-drunk AND injured (from who-knows-what). But when a bureaucrat/prosecutor smells an "OJ"...evidence is a small matter. (see link and quote below)<br><br>In fairness, this DOES appear to be quite the convocation of obnoxious jerks...between the stripper showing up for a gig dead-drunk and with injuries(?)...and the racist/sexist frat boys. Possibly, they deserve each other.<br><br>Ironically, this might be one time I agree with the usual PTB mantra ("nothing to see here, move along"). When they're trying to get out attention, I think that's our signal to start ignoring them.<br><br><br><br>"...time-stamped photographs taken by the players show that the accuser was drunk and already had suffered some injuries when she arrived at the house for the party." <!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/04/13/D8GVCKT81.html">www.breitbart.com/news/20...CKT81.html</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--> <p></p><i></i>
rothbardian
 
Posts: 659
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2005 11:08 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: This Just In....

Postby StarmanSkye » Wed Apr 19, 2006 5:18 am

Haven't seen this posted yet, ran across this incident detail in The Smoking Gun, for whatever extra 'light' it might shed on this reeking stink.<br><br>BTW: The fact the Duke team-members took a date-stamped photo of the dancer -- man is THAT ever suspicious. VERY strange. The Smoking Gun site provides gif-text fascimiles of the official police search-warrant papers (9 pages).<br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0405061duke1.html">www.thesmokinggun.com/arc...duke1.html</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br>--quote--<br>Duke Rape Case E-mail Shocker<br>After alleged assault, player wrote of killing, skinning strippers<br> APRIL 5--Shortly after an exotic dancer claimed she was raped at a Duke University lacrosse team party, a member of the squad sent an e-mail announcing that the following night he planned "to have some strippers over" and would be "killing the bitches" as soon as they walked into his dorm room. Disclosure of the e-mail came today with the unsealing of a March 27 search warrant for the residence of Ryan McFadyen, a sophomore lacrosse player. McFadyen is pictured at right in his team headshot. According to the warrant, a copy of which you'll find below, the e-mail was provided to Durham cops by a confidential source who received the correspondence from McFadyen's Duke e-mail account at 1:58 AM on March 14. According to the dancer, she was attacked earlier that morning at a team party (the woman and another dancer had been hired for $400 to perform at a home rented by three of the squad's captains). The e-mail from McFadyen's account notes that, after the strippers were killed, they would be skinned while the author was "cumming in my duke issue spandex." The e-mail is signed "41," which is McFadyen's jersey number. Following a search of the athlete's room and car, investigators walked away with two laptops, a memory card, a disposable camera, cash, and other items. Agents also seized a poster described as "the shocker" from McFadyen's room and a "piece of paper--in vehicle suckie suckie $5.00." (9 pages) <br>--unquote--<br><br>Starman <p></p><i></i>
StarmanSkye
 
Posts: 2670
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2005 11:32 pm
Location: State of Jefferson
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: This Just In....

Postby rothbardian » Wed Apr 19, 2006 7:02 am

I don't know why that would be suspicious. They were expecting her arrival and wanted a photographic chronicling of the event. You certainly would expect that from frat boys. (And most cameras routinely have time-stamping.)<br><br>Anyway, I just think the whole thing is about the PTB's mantra in reverse-- "Come over here. There's lots to see."<br><br>Divide-and-conquer between the libs and the cons-- that's the PTB strategy. <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=rothbardian>rothbardian</A> at: 4/19/06 5:04 am<br></i>
rothbardian
 
Posts: 659
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2005 11:08 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: This Just In...Yikes. Read pages 3 and 4 at smoking gun.

Postby Hugh Manatee Wins » Wed Apr 19, 2006 8:32 pm

They are the probable cause affadavit and describe what both what the woman said happened and the back-up from the medical people who examined her. She was beat up and raped in every orifice.<br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0405061duke3.html">www.thesmokinggun.com/arc...duke3.html</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0405061duke4.html">www.thesmokinggun.com/arc...duke4.html</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br>This looks very much like a solid case that sounds way too Abu Ghraib-like with oral, vaginal, AND anal rape involved, probably why the PTB are trying to keep it a he-said she-said bogus 'controversy.'<br><br>There's lots of evidence on site with her fingernails being at the crime scene from fighting off her attackers. The fucking media carried a story saying 'a time-stamped photo of her doing her nails at the scene was SAID to available complete with her leaving the scene with nail polishi in her hand.'<br><br>Can you believe that shit?<br><br>Remember when that DHS guy was busted for supposedly sending his name, photo, and work phone number to a 14 year-old online? That was a diversion from the more horrifying case of an Arizona State Senate Republican's son getting busted for sodomizing 18 young boys at camp with a broom and light stick, just like Abu Ghraib.<br><br>This woman says she first left when some frat boy waved a broom at her and said he was going to stick it up her.<br>See the affadavit.<br><br>Anything that sounds like Abu Ghraib is now going to be turned into a 'controversy' to protect men in power. <p></p><i></i>
User avatar
Hugh Manatee Wins
 
Posts: 9869
Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2005 6:51 pm
Location: in context
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: This Just In...Yikes. Read pages 3 and 4 at smoking gun.

Postby rothbardian » Thu Apr 20, 2006 3:23 am

<br>I'm interested in this thing in the way it relates to the whole PTB-contrived 'left/right' conflict. The PTB continually plot to tear the community apart with these media-contrived spectacles. So I will wade in here a little bit.<br> <br>A lot of lefties here have this incredible liberal matrix through which they see everything. The whole thing is "rightwing is evil/the left is saintly". But that's only getting it half right. <br><br>HMW--you're making the remark that the media is predisposed to give these frat punks a free ride (in 'explaining away' the fingernails, you say). Have you forgotten how OJ got away with coldblooded murder? When it's time for politically-motivated hatchet jobs in the media, the left gets it's fair share and then some. <br><br>By their own admission, 85-90% of media personnel are left-leaning...so when it's time to automatically side with a young black woman, in a fit of 'political correctness'...there will be no shortage of volunteers in the media.<br><br>I guess the thing I'm interested in, is how someone's 'matrix' will have them hurtling headlong into all the politically correct (PC) directions. For example-- "there's lots of evidence" ? And this is a "solid case"?. I read through all available material at Smoking Gun, and I also provided here, some reports from breitbart.com about time-stamped photo evidence. Where is the "solid case"?<br><br>It could be that this accuser is telling the truth, but so far it looks dubious...when (as I said before) there are apparently time-stamped photos showing her arriving at the location ALREADY drunk and injured.<br><br>The other thing I found interesting is that the one guy sent this nasty email about killing strippers, to some of his friends...AFTER the encounter with the stripper. That just looks to me like they were unhappy with the stripper (arriving slobbering, staggering drunk)...and that there had been a confrontation where insults were traded...and now he's expressing more anger (inappropriate though it might be).<br><br>If you've just raped and injured someone, you're going to be busy creating alibis, covering your tracks etc. This email indicates possibly that he had no idea that rape accusations were forthcoming.<br><br>By the way HMW-- I just think you're making way too many connections without basis (the thing about Abu Ghraib?..and broomsticks?) and letting them draw you into this left/right catfight. <br><br>I just can't believe that RI liberals are so naive (in the manner of mainstream libs) as to NOT see how bureaucrat/prosecutors have a long track record of sending innocent people to prison...if it would help their career. And wouldn't you know it...the DA in this case is in the middle of his reelection campaign. <p></p><i></i>
rothbardian
 
Posts: 659
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2005 11:08 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: This Just In...Yikes. Read pages 3 and 4 at smoking gun.

Postby StarmanSkye » Thu Apr 20, 2006 8:51 am

Rothbardian --<br><br>"The whole thing is "rightwing is evil/the left is saintly". <br><br>This *thing* you say above (I don't even know what to call it) is simply nuts.<br><br>There's like NO basis for it at all -- tho it does explain why you might come up with some of the things you do.<br><br>Where did you ever get such a notion anyway?<br><br>The evidently pejorative value you place on liberal only further confounds this gross value-added oversimplification. I would think you're reflecting the knee-jerk conditioning of the right to poison the very term 'liberal', by associating it with all sorts of qualities, attitudes, assumptions, values, etc. that have NOTHING to do with liberalism. To the extent their clever propagandizing works, their target audience (ie., Joe Blow, Nascar dads and their spouses, the public-school dumbed-down sheeple who never question authority, anyone who doesn't have a very good grasp of actual history, world events, deep politics, etc., and who lacks the information, interest and/or aptitude to critique the politics of PTB exploitation, subversion of democratic principles and values, rampant militarism and stage-managing global conflict to benefit the core elite's narrow interests) experiences a Pavlovian revulsion whenever the term 'liberal' is used to disparage the 'bad' guys -- Democrats, unions, 'Lefties', college professors, welfare parasites, do-gooders, Hollywood, anti-war nuts, anti-Christian secularists, college students (in general, ie. 'slackers'), idealists, dreamers, criminals, parasites -- Do you deny the right has vilified 'liberal' and waged a underhandedcampaign to give it a totally 'different' meaning than what it has always meant throughout the establishment of an American civil society based on self-rule, equality, economic parity, justice, human and civil rights, enlightened principles of cooperation, progressive reform and constructive engagement.<br><br>Liberalism has always meant an ideology of personal freedom for the individual, democratic forms of government, gradual reform in political and social institutions, tolerance, being broad-minded, generous, not restricted to a close or literal meaning, absence of prejudice, sharing with others.<br><br>I don't know exactly what YOU think liberal means, but I certainly know it means the above -- and I never consented to anyone redefining it for me. To the extent liberal values are clearly antithetical to the Republican and esp. rightwing agenda, I'd say the evidence is abundant that the rightwing agenda is contrary to the core values this nation was founded on -- That in itself may not be 'evil', but the many crimes and abuses committed and horrors and needless suffering caused by both Republicans and Democrats following the postwar rightwing path of neocolonial exploitation and debt-peonage, electoral fraud and aggressive intervention in foreign domestic affairs, managing the public forum debate and criminalizing dissent, obstructing progressive reforms, provoking regional conflicts as a means to exercise coercive political and economic influence while selling arms to all combatants...<br><br>Clearly, I'm very critical of America's postwar foreign policy, and that's not even getting into the awful domestic abuses and frauds and crimes as a result of enormous political power being appropriated by the military industry in collusion with global finance and multinational combines -- with the dangerous, anti-democratic alliances we've seen developing with covert counterespionage and intelligence and military personnel running classified National Security operations that intersect with organized crime, terrorism, arms and drug networks, money-laundering, destabilization and coups -- The US has not only refused to completely and unambigiously renounce torture, genocide, war crimes, racketeering, terrorism, unprecedented arms proliferation, political interference and rampant militarism, but there are no indications that our rightwing 'leaders' have any intentions to change course anytime soon and agree to abide by international agreements and standards, and to cooperate with international institutions.<br><br>Similiarly -- How do you arrive at the 'conclusion' the left sees itself as 'saintly'? That's quite a bit different than the ideals of fairness, justice, equality, peace, dignity, self-awareness, compassion, understanding, and mercy --among other values and attributes -- that those on the left commonly seek to uphold.<br><br>Personally, I look more at what people do and have done and what they say and who they associate with as a measure of what they stand for, rather than depend on a label like right and left to determine whether or who I am critical of and why. But the present leadership, in close alliance with the hidden PTB forces of power and influence, openly acknowledge their rightwing allegiances and ideology, traced to the ideas of Strauss and dozens of right-leaning intellectuals, think-tanks, academic associations and special-interest groups.<br><br>I think the dangerous, reckless and irresponsible path the nation is on owes much to the collusion and cover-up of our 'leaders' in enormous crimes and frauds that constitute a sell-out betrayal of our nation's dearest principles. It sure wasn't the American 'left' that acquiesced in the murder of some 20-million people during the last 60 years in the US's leading role in many dozens of large and small wars, conflicts, invisible and proxy wars, strategy-of-tension, civil strife, induced shortages, blockades, bombings, military-poisonings, subsidized and actual assassinations, and weather wars.<br><br><br>To return to the Duke rape case -- It's curious you would place more weight on the unsubstantiated claim of a photograph than on the details of the arrest and search warrant, or the testimony (ABC article) of the woman's friend (or sister?) regarding her possibly being drugged -- substantiated by the Kroger security-guard who claimed that while he could smell alcohol on the breath of the good-samaritan woman-driver (who gave the (alleged) victim a ride after seeing her be verbally accosted by some men and taking pity on her) but NOT on the (alleged) victim's -- and also, while the guard claimed the woman never said ANYTHING in his hearing about being robbed and raped, he also acknowledged the woman didn't speak at ALL. And yet, the guard, speaking to reporters, said in her opinion there was NO WAY the woman could have been raped -- tho what this is supposed to based on remains obscure,<br><br>The woman's personal articles were found in the house, the men engaged in duplicity to 'fool' and hide their true identity from the woman, WHY would the coach quit and the rest of the season's games be cancelled IF the charges were patently false and evidently so? And what's the big deal about a time-stamped camera, couldn't it be modified to record a time an hour earlier or so? The photographs may have been scanned into one or more of the men's computer and manipulated with a false-time. It seems like the men simply couldn't grasp that they would actually be charged with a crime -- not because they didn't do anything, but perhaps they had done this before, enticed a girl to their rooms and drugged her so she wouldn't be clear about what really happened if anything. Only in this case, the woman victim was taken to a hospital and examined, finding evidence consistent with assault and rape.<br><br>What gets me -- If the woman was obviously drunk and injured, WHY did the guys insult her and then apologize so she'd return? Assuming nothing happened, WHY would the woman make-up a rape-charge? <br><br>Of course prosecuters are occasionally corrupt, sacrificing justice for self-interest. But that's part of the whole goddamned system that has been subverted and fouled, made a priveleged and protected institution that lacks effective citizen oversight <br><br>The way prosecuters have unlimited discretion to 'decide' whether a given crime has merit or the court has the resources to pursue a given case -- huge opportunities to scam the system from without, while big cases use the latest psychosocial techniques to select a jury they can 'win' with.<br><br>Talk about playing the media-audience -- The blowhard Limbaugh on a recent program called her a 'ho' -- How's that for keeping oneself from making a specious rush to judgement? Seems like that's slander at the very least (tho I don't know if he used her name, or if it was released yet.)<br><br>Starman <p></p><i></i>
StarmanSkye
 
Posts: 2670
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2005 11:32 pm
Location: State of Jefferson
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: This Just In...Yikes. Read pages 3 and 4 at smoking gun.

Postby Hugh Manatee Wins » Thu Apr 20, 2006 2:17 pm

I agree with you that the media portrayal is heavily weighted towards divide-and-conquer agit prop.<br><br>But that's all I agree with. Journalists don't determine what gets printed or the headline. Mainstream media is run by spooks and their allies to control the herd in predictable ways. Period.<br>I study this black art, its theories, players, history, and practice.<br>Gender and race are closely meshed into Morality Theater in this white male dominated society.<br><br>I've read all the articles I could find on this specific case to study the treatment and almost all of them cast doubts on the accuser with dismissive headlines that don't hold up to the content, what there is of it, in the articles.<br><br>Classic tactic: Convict in the headlines because few read at all.<br><br>Having known rape victims and their rapists, I know something about this dynamic.<br><br>So you don't think that the medical examiners who corroborate her accusation move the credibility issue in her favor? I do.<br><br> <p></p><i></i>
User avatar
Hugh Manatee Wins
 
Posts: 9869
Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2005 6:51 pm
Location: in context
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: This Just In...Yikes. Read pages 3 and 4 at smoking gun.

Postby rothbardian » Thu Apr 20, 2006 4:09 pm

HMW--<br><br>I'm not sure that I disagree with anything you just said...except for the premature dogmatism regarding guilt or innocence in this Lacrosse case. While you're jumping to politically correct conclusions that favor liberalism, conservatives are doing the same thing here. On and on it goes.<br><br>To Starman--<br><br>I am simply saying that before all the facts are in, there are millions of people rushing to make a judgment call that favors their political views (either right or left) REGARDLESS of guilt or innocence.<br><br>With almost 100% predictability, libs and cons across the land are immediately at the outset, adopting the politically correct position on this case BEFORE all the facts are in. I only cite some of the facts that are being reported, to demonstrate that this case is AT BEST a toss-up at the present time.<br><br>This therefore exposes the fact that people (libs at RI being no exception, apparently) are rushing to make their obligatory, prerequisite 'politically correct' PREJUDGMENT (prejudice, in other words).<br><br>I think your own statements here are a 'case-in-point'--- You ask me..."Do you deny the right has vilified 'liberal'...". I do NOT deny it. I absolutely AGREE with this description [clarification edit.]. BUT just before you asked me that question, ironically you had spent almost a full paragraph "vilifying" and stereotyping RIGHT-leaning Americans:<br><br>Disparaging references to "Nascar dads"-- referring to them as dumb "sheeple" who are effectively illiterate. You describe them as apathetic and has not having the 'tools' ("aptitude") to grapple with important issues.<br><br>Here's your quote:<br>"....Joe Blow, Nascar dads and their spouses, the public-school dumbed-down sheeple who never question authority, anyone who doesn't have a very good grasp of actual history, world events, deep politics, etc., and who lacks the information, interest and/or aptitude to critique the politics of PTB exploitation, subversion of democratic principles and values, rampant militarism and stage-managing global conflict to benefit the core elite's narrow interests..."<br><br>It's 'left' Americans vilifying 'right' Americans, and 'right' Americans vilifying 'left' Americans. Thus the community is torn asunder, instead of uniting to 'pull the plug' on the PTB.<br><br>Myself, being neither right nor left...I see both of these (artificially contrived) positions as having been set up to EMPOWER the PTB. Why? Because BOTH sides are clamoring for increased powers in centralized government, and/or at the very least...have a desire to preserve these obscenely powerful positions (the White House, Congress etc.).<br><br>Centralized government, with it's vast financial (taxation) resources and military firepower...is the very vehicle the PTB use to get where they want to go (totalitarian world rule).<br><br>Liberals have a magical (religious?) belief that if ONLY they could get THEIR favorite political heroes into these positions...that somehow 'liberal' people are made out of different stuff ("saintly") than all the other bureaucrat/politicians who have been corrupted by all this power (and it's trappings)...and controlled by the PTB. <br><br>Liberals apparently believe that somehow, magically and unprecedentedly, their favorite people would NOT succumb to the corruption process that 99% of the US Congressional members have undergone, as well as 100% of the White House.<br><br>It is polyannish to believe this. We need to dramatically reduce governmental powers or better yet...completely reconstitute our 'community leadership' (i.e. government) in terms of freedom. We need to re-sign the Declaration of Independence, as it were.<br><br>As a 'classical liberal' (i.e. libertarian) I have come to see the utter absurdity of coercive government, where one human being walks up to another human being and says: "I am going to take a large portion of your personal freedom away from you and consign it unto myself."<br><br>That's the world we have right now. Here at RI in particular there is this awareness. We are currently staring into the abyss. This is because others have conspired to take our freedom away and are plotting world domination and enslavement.<br><br>Astonishingly (to me) liberals, instead of fighting for freedom, want to take this massive consignment of our freedoms...and hand it over to a NEW set of CLOWNS. Who are the current lib favorites? Bloodsucking vampire Hillary Clinton? Howard Dean? Somebody else who qualifies to be part of the Magically Morally Superior liberal set? (Right-leaning folks have the same notions, by the way.)<br><br>How long after Dean is in office will you begin to see him performing the PTB song-and-dance? A week? A couple of days? Fifteen minutes? Forget about reforming The System. We need to virtually get rid of The System. I want freedom. Freedom form Dean, Bush, Hillary, Cheney, McCain etc.<br><br>I want the freedom to constitute my OWN life, in my own community along with local neighbors. I would love to have the freedom, for example, to get together with ten other sets of parents and hire our own handpicked tutor for our kids...and get them OUT of these horrendous, wretched, penitentiary-style government schools...as just one example. (By that I mean financial freedom-- I want my money back so I can use it as I see fit, for my child's education.)<br><br>As I have stated before, in some of my postings here at RI--- there is this tragic notion that prevails among both left AND right...that we need to have these huge clamp-down massively overpowered 'centralized governments' sprinkled all over the globe...otherwise (so this argument goes) there will be chaos, wars, unrest, bloodshed, injustice, and wild-eyed people running through the streets shooting off their guns.<br><br>A funny thing-- that describes the twentieth century perfectly...an absolute dead-on description. And that was WITH a bunch of overpowered governments in place. Nay, it was BECAUSE OF centralized governments. You can't 'ramp up' and perpetrate worldwide bloodshed unless you have centralized authority. People don't volunteer to die by the millions. It's the bureaucrats who 'volunteer' those millions.<br><br>When you eliminate the centralized power sources, you also eliminate the possiblity of anyone perpetrating evil or error on a larger scale. Hitler would've only been able to screw up his own neighborhood (if even THAT) instead of the entire world.<br><br>I'm not an anarchist but looking back on the twentieth century...it's easy to see there would have been FAR LESS bloodshed, death, destruction and holocausts, without all those centralized, coercive governments that liberals and conservatives have pushed for (and are STILL pushing for). If I had to choose between NO government..and what we had for the last hundred years, it's a 'no-brainer'.<br><br>Up to the present time, both libs and cons are clamoring to consign their freedoms into the hands of people, upon whom they have apparently conferred some sort of de facto deification (Saint Howard, anyone?). It's a huge, huge mistake.<br><br> <br> <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=rothbardian>rothbardian</A> at: 4/20/06 2:24 pm<br></i>
rothbardian
 
Posts: 659
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2005 11:08 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Libs? Cons?

Postby TroubleFunk » Thu Apr 20, 2006 5:32 pm

I don't understand the introduction of outright political debate to this thread. The battles seem to break down along race lines (perhaps) but more along wealth, prestige, power, influence lines. <br><br>"Nascar Dads" aren't stupid because they like Nascar, they're stupid because they ARE apathetic, they ARE culturally uninformed, they DO get their news from Fox and their sense of patriotism from GWB. <br><br>rothbardian, I appreciate you trying to stick up for them, though. Find me five or six of them who are informed enough to engage in the discussions here on a regular basis and I'll give some credence to what you're saying.<br><br>I'm finding myself engaged in lots of discussions with self-described "Libertarians" these days who haven't even invested ONE MOMENT finding out what Libertarianism represents and what its tenets are. Most of these people were Republicans a number of months ago, I find out, and suddenly find themselves on the wrong side of history.<br><br>I'm not saying that's you, though. So, can we get back to Duke? It's sure got my little town (Raleigh) all riled up!<br><br> <p></p><i></i>
TroubleFunk
 
Posts: 112
Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2006 6:48 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

the left/right debate on Duke

Postby rothbardian » Thu Apr 20, 2006 6:11 pm

<br><br>Troublefunk--<br><br>I probably have a few comments on your words here (later today, if I find time). <br><br>But as far as 'staying on topic'...this was a thread that was in the process of being abandoned. It had dropped off the front page of this discussion board (or was about to, if I remember correctly), and I personally revived it because I am concerned about Americans tearing at each other, over this contrived PTB setup (the left/right thing).<br><br>So as far as I'm concerned this IS 'staying on topic'...and I think as long as there are libs here who are prematurely developing dogmatic positions on this Duke thing...it is an opportunity to point all of this out.<br><br>(I am a lifelong 'classical liberal' by the way-- FWIW)<br><br> <p></p><i></i>
rothbardian
 
Posts: 659
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2005 11:08 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: the left/right debate on Duke

Postby rothbardian » Fri Apr 21, 2006 4:03 am

<br><br>I have a couple more comments in response to TroubleFunk...<br><br>You were questioning whether this was actually a debate among libs and cons (as opposed to male/female or rich/poor)-- All I know is that I see a vast multitude of libs and cons across the country right now, and virtually each and everyone of them is siding up according to their definitions of political correctness (predictably, cons argue for the frat boys, and libs for the strippers). It is CLEARLY (once again) a lib/con thing...in my book.<br><br>I am not actually "sticking up" for conservatives, and I find it interesting that you choose to describe it that way. I think I was pretty clear on my specific point that BOTH cons and libs have been deceived into playing a PTB game.<br><br>I wasn't sure I understood your point about 'Johnny-come-lately' Libertarians. Whether they have adopted the 'correct' views early in life or late in life...it's still a good thing to have the correct views (whatever those may be). Possibly you're assuming here, that YOU have had the correct views all along and you're wanting to give some of these folks a swift smack for straggling so far behind...but I am trying to argue that libs are, in fact, NOT up to speed on the real ways of the world (if I may be so bold).<br><br>You engage in yet more disparaging comments about cons...and of course, THEY are doing the same to you this evening over at freerepublic.com. On and on and on it goes. <br><br>You use the word 'stupid' in regards to cons, because they play so neatly into the hands of the PTB in allowing them to militarize, wage wars and set up a police state, which they do. But classical libs like myself see that both right and left are EQUALLY playing into the hands of the PTB. Libs do so by continually pushing for Orwellian/BigBrother/BigNanny government...an objective that is absolutely identical to that of the conservatives. <br><br>You say that you've had "many discussions with Libertarians". I'd certainly enjoy getting in on some of those discussions in the future. My experience has been that a lot of liberals (but not all) get pretty 'shy' when libertarians start trotting out their core principles/arguments (such as the argument that removing 'centralized government' literally removes the ability to MASS-PRODUCE evil).<br><br>By the way, I don't mind if people want to post here, specifically about the controversy at Duke. I don't own this thread. If no one has comments on my thoughts, by all means...have at this thread. <p></p><i></i>
rothbardian
 
Posts: 659
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2005 11:08 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby rothbardian » Fri Apr 13, 2007 7:03 am

North Carolina Attorney General Roy Cooper to drop all charges against Duke Lacrosse team.
http://durhamwonderland.blogspot.com/2007/04/cooper-statement.html

Cooper's statement had a number of highlights:

1. The players are innocent – not victims of a case with insufficient evidence, but innocent. This statement should leave no doubt as to whether a crime occurred.
2. Nifong might be guilty of criminal misconduct.
Nifong is a "rogue prosecutor."
3. Lots of people owe the three players an apology, and a rush to judgment took place.
4. The accuser has serious mental problems (hinted, very strongly, by the AG).
5. North Carolina needs to change its laws to deal with rogue prosecutors in the future.

In light of the fact that these young guys have finally been delivered from a year-long terrifying ordeal, I thought this might be a good time to resurrect this thread. I would challenge anyone to read back through this thread and ask whether "political correctness" played a tragic role in subjecting innocent people to this hellish experience.
rothbardian
 
Posts: 659
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2005 11:08 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Previous

Return to Deep Politics

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest