Blasts heard before levee broke

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Blasts heard before levee broke

Postby GDN01 » Wed Sep 07, 2005 1:25 am

I just spoke to a good friend who has lots of family in New Orleans - some still unaccounted for. I trust him completely and we were discussing the awful news that keeps coming out about what has happened in New Orleans. I remarked that we probably hadn't heard the worst of it. He said, "I'll tell you the worst thing I've heard and I heard it from my mother. She said she heard several blasts - big booms - right before the levees broke. Several blasts and then all the water came pouring in." He went on to say that several people have told him this same thing. This is the story going round from the people who were there.<br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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our zero pres

Postby dbeach » Wed Sep 07, 2005 1:31 am

<!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.rense.com/">www.rense.com/</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br>strummin to his different drummer..<br><br>glad ya home...<br><br>sorry to see NO being used as the test city of martial law.<br>.ya know that the goal of bushco has always been martial law and him as der field marshall<br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: our zero pres

Postby AnnaLivia » Wed Sep 07, 2005 5:25 am

who is insane and who is not?<br>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br> We daily despise and deride the power-hungry, filthy rich for their utter lack of a single moral virtue, yet we as a society place no limit on wealthpower, and expect them to resist temptation.<br><br><br><br>"Oh hell, here comes our funeral. Let us pry, for our missed understandings."<br> <p></p><i></i>
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wealth and power

Postby smiths » Wed Sep 07, 2005 5:46 am

'as a society place no limit on wealthpower, and expect them to resist temptation'<br><br>seriously anna, without talking about total system overhaul, how the hell do we really limit wealth and power within the modern economic system.<br><br>communism's basic assumptions are flawed (so i hear), and capitalism rewards the ruthless<br><br>and most of the good hearted people i know seem content to tune out cos its too complicated or boring to think about.<br>i used to accept it when someone would say "oh can we not talk about politics", now i roar like a dragon, come what may <p></p><i></i>
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off-topic- my income tax plan

Postby robertdreed » Wed Sep 07, 2005 7:03 am

My Federal income tax plan tries to walk the line between oppressing the poor and middle class while the wealthy amass huge holdings, and total wealth confiscation.<br><br>It's a flat tax-<br><br>The first $50-100,000 in income free, and 50/50 thereafter. Starting at one dollar above the declared free minimum. <br><br>I've figured this plan at $75,000 annually, comparing it with the present tax tables. The upshot is that it would result in less taxes, up to about $400,000 per year income. <br><br>After that, it doesn't look like the Bush tax cuts at all, at all. <br><br>I'm also in favor of a VAT tax on consumer goods, indexed to the estimated total environmental costs of the consumer good in question, from manufacture of the raw materials to safe disposal. <br><br>On the wider question of resource distribution and land rents, I think the ideas of Henry George are well worth investigating. Private cartels have no business owning our fuel supplies, our water supplies, the human genome, or any other important resouce on this planet. <br><br>Yeah, this is an off-topic post. But there really isn't much that I can add that's on-topic. Further details are pretty much non-existent, at least at this point. <br><br> <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=robertdreed>robertdreed</A> at: 9/7/05 10:37 am<br></i>
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re: N.O. Floodwall sabotaged

Postby Starman » Wed Sep 07, 2005 6:49 pm

D-dang. I've spent about two hours fruitlessly searching google for reference to an MSNBC report I heard about 1 am a few nights ago -- It seems to have fallen off the edge of the world. It concerned a trucker who was stranded on a bridge near one of the levee floodwall breaks in the 9th Ward, and where he had been stuck since Monday morning's levee breach/flooding. <br><br>In this MSNBC report, one of those rare instances when a 'news' story appears that contradicts the prevailing paradigm on an important item and then simply vinishes when there isn't any follow-up, the reporter interviewed this trucker and several folks who were also stranded with him, who described hearing an explosion just before the waters started to flood into the 9th Ward. Apparently, their theory was that the floodwall had been breached with explosives to divert water into the lowlying Ward 9 neighborhood, to prevent the flooding of other more-expensive neighborhoods and commercial properties.<br><br>Despite my diligent searching, I couldn't find ANY reference to this story of a stranded trucker on the web, NOR on any newsgroups -- In fact, the newsgroup results were SO sparse on even the most basic, open-ended search terms I got the chilly-suspicion of a deliberate censorship of the public-forum archives.<br><br>Seems something VERY odd is going on -- esp. if indeed many Ward 9 folks have been speaking of their eyewitness suspicians -- but perhaps few people have been spreading such stories on the web, except for isolated instances as on this thread, a few comments on the RI blog, and the below links.<br><br>I'm keeping an open mind, anyway -- I sure think a deliberate floodwall breach is well within the means and opportunity and agenda of the Bush-fronted neocon-globalist thugs asociated with FEMA, Homeland Security and the US/International Shadow Government linked to the corporate/military NWO robber-baron syndicate (we just GOTTA find a better 'name' for these gangster-thug criminals!).<br><br>Heard this morning -- FEMA and Mayor Nagin have ordered a mandatory evacuation-by-force of all New Orleans holdouts (excluding Algiers neighborhood, I take it). Man, what a massive FUBAR unfolding tragedy, forcing people out of their homes to an uncertain limbo --where WILL they supposed to go?<br><br>I still insist -- The city/state's failure to have a practical, well-thought-out plan, fully equipped and funded, to have several heavy-lift helicopters on-call in the event of a major emergency to use extraordinary measures to repair any catastrophic floodwall break -- For want of a couple-million-dollar preparation plan, now the rescue and repair/rebuilding operations may cost uncountable tens of billions of dollars,with extreme loss of life and immeasurable suffering and property-loss. While the levees were flooding, it didn't seem ANYTHING was being done to effect emergency repairs at all. This is BEYOND criminal negligence and misfeasance.<br><br>Starman<br>***<br><br>from: <!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://voidzero.net/">voidzero.net/</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br>Cloak and Dagger <<!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.cloakanddagger.de>">www.cloakanddagger.de></a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--> wrote:<br><br>SECOND BATTLE OF NEW ORLEANS<br>The Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) sabotaged the levee. So say more than 25 eyewitnesses, primarily but not exclusively blacks. Some weather-warfare experts contend Hurricane Katrina was man-made, created and directed by the latest technology and high-level treachery.<br><br>On the ground and in helicopters, FEMA operatives have vowed to identify and snuff out the finger-pointers. But, like the War of 1812, amid British-instigated violence, a French and American alliance is protecting brave Americans.<br><br>Now, I posted this before but decided to take it off again just a few minutes later, because it’s not really saying much is it. However, another source now reports a similar story, so I decided to put them both on and let the reader decide once again.<br><br>“..National Guard not allowing aid into the city<br>Also heard that part of the reason our house flooded is they dynamited part of the levee after the first section broke - they did this to prevent Uptown (the rich part of town) from being flooded. Apparently they used too much dynamite, thus flooding part of the Bywater. So now I know who is responsible for flooding my house - not Katrina, but our government.”<br><br>Was found with google search here <<!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://64.233.187.104/search?q=cache:Sfke5rjI6goJ:100777.com/aggregator+17th+Street+levee+dynamite&hl=en>,">64.233.187.104/search?q=c...te&hl=en>,</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--> scroll down to 05:11. <br><br>This article refers to a story on whatreallyhappened.com <<!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/archives/cat_current_events.html>.">www.whatreallyhappened.co...nts.html>.</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--> This in turn references to NewOrleans.indymedia.org <<!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://neworleans.indymedia.org/news/2005/09/3941.php>.">neworleans.indymedia.org/...3941.php>.</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br> <p></p><i></i>
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possible explosions

Postby winsomecowboy » Wed Sep 07, 2005 7:28 pm

from boing boing<br>... 10:31 Just met members of the Polish press, they are being stopped from entering floor. Says this is like the former USSR.<br><br>10:57 Raw transcript of comments by NOLA evacuee Clara Barthelemy: "The 17th street levee was bombed by the Army Corps of Engineers to save the more valuable real estate in the city… to keep the French Quarter protected, the ninth ward was sacrificed… people are afraid to speak out… everyone who was near there heard the bombings… they bombed seven times. That's why they didn't fix the levees… 20 feet of water. Gators. People dying in water. They let the parishes go, not the city center. Tourist trap was saved over human life. A six year old girl was raped in here.. 9 year old boy killed. A man in the shower beaten. No hot food. No help for elderly."<br><br>Another evacuee: "Over 20 rapes per night happening inside this place. They bring in national guard for media purposes. Bush wants us to stay here to raise his ratings. Some workers are stealing the good stuff, like shoes."<br><br>11:16: Rough transcript of comments by NOLA evacuee, male: "We are treated like prisoners here. Placed under mandatory curfew. We are citizens!"<br><br>11:22 Now I'm speaking to someone else, another woman, who says some people report having witnessed "bomb sounds," believe 17th street levee and others were blown up to manage water flow and protect more valuable portions of real estate.<br><br>Evacuee Dianne Stafford: "They blew the levee to save the city…" Saying a barge broke the levee. She is from St. Bernard Parish. "More expensive places were saved at the expense of the neighborhoods that aren't as valuable… Rebuilding Bourbon Street matters more to the government… that's what mattered to Governor Blanco…"<br><br>11:36 I'm speaking to a man who's been wearing the exact same pair of 2XL stretch pants since the storm hit. Some clothing is available for evacuees, but he is a large man and can't find anything available to fit his body. He's a diabetic but has good medical care. This so depressing. Its so hard to not cry when you hear this shit. The very large and very old have little help.<br><br>11:59 CNN have no problem getting in. Nobody's stopping them from accessing the floor, but other credentialed press who already have press badges are being stopped.<br><br>12:09 Evacuees I'm talking to are all telling me about rapes, murders, beatings which are taking place inside the Astrodome.<br><br>12:24 Man I'm speaking to, Danny Smith, says he cannot get housing because he has a felony. Aid workers found him a house but he is a felon, so they turned him away. FEMA has agreed to pay for his apartment, but he cannot get one. "Everyone has a felony here," he says. He thinks that people are going to riot<br><br>12:29 Evacuee Irvin Skinner: We have a curfew. We're being kept inside after 11pm. Forced to stay inside. They threw guns on everyone. Said 'come inside or your out of here'. Shoved guns, pointed them at adults. I'm a grown man, I have rights. This is an instituion to us, it's like a jail. I'm a middle class man with a home being trated like a criminal because I'm black. If we were white, we wouldn't have this problem."<br><br>"We are not here by choice."<br><br>13:03 Harris County will not allow any radio station inside without a FEMA form even if operator has FCC permission. Austin Airwaves says trying to get form now, been waiting 2.5 days. No radio station inside the dome until that form is filled out.... <p></p><i></i>
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Levee breaches

Postby total411info » Wed Sep 07, 2005 9:17 pm

Wow, this is good stuff. Could everyone involved please send me more information, links, etc.? I wouild particularly like to speak or otherwise communicate with the earwitnesses. <br><br>The only thing I would add to these quotes is this... most of them say that they blew the levees to "save" the more expensive parts of the city. It's important to note that *NONE* of those "expensive" areas would have flooded if the levees weren't blasted. The network that blew the levees wasn't making a tradeoff of one area of town for another -- they were just flooding almost the entire city maliciously.<br><br>Many expensive homes in the Lakeview area were totally destroyed, and many other nicer neighborhoods were flooded, though not demolished, as well.<br><br>my email is totalinfo --AT-- gmail.com<!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :rolleyes --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/eyes.gif ALT=":rolleyes"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <p></p><i></i>
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ps

Postby total411info » Wed Sep 07, 2005 9:18 pm

PS -- you can check out my coverage of katrina, etc at www.total411.info <p></p><i></i>
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reply to smiths: how do we limit wealth and power?

Postby dis » Wed Sep 07, 2005 9:57 pm

<!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>[btw, how do you put quotes up without having to type it all in? the box comes up when i click quote, but it wont let me drag the passage into the box]<br><br><!--EZCODE FONT START--><span style="color:blue;font-family:verdana;font-size:small;">quote: how do we limit wealth and power within the modern economic system?<br><br>first, you learn it, you study it, you decide whether you agree it is necessary and good and possible [i can prove in a minute that everyone already agrees]<br><br>second, teach people to want it with great understanding and determination: just wordofmouth, teaching it to just one person a month, can reach every adult in the world in 33 months, therefore there is no problem spreading the word if people are prepared to be serious about it [bigbusiness is more powerful than the the govt, so no use going to the govt leaders, they are in the pocket; historically, the people, when aroused, are the only thing that can bring down the corrupt and indecent plutocracies]<br><br>third, when there is a universal clear idea and will to do it, pass laws preventing accumulation of fortunes from generation to generation - you can even allow unlimited fortunes in a person's lifetime, but you effectively prevent endless accumulation over generations, by taking all but say $10 million of the fortune on decease, and spreading it as directly as possible [electronically, straight into bank accounts, with safeguards so no one can get hands on it] to the most severely underpaid, thus limiting overpower/tyranny and simultaneously compensating people for underpay, and thus preventing the crime and poverty shameful to a great state [not as charity, but as justice - the poor have usually worked as hard or harder, in more unpleasant jobs, than most]<br><br>such a law would not reduce incomes of 99.9999% of the population [instead, the watering of the economy from the roots will ceaselessly freshen all economic levels as the money rises thru the modern economic system, in which money ceaselessly drifts from underpaid to overpaid], it would prevent tyranny, it would prevent severe poverty [social stresses and costs are proportional to the range of wealth and poverty] - 99.9999% of the population would have nothing against the idea, and the 99.9999% could probably push the 0.0001% around to their will - the law would be just, because no one can really earn $500,000 per hour [gates's average hourly pay over his working lifetime] and the law would only prevent the highest hrly payrate going endlessly higher than gates's [to really earn $500,000 an hour, gates would have to produce $500,000 of goods and services by his work every hour - eg build from nothing except nature a $500,000 house every hour, or produce 500,000 cans of beans per hour]<br><br>hey, it was the american dream - jefferson, from the perspective of distance fom european tyranny they fled from, could clearly see that superwealth=tyranny, so the first thing they did after signing the declaration was to take steps to try to prevent overpay/tyranny [prohibit entail and primogeniture and fix clergy salaries] - defeated by the rise of the corporation, which never dies, in which money can accumulate multigenerationally - price of liberty is eternal vigilance - to prevent superoverpay, superoverpower</span><!--EZCODE FONT END--></strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--></em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> <p></p><i></i>
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Re Just type what you want quoted, highlight it

Postby seemslikeadream » Wed Sep 07, 2005 10:02 pm

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>and then hit the quote word on the left<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--> <p></p><i></i>
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Re:Wayne Madsen: Barge hit levee according to evacuees?

Postby seemslikeadream » Wed Sep 07, 2005 10:41 pm

<!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.waynemadsenreport.com" target="top">www.waynemadsenreport.com /</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--><br><br>September 7, 2005 -- Locals from Lakeview subdivision of New Orleans report that after Katrina passed a loose barge struck levee causing breach that flooded city. <br><br>WMR has just been informed by evacuees in Baton Rouge from Lakeview, a well-to-do New Orleans neighborhood, that the flooding of the city was caused by a loose barge striking the levee on the 17th Street Canal. The breach was not caused by rising flood waters as reported by FEMA and other agencies. Lakeview is some 1.5 miles down Veterans Boulevard from the 17th St. Canal breach.<br><br>Distraught evacuees want to know why the Coast Guard or the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers did not secure the barge. The evacuees who witnessed the barge striking the levee also want to know why the major media is not covering this story. It is not known what company owns the barge but if it is a major campaign contributor to the GOP, the answer is self-evident.<br> <p></p><i></i>
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re: Barge struck 17th st. Levee?

Postby Starman » Wed Sep 07, 2005 11:01 pm

So THAT'S what that long rust-brown object is as repeatedly seen in the aerial news-video footage about 100-200 feet to the west of and parallel to the breached floodwall, just inside the Ward 9 flooded neighborhood! It looks like it's sunk in 10-20 feet of water with just one gunwhale above the water level sticking up maybe 5 to 10 feet, it almost looks like an unusually-long, narrow semi-submerged shed. How odd (but then, not really) that NO news service even mentioned it or referred to it all -- Imagine the liability issue!<br><br>But that also goes to the point I've made over and over, wondering why extra-ordinary measures weren't tried to plug the breaches (there were several I giuess), as with heavy-lift construction helicopters dropping large objects like railcars into the broken floodwall -- or jamming barges into the breach, or demolition of nearest bridges as filling-material -- also freeing-up the canal for navigating barges into position. The utter lack of emergency operations is inexplicable, except by design.<br><br>Starman <p></p><i></i>
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Inside the Houston Astrodome

Postby Nonny » Wed Sep 07, 2005 11:06 pm

<!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.boingboing.net/2005/09/07/katrina_rape_murder_.html" target="top">www.boingboing.net/2005/09/07/katrina_rape_murder_.html</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--><br><br>10:23: Joel just got removed. Almost arrested. Fox News is down on the floor. I'm in dome, hiding in seats. They're allowing some media on the floor, not others. <br><br>10:31 Just met members of the Polish press, they are being stopped from entering floor. Says this is like the former USSR. <br><br>10:57 Raw transcript of comments by NOLA evacuee Clara Barthelemy: "The 17th street levee was bombed by the Army Corps of Engineers to save the more valuable real estate in the city… to keep the French Quarter protected, the ninth ward was sacrificed… people are afraid to speak out… everyone who was near there heard the bombings… they bombed seven times. That's why they didn't fix the levees… 20 feet of water. Gators. People dying in water. They let the parishes go, not the city center. Tourist trap was saved over human life. A six year old girl was raped in here.. 9 year old boy killed. A man in the shower beaten. No hot food. No help for elderly." <br><br>Another evacuee: "Over 20 rapes per night happening inside this place. They bring in national guard for media purposes. Bush wants us to stay here to raise his ratings. Some workers are stealing the good stuff, like shoes." <br><br>11:16: Rough transcript of comments by NOLA evacuee, male: "We are treated like prisoners here. Placed under mandatory curfew. We are citizens!" <br><br>11:22 Now I'm speaking to someone else, another woman, who says some people report having witnessed "bomb sounds," believe 17th street levee and others were blown up to manage water flow and protect more valuable portions of real estate. <br><br>Evacuee Dianne Stafford: "They blew the levee to save the city…" Saying a barge broke the levee. She is from St. Bernard Parish. "More expensive places were saved at the expense of the neighborhoods that aren't as valuable… Rebuilding Bourbon Street matters more to the government… that's what mattered to Governor Blanco…" <br><br>11:36 I'm speaking to a man who's been wearing the exact same pair of 2XL stretch pants since the storm hit. Some clothing is available for evacuees, but he is a large man and can't find anything available to fit his body. He's a diabetic but has good medical care. This so depressing. Its so hard to not cry when you hear this shit. The very large and very old have little help. <br><br>11:59 CNN have no problem getting in. Nobody's stopping them from accessing the floor, but other credentialed press who already have press badges are being stopped. <br><br>12:09 Evacuees I'm talking to are all telling me about rapes, murders, beatings which are taking place inside the Astrodome. <br><br>12:24 Man I'm speaking to, Danny Smith, says he cannot get housing because he has a felony. Aid workers found him a house but he is a felon, so they turned him away. FEMA has agreed to pay for his apartment, but he cannot get one. "Everyone has a felony here," he says. He thinks that people are going to riot <br><br>12:29 Evacuee Irvin Skinner: We have a curfew. We're being kept inside after 11pm. Forced to stay inside. They threw guns on everyone. Said 'come inside or your out of here'. Shoved guns, pointed them at adults. I'm a grown man, I have rights. This is an instituion to us, it's like a jail. I'm a middle class man with a home being trated like a criminal because I'm black. If we were white, we wouldn't have this problem." <br><br>"We are not here by choice." <br><br>13:03 Harris County will not allow any radio station inside without a FEMA form even if operator has FCC permission. Austin Airwaves says trying to get form now, been waiting 2.5 days. No radio station inside the dome until that form is filled out. <br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re:Picture of the barge Can someone save it?

Postby seemslikeadream » Wed Sep 07, 2005 11:15 pm

<!--EZCODE IMAGE START--><img src="http://dfwforums.net/images/barge.jpg" style="border:0;"/><!--EZCODE IMAGE END--><br><br><br><!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.dfwforums.net/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=124&mode=&order=0&thold=0" target="top">www.dfwforums.net/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=124&mode=&order=0&thold=0</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--><br><br><br><br>http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=4688677&mesg_id=4688677 <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=seemslikeadream@rigorousintuition>seemslikeadream</A> at: 9/7/05 9:31 pm<br></i>
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