The CIA “Wehrmacht” - more than a mirage?

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The CIA “Wehrmacht” - more than a mirage?

Postby greencrow0 » Thu Apr 20, 2006 3:25 pm

<!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.harpers.org/sb-cia-wehrmacht.html">www.harpers.org/sb-cia-wehrmacht.html</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br>The CIA “Wehrmacht”<br>Posted on Wednesday, April 19, 2006. By Ken Silverstein. <br><br>With the war in Iraq an utter debacle and public opinion turned against the White House, anger within the armed forces towards Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld and the Administration is growing, and the Pentagon is fighting back (see “Pentagon Memo Aims to Counter Rumsfeld Critics” in the April 16 New York Times). But what's been little noted thus far is what looks to be a similar revolt brewing at the CIA. An ex-senior agency officer who keeps in contact with his former peers told me that there is a “a big swing” in anti-Bush sentiment at Langley. “I've been stunned by what I'm hearing,” he said. “There are people who fear that indictments and subpoenas could be coming down, and they don't want to get caught up in it.” <br><br> =====================<br><br>Could it be that there really are a few white hats in the Black Hat Saloon?<br><br> <br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: The CIA “Wehrmacht” - more than a mirage?

Postby nomo » Thu Apr 20, 2006 4:12 pm

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>“There are people who fear that indictments and subpoenas could be coming down, and they don't want to get caught up in it.” <hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>I think that about sums it up. Spooks trying to cover their ass. No Army/CIA "coup" -- as some deluded people on the Left seem to hope for.<br><br>And what's with this terminology:<br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>"There's an <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>SS group</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> within the agency that's willing to do anything and there's a <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>Wehrmacht group</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> that is saying, 'I'm not gonna touch this stuff'."<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>I mean, I know the CIA "absorbed" quite a few former Nazis after WWII and all that, but is this really how these guys talk amongst themselves? <p></p><i></i>
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Re: The CIA “Wehrmacht” - more than a mirage?

Postby greencrow0 » Thu Apr 20, 2006 4:52 pm

It could be that Russia and China, in addition to blocking the US attempts to intimidate Iran, will also spearhead efforts to bring the cabalmeisters to international justice re Iraq.<br><br>Maybe that's what Hu is telling Bush, as we speak.<br><br>GC <p></p><i></i>
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Re: The CIA “Wehrmacht” - more than a mirage?

Postby StarmanSkye » Thu Apr 20, 2006 6:04 pm

From the article cited:<br>--quote--<br>Scott Horton, a human rights activist who has become a principal spokesman for the New York City Bar Association in evaluating the Bush Administration's tactics, said that he's also hearing stories of growing dissent at the CIA. “When the shit hits the fan,” he explained, “the administration scapegoats lower-level people. It doesn't do a lot in terms of inspiring confidence.”<br>--unquote--<br><br>That tendency by the administration, Pentagon and their loyalist sycophants to deflect criticism and defer responsibility for crimes and abuses onto lower-level fallguy scapegoats would seem to have had unintended blowback consequences, in arousing a long-repressed awareness of contradictions between the military tradition's stated ideals preserving the republic and upholding the Constitution, and the Bush Administration's evident reckless disregard for those ideals. <br><br>Despite efforts by the DoD under Rumsfeld to 'close ranks', it's somewhat encouraging to see that the Military's Code of Conduct hasn't been totally subverted and trivialized, and that numerous officers ARE resisting the coercive culture of unquestioning lockstep conformity that undermines an officers moral responsibility. This in spite of, and perhaps even partly a result of the ham-fisted attempts by the Republican Party (in evident collusion with their Democratic chickenhawk counterparts), the White House and their Pentagon stooges to inculcate an elite officer corp culture of primary allegiance to the C-in-C and Bush Regime by means of strategic promotions and career-incentives as rewards for ball-playing lotalty, implied promises of lucrative post-retirement corporate defense-industry sinecures and lecture-circuit/consultancies, and widely distributing criminal culpability for systematic fraud, influence-peddling, malfeasance, and sundry abuses. At issue are the fundamental principles of moral courage, integrity and character -- whether one is 'up' to standing-by one's actions and decisions, and willing to accept the consequences. The difference between what the Bush Syndicate says and what they actually do has become so great that it's no longer possible to even pretend there's no contradiction. At long last principled members of the military officer class are questioning the premises and assumptions of their C-in-C, and noting that their superiors do not embody the high ethical standards codified by the Military Code of Conduct they are sworn to uphold. It's not insignificant that the hypocrisy has become so glaring.<br><br>******<br>Nomo said:<br>"I think that about sums it up. Spooks trying to cover their ass. No Army/CIA "coup" -- as some deluded people on the Left seem to hope for."<br><br><br>Perhaps 'deluded' is the right word -- but I hardly think only people on the left might see this as offering a ray of light to an otherwise bleak, appalling situation where the nation's leadership has shown itself to be reckless and criminal, no longer subject to the will of We, The People or accountable to independant legislative or judicial oversight. America' election system has been compromised and subject to co-optive fraud. The past 60+ years of American foreign policy has been dictated by powerful economic interests aligned with fatalist military ideology, which have played a primary role in creating the basis for most of the world's current geopolitical problems.<br><br>But there's two issues here; One is a frank assessment of the possibility of an American Military coup, which of course would have abundant precedent in that the US State Dept. and NSA/CIA and Pentagon have been intimately involved in many dozens of military coups and overthrow of legitimate (and not) governments around the world during the past 6 decades -- As we all know, most recently the US was involved in the attempted or actual removal of regimes in Venezuela, Haiti, Iraq, and Afghanistan. Given the widespread sense of unease and alarm both in-country and around the world over US leadership illigitmacy and its posing the biggest actual thrat to globalsecurity, and the increasing dismay within the military itself over the Bush regime's dangerous warmongering provocations, I don't think it's unreasonable to consider the chances for a military coup -- nor would such 'hope' be entirely displaced given how thoroughly corrupt the entire Cabinet is and the Republican Party (which I think should be broken-up and made illegal, and its top officers indicted for numerous crimes from Treason to racketeering, obstruction of justice and fraud, money-laundering and war-profiteering, etc.).<br><br>So in what sense would one be deluded even in 'hoping' a military coup would get rid of the top-tier of illigitmate power-mad Millenialist warmongers currently disseminating the most egregious fear-and-terror propaganda to distract the world and the American public from their systematic crimes and lies and schemings and murder of several hundred thousand foreign citizens, grossly mismanaging the economy and energy policy and trade and diplomacy, threatening to unleash a nuclear armageddon that could ignite a global war? Rather, aren't those people with their head in the sand hoping if they simply stay ignorant and unconcerned the very real danger will just 'go away' -- aren't THEY really the 'deluded' ones here?<br><br>Starman <p></p><i></i>
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Deluded

Postby nomo » Thu Apr 20, 2006 6:13 pm

To clarify: I don't believe that a military coup is going to benefit the country in the long run. It certainly would be a relief to see the current civilian leadership removed from office, but what guarantees are there that the military will do a better job "running" the country? I mean, given the fact that they are so beholden to the industrial complex that <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>enables </em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END-->them, given their track record in those <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>other</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END-->, foreign coups you mentioned, and military culture in general?<br><br>Be careful what you wish for. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Deluded, to Clarify

Postby StarmanSkye » Thu Apr 20, 2006 7:01 pm

Re: Clarification<br><br>That's certainly spot-on -- I wasn't thinking quite that far ahead as per long-term implications. Certainly, looking at the horrid histroy of military coups and the military dictatorships that result, MOST of them since the 2nd WW with crucial US diplomatic, economic, military and political support, it would be foolish to EXPECT a progressive, just and beneficial outcome. Certainly one could anticipate the PTB working with the military complex industry to load the dice in any 'return' to civilian rule -- the presidential candidates would likely be shills for the hidden power-centers and special-interests anyway, as they essentially already are.<br><br>The ONLY 'benefits' to a military coup might be:<br>1. Getting rid of the nutcase idiots who seem to be lusting after a nuclear event in the Mideast, to proclaim the size of their cojones and blackmail/intimidate the world into complying with their version of US king-of-the-hill exceptionalism hegemonic-expansion -- which ambition could readily result in major FUBAR with millions killed, economic collapse, oil-blockade, and Russian/Chinese retaliation -- the whole works. Very Bad Scene.<br><br>2. Shaking up the system -- forcing the public to deeply reflect on How We Got In This Mess -- and How do we 'FIX' the system? Unlikely tho this would result in much actual improvement -- The PTB would just adapt and assume new guises to exercise power and influence.<br><br>3. Provide some breathing space, opportunity to step-back from the abyss and contemplate What IS in the best interests of the nation and its citizens? IF the circumstances for genuine, informed debate and something like a well-motived, Truth and Reconciliation movement working towards the goals of Peace and global cooperation -- something good COULD result.<br><br>But yeah, I wouldn't hold my breath. Considering how naive a great many/most of the current military members are about the US's real role in the world pushing narrow elitist agendas, I don't think it's reasonable to expect some deep, profound awareness informing the actions of a military-led regime. After all, who would the head dictator model himself on -- Pinochet or Castro?<br><br>And I can't imagine a military 'commission' ruling very fairly or competantly. Though perhaps, with the right kind of leadership and cooperation with civilian progressives, perhaps transitioning to some kind of new, improved Council with more direct representative rule, might be possible. But the Executive excesses and assumption of absolute powers will surely have to be repealed and guarded-against. And the military culture that glorifies warmaking and that lends itself to backing neocolonial exploitation and foreign coercion/interference would/should have to change. Absent some external calamity or a catastrophe of our ownmaking, i can't see how it would happen. Why can't soldiers be trained to do double-duty as engineers, architects, carpenters, farmers, construction workers, teachers, doctors, etc -- helping to actually MAKE the world a better place, improve standards of living, bring the benefits of development and modern civilization (ie, tho one based on wise stewardship and local self-sufficiency) to the poorer, ravaged parts of the world? As it is, the military doesn't replace the houses it destroys, or generally provide madical care to those it maims and injures. No wonder there's no accountability -- It's like, 'that's not MY job to 'fix' my mistakes!'<br><br>Unfortunately, that's the Bush Inc. executive model.<br><br><sigh>, so it goes.<br>Starman<br><br>Thing is, I don't think I've EVER been less optimistic about the prospects for the nation and world and even myself in the midterm. <p></p><i></i>
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I bet...

Postby anotherdrew » Fri Apr 21, 2006 12:27 am

ya know I bet the military has somewhere in it's vault of contingincy plans, a plan on what to do if it comes to light that the civilian political leadership of the nation, one ruling party in league with the executive, became controlled by an outside enemy power, or turns out to have ALWAYs been bent on blackest treason to the Constitution of the United States of America, that to which they've each and every one taken a solomn and sacred oath to defend. These plans would most likely have been developed first in the late-thirties/early-forties, then touched up a bit perhaps every decade since.<br><br>Perhaps it might be refered to as: the phoneix contingency<br>(copyright me, send me a check leCarre)<br><br>implemented, perhaps call it: Operation Smedley Butler<br>or... Operation Restore Democracy.<br><br>Perhaps there are some specific guidelines on when it must be implemented. Maybe there are six tripwires. 1. ordering torture, 2. letting the military operate domesticly, 3. a large number of politicly motivated forced retirements, 5. evidence of multiple ongoing election rigging 5. planning genocide/first-strike-nukes, 6. ???<br><br>perhaps the bush junta has already set off 5 of the 6 trip wires. Maybe right now they're worring just what number 6 might be. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: I bet...

Postby Hugh Manatee Wins » Fri Apr 21, 2006 5:00 am

"Operation Smedley Butler"<br><br>I love it.<br><br>There really are lots of people in the military and even intelligence who believe in the ideals of the 'American Revolution' complete with a Constitution.<br><br>CIA Angola Task Force Chief John Stockwell was horrified to find out how incompetent and illegal the CIA was after Vietnam and the disclosures of the Church and Pike Committees.<br><br>So he quit and turned whistleblower.<br><br>I'll bet CIA has lots of post-Cold War idealists who came in expecting to fight terrorism and are getting a rude wake up call the last few years.<br><br>I still deplore the CIA despite this. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: I bet... C.O.O.P. - C.O.G. - Garden Plot - Rex 84

Postby hmm » Fri Apr 21, 2006 7:24 am

Continuity of Operations Plan<br>Continuity of government<br>Operation Garden Plot<br><br>a few names that will give you a clue as to their contingency planning..<br>If i could think of any historical example of a benevolent military coup, or a benevolent security services intervention then i might find this concept more credible.<br>It is also good to remind ourselves that the generals are criticising rumsfeld for not being successful enough in killing those iraqi's fast enough... <p></p><i></i>
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Re: I bet... C.O.O.P. - C.O.G. - Garden Plot - Rex 84

Postby Qutb » Sat Apr 22, 2006 6:53 am

Yeah, that terminology is interesting. "SS" versus "Wehrmacht", gee, I guess we'll have to root for the Wehrmacht then.<br><br>However, I think the analogy is probably quite accurate.<br><br>BTW, <!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/04/21/AR2006042101218.html?referrer=email&referrer=email" target="top">article</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--> in the Washington Post today:<br><br>CIA Officer Is Fired for Media Leaks<br>The Post Was Among Outlets That Gained Classified Data<br><br>By Dafna Linzer<br>Washington Post Staff Writer<br>Saturday, April 22, 2006; Page A01<br><br>The CIA fired a long-serving intelligence officer for sharing classified information with The Washington Post and other news organizations, officials said yesterday, as the agency continued an aggressive internal search for anyone who may have discussed intelligence with the news media.<br><br>CIA officials said the career intelligence officer failed more than one polygraph test and acknowledged unauthorized contacts with reporters. The "officer knowingly and willfully shared classified intelligence, including operational information" with journalists, the agency said in a statement yesterday.<br><br>more <p></p><i></i>
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Re: I bet... C.O.O.P. - C.O.G. - Garden Plot - Rex 84

Postby Dreams End » Sat Apr 22, 2006 12:06 pm

I am now completely convinced that there is an orchestrated and well planned program to discredit the current titular rulers, even to the point of putting out "calls" for military coups d'etat.<br><br>The first one was the strange Col. Donn de Grand-Pre in a famous interview on Alex Jones. The good colonel said that there had been a meeting of pilots AT the Pentagon soon after 9/11 and that they agreed it was an inside job. This was allegedly then reported in a Portuguese paper. He said that a high percentage of the military was aware of this and was willing to make a "counter-coup".<br><br>I had a long post on this a couple of days ago, but unfortunately, I had booted into Windows to play a game and just popped in and started on this topic. Windows, being how it is, froze internet explorer midpost and I lost all of it.<br><br>But the point was that I tried to find some background on Col de Grand-Pre who claimed to be both an arms dealer under Ford and Carter and a Middle East arms negotiator under Sec. of Def. McNamara. I was unsurprised to find NO internet references to him other than that one interview and a couple of other interviews along the same lines (or reposts of the Jones interview, I didn't look at every one.) <br><br>He has two or three books and within them blames all this on "Bolshevik" infiltration of US Security infrastructure, etc. One review makes it look like Bolshevik is just another code for "Jew" but it was the review that said that....I haven't read the books.<br><br>So nothing on the good colonel, but a few OCD hours later and I did find that there is a Grandpre family in South Dakota (de Grand-Pre claims he's from North Dakota originally) and that there is, indeed, someone with the unusual first name of Donn in that family. However, the reference made it look like it was a younger person who'd interviewed his Dad about WW2 for a college project, though that interview could have been some time before. <br><br>In any event, there's also a Donn Grandpre mentioned in a VFW post listing of officers. <br><br>But that's it.<br><br>And in all the reposts of his interviews and references to him, including by the "brillian researcher" Webster Tarpley, I never saw one attempt to verify he was who he said he was. Not one.<br><br>Okay, so I'm still working on that. Actually he gave out his phone number in the Jones interview but I am debating the wisdom of calling someone like that and bringing attention to myself.<br><br>Fast forward a bit to 2004 and Wayne Madsen is also making calls for a "Seven Days in May" scenario. Very similar message (though if you've seen the movie...not really a happy thought and no Kirk Douglas to save us.)<br><br>Come to think of it, I don't know if anyone's every verified Madsen's credentials either, but I don't like them, even if they are true.<br><br>One of the original signers of the famous 9/11 truth statement (and boy does THAT list give you a few clues on what's up) was Ray McGovern, former CIA analyst who not only writes for Counterpunch but gives his email address as @Counterpunch.org. Guess he's taken up residence there, virtually speaking.<br><br>It is now clear to me that from the beginning or, more likely, BEFORE the beginning of 9/11, there was an organized effort to exploit and control the opposition. Have a look at the list of signers of the original 9/11 truth <!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.911truth.org/article.php?story=20041026093059633">statement:</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--> <br><br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr><br> 1. Virginia Deane Abernethy, Ph.D., anthropologist, author, Population Politics<br> 2. Ed Asner, actor, activist<br> 3. Marshall Auerback, international portfolio strategist for David W. Tice & Associates, Inc.<br> 4. Catherine Austin Fitts, Asst. Secretary of Housing in the first Bush administration<br> 5. Keidi Obi Awadu, aka The Conscious Rasta, talk show host, LIBRadio<br> 6. Michael Badnarik, Libertarian candidate for President<br> 7. Byron Belitsos, publisher, Origin Press, author Planetary Democracy<br> 8. Philip J. Berg, Esquire, former deputy attorney general, Pennsylvania<br> 9. Medea Benjamin, activist, author, co-founder, Global Exchange and Code Pink<br> 10. Dennis Bernstein, investigative reporter, radio host of KPFA's Flashpoints<br> 11. Steve Bhaerman aka Swami Beyondananda, author, political comedian<br> 12. Brad Blanton, Ph.D., psychotherapist, author, Radical Honesty<br> 13. Saniel Bonder, spiritual teacher and author, Great Relief<br> 14. Dr. Robert Bowman, USAF Lt. Col. (Rtd.), founder, Institute for Space and Security Studies<br> 15. John Buchanan, author, candidate for the Republican Party Presidential nomination, 2004<br> 16. Gray Brechin, Ph.D., author, environmental historian, professor, UC Berkeley<br> 17. Fred Burks, presidential interpreter for Bush, Clinton, Cheney, and Gore<br> 18. Norma Carr-Rufino, Ph.D., author, professor of management, San Francisco State University<br> 19. Angana Chatterji, Ph.D., scholar-activist and professor of anthropology<br> 20. Paul Cienfuegos, co-founder, Democracy Unlimited of Humboldt County<br> 21. David Cobb, attorney, national presidential candidate, US Green Party<br> 22. John Cobb, Ph.D., theologian, co-author, For the Common Good<br> 23. Ernest Callenbach, founder/editor, Film Quarterly, author, Ecotopia<br> 24. Kevin Danaher, Ph.D., author, speaker, co-founder, Global Exchange<br> 25. Stephen Dinan, author, Radical Spirit<br> 26. Ronnie Dugger, journalist/author, co-founder, Alliance for Democracy<br> 27. Rachel Ehrenfeld, Ph.D., Director, American Center for Democracy, author, Funding Evil<br> 28. Daniel Ellsberg, author, Secrets: A Memoir of Vietnam and the Pentagon Papers<br> 29. Jodie Evans, co-founder, Code Pink<br> 30. Richard Falk, Professor Emeritus of International Law, Princeton University<br> 31. Michael Franti, musician, filmmaker, human rights worker<br> 32. Janeane Garofalo, actress, comedienne, talk show host, Air America Radio<br> 33. Jim Garrison, Ph.D., president, State of the World Forum, author, America as Empire<br> 34. Bruce Gagnon, Chair, Global Network Against Weapons & Nuclear Power in Space<br> 35. Ric Giardina, author, consultant, speaker, former Director of Trademarks and Brands for Intel<br> 36. John Gray, Ph.D., #1 bestselling author, Men Are from Mars, Women Are from Venus<br> 37. Stan Goff, 25-year Army Special Ops veteran, author, Full Spectrum Disorder<br> 38. Melvin Goodman, senior fellow, Center for International Policy, author, former Senior Analyst, CIA, professor, National War College<br> 39. Morton Goulder, Deputy Secretary for Intelligence and Warning under Nixon, Ford, and Carter<br> 40. David Ray Griffin, Ph.D., theologian, author, New Pearl Harbor<br> 41. Doris "Granny D" Haddock, campaign finance crusader, NH Democratic candidate for Senate<br> 42. Thom Hartmann, radio host; author, Unequal Protection<br> 43. Richie Havens, singer, songwriter, performer, artist<br> 44. Paul Hawken, bestselling author, environmentalist, entrepreneur, founder of Smith & Hawken<br> 45. Randy Hayes, founder, Rainforest Action Network, US National Director, Direction Conservation<br> 46. Richard Heinberg, author, The Party's Over, core faculty, New College of California<br> 47. Van Jones, executive director, Ella Baker Center for Human Rights<br> 48. Rob Kall, editor, OpEdNews.com, president, Futurehealth, Inc.<br> 49. Georgia Kelly, executive director, Praxis Peace Institute<br> 50. Sean Kelly, Ph.D., author, professor of philosophy and religion, CA Institute of Integral Studies<br> 51. John Joseph Kennedy, Democratic Write-in Presidential Candidate for 2004<br> 52. Mimi Kennedy, actress, Dharma and Greg, progressive activist<br> 53. Faiz Khan, M.D., Triage Emergency Physician on 9/11, Assistant Imam<br> 54. David Korten, author, When Corporations Rule the World<br> 55. Frances Moore LappÈ, author, Diet for a Small Planet; founder, Small Planet Institute<br> 56. Scott M. Legere, 25 year radio broadcaster as Scott Ledger, Tampa FL<br> 57. Rabbi Michael Lerner, editor, TIKKUN Magazine, author, Healing Israel/Palestine<br> 58. Michael Levine, bestselling author of Deep Cover, journalist, 25-year veteran of the DEA<br> 59. Joanna Macy, Ph.D., eco-philosopher, author<br> 60. Enver Masud, founder, The Wisdom Fund, author, The Truth About Islam<br> 61. John McCarthy, former Special Forces Captain, president, Veterans Equal Rights Protection Advocacy<br> 62. Ray McGovern, former CIA analyst, co-founder, Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity<br> 63. Cynthia McKinney, five-term Congresswoman from Georgia<br> 64. Ralph Metzner, Ph.D., author, professor, co-founder, Green Earth Foundation<br> 65. Mark Crispin Miller, media critic, author, professor, New York University<br> 66. Joseph W. Montaperto, New York City Fire Department<br> 67. Leuren Moret, geoscientist, radiation specialist, environmental commissioner<br> 68. Ralph Nader, Independent candidate for President<br> 69. Craig Neal, author, co-founder, The Heartland Institute, former publisher, Utne Reader<br> 70. Jeff Norman, executive director, Tour of Duty<br> 71. Jenna Orkin, Esquire, World Trade Center Environmental Organization<br> 72. Kelly Patricia O'Meara, investigative journalist, public relations<br> 73. Michael Parenti, Ph.D., author, Superpatriotism and The Terrorism Trap<br> 74. Edward L. Peck, former US Ambassador and Chief of Mission to Iraq, former Deputy Director to the White House Task Force on Terrorism<br> 75. Peter Phillips, Ph.D., professor, Sonoma State University, director, Project Censored<br> 76. Henri Poole, Internet pioneer, board member, Free Software Foundation<br> 77. Robert Rabbin, author, speaker, creator of TruthForPresident.org<br> 78. Paul H. Ray, Ph.D., sociologist, author, The Cultural Creatives<br> 79. John Renesch, business futurist, author, Getting to the Better Future<br> 80. John Rensenbrink, professor emeritus, Bowdoin College, co-founder, US Green Party<br> 81. John Robbins, author, founder, EarthSave International<br> 82. William Rodriguez, 9/11 rescue effort hero, founder, Hispanic Victims Group<br> 83. Neal Rogin, Emmy-award winning writer, performer, social observer<br> 84. Allen Roland, Ph.D., psychotherapist, published author and peace activist<br> 85. Rosemary Radford Ruether, professor of feminist theology, Graduate Theological Union<br> 86. Michael Ruppert, publisher/editor, From The Wilderness, author, Crossing the Rubicon<br> 87. Chris Sanders, founder, Sanders Research Associates<br> 88. Karl W. B. Schwarz, President, CEO, Patmos Nanotechnologies, LLC<br> 89. Peter Dale Scott, Ph.D., Professor Emeritus, author, Drugs, Oil, and War<br> 90. Firefighter Kevin Shea, FDNY Hazmat Operations<br> 91. Michelle Shocked, singer/songwriter, activist<br> 92. Indira Singh, risk management and computer systems consultant<br> 93. J. Michael Springmann, attorney, former Foreign Service Officer, US Department of State<br> 94. Douglas Sturm, Ph.D., university professor emeritus, Bucknell University<br> 95. Marjorie Hewit Suchocki, Ph.D., theologian, author<br> 96. Chuck Turner, Boston City Council<br> 97. James W. Walter Jr., venture investor, philanthropist, founder of Walden Three<br> 98. Dan Whaley, E-commerce pioneer, founder of GetThere.com, acquired for $750M<br> 99. Burns H. Weston, J.S.D., Professor of Law Emeritus, Director, Center for Human Rights, U-Iowa<br> 100. Howard Zinn, professor, historian, author, A People's History of the United States <br><hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br><br>It will take longer than I have at the moment to deconstruct that list. And I'm not saying everyone on the list is a bad guy/gal. But notice signer number one? Virginia Abernethey. Heinberg's there too, of course. And there's John Gray, associate of Adnan Kashoggi...talk about FOXES in henhouses. There's Byron Belitsos (mentioned in another thread), original funder and founder of 911truth.org. Oh, and head cheerleader for the Urantia movement. Why is it that so many of these types of movements have to receive instructions from the Space Brothers? And if you check out his Origin Publishing, you'll find...well, let's just say Jim is from Marrs and evidently Krapf's friends are from Venus...considered by one reviewer to be the heir apparent to George Adamski. (Sorry for the "uninititiated" this seems all a bit "inside baseball" but I'm rushed at the moment. Google will get you all you need on this.)<br><br>There's Catherine Austin Fitts. Former Reagan officials sure are progressive, aren't they?<br><br>There are people I like on the list, and I don't even know how it was generated. What "truth" did each of these signers have in mind? <br><br>I haven't looked at half these folks yet so I don't know who they are. But the point is that if you start checking out the circle of people that founded, funded and run much of 9/11 truth...as well as the people putting out these calls for military coups, etc, I see a coordinated attempt to move the country in some very frightening directions. Maybe it's strictly disinfo and there's no further agenda. But I doubt it. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: I bet... C.O.O.P. - C.O.G. - Garden Plot - Rex 84

Postby greencrow0 » Sat Apr 22, 2006 10:05 pm

Dreams End<br><br>Thanks for this infor. Donn de Grande Pre was the individual who broke the news about Major Rick Gibney being the one who shot down the plane over Pennsylvania.<br><br>I remember than name when the news broke a couple of years ago. <br><br>As for people who oppose the cabal and do not believe in 9/11 they are a very deparate group and the only real common denominator is they, like me, have a very good BS detector and don't like being lied to as a matter of course.<br><br>I see Charley Sheen is having his reputation ruined as we all predicted. There's a MSM piece today saying he has a restraining order against him by his wife.<br><br>Perhaps it's legit....but since we know the first thing the Bush cabal did, even before he took office, was buy up all the judges, we'll never know. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: I bet... C.O.O.P. - C.O.G. - Garden Plot - Rex 84

Postby greencrow0 » Sat Apr 22, 2006 10:13 pm

It's strange, you used to be able to come up with links when you googled Donn de Grande Pre, but no more.<br><br>GC <p></p><i></i>
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The police state is your friend

Postby nomo » Sat Apr 22, 2006 10:54 pm

How do you tell a military coup from martial law?<br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: I bet... C.O.O.P. - C.O.G. - Garden Plot - Rex 84

Postby thoughtographer » Sat Apr 22, 2006 10:59 pm

<!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=Donn+de+Grand-Pre&btnG=Search">Donn de Grand-Pre - Google Search</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--><br><br>[edit: took off the "e", which wasn't in the actual search] <p><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>"A crooked stick will cast a crooked shadow."</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=thoughtographer>thoughtographer</A> at: 4/22/06 9:12 pm<br></i>
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