Occult Believers More Susceptible to Fear-Control?

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Occult Believers More Susceptible to Fear-Control?

Postby proldic » Fri Aug 26, 2005 9:54 am

Early a.m. ponderings...<br><br>I wanted to re-post this document in the hopes of sparking a discussion.<br><br>How "healthy" is RI? <br> <br>This comes out of a growing sense I've been getting about the board. It was the recent posts about "Experiences of the Weird", screams, and helicopters, etc. that led me to pondering how this stuff effects people's ability to "function", whatever that means.<br><br>First, I know that my idea of "functioning" is different from many others on this board. It basically boils down to - how much of a person's --soul-- is devoted to being a "political animal", how far dis-engaged is the particular person from the "political process", and how much of a connection in terms of their appearance, words, deeds, does that person have with any popular mass-movement of "working people"? Just my opinion. It doesn't mean that this info couldn't change non-"political" people negatively, too. <br><br>How does this relate to this sort of <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>nervous energy</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> that is palpable here, something that more than one outside observer has mentioned to me as noticable? Little comments sprinkled about weird experiences on the board, particular discussions being blanked out, screen savers being hijacked by Jeff's collage, etc. It's almost as if people seem titillated by it.<br><br>Some people it might make more mad - less self-oriented, and more determined. But most people would be cowed by it. Maybe this has something to do with the question that is asked by "skeptics" about "why doesn't this stuff happen to me?" Maybe it's only happening to those that will be affected by it in a way that dis-empowers them? <br><br>Has anyone ever become MORE pragmatic and socio-politically "down-to-earth" after these experiences?<br><br>How much is this board --empowering-- the "fear-control" mechanism? How much should we care? <br><br>Caveat: I do know that what is discussed on this board has the --potential-- to serve as an important part of understanding "parapolitics". I also have seen with my own eyes, many many times, how this same information, presented in a particular way, can serve to disengage people from "life".<br><br>Anyone else (besides seventhsonjr) see the almighty friggin' relevance of this FBI cointelpro?<br><br>Anyone have input on this issue? <br><br> <br>1968 FBI Occult Harassment Plan<br> <br>FBI memorandum 5/10/68<br><br>" The emergence of the new left on the American scene has produced a new phenomenon -- a yen for magic. Some leaders [and] followers wear beads and amulets. New left youth involved in anti-Vietnam activity have adopted the Greek letter 'Omega' as their symbol...<br>...Yogis have established a following...Their incantantions are a reminder of the chant of the witch doctor. Publicity has been given to the Yogis...The news media has referred to it as a 'mystical renaissance'...<br><br>...the above-described conditions offer an opportunity for use in the counterintelligence field. Specifically, it is suggested that a few top-echelon leaders of the New Left movement be subjected to harassment by a series of anonymous messages with a mystical connotation.<br><br>The enclosed sketches are a sample of such a message. This could be followed by a series of messages with the same sketch bearing (ambiguously-worded) captions such as...The recipient is left to make his own interpretation as to the significance of the symbol and the message and as to the identity of the sender.<br><br>The symbol utilized does not have to have any real significance, but must be subject to interpretation as having a mystical, sinister meaning...The mathematical symbol for 'infinity' would certainly qualify as having a mystical, sinister meaning...<br><br>...the periodic receipt of anonymous messages, as described above, could cause concern and mental anguish...<br><br>Suspicion, distrust, and disruption could follow.<br><br>The proposed action, suggested above, is basically a harassment technique. Its ultimate aim is to cause disruption of the New Left <br><br>by attacking an apparent weakness of some of its leaders. <br><br>It is felt there is a reasonable chance for success..."<br><br><br>Hoover Approves 11/21/68<br><br>" The observations of your office with regard to the captioned program are appreciated and it is felt that with the proper selectivity of subjects the approach suggested [in previous memo] could be fruitful.<br><br>In choosing a subject for such an approach, a thorough knowledge of the background...is necessary...<br><br>Through [the use of close-contact informants]...we might be able to enhance the effect of the mailings by planning 'appropriate' interpretations of the symbols.<br><br>The significance of the symbols should be slanted so as to be interpreted as relating to something that is currently going on...<br><br>Prior to instituting [the program]...submit your reccomendations as to the appropriate subject...along with the symbolisms to be used and the desired interpretations to be expected.<br><br>Take no steps to carry out this phase...without prior Bureau approval. " <br><br><br><br><br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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Interesting

Postby Connut » Fri Aug 26, 2005 10:05 am

that you should bring this up, Proldic. I went to see the movie Skeleton Key (not an especially good movie), and the premise of the movie seems to be exactly what you are suggesting - that until we believe it, magic can have no effect on us, and it also proposes that it is harder and harder these days to make us afraid enough to believe in magic. Psyops works by making us believe what is not true and that does have an effect on us until we wake up. What I think is happening here at RigInt is that we are fed up with being afraid, have found some truths for ourselvesand are now searching for more truths. Perhaps we are ready to face the furies with some fury ourselves. Best I can do for now, Connut. <p></p><i></i>
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Occult Believers More Susceptible to Fear-Control?

Postby rapt » Fri Aug 26, 2005 1:27 pm

That is an insightful set of questions proldic. Seems like you always raise difficult problems.<br><br>How about a little background: all of us are here to grind away some of the brainwashing we have experienced since birth. Is that a too-harsh indictment? Am I making an undocumentable assertion, since I can have no idea what any of you have done since birth? Oh well you get the point, and I don't think brainwashing is too strong a term. Who here has never put his hand over his heart and pledged allegiance to the flag? Call it socialization if you must.<br><br>We are fighting something nasty which has recently blown its cover for all to see. It isn't necessary or even desireable to run right out onto the front lines to physically confront this force, since it has hardly yet been defined. But we all know it is there and it is deadly dangerous. So we talk about it. And yes some of us are afraid of it. I don't think that means that a fear-inducing psyop is at work, although fear and incomplete knowlege of the true nature of this beast may create the feeling that one is being manipulated.<br><br>I read the main thrust of your question as, "are we being successfully controlled by means outlined in that old FBI memo?" Some of us are, to some extent, as stated recently by Fintan Dunne in Wagnews. (By the way, Fintan has spent the last couple of days in defensive mode, rationalising his position on "CIAFakes" by digging through and finding weaknesses in some of the sites on his blacklist.) Note that the govt has put the squash on all UFO info since at least 1947 even though a lot of it is well documented. To me this confirms that it is there, it is being kept secret, and that its exposure would threaten the established power structure.<br><br>In light of the above, it is a mistake to try and proceed on the rational old-fashioned model, that is "vote em out of office" or "my govt works better than your govt."<br>The occult, or the otherworldly comes closer to the truth than you may be comfortable with; it is a necessary part of the discussion. That is why I have a sudden crush on RI. Sure a lot of this stuff resembles fairy tales and leads down misty paths, but you just never know when some starry-eyed theory will hit pay dirt.<br><br>The danger of being sucked in and diverted by a planted story is always there, but it is certainly no worse than a Diebold machine. <p></p><i></i>
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their cluelessness

Postby Avalon » Fri Aug 26, 2005 1:32 pm

"New left youth involved in anti-Vietnam activity have adopted the Greek letter 'Omega' as their symbol...<br>...Yogis have established a following...Their incantantions are a reminder of the chant of the witch doctor"<br><br>When they say stuff like this, it's clear that they haven't got the foggiest idea of what they are talking about.<br><br>That said, the pyramid logo made for DARPA a few years ago might have utilized that idea. But these days the response to that sort of thing is generally one of both outrage and derision, and usually responded with cries that TPTB know what they are doing with such a logo, and are flipping the bird at those who are keeping an eye on them.<br><br>Can you think of any others that they might have tried? <p></p><i></i>
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the operative word here is "fear" -- does RI sprea

Postby nashvillebrook » Fri Aug 26, 2005 2:20 pm

i dunno. you skeered?<br><br>i like RI b/c there's a premise of thinking for yourself here along with a group of people who seem to think for themselves. <br><br>having said that, i wandered into the data dump last nite and read about The Finders which really spooked me. i don't like being spooked, but i really don't like being told what to think. so i wandered, read, and fell asleep. i probably dreampt about kids on milk cartons, but i don't remember. <br><br>will that affect my behavior today? will it change the fact that i have a house to clean, bills to pay and a life i live offline. nope. it's just stuff i read. <br><br>with regard to real political process, two words: Election Fraud. <br><br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: their cluelessness

Postby Dreams End » Fri Aug 26, 2005 2:26 pm

First off, I'm the one who had the "hijacked background". I since figured out what happened. It's the last thing to load on the page, and my connection was just really slow. But the interesting part was the synchronicity of that happening for the first and only time, right as I was reading a comment about the background. Anyway, it wasn't a scary incident. I just thought it was kinda cool. In fact, my "synchonicity stories" I've posted always have an affirming quality to them...not scary. It's like the universe saying, "Hey, hang in there...you're on the right track." See the thread on synchronicity stories for more examples.<br><br>But that's not your point. And your point is actually a good one.<br><br>I'll start by saying, though, that one reason I'm here...especially as it concerns RA kinda stuff is that my wife is DID and that this condition came from abuse. We've no evidence that it was anything other than old fashioned physical and sexual abuse from a family member or members (not that that itself is real comforting) but she has no memories really, of the abuse itself. Not trusting hypnosis, she's not going to go and yank them out of her subconscious, so it's a slow process and I kinda gather this information behind the scenes. We rarely talk about that aspect of things as I don't want to freak her out or risk "implanting" memories (though I don't think that's as easy to do as the FMSF would have us think. ) As a side note, she was reading Sinister Forces (probably not a good idea anyway) and came across the name of a General involved in the OSS (precursor to the CIA) and said, "Oh, he lived across from us when we lived in Rome." Shit. Turned out, whoever the General across the street was, it was not the guy from that book, who died before she was born. Whew.<br><br>But let us imagine, to stay on this theme a bit, that we are counselors at a sexual abuse agency of some kind, or are therapists. We help people recover from these events in their lives, but we don't take any social action, really, as our training suggests these things happen to individuals within individual families...and don't usually involve strangers and certainly not the entire nearby Masonic lodge or whatever.<br><br>Would we not, perhaps, take some additional actions, if we found that sometimes such abuse is used by larger groups or even by the government? And would we not risk harm if we were ignorant of this reality when a client turned up telling us these stories, by disbelieving her or attempting to rid her of her "delusions"? So, for this topic anyway, it's not about inducing fear, but opening up to a reality that may be critical to understand. But it's still fucking scary.<br><br>This is my analogy, then. While I think your concerns about "new age" groups being utilized to promote a sort of quietism or disengagement in effective political struggle is legitimate, I don't think that can be the whole story. Just go back to Qutb's thread about Sarfatti: <!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://p216.ezboard.com/frigorousintuitionfrm10.showMessage?topicID=517.topic">p216.ezboard.com/frigorou...=517.topic</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br>Look at the elaborate networks and foundations and the connections to the military industrial complex in just this one article. It's just way to complicated, in my view, just to be a plot to get people away from their local union halls, or whatever. There's something else up. What that is, exactly, I'm not sure, as this sort of thing seems to have been going on a long time without much result that I can discern, but, without knowing the goal, I can't really say if it's effective or not. (I'm going to start another thread later to invite people to speculate in an informed way as to what the hell all this is about.) The fact that there is clear involvement of Nazi types further reinforces my belief that there is something important going on here.<br><br>Now, if these forces that these guys are messing with are real and are being harnessed in some way for evil ends, that would be important to know. A purely materialistic interpretation of events won't really get you where you need to go. <br><br>But even if these forces aren't real, there's still something going on here under the surface...important in the sense that, if we don't really understand it, our actions may not be that effective or may even be playing into their hands. <br><br>Let me give you an example. I'm going to be really mean and actually name an organization that I have no evidence about, because it's important to the story. I apologize for that, and add the caveat that I don't have any definitive proof that the organization, Global Exchange, is somehow a psyop deal. I'm sincere in that apology, but I need to tell the story to make the point.<br><br>I've made several trips with a small UN NGO to Mexico for election monitoring activities, and once to visit with Marcos and the Zapatista's. (An image from my life...three in the morning sleeping just outside the jungle in a little village called La Realidad, I awake to see that the clouds have parted and the Comet Hyakutake is gorgeously stretched out in the heavens above. )<br><br>In these visits, we would often run across activists from Global Exchange. Always young women and they seemed always to have the same sort of earnest but rather glassy eyed affect. There was actually some suspicion of them by local activists in Chiapas, but I don't remember why...except maybe they just seem to show up at the right place and time a lot. Too well funded...something like that. Anyway, my friend and I started calling types such as this: Global Girls (so much for p.c.). It was sort of tongue in cheek, though we did have some genuine concerns about them. Some or our work was kind of sensitive and we did need to be security conscious. <br><br>I'd never heard of MKULTRA or Bluebird or any of that. One evening, we had dinner with a friend of ours...an American priest serving in Chiapas with Bishop Ruiz. We brought up our little "Global Girl" phrase and when we explained it to him, he very seriously began to talk about a friend of his who was a psychiatrist. This friend had starting running across so many cases of women who were uncovering memories of being abused on military bases and programmed to do various things, that he decided to write a book about it. (I don't remember the psychiatrist's name, nor do I know if he released the book.) <br><br>This was an eye opening experience for me. But it also suggested that I needed to adjust my understanding of how politics works a bit. And realize that this stuff goes deeper and gets weirder than I had imagined. <br><br>Now, does it really change your activism if you assume that some folks who get involved are little Manchurian candidates? I don't know, but to me, it was sort of like learning about Cointelpro and how that operates among activist groups.<br><br>Let's give another example that is purely hypothetical. Let's assume (and I don't really, but as an example) that the appearance of more contrails in the sky really is a result of aerial spraying by the government for some purpose. Let's go further and assume that part of the purpose is to seed various compounds in the air that allow people's minds to be more easily influenced and controlled. (I'm thinking of the Aquino Mindwar idea from another thread, though he only hinted at this possibility.) Well, if people are under the influence of this sort of thing, that would be important to know in order to take action. How would the action be different? Again, I don't know...and it doesn't suggest you have to stop the activities you engaged in before you knew this fact, but it does deepen your understanding of the challenge ahead.<br><br>Well, getting off the hypothetical "chemtrails" (great idea for data dump, by the way...is it a silly concern or is there something to it? I'm agnostic on that one, but I do resent how the trails clutter up the sky so often now, and they really do spread out and seem to settle toward the ground.). Your concern about the effect of RI is understandable. But FROM RI, I've learned about an agenda to do what you are worried about on a much larger scale. I think that part of the agenda is to keep the populace scared, confused and maybe even "programmed" in a sense. There were probably many agenda's for 9/11, for example. (Someone once said the CIA has a second reason for everything they do.) And it fucking worked, because my own wife's mental deterioration began on Sept. 11, 2001. It scared us. For those without background knowledge, it simply created a fear that could be exploited to fight the evil "terrorists", but for those with "eyes to see" it said something else: "We are really powerful and you have no chance against us. Look what we can do. Look how blatant this is. Look how no one else can see the obvious. "<br><br> I don't think we become less empowered by digging around 9/11, even though it does suggest that there is a very scary, sinister network out there and that they are really hard to get at directly. Still, I think I have a much more realistic idea of the way the world works (is run?) than I did a few years ago. <br><br>Now suppose, just SUPPOSE, for a minute, that these forces these elites seem to be working with are real. By the way, this is, as far as I can tell, really the heart of what RI is about, so if we aren't at least open to that idea, we won't be satisfied with our experience here. I think it is important to understand that as well. To understand that there are other levels of reality at work, perhaps. That it's not just about "capital" but it's also about power and that power has an allure and a functionality that goes beyond the material. <br><br>If this is true, we ignore this at our peril. If it's not true, we waste our time with such speculation and your concern turns out to be 100% correct. <br><br>Great discussion starter. I look forward to other comments. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Occult Believers More Susceptible to Fear-Control?

Postby ZeroHaven » Fri Aug 26, 2005 2:48 pm

Occult is such a broad category, like Science, so it's hard to know what exactly you mean. It's easy to say I'd fear being kidnapped for a satanic ritual, but I'm totally not afraid of a psychic attack.<br><br>This question is somewhat loaded anyway, because it depends on what type of believers you're talking about.<br><br>The ones who faithfully believe the stories but have no significant knowledge about it will probably be afraid. The ones that actually learn about it will also have a store of defenses and not be afraid.<br><br>Using ghosts as an example.. lots of people believe in ghosts and are afraid of them. Then there's the groups of ghost hunters that make every attempt to record them, and intentionally go to haunted houses and graveyards with no fear. <p><!--EZCODE IMAGE START--><img src="http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a239/ZeroHaven/tinhat.gif"/><!--EZCODE IMAGE END--></p><i></i>
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Re: Occult Believers More Susceptible to Fear-Control?

Postby Sokolova » Fri Aug 26, 2005 2:49 pm

Proldic, like you I think I sense a kind of danger in what we do here. The zeitgeist here is pretty nebulous and hard to define. It's entirely liminal and the Trickster reigns. This is territory that, looking-glass-like, can turn right back under your feet without you realising and take you right away from everything you think you are aiming for. We need to find the truth, but if the aim is to terrify us into submission, then yes we are playing the game by finding things to scare us. So we need to be sure we aren't making our own Halloween masks here and doing these guys' work for them. <br><br>That's why the 'pursuit' of 'ritual abuse' strikes me as risky and dubious in many ways. It's as high stakes as it gets. If the world <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>is </em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END-->in the grip of a massive satanic conspiracy then we are brave crusaders. But what if it isn't? What are we then? What are we finding? The truth? or some distorted image of the truth? Random dots joined by our need to see patterns in chaos? Are we chasing demons or <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>making</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> them out of silly delusional human beings that couldn't scare us if we didn't somehow want or need them to? <br><br>I don't know. Does anyone? Conspiracies happen. Weird stuff happens. Yes it does. But schizophrenia happens; mental confusion happens; hysteria happens; coincidences happen too. And if we forget that then I think we do become a part of the problem we think we are fighting; just as dumb as the people who listen to Fox News, only differing in our chosen delusions. <br><br>Proldic you ask has anyone ever been more grounded after experiencing marginal stuff? <br><br>I have to tell you, I don't think many have. As I see it the weird when it visits often takes reason away with it. The usual thing is to trade skepticism for gullibility (I know, I was hit that way for a while) and people who have seen the weird seem to frequently end up either believing everything and becoming mad or denying it all and becoming fools.<br><br>If it helps, I think there are more people here who seem to have avoided that than I have ever met anywhere else in a lot of years of searching. There are a lot of genuinely smart, genuinely open, questing caring people here. They aren't out to be scared by Halloween moments, or duped by fake 'revelations', or lured cultlike into any set of beliefs, sans boundaries or common sense. <br><br>And that's got to be good, whatever bad might be haunting the edges too.<br><br><br> Ellie <p></p><i></i>
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comments appreciated

Postby proldic » Fri Aug 26, 2005 3:14 pm

btw I was referring to my screen that's been "hijacked". And not my screen-saver, but my usually-blue opening screen before my desktop appears. The first thing that attracted me to this site was the collage. I'll look into it when I get the time. It's interesting, but considering what "mode" I've been in lately, ain't no thang. <p></p><i></i>
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Fear with understanding can lead to courage

Postby GDN01 » Fri Aug 26, 2005 3:54 pm

While I'm not sure this thread was written with me in mind - it certainly hit home since I posted at 2:30 a.m. that I was having a difficult time sleeping after reading some of the threads on screams in the night and the weird sightings and videos of flying human-like creatures. I then posted on the thread of "personal experiences of the weird" about my ghost taking my keys! <br><br>And i have said here more than once that I am scared, worried, by what I read here. But, I don't think the goal, for me anyway, is to stop being afraid. Fear and anger are healthy emotional responses which can be the impetus for action. Being courageous doesn't mean you aren't afraid, it means you act to confront, or stop, the sources of fear even though you are afraid. Anger in the face of injustice and abuse can be a good motivator for action, too.<br><br>And what I read here has given me the knowledge I need to be courageous, not paralyzed by fear. I've lived with fear a good portion of my life. I didn't understand what was happening to me and around me - but I experienced things that are truly frightening. I'm not looking for proof that these things happen, that RA happens. I know they do. But I have been looking for, and found, information that helps me cope with this reality. What I have read here helps me, it helps me to know that I'm not insane and imagining things. And it has made me take some of it more seriously so that I try harder to do something about it. <br><br>For example, I was truly freaked out by all the information showing up here in July about the possiility of a false-flag attack in our country involving nuclear weapons. I live near Houston and this area was named as a possible target. Following the threads on this caused a lot of anxiety for me because I believe this stuff happens. I believe 9/11 was just such an attack - that our govt. LIHOP/MIHOP. And I believe they need to scare us back into submission. But, I also found links to sites that provided information about preparing for such an event - how to survive a nuclear attack. And I did what I could, although I didn't believe it was enough, to prepare. And after reading the survival sites, I had more knowledge and began formulating a plan for me and my kids. In the update thread on Camp Casey, Sweejak posted information from a man, Capt. Eric May, and his Ghost Troops. (links <!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.ghosttroop.net/">here</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--> and <!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.spiritone.com/~pazuu/pow-mia/GhostTroopCaptMay.htm">here</a><!--EZCODE LINK END-->.<br>If this man has any credibility, which I can't guarantee, it seems that there was a plan for a false-flag attack in Houston on July 27th - and the attention May brought to this plan caused the plan to be aborted. We live in the information era. People can share knowledge in ways that was not possible before. And knowledge is power. What if May is right? The more this stuff can be exposed the safer we will be. And the better we can prepare ourselves to handle what happens. <br><br>I may still be afraid. But it helps to know that there are many people out there, and on this discussion board, trying to shed some light of truth and hope in this world of deceit and destruction. Like the tag-line of RI says - What we don't know can't hurt them. Do I believe everything that is posted here? No. But more often than not, it feels like we are putting together a jig-saw puzzle that has had many missing pieces - and the pieces are being found. Some may not belong to this puzzle. But some do. <p></p><i></i>
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Fear, courage and the rest

Postby rapt » Fri Aug 26, 2005 5:20 pm

Just today I scanned across a piece, in Rense probably, that shows how the dub is losing it, going nuts, paranoid. This is good news. He is screaming profanities at aides, cursing Cindy Sheehan behind her back, and acting altogether infantile. Good news.<br><br>A psychiatrist says it is typical behavior of an arrested alcoholic who hasn't been treated; there is speculation that the boy is hitting the bottle again. Why not - he can do whatever he wants. Good news.<br><br>Although Cheney and his gang have been in charge from the beginning, bad behavior from the boss makes the program that much harder to pull off. Somebody has to babysit the little terror and that can't come cheap to a gang that tolerates zero leaks. I feel a cloud of frustration, even desperation buildiing over Washington and something is gonna pop soon.<br><br>GDN01, don't let your fear drive you crazy; we all have to cope with this shit and we'd best do it together. My own coping mechanism is to accept that the world is changing in fundamental ways, at least for us spoiled Yankees, and that there is very little I can do to alter that fact. So I learn as much as I can and cope with it. Secretly, I am anticipating this change, whatever it turns out to be, with wild glee. Don't tell anyone I said so.<br><br>I have increasing faith that these quagmire guys are gonna drown in their own muck, although it will probably be with the help of a host of angels and not the democratic party. We can help by hollering about their crimes loudly and non-stop; the truth is their mortal enemy. <p></p><i></i>
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correction...

Postby rapt » Fri Aug 26, 2005 5:42 pm

My reference above should have been to Capitol Hill Blue and Truthseeker and to Peachtree Pam, who sneaked the whole piece into - rages on - while I was writing. Thanks for all the clarification. <p></p><i></i>
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context

Postby Avalon » Fri Aug 26, 2005 10:29 pm

I think it really helps to have a context to place much of the weird stuff in. When it's new it's scary, especially if you don't know any useful responses. After a while once you've experienced some of the aspects often enough, they lose the novelty, and you can be more comfortable witih them. Or sometimes you just have achieved enough in the way of information that you can figure out a constructive response.<br><br>I think about someone I met online who had little interest in the occult, was an atheist, and tended to go for a materialist explanation for the otherwise unexplained. She mentioned having the same dream for decades about an animal and a man associated with it. I suggested that she try to talk with them next time. She did, and years later she's not only having regular contact with them but is studying shamanism, and seems to be genuinely gifted in that field.<br><br>But it's hard to avoid the cultural condemnation that goes along with aspects of what is usually described as being occult. If you can't work with that enough to realize that some occult manifestations are not just benign but beneficial, you're doomed to stay in the stuck and angry end of the continuum. And that doesn't usually help anyone.<br><br><br><br><br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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Stuck and Angry

Postby RollickHooper » Sat Aug 27, 2005 12:28 am

And that would be me.<br>I spent so much time as a youth actively seeking occult experiences and not gettin' any (occult experiences I mean) that at some point I just said Right, Fine, Bollocks to you then.<br>Recently I reconnected with some old friends of mine and they invited me to a Lakota Sundance ceremony in North Dakota. I met and spoke with the local medicine man, we sang prayer songs together in a sweat lodge. People told me they saw ghosts, spirits, during the Night Dance but I didn't see anything.<br>I didn't see anything.<br>And I've said it before, if anything, I get a sense of being deliberately ignored, demons and angels alike saying, "Here he comes! Everybody be really quiet!" Bollocks.<br>It's funny--I'm thinking that as proldic was probably starting this thread I was wondering if Jeff Wells wasn't deliberately testing the limits of our credulity, with all this Flying Humanoids and Disembodied Screams nonsense. I don't like being the skeptical one, I want to live in a world where vampires fly and werewolves howl. Someone else said, Where's a Night Hag when you need one?--or something like that. Please, everyone/anyone: help me get my childlike sense of wonder back <p></p><i></i>
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fear and loathing perhaps?

Postby lilorphant » Sat Aug 27, 2005 1:33 am

RI is not a fearmongering sight, at least what it speaks to me is to making connections or at least verifying what I already know. That could be said about any website on any topic. People congregate to that which speaks to their heart. <br><br>As for my experiences, paranormal or otherwise, I am not led easily to simply believe, so I know where I am comfortable drawing the line. Part of the human condition is ugly, secret, and the heart of darkness resides in a putrid underbelly of human refuse. There are no saints or sinners,we are all to blame, for "this is who we are".<br><br>Is humanity a conspiracy? Perhaps it is easier for me to believe that we become attracted to like people, that we use each other for our own purposes, and dignify our actions with reasoning of our own liking. The President does no differently. Forever there have been those who represent the sinister, and have been upheld as model citizens while the reality was something very different. <br><br> Do I fear ramifications day to day? Moments slip by and occassionally I shiver at the thought that so many think the end is nigh, even if they don't articulate that distinct idea. My reckoning has more to do with being a candle holder. I can only persuade those I know to keep positive, keep going on, but beware of the traps that have been laid. I don't fear as much as desire that a correction will be seen in political landscape sooner rather than later, much as we see market corrections. I would prefer a correction to backlash, but there we have it. Will we in the end turn on each other? Or will we all simply sit down and picnic together? <p></p><i></i>
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