Martial law in New Orleans

by **Dreams End** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 3:25 pm

Just saw the big press conference with all the various secretaries. They don't really have anything informative to say. But, at least they are now trying for the appearance of being on top of things. CNN still pushing on the "what about the looting" question. In fact, it was a CNN reporter who brought it up at the press conference. Afterwards, another CNN anchor reiterated about the "looting" we are seeing. Playing to the side was video of people carting stuff off from a grocery store. Folks, if they can't loot, they die. Period. Given that the entire city of New Orleans is a total loss and that the odds of recovering any merchandise of any value whatsoever are very low, I don't even understand why anyone cares about the looting. I saw a family that had grabbed some dresses from one store. Well, they aren't gonna do them much good, but I just can't see wasting a single minute dealing with that when there are people needing rescue. And if someone gets a rolex out of it. Hey, a little bonus for the destruction of their entire city. Just saw starman's post. Yeah, CNN is clearly speaking from a "script." How else to explain how they hit the issue more even than Fox and how it was the CNN reporter to ask the question about looting at the press conference. Careful about the video footage of canals. They are using old footage. In addition, one canal has water flowing back into it as the level in the canal is lower than that of the already flooded town next to it. However, other levees still flowing as far as I know. The contradictions in the "sandbagged" or not reports are strange. Chertoff seemed to simply write the whole idea off. Not in so many words, but he was invited to talk about the steps to do so and he didn't really suggest any possible ways to fix the levees. Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=dreamsend@rigorousintuition>Dreams End</A> at: 8/31/05 1:29 pm

by **Starman** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 5:03 pm

Fox's live Studio B report by Shephard Smith on the downtown overpass I-5 and Orleans exit 235, reporting on the incredible communication ineptness has at least done a good job on bringing attention to the awesome lack of response to the crisis of displaced refugees from the projects -- masses of African-American poor people with nothing, not even told what to do or where to go --which Shepard said some folks had been on that bridge for two-days, trying to talk to folks finally struggling out on their own with small kids, looking shell-shocked, describing a serious crisis of lack of water and food, with aged, infirm, disabled, blind and ill people stranded in their waterlogged neighborhoods, with apparently NO rescue efforts being undertaken yet. Just, incredible. I don'tunderstand why someone competant can't authorize an effective drift-boat rescue operation into some of those neighborhoods -- ya just gotta coordinate shallow-bottom boats with trucks that can drive thru 2-3 ft of water and get folks to an evacuation point, ya gotta have some kinda plan, man ... Ah, first reports I've seen that the sandbagging of 17th street canal apparently had been going on all day yesterday, by FOX's reporter Keating talking to Shepard on his overpass post; At least also he's been talking about the enormous toxic-sludge disaster. I hardly EVER watch Fox, but at least on some of their reporting it's better than what CNNhas been cranking out -- although it's hard to miss the obvious lionization of Bush -- How the hell does THAT work, anyway? I mean, what's the payoff-connection link? The glorification-skewed message of Bush taking-charge and acting like he knows what's up is sickening. I imagine whole neighborhoods are gonna have to be condemned because the flooding couldn't be minimized. Tragically, all this was well-understood as a distinct possibility: 5-part series on Hurricane Danger: Washing Away The Times Picayune: Link to Hurricane Center <a href="http://www.nola.com/hurricane/?/washingaway/">www.nola.com/hurricane/?/washingaway/</a> I just heard on CNN, health officials are saying some 250,000 to 300,000 people stayed behind in NO (could that be right? I thought the total pop was a half-million? So if 80 percent evacuated, ... the numbers don't add up), and computer models predict a third could be dead, drowned. I'm not sure I heard this right. But the former surgeon-general is discussing how critical it is to get everyone evacuated to prevent immense loss of life from the incredible health-hazard. There seems to be a disconnect between what people are saying and what's being done. And NOW CNN is reporting on the crowds of refugees on the downtown overpasses who are in dire need of water and information, to be told what to do -- but I don't see ANY evacuation or resupply or medical assistance ongoing. Why can't rescue-operations fly helicopters onto the bridge to take people off? How appalling. The big-wheels press conference seemed to be about saying what an excellant job everybody is doing, despite the magnitude of this crisis -- and too, I noted Chertoff's utter failure to answer the question about levee damage-repair. He's evidently pretty clueless. So now America has a million internal refugees, who have nothing to go back to in New Orleans --for at least the next six months. Isn't it appropriate to question whether New Orleans should even be rebuilt? Considering that climate-projections are for increasing numbers of strong storms and rising seas while New Orleans keeps subsiding? Starman

by **seemslikeadream** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 5:27 pm

I'm going to delete my post, this was just such awful news 100,000 dead and I was stunned, didn't realize you had posted it here. Newsweek (Fineman): A political hurricane is gathering force I know, I know... Fineman is a blah, blah, blah. The reason I posted it was for the last part of this articlce. Hopefully this bodes well coming from this beltway stooge. I hope this prediction he makes comes true: WASHINGTON - For years the Pentagon¡¯s standing readiness plans required the country to be able to fight two major wars simultaneously. But no one anticipated what we face now: a war in Mesopotamia and another along the Mississippi. We have journalist Malcolm Gladwell to thank for the idea that every social phenomenon has a dramatic ¡°tipping point.¡± It doesn¡¯t always work that way. And yet Hurricane Katrina is just such a moment. We are a big, strong country ¡ª and New Orleans will, somehow, survive ¡ª but you do get the sense, as President Bush finally arrived here after a month-long vacation, that a political hurricane is gathering force, and it¡¯s going to hit the capital any day. As we approach the fourth anniversary of 9/11, Americans are facing a different anguish from a different, but no less iconic city. New Yorkers, on behalf of the rest of us, absorbed Al Qaeda¡¯s attack and came back stronger than ever. We begin the fifth year of a ¡°war against terror¡± that has brought some gains, but has cost 2,000 lives and half a trillion dollars ¡ª and there is no end in sight. Story continues below ¡ý advertisement And now: the Storm and the Flood, which have inundated the Gulf Coast in deadly water. This is, literally, an invasion of the homeland, and it will require a war-like response from a nation and a military already stretched thin. National Guard officials insist that they have enough men and women on hand to do the job, but common sense tells you that they could use the others stationed abroad. The U.S. Navy is dispatching supply ships to the region, but battling the waters that cover the region will require many more resources. Andy Jackson won the Battle of New Orleans. Will George Bush? His poll numbers already at near-record low levels, he will have to oversee the rescue of the Gulf in the midst of a changing climate in Washington. The public¡¯s sense of where America is headed ¡ª the ¡°right direction/wrong track¡± numbers ¡ª are dismal. Gas prices are high and unsettling. Congressional Democrats, reluctant since 9/11 to take on a ¡°war president,¡± finally have decided to do so. And Republicans, knowing that they¡¯ll be facing the voters a year from now, are beginning to seek ways to distance themselves from him. This president doesn¡¯t need Karl Rove to explain the political importance of disaster relief. It¡¯s something Bush responds to naturally, and he knows the risks of seeming to be an insensitive, to-the-manor-born president. When hurricanes hit Florida before the last election, he and his brother, Jeb, were on the case, Big Time. Now three Red States are hit, hard, and the challenge is likely to be much greater. Meanwhile, he will have to preside over yet another 9/11 anniversary, this one coming at a time when most Americans have decided that the war in Iraq shouldn¡¯t have been fought and that it hasn¡¯t made us safer at home. Bush will face calls not only for the release of more oil from the Strategic Petroleum Reserve, but for a wholesale consideration of his energy and environmental policies. And just after Labor Day, hearings will start in the Judiciary Committee on the nomination of Judge John G. Roberts, Jr. Expect the Democrats to drop their caution and go after him with all they¡¯ve got. They¡¯re coming to the conclusion that they have nothing to lose, and they are being pushed in that combative direction by a grassroots base furious at the congressional party for not having taken a tougher line against the president months if not years ago. But now they sense blood in the rising water. <a href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9143849">www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9143849</a> <a href="http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4531118">www.democraticunderground...04x4531118</a> Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=seemslikeadream@rigorousintuition>seemslikeadream</A> at: 8/31/05 3:31 pm

by **Dreams End** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 5:33 pm

Starman, the numbers come from New Orleand combined with the surrounding areas. total of 1.5 million or so. 20 percent makes 300,000. The man interviewed said their computer models suggest 1/3 of those dead. However, the slowly rising water as opposed to more catastrophic predictions may have mitigated that somewhat. Though I've seen the footage. A few hundred wandering. A few thousand on the interstates. 20,000 (so they say) at the Superdome. Where IS everyone else?

by **Dreams End** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 5:41 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Tidal shift Maj. Gen. Don Reily, head of the U.S. Corps of Engineers' storm recovery operation, said at midday Wednesday that Lake Pontchartrain water level has dropped and has “equalized” with flood-waters in the city. That means water has begun to recede, flowing back into the lake, at a rate of approximately a half-inch an hour. The general said this should continue, except during a high tide “later in the evening.” “As it (the water) recedes this will help” the attempt by the Corps and the New Orleans Sewerage and Water Board to temporarily plug the breach in the 17th Street Canal and drive sheet-pilings and also possibly rock into the junction of the canal at Lake Pontchartain,” the general said. In the two-pronged operation, the huge sandbags and “concrete jersey-barriers are being dumped into the flood-wall breach,” by the Corps, the general said at a press conference in Baton Rouge early Wednesday afternoon where a New Orleans Sewer and Water official and U.S. Sens. Mary Landrieu and David Vitter also spoke. “We’ll certainly have to build it up quite a bit just to restore temporary integrity,” the general said. If these two attempts are successful, and the lake recedes more, the next step will start as soon as the city gets power to their pumps, he said. The temporary plug at the lakeshore will then be removed so that pumping station Number 6, which he said handles about 10,000 cubic feet of water per second, can began pushing water out of that canal into the lake, he said. “It should take a minimum of 30 days to get the water out of the system,” he said. “Then of course after that there’s quite a lot of sediment and debris and a lot of material to be removed, and it will take much longer to get that,” he said. “We have a contractor with three barges of rock that’s out on the lake now,” he said. “The challenge is getting access to the site –- inside the canal to the flood-wall, but it possibly can be used at the entrance to the lake although we prefer to use something more temporary that we can remove quickly.” From <a href="http://www.nola.com/newslogs/breakingtp/index.ssf?/mtlogs/nola_Times-Picayune/archives/2005_08.html#075446">www.nola.com/newslogs/bre...tml#075446</a><hr></blockquote> This is talking about tides, here. Hopefully some temporary relief. Thing is, I just heard a reporter talking about how the water was still rising. Anyway, Meserve on CNN interviewed a VERY angry refugee in Baton Rouge. Where's the President? And they knew this would happen but didn't do anything in advance. Those were the themes Meserve said were typical of everyone she'd been talking to.

by **dbeach** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 5:59 pm

"Anyway, Meserve on CNN interviewed a VERY angry refugee in Baton Rouge. Where's the President? And they knew this would happen but didn't do anything in advance. Those were the themes Meserve said were typical of everyone she'd been talking to.' AWOL occupant bush drooling for his most coveted prize Martial Law in all 50 states

by **AnnaLivia** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 6:16 pm

I’ve turned the tv on, too. it's impossible not to ache for the suffering and wince at the time delays in help reaching the victims. A reporter on msnbc was in the very poorest area of Biloxi and told of a furniture-store owner who described how some of the local residents came to him before the storm to ask to borrow enough money for a tank of gas (which he said he didn’t have the money for). The hurricane hit at the end of the month, and SS (etc.) funds had run out for the month. so the people just went home to ride it out, having no other choice. May be hundreds or thousands from that area dead ………..why?…….. because they live meager paycheck to meager paycheck, always on the verge of desperation, and didn’t have money left for a tank of gas at the end of the month. In the richest country ever to exist on the planet. While oil company investors are reaping windfall profits. And while the fedgov is “politely declining” generous offers of direct help from foreign nations (how dare they?)! The reporter flashed his thumb over his shoulder and said “These are the people who’s bodies they’re pulling out from the rubble behind me.” How many fewer people would be in harm’s way now, if only every family had had the economic resources to get away? Saw the press conference, too. They sound like they KNOW we’re watching intently for abuses of power, if you ask me. they really emphacized over and over how this is all being controlled at the state level, and the fedgov is in supportive role only. But they did make clear that the Prez has powers to impose “stricter measures” “should he decide that becomes necessary” and that not only are there units on alert for that scenario, but there are ALWAYS units on alert for that scenario. I am so stumped that people can’t see that it would be light-years better to ensure that all people have decent wages rather than be made to be reliant on the fedgov for their survival. What comes to mind is the way Indian Affairs spends $40,000 per year on every man, woman, and child in the Indian nations…and the result is they live in the poorest counties in America. For chrissakes just fork the 40,000 over to them, and they’ll take care of themselves much better. Same principle in Biloxi. Prevention is so much cheaper and far less painless………….when will decide to prevent the extremes of wealth and poverty that are killing people? before the next evacuation?

by **antiaristo** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 8:12 pm

Possibly related. The Market went up today.

by **dbeach** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 9:25 pm

"Prevention is so much cheaper and far less painless………….when will decide to prevent the extremes of wealth and poverty that are killing people? before the next evacuation?" kiling peole by wars and whatever means possible is the bush way..this USA ain';t going nowhwre until the criminal elites are exposed

by **Col Quisp** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 9:58 pm

From the Katrina blog: 7:32 P.M. - N.O. Mayor Ray Nagin declares Martial law in the city and directs the city's 1,500-person police force to do "whatever it takes" to gain back control of the city. He will also enlist the aid of troops. What does "whatever it takes" mean??????? Shoot to kill? And I thought Nagin was a good guy.

by **Dreams End** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 10:39 pm

Yeah, FOX started going that way with their reporting. Trying to keep up with CNN I guess. One reporter interviewed a cop who said he'd just like to shoot looters and then tag them with the word "looter" and leave their bodies. Nice. Put that water down...now die.

by **Dreams End** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 10:47 pm

<img src="http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/msnbc/Components/Art/COVER/050831/MEGA_Crackdown_6p.jpg" style="border:0;"/> Any questions?

by **Dreams End** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 10:52 pm

Excerpt from article that that picture linked to: <a href="http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/msnbc/Components/Art/COVER/050831/MEGA_Crackdown_6p.jpg">msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/msnb...own_6p.jpg</a> <blockquote>Quote:<hr>NEW ORLEANS - Mayor Ray Nagin ordered 1,500 police officers to leave their search-and-rescue mission Wednesday night and return to the streets of the beleagured city to stop looting that has turned increasingly hostile. ---snip--- Before Nagin's order to crack down on looters, police said their first priority remained saving lives, and mostly just stood by and watched. On Tuesday, an officer who tried to intervene was shot in the head and critically wounded. <hr></blockquote>

by **human** » Thu Sep 01, 2005 12:24 am

white people "find" things <a href="http://news.yahoo.com/photo/050830/photos_ts_afp/050830071810_shxwaoma_photo1">news.yahoo.com/photo/0508...oma_photo1</a> black people "loot" things <a href="http://news.yahoo.com/photo/050830/480/ladm10208301530">news.yahoo.com/photo/0508...0208301530</a>

by **heath7** » Thu Sep 01, 2005 12:26 am

'whatever-it-takes' cops let loose at dusk to deal with roving bands of armed looters; all mixed together in a cocktail of chaos. The good cops are walking into their deaths, and the bad cops will shoot 'em, tag 'em, and leave 'em (the 'looters'). This is all going to get very ugly (by daybreak I'll bet); examples are about to be made.

Martial law in New Orleans

Re: ditto

re: ditto

Re:sorry Starman

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waters receding?

awol

dying for dollars

Re: dying for dollars

Re: dying for dollars

More Martial Law

Re: More Martial Law

Re: More Martial Law

Re: More Martial Law

blatently racist coverage

Re: More Martial Law

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