by Nonny » Thu Oct 20, 2005 9:38 pm
Oct. 14, 2005<br><br>GRACE: Well, joining us tonight, the defense attorney on the case, you`ve met him many times before on our program, Daniel Horowitz. Now, listen, you may disagree with him, but at least he`s not just another talking head. He`s in that courtroom, fighting for his client, who, by the way, miraculously, Daniel, escaped unscathed, not a single scratch. But her husband had, what, 26, 27 slice wounds?<br><br>DANIEL HOROWITZ, SUSAN POLK`S DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, Nancy, I`m holding up 27 fingers, if you think there were 27 stab wounds. Their own medical examiner said there were one, two, three, four, five significant stab wounds. Everything else...<br><br>GRACE: You said significant, but what about the other wounds?<br><br>HOROWITZ: Well, they`re scratches. They`re nicks. They`re really nothing...<br><br>GRACE: From the knife?<br><br>HOROWITZ: ... that you wouldn`t even -- from the knife. But you -- if you ran through a thicket of thistles, you would get those kinds of scratches.<br><br>GRACE: OK! I notice that your client doesn`t have any thistle scratches at all. Daniel, I`ve got to go...<br><br>HOROWITZ: Well, actually, she does, Nancy.<br><br>GRACE: I got to go to a quick break.<br><br>(CROSSTALK)<br><br>GRACE: But Daniel Horowitz will be with us when we get back.<br><br>Tonight, I want to tell you all about a very important new resource for crime victims, Victim Power. It provides a new technology on line allowing anyone, victims, witnesses, to report crimes and remain 100 percent anonymous. Police, prosecutors can receive reports, even enter into dialogue with victims and witnesses while they are anonymous. You can access this important site on line, Victimpower.org.<br><br>(COMMERCIAL BREAK)<br><br>GRACE: She claims she drove all the way from Montana to California to, quote, "settle the divorce." I don`t know. I thought lawyers could do that.<br><br>Quickly, out to investigative reporter Jane Velez-Mitchell. Before we go back to defense lawyer Dan Horowitz, Jane, explain to me the wounds on the body. I understand that he sustained 27 stab wounds, 22 lacerations, and she had none.<br><br>VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, basically, what the coroner`s report said is that there were five major stab wounds to the man`s body, in the chest and the abdomen. The rest of those wounds are defensive wounds on his hands and feet, as if he were fighting off an attacker. And by the way, a very significant piece of evidence -- her hair is found gripped, strands of her hair found gripped in his hand, his clenched fist.<br><br>GRACE: In one hand or both hands?<br><br>VELEZ-MITCHELL: I don`t think it`s both hands, but I think it might have been one hand.<br><br>GRACE: Because, interesting, if it were both hands, that would show he was totally unarmed throughout. And also, defensive wounds can occur when someone has fallen down and they`re horizontal and they`re balling up.<br><br>VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, especially with the feet.<br><br>GRACE: That`s my experience...<br><br>VELEZ-MITCHELL: He`s kicking up with his feet.<br><br>GRACE: That`s my experience with defensive wounds on victims` bodies, on the knee, leg and feet.<br><br>Quick break, everybody, but we`ll all be right back. As you know, we want very much to help solve unsolved homicides, help find missing people. Tonight, look at 11-year-old Joshua Weintraub, last seen, Midland, Virginia, August 29. His birthday is Sunday. Please, help us bring Joshua home in time to celebrate. If you have info on Joshua Weintraub, call Fairfax County police, 703-691-2131, or go to Beyondmissing.com. Please help us.<br><br>(COMMERCIAL BREAK)<br><br>THOMAS ROBERTS, CNN HEADLINE NEWS ANCHOR: Hi, everybody. I`m Thomas Roberts, and this is your "Headline Prime Newsbreak."<br><br>Much of Baghdad is in the dark, after insurgents sabotaged power lines, knocking out electricity to about 70 percent of the city. Water was also out in certain areas because the pumps just wouldn`t work. The blackout comes on the eve of a national constitutional referendum. <br><br>The search for survivors from last weekend`s massive earthquake in Asia has come to an end. Authorities estimate more than 23,000 people were killed in Pakistan, with 1,300 more deaths reported in India. The Pakistani president says nearly 2.5 million people are feared homeless. Today, President Bush visited the Pakistani embassy to sign a condolence book and offer assistance. <br><br>Acting New Jersey Governor Richard Codey has declared a state of emergency in response to rising floodwaters. Coty says more than 500 residents have evacuated. Today is the eighth straight day of rain in parts of the northeast, and forecasters are predicting another two to three inches of rain by tomorrow alone. <br><br>That is the news for now. Thanks for joining us. I`m Thomas Roberts. And we take you back for more of NANCY GRACE. <br><br>(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) <br><br>JIM MORET, CORRESPONDENT, "INSIDE EDITION": Do you believe your mom is innocent? <br><br>ELI POLK, SON OF ACCUSED MOTHER: Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. <br><br>MORET: How do you feel knowing that one of your children, Eli, is going to be taking the stand in your defense and Gabriel is going to be taking the stand for the prosecution? <br><br>SUSAN POLK, ACCUSED OF MURDERING HUSBAND: It`s a devastating experience to have a child make accusations, you know, against a parent. <br><br>(END VIDEO CLIP)<br><br>GRACE: Today in a California courtroom, battle rages on. She says self-defense. The prosecution says murder. <br><br>Now, back to the defense attorney in this case, Daniel Horowitz. Daniel, explain to me again how it is that he has all of these lacerations. According to the autopsy report, 26 to 27 lacerations, including five stab wounds to the chest and abdomen, and she has none. <br><br>HOROWITZ: Well, Nancy, actually, I`m very proud of our Contra Costa County sheriff`s department, because, even though they were looking at this as if she were the perpetrator, they did note -- and they will testify -- that she had cuts on both of her hands, on her upper arms, that she had a black eye, and actually they then took a photo of two black eyes. So she did suffer injuries, Nancy. <br><br>GRACE: Where on her hands were the cuts exactly? <br><br>HOROWITZ: OK, the cuts on her hands look like a bite mark. There`s actually one inside -- it looks like he was trying to bite her hand to get the knife out. This cut`s on top of her left hand and on her upper arms, Nancy. <br><br>GRACE: OK. Let me just think about that for one moment. You`re telling me she`s got a bite mark and she`s got a cut on the outside of her hand? <br><br>HOROWITZ: Yes, on the top of her left hand. <br><br>GRACE: Top of the left hand. Well, I don`t know about you, Daniel, but that clearly shows to me that that was while she was holding the knife. <br><br>HOROWITZ: Probably, Nancy. She won this battle, where nobody should have died. And it`s unfortunate that he died. But, you know, Nancy...<br><br>GRACE: Well, he never had the knife in his hand. <br><br>HOROWITZ: Well, that`s one point of view. And Jane set forth the prosecution case to date as they`re doing. But I disagree. <br><br>I believe that the physical evidence will show that she was on her back with the knife and he was on top of her. And I think that will be shown by the blood evidence and by the angle of the knife wounds on his body. <br><br>But that`s a battle to be fought in the courtroom. But keep an open mind, because we have very good experts on both sides. <br><br>GRACE: Yes, I know the battle is in the courtroom. That`s when you are starting to filibuster, Daniel Horowitz. I know you. <br><br>Now, listen. You say she`s on the bottom with a knife. Can you put the knife in his hand at any time? <br><br>HOROWITZ: Well, Nancy, except by her testimony, there`s no physical evidence that puts the knife in her hand, which is a difficult thing for us. But the angles of the knife wounds to him, they`re not dead center, as if a man was being stabbed repeatedly. They`re scattered around his body. <br><br>(LAUGHTER)<br><br>GRACE: Oh, Daniel, Daniel, I respect you deeply. I give you a lot of credit for this argument. It`s creative. It`s totally -- Renee, what would you do with this? <br><br>ROCKWELL: What I`d do with it is rewind the hands of time and make sure she doesn`t say anything. What has she done? She`s committed herself to a self-defense theory. But then again, if she says that he attacked her, and she`s defending herself, why didn`t she call 911? She did nothing. She waits 24 hours, and the son discovers him. <br><br>GRACE: And then, to Caryn Stark, psychotherapist, Caryn, almost immediately after she learns that her payments are going to be slashed by over 50 percent, and that her husband, the psychologist, gets custody of the remaining teenage boy, she gets in a vehicle and drives, drives herself from Montana to California. <br><br>Now, Caryn, how much stewing do you think she did on the road from Montana to California? <br><br>CARYN STARK, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: I think she did a lot of stewing, Nancy. And if you think about the fact that a lot of people are saying because she was so young when she met him -- she was 14 -- which is totally illegal what he did, the involvement that they had, nonetheless...<br><br>GRACE: Well, fine, he can go to jail for statutory rape, but, uh-oh, he`s dead. <br><br>STARK: And that`s my exact -- he may be culpable of that. But this woman was able to even say that she wanted to have a divorce. She did the drive. It clearly -- Daniel makes me laugh, because he said, "Well, it`s only five major stab wounds." <br><br>GRACE: It`s only five stab wounds to the chest. Good point.<br><br>STARK: And she was capable of doing that, too.<br><br>GRACE: So, Daniel, what was she doing on the way from Montana to California, just sharpening the knife? <br><br>HOROWITZ: Well, no, Nancy. Actually, she was calling her children. And after she arrived, there was a long period of time where she just lived at the house. She took her sons to -- her son, Gabriel, to school. She had a normal life. <br><br>(CROSSTALK) <br><br>GRACE: Other than those three 911 calls her husband made. <br><br>HOROWITZ: Well, I heard those calls today. And there`ll be a lot more evidence about them. They really were mostly him grousing about the divorce and saying, "Hey, 911, why don`t you help me get my wife out of the house?" There wasn`t anything very spectacular about them. <br><br>The bottom line, Nancy, is that this man was very rageful. She had no financial motive -- I know it seems on the surface she did -- to kill him. But it cost her a lot of money when he died. She lost spousal support that in California is a mathematical calculation based upon his earnings. <br><br>GRACE: Who was his beneficiary? <br><br>HOROWITZ: There was no beneficiary. There is no life insurance policy. That`s another good point.<br><br>GRACE: Well, I`m looking at his multimillion-dollar mansion right now. So who gets that? <br><br>HOROWITZ: Another point, Nancy. Let me interrupt. He argued that the house was worth less when it was going to be sold in the divorce than when they bought it. That`s what the realtor said. So there would be no value in that house, just a big mortgage to pay. <br><br>GRACE: Oh, Daniel, Daniel, just answer in a -- simply, who`s the beneficiary? <br><br>HOROWITZ: The beneficiary of what, though? I mean, you can benefit from debts. <br><br>GRACE: OK, you know what? Never mind. <br><br>Joe Lawless, when there`s not a will, who`s the beneficiary? <br><br>LAWLESS: Usually the spouse. <br><br>GRACE: OK. Thank you. <br><br>Back to Jane Velez-Mitchell, investigative reporter. Jane, also I want to talk about what happened immediately after the stabbing. What was her response? <br><br>VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, she claims now that she`s in shock, but essentially she did nothing. Now she admits she did have an altercation with the husband. And she left the body there for 24 hours until her 15- year-old son discovered the body. He was the one who called 911. <br><br>And then, when she was arrested and sitting in the squad car, she says something to the effect of, "Oh, well. We were going to get a divorce anyway." That is a quote from the officer who was at the scene. <br><br>GRACE: Daniel, take your best shot at that one. <br><br>HOROWITZ: First of all, Nancy, I don`t believe that that is what she said to that officer. I like most of the officers...<br><br>GRACE: You know, I hate it when cops make up lies. I hate that.<br><br>HOROWITZ: Well, Nancy, there was another officer just 10 feet away who didn`t hear anything said. To me, that`s usually a sign that he doesn`t want to back the other officer`s version of events. I like most of the officers here, but I don`t believe that. <br><br>GRACE: OK, let`s just pretend -- Daniel, I`m going to go with you on this one. I`m going to go with you. <br><br>But tell me this: If she was in shock, where did she get the wherewithal to take his car and go park it at the, I guess, the bus or train station. And then when her son kept asking -- they`re supposed to go to a ball game that night -- "Where`s Dad? Where`s Dad?" She`s like, "I don`t know." <br><br>HOROWITZ: Well, Nancy, that`s something I had to learn -- and in some ways, you know this better than me. <br><br>GRACE: Oh, don`t put it on me. Don`t put this on me, Daniel Horowitz. <br><br>HOROWITZ: There is something called -- well, Nancy, you have represented as a prosecutor women who have been battered. And you understand, I think -- and certain characteristics of battered women make them hide abuse and hide acts like this. They just don`t deal with it. <br><br>GRACE: You mean hide...<br><br>HOROWITZ: And I`m learning about it from experts. <br><br>GRACE: Well, why did she move his car, if she was in such shock? <br><br>HOROWITZ: Well, my understanding is -- and it doesn`t -- it`s not logically perfect -- but she did not want her son to know that his dad was home, because then he would have gone to the pool house looking for him. <br><br>GRACE: Well, Daniel, home? <br><br>HOROWITZ: I know that it`s not a perfect...<br><br>GRACE: Daniel, he wasn`t at home. He was dead, stabbed to death in the foyer. <br><br>HOROWITZ: Well, I understand that, Nancy. I understand that. <br><br>GRACE: It`s not the same as being home.<br><br>HOROWITZ: I understand that. From my point of view -- and from what I understand from the experts -- is that, if she had just gone to the police and said, "It was self-defense, and here`s what happened, blah, blah, blah," and in great detail, that would be a sign that she planned it and that she was not a battered woman. <br><br>It is the psychology of a battered woman that makes them go into shock. Now, that`s not my expertise. <br><br>GRACE: OK, let`s take a look at...<br><br>HOROWITZ: That`s why I consult people. <br><br>GRACE: ... Daniel`s client, Susan Polk. <br><br>(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)<br><br>POLK: I hope that people will not be prejudiced by the charge that`s been brought against me and that they will listen with an open mind to what I have to say. <br><br>What happened is my husband attacked me, and grabbed me by the hair, threw me on the floor, and began to stab at me with the knife. <br><br>(END VIDEO CLIP) <br><br>GRACE: He must have had horrible aim, because all he managed to do was to bite her on the hand. <br><br>Very quickly, Daniel Horowitz, not only did your woman take his car to the train station and park it, leave it there, she also suddenly got the clean bug and washed all of her clothes, yes, no? <br><br>HOROWITZ: Yes, but she really did not cover up any evidence that she was there. His hair -- I mean, his hand had her hair right in his hand. She`s a very, very intelligent woman, Nancy. <br><br>GRACE: You need to quit saying that. That`s not helping you. <br><br>HOROWITZ: Well, it`s just a fact. If she wanted to make believe she was not involved in this altercation, she would have taken her hair out of his hand. <br><br>It really was not a clean bug, Nancy, in the sense that she was covering up a crime. It was a clean bug in the sense that she was sort in another state of mind, which the psychologist will say is normal for a woman in her battering situation. <br><br>GRACE: After a murder, OK?<br><br>Daniel Horowitz, you and I on two different sides of the fence on this one. But you know what? We`ll see it play out in a courtroom. Daniel Horowitz, straight from the courtroom. Thank you for being with us. <br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0510/14/ng.01.html">transcripts.cnn.com/TRANS...ng.01.html</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--> <p></p><i></i>