Does anyone else see that it is time to get out (of the US?)

by **meek** » Tue May 16, 2006 11:44 am

I haven't posted here before, and I'm not sure if this is the right section for a post like this (please move if it is not) but I was just wondering if I was the only one wanting to GET OUT OF AMERICA? I think we are past the point of no return. I have contacted an immigration lawyer and hopefully have set the wheels in motion before it is too late, but who knows? People are telling me that it is fear that is motivating me, but fear can be good, too. A child fears the fire after being burned badly, and that is a good thing. Canada seems the most likely choice, and I'm sure there are many Canadians that would not like to see their country "invaded" but I will say this: we are not all fat, lazy and stupid in America. Many are, but not all. If there is anyone out there from Canada, I would greatly appreciate any help/advice you can give on good places for a family to move in your country. There is no future left here for my children, and I hope and pray that God will provide us a way out. Thank You.

by **Ted the dog** » Tue May 16, 2006 12:15 pm

What are you basing all this on? It seems like every month or so there's someone that makes a post about moving out of the country. The reality is, where will you go? Why would Canada be any better? The only way leaving would have any point was if you were a family of survivalists, IMO. Leaving is just leaving one "bad" situation for another.

by **StarmanSkye** » Tue May 16, 2006 1:11 pm

I think there's all sorts of reasons to want to emigrate -- Fear is not the only, or necessarily even the most relevant motivation. Among which -- contempt for a nation being misled and misserved by illegitimate, criminal 'leaders', national priorities skewed, ideals and values trashed by an out-of-control kleptocracy banging the drums of war, coarsening social discourse with lowest-common-denominator propaganda, a servile press in thrall to corporations and a military-industrial complex that writes foreign policy, unending banging the drums of war, bankrupting the nation, allowing cities to decay, hypocritical drug-war hysteria and the growing collateral damage of a disenfranchised and unrepresented lower-class, sabotage of the national currency and bankruptcy of the nation, Big Brother surveillance and police state diverting resources into dead-end black-holes, massive corruption destroying what little justice there was left, a braindead consumerist ideology, gun-nut and rabble-rousing intolerant extremism, the politics of division and diversion, widespread rascism, classicism, ageism, sexism, extolling might-makes-right violence as the privelege of American exceptionalism, a society out-of-balance and out-of-touch, etc. There are progressive, forward-looking, hopeful and life-oriented communities and nation/states that provide unique opportunities -- not EVERYPLACE is like Anytown USA. Why shouldn't people try to improve theur quality of life according to their goals and values, and not participate or accomodate the poison that has infected American society? I don't understand your comments, Ted, esp. about what the posted is 'basing' their take on -- I'd say the signs are abundant and self-evident. America's impending economic collapse is sufficient reason for someone towant to emigrate. Contrary to what some people think, the US is NOT necessarily the best place to live. God knows if I was younger, and especially if I had young children, I'd give serious thought to emigrating, esp. where I could help the Bolivarian Revolution create an alternative to corporate-capitalist parisitism. For some people, living in a fascist war-mongering state where self-rule democracy has become a myth is galling. That goes right to the issue of living in a forward-looking society working towards a better world, where people matter and are valued ahead of profits or what one can 'get' from them. Respect for life and rule of law. You know -- THOSE kind of things. People need to dream and have hope for tomorrow. America's Katrina-model of responsible government and everybody working to solve problems and take care of urgent needs is NOT a very appealing promise of more to come. The Revolution can't happen too soon. If someone's soulis blighted living in the USA, and they have the opportunity to leave and resettle somewhere else, why NOT? On the other hand, some people are inspired and invigorated to live under oppression and to resist it with courage, imagination and daring -- a lot of powerful movements and communities thrive under the challenge of resistance, which forge strong bonds of sharing, compassion, dedication to ideals, and so forth. Above all, I don't agree with the one-size-fits-all notion of how everyone ought to accept the cards they're dealt, or that place doesn't matter, or that people shouldn't 'look' or work for something better. People need to listen to their inner wisdom and intuitions sometimes, and recognize when circumstances are too soul-crushing to endure with grace. Some discomforts and oppressions are simply not worth enduring. Esp. when one has a choice Starman

by **thoughtographer** » Tue May 16, 2006 1:13 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Canada seems the most likely choice, and I'm sure there are many Canadians that would not like to see their country "invaded" but I will say this: we are not all fat, lazy and stupid in America. Many are, but not all.<hr></blockquote> Nice attitude. If you can't beat 'em -- RUN! They'll all be TOO FAT AND LAZY to KEEP UP! "A crooked stick will cast a crooked shadow."

by **thurnandtaxis** » Tue May 16, 2006 1:29 pm

I'd like to think that moving to a second or third world economy would be a desirable thing to do if indeed America will face a reckoning with real or manufactured peak oil. Any country where people still are not as far removed from producing a fair amount of their own food, live without ubiquitous air conditioning, repair and continue to use older motor vehicles and employ bicycles or horses seems a good bet. Can you imagine what an economic crash would be like here? I think that manyof the PTB have. Detention Centers. Vanishing Posse Commitatus. New Bankruptcy Laws. To name a few. Some friends of mine just bought 29 acres with a small house for $30,000 in the Mendoza region of Argentina. The nearby town has a decent amount of European and American expatriates. I'm buying them this book: <a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1569243301/104-6706682-9263936?v=glance&n=283155">www.amazon.com/gp/product...e&n=283155</a> It's a Long Road to a Tomato : Tales of an Organic Farmer Who Quit the Big City for the (Not-So) Simple Life

by **meek** » Tue May 16, 2006 3:20 pm

StarmanSkye, Thank you for your response. Yes, you are correct; the reasons are many and varied. I have been pondering this for well over a year, when I first realized that we were actually heading toward fascism/Nazism and that our country has been taken over from within. As far as the other person said, we are pampered and overfed here in the US, who can argue that? I work for orthopedic doctors and in the past five years the amount of obesity has increased, perhaps doubled. Is this solely because of our lifestyles or could it perhaps be from all the junk they put in our food (MSG & stuff)? Regardless, we cannot be brave and strong from our recliners, while driving to and fro in our SUV's. I'm sure you all have come across Quiet Weapons for Silent Wars... we are becoming exactly what "they" wanted us to become. As far as America goes, there are some that believe that America is the Mystery Babylon spoken of in the bible, Relevations 18. We are now title-holders to the land of Ancient Babylon, Iraq. Although many of the so-called Christians in our country do not truly believe in the occult, those behind the scenes, the Puppet Masters, do. Ever wonder why Bush looks like a puppet? Clinton, too? Because they are... they are just fulfilling the agenda of those above them -- bringing about the NWO, and America is next on the list to go down. China is their model. Mao was a bonesman, just like Bush. And Hillary is backed by Robert Murdoch. She may be presented at our savior -- "the democrats will save us" -- but she won't. Hegelian Dialectic, problem, reaction, solution. The signs are all around us PHYSICALLY AND SPIRITUALLY. There will be no rapture, just as there was no rapture for the Christians in China. There will be oppression and obedience to the State. Who would want to raise their children in Communist China? or fascist America? I would say --anywhere but here --and fast. HMMMM... troops at the borders... Is this to keep illegals out or keep us in?

by **Ted the dog** » Tue May 16, 2006 4:36 pm

"Why shouldn't people try to improve theur quality of life according to their goals and values, and not participate or accomodate the poison that has infected American society? I don't understand your comments, Ted, esp. about what the posted is 'basing' their take on -- I'd say the signs are abundant and self-evident." OK. but what I'm asking is, what made the original poster decide to leave now? What was it that brought it to a boiling point for them, specifically? None of what you said is lost on me, Starman. it's horrifying to be sure. But I fail to see the logic in the "grab your shit in the middle of the night and RUN RUN RUN till you're 'really far away'" mentality. If it's for other reasons, more power to them. But if it's because some vague random "signs" were interpreted by someone's minister somewhere, if it's because "things sorta, kinda, maybe, but not really," match up to some (mis)interpreted biblical prophecies, if it's because people are terrified, then IMO, that's not a good reason. Again, that's my opinion. Anyone can live any way they see fit, that's fine by me. "People need to dream and have hope for tomorrow. America's Katrina-model of responsible government and everybody working to solve problems and take care of urgent needs is NOT a very appealing promise of more to come. The Revolution can't happen too soon. If someone's soulis blighted living in the USA, and they have the opportunity to leave and resettle somewhere else, why NOT? I never said anything about one size fits all, I never said I felt everyone should stay or that living without oppression isn't important, etc etc. I'm not saying everyone should stay. By all means, if the original poster feels compelled to leave, then he/she should leave. I'm not a "love it or leave it" kind of guy. I'm more of the "love it if you love it, leave it if you feel like it" type. I couldn't care less if people leave or stay. And quite honestly, if you have the means and the ability, maybe it's a good idea. But not for me. I'm not leaving. In fact, I don't have the money even if I had the will.

by **havanagilla** » Tue May 16, 2006 4:54 pm

Vancouver

by **FourthBase** » Tue May 16, 2006 5:07 pm

Vansterdam...is that an accurate nickname? If only it weren't so cold...but with global warming and everything...

by **The Omega Man** » Tue May 16, 2006 5:08 pm

I cheer anyone who's made it over the fence, but for the rest of us it's gonna be fight, flight or die in a civilian work camp. Venezuela anyone?

by **meek** » Tue May 16, 2006 5:15 pm

I guess you would have to call it INTUITION. Or the image of the pot of frogs being brought to a boil. The fact that the average person cannot SEE THE THINGS RIGHT IN FRONT OF THEIR EYES!! Troops on our borders... The Iran issue looming... China & Russia on friendly terms... the declining dollar.. the popped housing bubble... and then this today: The Real Assault on America By Paul Craig Roberts The neoconservative Bush regime has adroitly used 9/11 to create fear of terrorism among Americans that blinds Americans to the Bush regime’s assault on our constitutional system. Americans have meekly acquiesced to the Bush regime’s brutal assaults on civil liberties, human rights, the separation of powers, and statutory law, because Americans have been brainwashed to believe that the “war on terror” takes precedence and cannot be waged under the rules established by the Founding Fathers. By elevating its “war on terror” above the US Constitution, the neoconservative Bush regime has made itself a far greater threat to Americans than are foreign terrorists. Two constitutional scholars, Timothy Lynch and Gene Healy, document the Bush regime’s forceful assault on the US Constitution in “Power Surge: The Constitutional Record of George W. Bush” released May 3 by the Cato Institute in Washington, D.C. (available at). Lynch and Healy show that Bush has failed in his most important responsibility “to preserve, protect and defend” the Constitution and, thus, is in violation of his sworn oath of office. The two scholars document the Bush regime’s “ceaseless push for power, unchecked by either the Courts or Congress” on issues ranging from war powers, habeas corpus, and federalism to free speech and unwarranted surveillance. Bush’s assault on the Constitution “should disturb people from across the political spectrum.” Alas, it doesn’t. Many Americans believe that Bush’s dictatorial powers will only be applied to terrorists. This belief is extremely foolish, because it means that “the liberty of every American rests on nothing more than the grace of the White House.” It has become commonplace to hear Americans dismiss the Bush regime’s illegal and unconstitutional exercise of power on the grounds that only those implicated in terrorism have anything to fear. These Americans need to ask themselves why, if only evildoers have anything to fear from government, the Founding Fathers bothered to write the Constitution? If we can trust the government the way Americans seem prepared to trust the Bush regime, we don’t need the Constitution. Indeed, why is a president inaugurated with his oath to defend the Constitution if we don’t need the Constitution to protect us from our government? If we can trust government, why go to all the trouble to have elections? Why not just get a dictator or a king or contract with a company to provide government? The question presents itself: Are Americans guilty of treason when they turn their backs on the Constitution? Treason is betrayal of country. And what defines country? In the United States the Constitution defines country. The Bush regime’s assault on the Constitution is an assault on America. Moreover, it is a far more dangerous and deadly assault than a terrorist assault on buildings. Ask yourself, gentle reader, what are we without the Constitution? Without the Constitution, how do we differ from the hapless subjects sent to Soviet and Nazi death camps? The Constitution protects our rights, and without our rights we are nothing. It has been widely reported, apparently without causing Americans any unease, that the Bush regime has awarded Halliburton $385 million to build concentration camps in the United States. Who are to be the inmates? Certainly not terrorists. The Bush regime has proven inept at catching terrorists, and those few who are captured are kept offshore out of the reach of the courts where they can be tortured and abused. The camps are certainly not for illegal aliens who both political parties want to give amnesty and citizenship. Concentration camps epitomize the horrors and inhumanity of the Stalin and Nazi era. Why is the Bush regime building concentration camps in America? The Bush regime’s war on terror is the equivalent to the Nazi regime’s Reichstag fire. It serves to blind people to the real assault. According to Bush, America is under terrorist attack because “they hate our freedoms.” But, as Lynch and Healy show, it is the Bush regime that is attacking our freedoms, removing their institutional protections, and making our liberties subject to the grace of the executive. COPYRIGHT CREATORS SYNDICATE, INC. Paul Craig Roberts [email him] was Assistant Secretary of the Treasury in the Reagan Administration. He is the author of Supply-Side Revolution : An Insider's Account of Policymaking in Washington; Alienation and the Soviet Economy and Meltdown: Inside the Soviet Economy, and is the co-author with Lawrence M. Stratton of The Tyranny of Good Intentions : How Prosecutors and Bureaucrats Are Trampling the Constitution in the Name of Justice. Click here for Peter Brimelow’s Forbes Magazine interview with Roberts about the recent epidemic of prosecutorial misconduct.

by **havanagilla** » Tue May 16, 2006 5:50 pm

4th, cold ? aren't you located in Boston ???? Vancouver has practically no snow, or at the most 10 days of muddy snow which in Boston is called summer. I spent time there in the winter and it was not much colder than jerusalem here. The sky is a bit gray, but the summer is perfect. -- On the other hand, I still remember one week in Boston...oh, it was so bad, and cold, I just wanted to run away as soon as possible. Vancouver is what you - the cold blooded Bostonians - call "sub saharan". -- If you weren't 24 and half, I'd ask you to start a campaign in Boston "adopt an Israeli" and start with me. (for the citizenship), and then I'd show you around vancouver, Stanley park and totems...you'd love it, beats any bizarre class in Harvard. The rest is not so alien to the New Englander (lots of old englanders there). Except it will be hard for you to see only white people around. there is one street with "multi culti", with token reps from each culture in the world. That's usually enough...;-) And everyone over there is into conspiracy. That's mainstream over there. Might turn you into a conservative, just to feel rebellious. -- best place I ever visited. highly recommended to move there.

by **FourthBase** » Tue May 16, 2006 6:11 pm

Thanks hava! I didn't know Vancouver was mild.

by **meek** » Wed May 17, 2006 12:29 am

INTRODUCTION This is S.R. Shearer of Antipas ministries: So now at last we come to the end of our series of Saturday broadcasts concerning the development of a National Security State in the United States. The purpose of these broadcasts has been to convince Christians - and anyone else who will listen - to get out of the United States as soon as possible. In our first article/broadcast, we covered what the government has been doing to restrict the right of ordinary citizens to travel about - especially those it has deemed to be inimical to its "New World Order" agenda. In our second article/broadcast, we covered the development of the United States into a Surveillance State in which the lives of ordinary citizens have been opened up to the all-seeing eye of the government; where there are no secrets, and citizens are encouraged to spy on other citizens. In our third article/broadcast, we covered what the government has been doing to make sure that it does not lose control of the streets to the those who oppose the agenda of the American New World Order System as it did during the Vietnam War. In our fourth article/broadcast we discussed the growing effort by the government to "disappear" its opponents and drop them into a "Super-Max" prison never to be heard of again. Finally, in our special broadcast on John Dimitri Negroponte we discussed how the government is making plans to introduce the American public to the fiendish and brutal methodologies it has been using in its slave-state system throughout the world. A LARGER ISSUE There is, however, a larger issue at stake here: OBEDIENCE insofar as the will of God is concerned. The fact is, whether you stay in the United States, or whether you "Come out," comes down to a matter of OBEDIENCE. And whether you are OBEDIENT to God or not comes down to your FAITH in Him who has commanded you to "Come out." If you have faith in Him, you will OBEY God regarding His commandment in Revelation 18:4: "And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, COME OUT OF HER, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues." (Rev. 18:4) If you don't have faith in Him, you will not obey this command. REAL FAITH LEADS TO OBEDIENCE Faith is NOTHING unless it leads to OBEDINECE. The apostle James writes: "What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works [i.e., OBEDIENCE]? can faith save him?" (James 2:14) The apostle continues: "Even so faith, if it hath not works [i.e., if it does not result in OBEDIENCE], is dead, being alone." (James 2:17) You say, dear brothers and sisters, that you have faith in Christ - but you refuse to OBEY His command in Revelation 18:4. That means that your faith is dead, seeing that it does not result in OBEDIENCE. FAITH MUST RESULT IN OBEDIENCE - if it does not, it reveals it's claimants to be LIARS! And so it is with regard to ALL those Christians in the United States who refuse to OBEY God insofar as His command in Revelation 18:4 is concerned - i.e., to come out of the United States - AND TO DO SO REGARDLESS OF THE COST! The apostle goes on to say: "Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works [i.e., I obey God when He speaks]: shew me thy faith without thy works [i.e., without obedience], and I will shew thee my faith by my works [i.e., obedience]. "Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble." (James 2:18-19) [In other words, the demons believe, but that doesn't mean they have faith; that doesn't mean that they obey God.] OBEDIENCE MUST COME BEFORE MORE KNOWLEDGE IS GIVEN This is the great TEST for ALL those in the United States who say that they are "followers of Christ" - i.e., that they are His servants: That by their obedience to God's command in Revelation 18:4 they will prove that their faith in Christ is genuine. If they fail here, they prove that their faith was nothing more than empty jangling. And more than even that, if they fail here they will fail EVERYWHERE insofar as Christ is concerned. Christians in the United States should not think that they can fail on this point (i.e., Rev. 18:4) and still be found faithful in all the rest; they should not think - even for a moment - that they can falter here and later be found faithful to resist the forces of hell at some later point under much more onerous conditions than those that presently exist. INDEED, I SAY THE TRUTH IN CHRIST WHEN I TELL YOU THAT UNTIL YOU OBEY GOD ON THIS MATTER, YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO GO ON WITH GOD. Instead, you will find that even the knowledge that you have in Him now will be taken from you, and you will be left with NOTHING insofar as the things of God are concerned. It is not without reason that Jesus said of the unfaithful servant: "... Take from him the ... [talent that I had given him], and give it to him that hath ten ... [talents]. "For I say unto you, That unto every one which hath shall be given; and from him that hath not [i.e., that prove themselves to be unfaithful servants], EVEN THAT HE HATH SHALL BE TAKEN AWAY FROM HIM." (Luke 19-24, 26) Obedience must come first, then knowledge as to how to go on will be imparted. This is precisely what happened to Abraham. The Bible says: "By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and HE WENT OUT, NOT KNOWING WHITHER HE WENT." (Hebrews 11:<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/glasses.gif ALT="8)"> WE HAVE BEEN CALLED AS SOJOURNERS First comes OBEDIENCE, then comes imparted knowledge of what you should do AFTER you have obeyed. Do not think that you can reverse this order! As Christians in the United States, you have been COMMANDED by God to leave the United States in answer to His holy DICTATE in Revelation 18:4. You have been commanded - just as your forebears before you - to be sojourners in the world with no permanent abode; transients and "passerbys" who - "... wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented; "(Of whom the world was not worthy<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)"> they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth." (Hebrews 11:37-3<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/glasses.gif ALT="8)"> Or do you think, perhaps, that God would require it of them, and not of you? The question before you is this: Are you one of those - like those who came before you in the faith - who by their OBEDIENCE - "... declared plainly that they seek a country. "And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned. "But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: WHEREFORE GOD IS NOT ASHAMED TO BE CALLED THEIR GOD: for he hath prepared for them a city." (Hebrews 11:14-16) OR are you one of those who will "draw back" (Hebrews 10:38a), and about whom the Lord will say on THAT DAY, "... my soul shall have no pleasure in them." (Hebrews 10:38b) YE CALL ME MASTER, AND SO I AM There's no room any more for us to "play around" with God's insofar as Revelation 18:4 is concerned; no room for being haphazard with regard to it, for being casual in connection with it, for being slipshod or careless with the plain meaning of this verse, no matter how uncomfortable or difficult its implementation might be: Our very souls are at stake. Believe me when I say, if ever there was a time for being unequivocal with God, now is that time. Jesus said: "Ye call me MASTER and LORD: and ye say well; FOR SO I AM." (John 13:13) <a href="http://www.antipasministries.com/html/file0000231.htm">www.antipasministries.com...000231.htm</a>

by **Mentalgongfu** » Wed May 17, 2006 12:58 am

run run away. and when totalitarianism spreads its dark wings over your new home, will you run again? and what will be left of America when all good souls flee? take a stand, in your own backyard. Be ready. If Globalization is the goal of the NWO, by whatever name it goes, to where will anyone escape? There are not enough shacks in the woods for us all. Said Mark Twain: "Loyalty to the country always. Loyalty to the government when it deserves it."

Does anyone else see that it is time to get out (of the US?)

Does anyone else see that it is time to get out (of the US?)

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You'll have no choice but to fight back

why now?

Re: ...vansterdam

Re: ...vansterdam

wow, i found this tonight... pretty sobering...

Amorica

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