The silence is deafening.

[slimmouse]

Topic ; War of terror.<br><br> Just a quick indication of the kind of torture by stealth taking place in Gaza just now. Lest we forget, and lest we also perhaps consider Israels Gaza pullout to be anything less than consolidating a prison camp;<br><br> Strange how Messrs Blair and Bush have little to say about this in public huh ? The silence is literally deafening;<br><br> <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>Israel is deploying a terrifying new tactic against Palestinian civilians in the Gaza Strip by letting loose deafening "sound bombs" that cause widespread fear, induce miscarriages and traumatise children.<br>The removal of Jewish settlers from the Gaza Strip opened the way for the military to use air force jets to create dozens of sonic booms by breaking the sound barrier at low altitude, sending shockwaves across the territory, often at night. Palestinians liken the sound to an earthquake or huge bomb. They describe the effect as being hit by a wall of air that is painful on the ears, sometimes causing nosebleeds and "leaving you shaking inside".<br><br>The Palestinian health ministry says the sonic booms have led to miscarriages and heart problems. The United Nations has demanded an end to the tactic, saying it causes panic attacks in children. The shockwaves have also damaged buildings by cracking walls and smashing thousands of windows.<br><br>"I have never heard such a loud explosion. I thought it was right over the top of my building," said the owner, Tareq Dayyeh. "Sometimes you hear the rockets the Israelis fire but this was different. I felt like I was in the middle of a bomb. When I ran out the door I thought I might find the rest of the street was gone."<br><br>Over the past week, Israeli jets created 28 sonic booms by flying at high speed and low altitude over the Gaza Strip, sometimes as little as an hour apart through the night. During five days in late September, the air force caused 29 sonic booms....snip........<br><br> The military was forced to apologise after one sonic boom was unintentionally heard hundreds of kilometres inside Israel last week. Maariv newspaper described it as sounding "like a heavy bombardment. The noise that shook the Israeli skies was frightening. Thousands of citizens leapt in panic from their beds, and many of them placed worried calls to the police and the fire department. The Tel Aviv and central district police switchboards crashed."</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--></em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--><br><br> Full article;<br><br> <!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,2763,1607450,00.html">www.guardian.co.uk/israel...50,00.html</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br><br><br><br> <p></p><i></i>

[wintler]

<!--EZCODE EMOTICON START >: --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/mad.gif ALT=">:"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <br><br><br><br><br><br> <p></p><i></i>

[dbeach]

from Iraq to Afi to Israel the elites stick with their agenda of fear and war and divide / conquer CUZ it works.<br><br>BUT we are awake and it hurts..<br><br>Id' rather be AWAKE..thinking my lil area of resistance<br>is easily multiplied daily <p></p><i></i>

[slimmouse]

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Id' rather be AWAKE..thinking my lil area of resistance<br>is easily multiplied daily<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--> <br><br> Well, we might perhaps join these guys;<br><br> www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org. <p></p><i></i>

[anotherdrew]

OMG I had foolishly hoped this sort of thing wouldn't happen. I honestly don't see how this will end 'til the war mongers are all rounded up. But how can that happen? This sickens me, it's nothing but the lowest, meanest, cruelty. <p></p><i></i>

[Watchful Citizen]

Inflicting high stress physically. Sound and vibration impact the body physically just as sure as a kick in the head.<br><br>Their bringing Abu Ghraib to the civilians now. <p></p><i></i>

[anon]

In Palestine, if reports be true, it's been going on for decades . . . I think the Zionists did engage in massacre 1948 - here in USA we got the movie 'Exodus' which showed the heroic Jews fighting a noble fight against hateful Arabs. so on & so forth I would s'pose most here know the other side of the story, but maybe not. One source of info is 'ifamericansknew.org' i assume they are legit, anyway check them out <p></p><i></i>

[Qutb]

Collective punishment, mass torture. It makes my blood boil.<br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Their bringing Abu Ghraib to the civilians now.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br>I think there were mostly civilians in Abu Ghraib too, unfortunately. <p></p><i></i>

[michael meiring]

It seems Sharon has hoodwinked most people yet again, and led a 'march of biblical proportions into the promised west bank land.<br><br>Seems he has pulled a goebbals type manouvre in isolating persons of ethnicity in the gaza strip, in order to target them more strategically. <br><br>What would be the reaction of the 'international community' if say iraq or china was doing this to israeli citizens?<br><br>I would sit back and wait for sharons explanation of this, if you thought pancake and syrup explanations were hysterical, i bet this one if it comes beats it. <p></p><i></i>

[israelirealities]

there is a war going on, all the time. nobody was under the illusion that pulling back 8000 settlers will bring peace...Sharon and Bush are in general agreement, so it seems, with regards to plans for the region, which do not include peace (see, Iraq, an intentional chaos..). Settlers were, as it seems , just a little experiment in religious messainism, and now they are food for the psychiarists here. There is too much weapons here for peace to occur, too many economic incentives to keep the machine going. Its just going under...which I think is the actual masterplan the region. Get it so fucked up, anarchy, corruption, everyone against everyone, you know the regular excuse to keep on pounding more drugs, bombs so the oil is kept in Western hands. Actually, there is nothing to do about it, from the inside, that is. just to develop "dissociation" skills. <br>Yesterday, I visited the local museum, there was an arts celebraion, and while looking at one item, I raise my head, and there, two inches from my nose, I am looking at Omri Sharon. It was very traumatic. the entire lobby was filled with those "matrix looking" security agents, brrrrr.....i went outside and waited till he is gone, to come back into the museum. Scary stuff. these people have the aura of evil all over. You just feel they are not "leaders" but enemies of the flock they rule over. Sucking blood, money and the LIFE out of everyone.<br><br> <p></p><i></i>

[slimmouse]

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Get it so fucked up, anarchy, corruption, everyone against everyone, you know the regular excuse to keep on pounding more drugs, bombs so the oil is kept in Western hands. Actually, there is nothing to do about it, from the inside, that is. just to develop "dissociation" skills.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--> <br><br> My thoughts entirely IR. This is indeed the very deceptive, some might argue ingenious strand of the entire "Anti semite" meme, insofaras the World media and populus in general have so often been petrified of mentioning The ongoing and deliberately provocative barbarism of the 4th reichs colonial outpost - that is Israel, or the role of international banking in the mess that is todays world.<br><br> I suggested on a thread a while back exactly who benefits from allowing the vile racism of places like Stormfront to spew forth their filth ? Perhaps you might understand better where I was coming from now.<br><br> Consequently of course, all we usually ever hear of , is the latest Hamas attack, or the 'evil' that is Iran or Syria. The average American naturally recoils in disgust at all of this. And yet how many of your average flag totin Zionist sympathiser has the faintest idea of that which is contained within the lead post on this thread ? <br><br> And the benefits for the average Israeli ( not to mention the Arabs) ? None-what-so-fucking-ever. <br><br> Promised land indeed. Promised to and for whom exactly ? I would be very interested meanwhile in the thoughts of posters such as Dreams veritas end with regards to this thread. The silence thus far has been......well......<br> <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=slimmouse@rigorousintuition>slimmouse</A> at: 11/4/05 2:26 pm<br></i>

[israelirealities]

Just an addition, that local press does not believe the formal explanations to the noises IN Israel =as coming from those sonic booms above Gaza. Suggestions were that IDF is testing something else, perhaps off shore, at night, which created the "shocks" all over Israel. Meteorological Institute of ISrael refuted the official explanation of the IDF ( "sonic booms" spreading wider into ISrael). But we, the people, do not know which explanation is true. I didn't feel the shocks, so don't have first hand impression. <br>But the booms in <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>Gaza are</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> happening.<br>Slimmmouse, I am new to the sophisticated debates in this board about Meme's and who is behind what, especially with regards to antisemitism. I am still learning...but I hear you. <br>THe antisemitism spin has been damaging Israelis, and we are aware of it, but are also quite unable (again) to do anything about it. Whatever one says against the official version meets with more spins and projections having very little to do with the reality we experience here. <br>Now, the latest spin, is our government calling <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>US</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> entisemites if we challenge its infinite wisdom...I think that sums it up.<br>American liberals are another source of problem in that they project their problems and fears on Israel, and the heck with the actual ISraelis as far as they are concerned, as long as they feel good about themselves. <br>I have been astonished too many times at the audacity of even Jewish liberals (let alone the conservatives) who take the role of educating me on antisemitism, when I present myself as an Individual, namely refuse to become an icon of how an ISraeli should be, behave and experience. Everyone is entitled to bitch about the governemnt, but we do not have this privilege, even among so called progressives. Its interesting, for sure. It is an information war, and it has the characteristics of a war. <br><br><br> <p></p><i></i>

[michael meiring]

slimmouse<br><br><br>Quote<br>-------------------------------------------------<br>I suggested on a thread a while back exactly who benefits from allowing the vile racism of places like Stormfront to spew forth their filth <br><br>----------------------------------------------------<br><br>Funny you should mention this, iwas reading an intresting thread somewhere and it linked me to liberty forums, i think it was liberty, it was shocking the outright vilification of anything israeli or jewish. This was outright hatred, i read 4 posts and left.<br><br>The question is, this is so obvious hate filled racism, why do the authorities allow it to continue? i know the answer unfortunately.<br><br>Its so sad whats happening in that region, whose benefiting, certainly not the palastinian or israeli citizens.<br><br><br>Create enemies on both sides, throw in the religious fanatism of which both sides seem to have enough devout followers, and we have the quagmire down there. <p></p><i></i>

[slimmouse]

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Create enemies on both sides, throw in the religious fanatism of which both sides seem to have enough devout followers, and we have the quagmire down there.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br> Indeed. <br><br> But of course anyone who dare pick out the true wheat from the chaff when it comes to Makow, or Larouche or the Truthseeker is once again cast down with the dirty antisemites......<br><br> What say you Dreams veritas end ? Ive heard lots of warnings again and again from your type. The trouble is, I have yet to hear where exactly you stand <br><br> Perhaps that shouldnt, indeed doesnt surprise me . <br><br> A lurker might ask why ask such questions of an intellectual like DVE ? MY truth is, I <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>know</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--></em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> these people like the back of my hand.<br><br> <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=slimmouse@rigorousintuition>slimmouse</A> at: 11/4/05 7:18 pm<br></i>

[Gouda]

Slim n’ Meiring, <br><br>Why are you using the atrocities committed against the Palestinians, and <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>Non sequiturs</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> tied to Makow and LaRouche, to pick another fight with dreams veritas? That’s not cool. And why would you even want to rely on racist, sexist, homophobic intellectuals (although I would not put Makow in the intellectual category – and I hesitate to term any racist homophobe an intellectual) to prop up obvious arguments against Israeli governmental or political Zionist racism and oppression of the Palestinians? There are so many others you can better learn from. Of course we need to look deeply at the backgrounds of our sources because very dangerous shit is going on. By citing these guys you shoot yourself in the foot and give yourself mouth disease and it is a shame when this important issue really does need to be discussed intelligently, openly and honestly. <br><br>The whole atmosphere created between you and dreams veritas and proldic keeps people away from this subject and is not conducive to honest debate. <br><br>Why not lets choose a writer who is more credible. <br>How about this to spark a constructive debate: <!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.dissidentvoice.org/Oct05/Farber1007.htm">www.dissidentvoice.org/Oc...er1007.htm</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br>“The Left-Wing Gatekeepers of the American Anti-Israeli Occupation Movement” by Seth Farber<br><br>I’ll say right now that I am a dilettante on this issue, that I do have a good faith bias, and that I need to learn a hell of a lot more. I would love to hear a constructive (rather than deconstructive) polemic (if there needs to be a polemic) from Proldic and Veritas Dreams on the Farber article, for example. I already expect some disagreement, but I ain’t putting it out there as a chip on my shoulder. I want to develop understanding of the issues. Would be great to see everyone contributing to a more profound discussion on the complexities of race, religion, oppression, and history in Palestine/Israel. Ain’t going to happen when everyone is deliberately instigating retaliation. And no pass to those who like to get themselves continually antagonized. That’s what happens in Israel/Palestine - and people are dying from this angry, willful ignorance. <br><br>On edit: changed one "of" to "if". Makes the whole thing better. <br> <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=gouda@rigorousintuition>Gouda</A> at: 11/4/05 10:15 pm<br></i>