Info on Italy's CIA-backed Dual State - P2, Gelli, Gladio

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Info on Italy's CIA-backed Dual State - P2, Gelli, Gladio

Postby Gouda » Wed Sep 06, 2006 10:57 am

Jeff's video link to the interview with Licio Gelli inspired me to go on a hunt for Gelli's infamous P2 fascist "plan" for Italy, a paper called "Democratic Rebirth Plan", or “Plan for a Democratic Revival” (<!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>Piano di Rinascita Democratica</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END-->, 1984) which is now part of the extensive (but incomplete, of course) Gelli archives which he recently handed over to his hometown of Pistoia... (minus, the interview documentary notes, important files on Uruguay, inter alia.) But I could only find Italian versions of the plan on the web. But this summary gives you the idea: It "amounted to a declaration of the lodge's intent; essentially, Gelli's objectives were to form a new political and economical elite to lead Italy towards a more authoritarian form of democracy, in an anti-communist perspective." OK, no surprise there, but I was hoping to read the details. We can see this plan's shadow growing in other places, both familiar and far. <br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.tscholars.com/encyclopedia/Propaganda_Due">www.tscholars.com/encyclo...aganda_Due</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.stragi.it/index.php?pagina=vicenda&par=p2">www.stragi.it/index.php?p...nda&par=p2</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br>(Regarding the interview, watched it quickly and I had some helpful Italian translation: Gelli was all plausible deniability with regard to the actual murders and P2 culpability in the terrorism, but was all boastful pride with regard to the open agenda of his fascist brotherhood. He stated that he would do it all again, and that thankfully, their plans were working anyway. Yes, lots of cooperation with americans. Downplayed the ritualistic elements of his lodge. He also predicted Prodi would come out on top, regrettably, in the coming election with Berlusconi by a very slim margin - Interview was recorded just before that election. Hope to see it again and get more info.)<br><br>***<br><br>I also wanted to post the following informative working paper with great background analysis on the issue of a the post-WW II Italian parallel/invisible government operating in synch with US/CIA-dominated transnational capital/fascist interests in what we know now as the P2 lodge and NATO's (Gladio) Strategy of Tension. The paper is written by researcher Rosella Dossi, titled "Italy's Invisible Government" (2001). <br><br>It may be a worthy resident in the Data Dump with other P2 material. Lots of citations on the Bologna and Piazza Fontana bombings, the Aldo Moro murder, P2, the Red brigades... <br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.cerc.unimelb.edu.au/publication/CERCWP012001.pdf">www.cerc.unimelb.edu.au/p...012001.pdf</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br>Some select material developing her (in some ways incomplete) thesis and (some debatable) points that fascist elites in Italy relied on the national security model and elites of the USA in a phased construction of a covert, parallel, <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>de facto</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> government within the legitimate state. This as an intermediate stage towards eventually instituting fascist, international capitalist rule: <br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Few scholars have investigated the issue of an Invisible Government. The topic has been neglected by political science....Furthermore, on a theoretical level, scholars who delve into the topic cannot agree on a concept of a Dual State, or Invisible Government.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--> <!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Increasingly, according to many analysts, states are not the most important and powerful actors in the international system. Non-state actors, such as multi-national corporations, are usurping that role (Smith, 1986, p. 197).<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--> <!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Gramsci tried to explain the failure of the Marxist prediction that the capitalist state would fall because of its own contradictions by theorizing that in a capitalist society the social and political values of the elite enjoy an “ideological hegemony”. These values are then promulgated through the mass media and the bourgeois educational system (Bellamy and Schecter, 1993).<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--> <!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>According to Dryzek, the only alternative to the welfare state could very well be a dictatorship (1996, p. 30). I postulate that between the two there is an intermediate step, and that is the Invisible Government. The Dual State is already implicit in Smith’s remark about the “dual role” of the State and the impermeability of certain areas of state activity to democracy. The Invisible Government, in contrast, is overlooked when authors comment on an authoritarian government as the only alternative to the welfare state.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--> <!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Prior to the fall of the Berlin Wall, Italy had the largest Communist party outside of the Communist world. At its peak in 1976, one Italian out of three voted for the Italian Communist Party (the PCI). Why, then, did the Italian state fail to pacify its working class through the welfare state and cultural hegemony?<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--> <!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Based on these premises, I would argue that, when in a representative democracy the dominant class — the elite — fails to maintain dominance through open and legitimate means, and that elite does not have the option of maintaining power through the establishment of an overtly authoritarian regime, the elite will resort to the establishment of an invisible government, into which to channel the political power that has been in part taken away,secretly, from the legitimate government of the country.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--> <!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>It was in 1991 that the term “Parallel State” was used for the first time in parliament, with the final report of the Massacres Commission to Parliament by MP Colajanni: "It appears, rather, that a number of criminal elements have found fertile ground within the State. The most conspicuous thread connecting the several cases is in fact the deviant behaviour of considerable sectors within the secret services (and more in general within the public administration).<br>[…]<br>It is the phenomenon that political literature has for some time defined as “Dual State” or “Parallel State”: a pathology of the de-facto Constitution, by which within the State itself a network of subjects performing criminal actions is built. This creates a sort of “anti-juridical system”, mirror image of the legal one..."<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--> <!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Simplifying, the strategy of the IG from the end of the Second World War to the mid-1980s can be roughly divided into three periods:<br>• an establishing period, which lasted until the failed De Lorenzo coup d’état in 1964;<br>• the “Strategy of Tension”, which lasted until the failed coups d’état in 1974; and<br>• the Plan for a Democratic Revival, lasting until the discovery of the Secret Masonic Lodge P2 and arguably, until the 1990s.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--> <!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Once again simplifying for the sake of clarity, the main actions taken during this establishment phase were:<br>• re-establishment of the Mafia and Masonry; blocking the purge against Fascists; re-establishment of the secret service in a subordinate position to the CIA;<br>• the establishment of several secret associations, comprising military personnel and civilians; and<br>• indoctrination of the members of the IG in non-orthodox warfare.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--> <!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>It is important at this stage to highlight strong tensions within the IG during this second phase. The members of the IG were divided in two camps, named by Gianni Flamini as “the military coup party” and “the political coup party”. The former comprised the hawks in the IG: the hard-liners who thought that the solution to the Italian predicament was a military coup. They saw the Socialists in government as the first step to the Communists gaining power, and thought this could not be tolerated. This faction comprised the Italian Army, the Pentagon and extreme right-wing groups. The latter faction thought their aim would be more effectively accomplished by more subtle means. What was needed was not a successful coup, but the threat of a coup d’état, designed to keep the Italian public under “Chilean Shock,” that is, by constantly reminding people of what would happen to a country that elected a communist regime into power.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--> <!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>According to Italian Philosophy Professor Emanuele Severino, terrorist violence was purposely administered in small doses. He commented that “terrorism does not unleash a destructive power capable of overthrowing our social system, but enough to maintain it under constant pressure”.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--> <!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Third Phase: The Plan for a Democratic Revival - 1974 signaled a change in strategy on the part of the US. The most grossly dictatorial European regimes, such as those in Greece and Portugal, lost American support, and subsequently fell. In Italy, this change of direction meant the abandonment of the strategy of tension in favour of more subtle action. The new aim was the institution of a presidential republic in the American style, with stronger powers given to the executive; a parliament with two major democratic parties instead of the countless ones present at the time; tame trade unions; and subtle control of the press. The document describing the Plan was the “Plan for a Democratic Revival” (Piano di Rinascita Democratica, 1984).<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--> <!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Access to the Invisible Government did not come automatically from occupying a high position in the legal government. Politicians had to be cleared by the CIA according to their “commitment to the democratic ideal”.16 For this reason the members of the Invisible Government, no matter of what party, were often referred to as the “Atlantic Party”.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--> <!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>My hypothesis of the existence and working of the Invisible Government has elite theory as one of its bases. That is, it presupposes the existence of a class believing itself more suited than the rest of the population to rule. This premise takes us into the debate about “where power lies”. Is power spread out among many different and competing agents, as Dahl argues, or is it in the hands of an elite — or several competing elites — as elite theorists argue (Mill, Dornhoff, Mosca, Pareto, Miliband, and Lukes, among others).<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--> <!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Another interesting example is constituted by the two documents at the basis of the third phase of the IG: the “Memorandum on the Political Situation in Italy,” and the “Plan for a Democratic Revival”...According to the documents, one of the consequences of the political crisis was the “strong tendency of each single citizen to a more active participation in public life,” which was seen as a negative point<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--> <!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>If a written de-facto constitution exists at all, this consists of the several USA and NATO documents written on the subject, such as National Security Council (NSC) resolutions. That Italy was seen by the NSC as the most troubled spot in the anti-Communist war is indicated by the fact that the very first resolution was devoted to Italy. NSC 1/1, a top-secret report issued on 17 November 1947, wasentitled “The Position of the United States with Respect to Italy” (quoted in Willan, 1991, p. 20).<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--> <!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Americans justify their actions in setting up an IG in Italy by saying that democracy has be to saved at any cost...This is the official line. However, official documents consulted, secret and otherwise, time and again refer to — rather than the defence of democracy — “the interests of the United States” (see for example Supplement B, 1984). Ultimately, the US interest was for markets to remain open. A communist regime would have closed the Italian market to American goods.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--> <!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>If the reason given by the people implicated in the IG is true, then we should have seen from the mid 1990s a disappearance, whether gradual or drastic, of the phenomenon. If the IG, on the other hand, is the mechanism used to perpetuate a system of power threatened not by Communism, but by grassroots democracy (in fact, even by a “thin” democracy exercised only by a vote for the chosen party) then in all probabilities the IG would still be there, maybe after having undergone a sort of genetic mutation to adapt to changed circumstances.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Info on Italy's CIA-backed Dual State - P2, Gelli, Gladi

Postby chiggerbit » Wed Sep 06, 2006 12:15 pm

Yeah, I couldn't believe how the CIA kidnapped those people right in front of the Italians' noses like that. But, then I didn't know about Gladio, that the CIA was Italy's other government. Whew, huge topic to tackle, hard to condense.<br><br>When it was accepted during WWII that we wouldn't be going after Russia when we finished with Germany, our government developed the plan Gladio, involving "stay-behind" networks, which prepared for the eventual Soviet invasion of European countries. These were covert paramilitary organizations set up by the fledgling CIA. They weren't limited to just Italy. I still haven't figured out how many European countries were involved, but Scandinavia was one of the targets. William Colby, who would go on to later become head of the CIA, was one of the operatives in the Scandanavian stay-behind networks. What's interesting is that it appears that Opus Dei was a central part of this organization. And from what I gather, William Colby was an Opus Dei member himself. After Scandanavia, Colby was later assigned to Rome. Also interesting is that I've seen indications on the net that many CIA people are Opus Dei. After Rome, Colby would be sent on to Vietnam, where he developed the Phoenix Program. Another interesting factoid is that Vietnam had a significant Catholic population, about 10%, which is amazingly high in that part of the world. I've been wondering where Gladio left off and Opus Dei bagan. And did Vietnam start out as a Gladio or Gladio-spin-off organization?<br><br>Also interesting is that we now have three Supreme Court judges who are either Opus Dei members or have connections to Opus Dei--hard to tell which,as it's so secretive. Did Gladio leave off on the other side of the Atlantic?<br><br>Anyway, the Soviet invasion never happened. What might have been more dangerous, in the Gladio people's eyes, though, was that the socialists were becoming more and more appealing to the citizens of the various European democracies. Can't have that, now can we? So the mission changed somewhat. Enter black flag operations, assassinations, etc., with an eye to affecting the politics of the countries, by hook or by crook. All of this operated under the NATO umbrella. <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=chiggerbit@rigorousintuition>chiggerbit</A> at: 9/6/06 11:16 am<br></i>
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Re: Info on Italy's CIA-backed Dual State - P2, Gelli, Gladi

Postby chiggerbit » Wed Sep 06, 2006 1:51 pm

<!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://gladio.quickseek.com/">gladio.quickseek.com/</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br>"...The clandestine international network covered the European NATO membership, including Belgium, Denmark, France, Germany, Greece, Italy, Luxemburg, Netherlands, Norway, Portugal, Spain, and Turkey, as well as the neutral European countries of Austria, Finland, Sweden and Switzerland....? <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Info on Italy's CIA-backed Dual State - P2, Gelli, Gladi

Postby chiggerbit » Wed Sep 06, 2006 4:03 pm

Misinformation about "Gladio/Stay Behind" Networks Resurfaces

Thirty Year-Old Soviet Forgery Cited by Researchers

http://tinyurl.com/lkxk3n
Last edited by chiggerbit on Fri Sep 11, 2009 12:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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misdirection

Postby robertdreed » Mon Sep 11, 2006 8:32 am

The government document highlights a forgery as if it were the sole source of evidence about agents provocateur terrorism under the aegis of Gladio...%#$*@ <p></p><i></i>
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Re: misdirection

Postby Gouda » Mon Sep 11, 2006 9:15 am

Good point. And the US government would never fake it's own documents in order to later discredit it. (The real supplement B is probably locked in a lodge vault somewhere.) <br><br>But maybe it was just a sloppy forgery by the soviets. The 1980 hearings before the U.S. House of Representatives Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence proved it was. <br><br>More from State:<br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Some of the claims are clearly absurd. Grivas accused Greece’s “stay behind” network, known as “Sheepskin” or “Red Sheepskin,” which he says was “organized by Greek special forces and the CIA,” of assassinating CIA station chief Richard Welch in Athens in 1975. Thus, Grivas bizarrely accuses the CIA of playing a role in the assassination of one of its own senior officials.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--> Yes, how absurd, how bizarre. <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=gouda@rigorousintuition>Gouda</A> at: 9/11/06 7:19 am<br></i>
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Re: misdirection

Postby chiggerbit » Mon Sep 11, 2006 9:33 am

I had been thinking that the entire stay-behind network as "Gladio", but I see they each had their own name. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: misdirection

Postby rain » Mon Sep 11, 2006 9:50 am

have you found this one chiggers ?<br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.strategytalk.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=36554&">www.strategytalk.org/phpB...p?p=36554&</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>how absurd, how bizarre<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>LOL. Yes.<br>the moral of the story might be<br>don't go boating at night. <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=rain@rigorousintuition>rain</A> at: 9/11/06 7:56 am<br></i>
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FM30-31B

Postby Rigorous Intuition » Mon Sep 11, 2006 9:56 am

<!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://cryptome.org/cia-FM30-31B.htm">cryptome</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--> has a good page evaluating the authenticity of the document. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: FM30-31B

Postby Dreams End » Mon Sep 11, 2006 10:17 am

I'd like to get more informed about all this. First question: how much of the case against Gladio is made from this one document? And, am I right in assuming that no one disputes the existence of Gladio but merely suggest that there is no CIA backed "stay behind" movement and that these are all just homegrown fascists?<br><br>Also, in other countries who had similar, were they also connected to Masonic lodges or was that unique to Italy. Sorry for the "newbie" questions. I <p></p><i></i>
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Re: FM30-31B

Postby Rigorous Intuition » Mon Sep 11, 2006 10:32 am

I think the case for Gladio has been made many times over (for instance, through the admissions of its participants). What the document provides is a one-step summation of Gladio's terrorist rationale. One document is easier to discredit than decades of misdeeds, which is why the State Department singles it out to stand for the whole.<br><br><br>I think this is an instructive quote from <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>Covert Action Information Bulletin</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END-->, via Cryptome. Look at the pattern of response: initial silence (hoping it sinks?); then the warning that publication would be "inopportune"; then, after publication, word that it was a forgery, in a letter which claimed there was also no attachment "A," which has proven a lie. <br><br><br><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>Is The Document Genuine?<br><br>When the document was referred to in Turkey, there was no response from the U.S. When it was published in full in Spain, there was no response. When the Embassy heard that it was to be published in Italy, they informed the publisher of a major magazine that it would be "inopportune" to do so, and when it appeared that it would nevertheless be published, the Embassy announced that the document was a forgery -- in a letter which said there was "no" supplement to FM 30-31, a statement which was itself untrue.<br><br>It is hard to imagine that the document is not genuine. The format, style and classification stampings appear consistent with other military supplements, and the document is filled with authentic military phraseology. If it is a forgery, why did it not come out in 1975? If it is a forgery, why did a high Embassy official describe its publication as "inopportune?" Military intelligence veterans who have, at CovertAction's request, looked at a copy of the document, all say that it appears genuine. Of course, the government could declassify Supplement A. If it has nothing to do with the recruitment of agents, then the document is surely a forgery; but if it does? Regardless of the dispute, we believe, as do publishers in several other countries already, that the document is real, and that in any event our readers should see it and decide for themselves. </em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--><br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: FM30-31B

Postby chiggerbit » Mon Sep 11, 2006 10:45 am

<!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>When the document was referred to in Turkey, there was no response from the U.S. When it was published in full in Spain, there was no response. When the Embassy heard that it was to be published in Italy, they informed the publisher of a major magazine that it would be "inopportune" to do so, and when it appeared that it would nevertheless be published, the Embassy announced that the document was a forgery -- in a letter which said there was "no" supplement to FM 30-31, a statement which was itself untrue.</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--><br><br><br>Funny that it was Italy that finally tripped their trigger. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: FM30-31B

Postby Dreams End » Mon Sep 11, 2006 11:30 am

Just hate to see it devolve into an MJ-12 kinda thing.<br><br>The fact that it appears genuine isn't too impressive as if it were a Soviet forgery, surely they'd know how to do it. MJ-12 documents, for that matter, appeared so genuine that the debate turned to extreme arcana of font type and date format. <br><br>Anyway, it's good to stress that it's only one piece of the puzzle. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: FM30-31B

Postby Rigorous Intuition » Mon Sep 11, 2006 11:38 am

The document surfaced nearly 10 years before Gladio and the stay-behind armies were uncovered and then publically admitted, which I think speaks to its authenticity.<br><br>Here's a relevant extract from Daniele Ganser's <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>NATO's Secret Armies</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END-->:<br><br>Yet as secrets can never be kept forever the Turkish newspaper <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>Baris</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> in 1973 in the midst of a whole range of mysterious acts of violence and brutality which shocked the Turkish society announced the publication of the FM 30-31. Thereafter the <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>Baris</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> journalist who had come into the possession of the secret manual disappeared and was never heard of again.... [she adds in footnote: Upon the fall of the dictatorship in 1976 the Spanish newspaper <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>Triunfo</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> published excerpts despite heavy pressures to prevent the publication.... When the Italian monthly <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>Controinformazione</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> printed the US terror manual the issues were confiscated.] After the discover of the secret NATO armies across Europe researchers started to investigate the direct link between FM 30-31 and the stay-behind armies. Allan Francovich in his BBC documentary on Gladio presented a copy of FM 30-31B to senior US officials. Ray Cline, Deputy CIA Director for Intelligence in the 1960s, confirmed: "This is an authentic document." William Colby, CIA Director from 1973 to 1976 and closely involved with operation Gladio and the stay-behinds in numerous countries of Western Europe, in front of the camera, was reluctant to face this dark side of his country and claimed: "I have never heard of it." Also CIA propaganda expert Michael Ledeen shied away from the sensitive document and claimed it to be a Soviet forgery. While Licio Gelli, the Italian Freemason and leader of the anti-Communist P2 frankly told Francovich: "The CIA gave it to me."<br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: FM30-31B

Postby chiggerbit » Mon Sep 11, 2006 11:57 am

Check out the date. Dang, I wish she were still around.<br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.newsmakingnews.com/mbtape611,8,22,83.htm">www.newsmakingnews.com/mb...,22,83.htm</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.newsmakingnews.com/mbspiderweb2,21,83.htm">www.newsmakingnews.com/mb...,21,83.htm</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--> <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=chiggerbit@rigorousintuition>chiggerbit</A> at: 9/11/06 9:59 am<br></i>
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